https://wiki.archlinux.org/api.php?action=feedcontributions&user=Margali&feedformat=atomArchWiki - User contributions [en]2024-03-19T03:02:24ZUser contributionsMediaWiki 1.41.0https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Talk:Intel_graphics&diff=763067Talk:Intel graphics2023-01-04T02:08:54Z<p>Margali: /* Tips on identifying hardware? */ Wanted: simple route map!</p>
<hr />
<div>== [drm:intel_pipe_update_start [i915]] *ERROR* Potential atomic update failure on pipe A ==<br />
<br />
Maybe the solution to get rid of the above dmesg log spamming could be mentioned? You just add `options i915 enable_psr=0` to the file `/etc/modprobe.d/i915.conf`. [[User:Bjourne|Bjourne]] ([[User talk:Bjourne|talk]]) 17:04, 19 August 2016 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Backlight is not adjustable after trying various acpi_osi values ==<br />
<br />
[http://unix.stackexchange.com/q/315178/3645 Full details] on Stack Exchange.<br />
<br />
{{unsigned|20:04, 8 October 2016|L0b0}}<br />
<br />
== DRI3 confusion ==<br />
<br />
I've seen in the forum people ask from time to time how to enable DRI3 on their system.<br />
<br />
As stated many times there, DRI3 should be on for most (if not all) of them. But people keep telling them to check<br />
<br />
cat /var/log/Xorg.0.log | grep DRI<br />
<br />
which shows up this message:<br />
<br />
GLX: Initialized DRI2 GL provider for screen 0<br />
<br />
which is *not accurate*.<br />
<br />
If you run this command instead:<br />
<br />
LC_ALL=C LIBGL_DEBUG=verbose glxinfo | grep DRI<br />
<br />
you might stump with this other message:<br />
<br />
libGL: Using DRI3 for screen 0<br />
<br />
which proves you are using DRI3 even though X11 doesn't reply with the correct information.<br />
<br />
The command was adapted from [https://lists.x.org/archives/xorg-devel/2014-June/042735.html xorg mailing list].<br />
<br />
So, it think adding this information in the page could be of major interest. What do you think?<br />
<br />
[[User:Franzrogar|Franzrogar]] ([[User talk:Franzrogar|talk]]) 07:01, 4 November 2016 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Guide for screen scaling with external displays via xrandr? ==<br />
<br />
I tried to find instructions for scaling the display resolution without stretching on this wiki page, but the section only says that it's not implemented in the Intel drivers yet. However, [https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/220387/how-to-set-scaling-mode-for-external-displays-on-intel-gpu this stackexchange thread] has a workaround using an xrandr transform matrix. Should this be added to the wiki page?<br />
<br />
[[User:Ibara|Ibara]] ([[User talk:Ibara|talk]]) 12:35, 22 May 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Screen flickering ==<br />
Intel's power saving features might lead to flickering on some devices visible in the desktop, login manager and even in the konsole. Add the kernel parameter {{ic|1=intel_idle.max_cstate=1}} and reboot.<br />
<br />
{{unsigned|20:57, 3 November 2020|R41n3r}}<br />
<br />
== Driver issues on 11th Gen CPU ==<br />
<br />
I've just left a comment in [[Talk:Dell_XPS_13_(9310)#Video drivers]] about issues with modesetting drivers on the new XPS 13. The issue appears when using modesetting drivers and is resolved when installing the xf86-video-intel package, which seems to go against most of the advice in this Wiki and the internet at large. The issue is not simple to describe, so I will just copy-paste what I've written on the other page: "some weird jittery behaviour in the rendering of text. For example, when attempting to type 'wiki.archlinux.org' in a browser address field the text rendering would suddenly jump back by 1/2 strokes (I'm typing 'ch', the 'c' appears shortly but the screen immediately refreshes to only show 'wiki.a') and refuse to update for maybe a second. It would then catch up if I kept typing."<br />
Is this a known issue with 11th Gen Intel CPUs? The model I have has an i7-1165G7, which includes the new Intel Iris Xe Graphics.<br />
[[User:Avernan|Avernan]] ([[User talk:Avernan|talk]]) 17:16, 30 December 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
: I have an 11th Gen CPU (i7-1165G7), and the integrated GPU is {{ic|Intel TigerLake-LP GT2 [Iris Xe Graphics]}} according to neofetch. I was experiencing mouse flickering and lots of screen tearing with the modesetting driver, and this was only able to be resolved by installing x86-video-intel. The wiki page should be updated to mention this, but I'm not sure the best way to go about it. [[User:Makeworld|Makeworld]] ([[User talk:Makeworld|talk]]) 02:35, 15 July 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::That's pretty bad. Perhaps there could be a bulleted list within the Note, of issues with the modesetting driver. For those new items, we would prefer to have some sort of bug report to link to (rather than "original reports" without external recognition). -- [[User:CodingKoopa|CodingKoopa]] ([[User talk:CodingKoopa|talk]]) 04:16, 15 July 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::: Additionally I noticed a large reduction in CPU frequency when video conferencing (Google