Talk:Post Installation Tips

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Suggestions

Removal: Local mail delivery

This section does not seem to fit with the rest of the article. Time 20:18, 5 December 2009 (EST)

I disagree, since there is no local mail delivery by default afaik. M l 21:15, 5 December 2009 (EST)

The entirety of this article, except for this section, deals with small, fluffy changes that require little involvement and next to no setup. This page should be kept this way to preserve its intention. Other pages, Common Applications and Lightweight Software, deal with broader lists of programs. This page risks becoming a gimped version of those already, shown by how a significant amount of sections simply link to another article. Time 21:53, 5 December 2009 (EST)

So because you need to do some setup, should not be used or listed? This is Arch, setting up things how one wants is what Arch is all about. Local mail delivery should be done after a fresh install anyways. This page is setup like it's suppose to, no need to remove things from here. And linking to other pages is done so not to repeat the same thing here. This page simply points out somethings that one should consider doing after a fresh install, some should be done without any consideration. -- M l 22:25, 5 December 2009 (EST)

I'm not suggesting this article should repeat another; my mention of that has more to do with the overall direction I think this article is heading, and how to avoid it. I also realize that this is Arch and people are expected to spend a considerable amount of time with configuration and such. However, this does not translate into making every page follow that scheme. See Beginners' Guide versus Official Arch Linux Install Guide. Adding to that, what is your idea of a post installation tip? Because tips are usually very shallow, 123. Time 22:35, 5 December 2009 (EST)

Ok, but again I see nothing wrong with the way this page is setup; more information the better is my view. I see nothing wrong with Beginners' Guide or Official Arch Linux Install Guide. Look up the definition of tip. -- M l 22:58, 5 December 2009 (EST)

Well, it's notorious how the rest of the entries don't match up to this section. More information is better, but there's a time and a place. This is done for the sake of organization. Indiscriminately filling up this, or another article under that pretense (not to imply that's what's happening here) doesn't make much sense. I mentioned those two high traffic pages to show how varying styles and approaches fit different articles to suit. As for fetching definitions; I'm sure you and me both know what it means in this context. Those articles; Local Mail Delivery with Postfix, MSMTP, etc. don't fit into tips. I'd call them full-featured. Time 23:14, 5 December 2009 (EST)

Having a mail system setup would be by some considered necessary. To be able to detect and prevent problems a mail setup can be helpful. Though this page is generic, I think mail system still falls under the description of Post Installation Tips (i.e. that most users might like to use). It does, however, seem to fit in an odd way because this page's overall contents are quick tips for new users.

--Gen2ly 00:06, 6 December 2009 (EST)

Like Gen2ly explained, this is my reasoning for adding Post Installation Tips#Local mail delivery to Post Installation Tips. I still think it belongs here.

-- M l 00:22, 6 December 2009 (EST)

I agree with both of you that it is passable as a desired feature after installation. In spite of that, I see that the Beginners' Guide Appendix#Tweaks/Finishing touches would be interchangeable (in terms of purpose and general topic) with this article if it weren't for this page's focus on small tips. They both center on enabling common, if not crucial applications that are normally expected to be present. But given their difference in scope and format, wouldn't it make more sense to offload that mention over there and leave this article's consistency intact? Another trait they share is their exposure; both Post Installation Tips and Beginners' Guide Appendix are linked from the front page. It makes sense to establish some continue the differentiation between the two, even more so when this results in less dissonance within the articles. Time 00:57, 6 December 2009 (EST)

Duplication of effort (merge?)

With respect to the discussion above (#Removal: Local mail delivery), an interesting point is raised. Both this page and the Beginners' Guide Appendix tend to reproduce a lot of information that is covered in-detail elsewhere (admittedly, the latter suffers from this problem more than the former) and seemingly serve the same audience. Additionally, the distinction between pages is unclear -- what qualifies as a "tip"? Arguably, many entries from the Beginners' Guide Appendix would fit just as well in this article.

I propose a merge of both articles into a single "recommended reading"/appendix/index-like page that contains a minimal description of a problem/feature/application along with related wiki links. In cases where no related wiki article exists, one should be created (e.g. the tip about colored man pages could be moved to a man article, along with a description of what man pages are, etc. for new users) (e.g. the Beginners' Guide Appendix#File and directory explanation section could easily be moved to a Filesystem Hierarchy Standard article).

Such a merge would greatly improve maintainability, in my opinion, at a minimal cost.

-- pointone 00:16, 11 December 2009 (EST)

I agree, though it will be quite an effort. Both pages right now contain a good deal of information, and parts of them both only apply to a small subset of users so a good amount of weeding will need to be done. As for Tips... yeah, Recommendations is a better descriptor. I'll be glad to help, if we do this though, I'd recommend we sandbox it, to prevent any conflict/complication getting in the way and allow us to edit it at our leisure.

--Gen2ly 05:51, 11 December 2009 (EST)

Agree with the merge. Before we achieve consensus on Filesystem Hierarchy Standard and branch the new article, what's the status on common non-words? Filesystem or file-system? Initscripts or init-scripts? etc. Time 22:05, 11 December 2009 (EST)

In agreement with the FHS project's home page, I suggest "Filesystem". In general, I would avoid hyphens in page titles unless necessary. -- pointone 12:48, 15 December 2009 (EST)

Filesystem Hierarchy Standard still needs some work before prime time -- some sections are just placeholders. pwd 00:08, 16 December 2009 (EST)

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Any suggestions for a suitable title for the combined article? My ideas: Recommended Reading, Helpful Articles, General Tips/Arch Tips/Configuration Tips (as opposed to Gnome Tips or pacman Tips)

-- pointone 12:48, 15 December 2009 (EST)

Post Installation Recommendations would be the wording I was originally thinking would fit most aptly. However, I'm beginning to think these aren't really recommendations but more like suggestions, so I'm thinking Post Installation Tips describes best what is the goal is here?!

--Gen2ly 15:01, 15 December 2009 (EST)

I would avoid Recommended and Helpful as prefixes because these imply that others aren't; ommit Arch becuase it's the Arch wiki; leave out Post Installation since it isn't accurate enough; and I also don't like Tips as part of a title since it always sounds self-demeaning. So that leaves General Recommendations. pwd 18:36, 15 December 2009 (EST)

Hmmm, no thoughts about sandboxing this?

--Gen2ly 07:35, 16 December 2009 (EST)

I agree. I was hoping we could agree on a name for a new article first and build there, leaving the existing articles alone until complete. General Recommendations sounds alright to me; any objections or better suggestions?

-- pointone 00:52, 19 December 2009 (EST)