Meet in Chromium), which means better powersaving and no fans spinning up. And yeah, my concern was that I have nowhere to link to to back up my claim of issues. Not sure where to file a bug report, but I'm also not sure how appropriate it would even be. Obviously this is buggy behaviour from modesetting, but it feels a bit unfair to complain about modesetting when there are Intel drivers right there that work and solve the problem. [[User:Makeworld|Makeworld]] ([[User talk:Makeworld|talk]]) 16:16, 15 July 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::I think it's totally fair, actually. modesetting represents a modern take on Xorg drivers: When it comes to hardware acceleration, rather than implementing the Xorg primitives for each GPU, modesetting uses the [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X.Org_Server#Glamor GLAMOR] backend, which implements the Xorg primitives as OpenGL calls, and then defers to the vendor-specific GPU driver (generally just Mesa). This is considered a better architecture, and is the reason why it's encouraged. Rather than considering it a "fallback" (as the page currently implies), see it as an alternative which leverages your better-maintained 3D stack.<br />
::::In other words, modesetting is intended to be well-supported, and the people behind it actually would care to hear about problems that occur with it. With all of that said, I'm not really sure how the bug report process for it goes. It might be on the FreeDesktop GitLab instance that issues are opened. -- [[User:CodingKoopa|CodingKoopa]] ([[User talk:CodingKoopa|talk]]) 21:29, 15 July 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::: Ah, I didn't realize that's how modesetting worked, thanks. I've filed [https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/xorg/xserver/-/issues/1364 this issue] on the xserver repo as that seems to be the appropriate place. I'm not sure exactly how the wiki Note should be edited to take all these different reports and views into account, are you able to do it now that there's a bug report? If not maybe I can come back to this in a day or two. Thanks. [[User:Makeworld|Makeworld]] ([[User talk:Makeworld|talk]]) 00:16, 17 July 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::::Yeah, I think that's enough. Let's keep this section open though, and see how the issue progresses.<br />
::::::For the source link in that issue, you should change it to https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Talk:Intel_graphics&oldid=737996 so that it will continue to work once this section has been closed and deleted. Thanks, [[User:CodingKoopa|CodingKoopa]] ([[User talk:CodingKoopa|talk]]) 02:31, 17 July 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Washed colors on 7th gen CPU ==<br />
<br />
I found out that my iGPU shows washed colors randomly, but I managed to fix it by adding intel_agp and i915 modules into mkinitcpio.conf and rebuilding the initramfs after that. <br />
<br />
[[User:Myghi63|Paulo Marcos]] 11:37, 24 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Potential performance gains via Observation Architecture ==<br />
<br />
[https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/u7zxa0/psa_for_intel_tiger_lake_dynamic_tuning_laptops/ This /r/linux thread] claims the following:<br />
: Dynamic Tuning is not enabled in most distros due to late Intel KMS. Running "sudo sysctl dev.i915.pref_stream_paranoid=0" drastically improves game performance and clock management on relevant processors, specifically Tiger Lake.<br />
{{ic|dev.i915.perf_stream_paranoid}} was introduced in [https://patchwork.kernel.org/project/dri-devel/patch/20161020211910.4723-8-robert@sixbynine.org/ this Kernel commit], and its usage was [https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/mesa/mesa/-/commit/2001a80d4a81f2e8194b29cca301dd1b27be9acb introduced to Mesa in this commmit]. It now lives in [https://github.com/torvalds/linux/blob/v5.17/drivers/gpu/drm/i915/i915_perf.c linux/drivers/gpu/drm/i915/i915_perf.c]. This setting controls whether "non-root users [are allowed] to access system wide OA counter metrics". OA refers to Intel's [https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Intel-HSW-Observation-Arch Observation Architecture], and is [https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Intel-Mesa-OA-Perf-Counters used to provide performance info to applications].<br><br />
As I understand, the {{ic|perf_stream_paranoid}} family of options all may make a difference in whether applications are able to receive certain performance metrics. This is read-only information, and yet some users are reporting dramatic performance increases. What's more is that it's unclear whether early KMS fixes the issue; [https://forum.manjaro.org/t/cant-change-dev-i915-perf-stream-paranoid-to-0/66339/10 this Manjaro forum post] says it does, but the Reddit OP [https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/u7zxa0/comment/i5ia8go/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3 says otherwise]. Cheers, [[User:CodingKoopa|CodingKoopa]] ([[User talk:CodingKoopa|talk]]) 2022-04-21T02:38:34<br />
<br />
: I don't have the exact hardware to benchmark this, but on my (relatively old now) Skylake processor, I did not feel any difference. Neither from the perf_stream sysctl knob nor from early KMS. --[[User:Erus Iluvatar|Erus Iluvatar]] ([[User talk:Erus Iluvatar|talk]]) 06:55, 21 April 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::[https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Intel-HSW-Observation-Arch Phoronix says that it's Haswell and newer], so your Skylake should just be fine. It's possible that the sysctl option makes no difference (that is, because of the permission to use the performance counter being present anyways), either because of your setup using Early KMS, or because of some Arch default. I think that a good test would be to disable Early KMS (e.g. take the i915 module out of the initrd), and run a program that triggers the {{ic|1=Performance support disabled, consider sysctl dev.i915.perf_stream_paranoid=0}} [https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/mesa/mesa/-/blob/68e8f00c441dc38f5a18a4aa5a30916c53fc986f/src/intel/vulkan/anv_perf.c#L60-L61 codepath]. I'm under the impression that affected applications are Vulkan programs which use the [https://www.khronos.org/registry/vulkan/specs/1.3-extensions/man/html/VK_KHR_performance_query.html VK_KHR_performance_query extension] [https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/mesa/mesa/-/merge_requests/2775]. That said, I'm not sure how to reliably pick out affected programs, seeing as people are reporting this with Wine games, but DXVK does not use this extension. Cheers, [[User:CodingKoopa|CodingKoopa]] ([[User talk:CodingKoopa|talk]]) 17:05, 21 April 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::: I'll try to find some time to benchmark this on the weekend, I probably have some random game on Steam that both uses Vulkan and runs through Wine. --[[User:Erus Iluvatar|Erus Iluvatar]] ([[User talk:Erus Iluvatar|talk]]) 18:35, 21 April 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== TGL/RKL GuC Submission ==<br />
<br />
Hi, I think the table should be called into question for GuC submission being only supported from ADL forward. I have an i5 11400 and it will enable the GuC submission with SLPC and RC.<br />
<br />
https://imgur.com/a/9DB1Xhf<br />
<br />
After trying to set 3, it actually worked. Full GuC submission and HuC auth.<br />
<br />
https://imgur.com/a/WIgYqXI<br />
<br />
{{unsigned|09:48, 24 July 2022|Gmazzo}}<br />
<br />
:Hi, I made that table. Firstly, are you sure that your CPU is an [https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/212270/intel-core-i511400-processor-12m-cache-up-to-4-40-ghz.html i5-11400] and not an [https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/213805/intel-core-i511400h-processor-12m-cache-up-to-4-50-ghz.html i5-11400H]? Your logs indicate that the Tiger Lake firmware is being loaded, whose microarchitecture the i5-11400H corresponds with (specifically Tiger Lake-H). This is as opposed as opposed to the Rocket Lake firmwares, which I would expect the i5-11400 to load. Both are 11th generation CPUs which use Gen12 GPUs, so it shouldn't matter anyways, but I want to make sure I understand, as there ''are'' RKL firmware binaries [https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/firmware/linux-firmware.git/tree/i915 in linux-firmware].<br />
:Tiger Lake and Rocket Lake are both in the area where they ship Gen12 GPUs, but they are not supposed to support GUC submission and power management according to [https://01.org/linuxgraphics/downloads/firmware Intel's own chart]. This is still supported [https://github.com/torvalds/linux/blob/v5.18/drivers/gpu/drm/i915/gt/uc/intel_uc.c#L32-L36 by the source code handling the defaults], too. Yet, what you are experiencing seems to be GuC submission without HuC firmware loading (equivalent to {{ic|1=i915.enable_guc=1}}) ''by default'', which I didn't think is ever the case. Fortunately, at least TGL/RKL supporting HuC authentication is not a revelation, as that is supported by the Intel docs.<br />
:So, yeah, it does sound like the table is wrong about your CPU's default behavior. From what I understand about what the kernel is doing:<br />
:* GuC and HuC are uninitialized. [https://github.com/torvalds/linux/blob/v5.18/drivers/gpu/drm/i915/gt/uc/intel_uc_fw.h#L22-L44]<br />
:* The defaults laid out in the table are set, if {{ic|enable_guc}} is unset.<br />
:* '''Regardless of the settings''', {{ic|intel_uc_init_early}} in intel_uc.c calls {{ic|intel_guc_init_early()}} and {{ic|intel_huc_init_early()}}, each of which does minimal initialization to determine if the hardware is supported.<br />
:* Throughout intel_uc.c, {{ic|intel_uc_supports_guc()}} is called to see if GuC is supported.<br />
:** The definition for {{ic|intel_uc_supports_guc()}} is generated by a macro in [https://github.com/torvalds/linux/blob/v5.18/drivers/gpu/drm/i915/gt/uc/intel_uc.h#L74-L83 intel_uc.h] (annoying when I can't just grep for it :p). This defers to {{ic|intel_guc_is_supported()}}.<br />
:** {{ic|intel_uc_fw_is_supported()}} in [https://github.com/torvalds/linux/blob/70664fc10c0d722ec79d746d8ac1db8546c94114/drivers/gpu/drm/i915/gt/uc/intel_uc_fw.h#L203 intel_guc_fw.h] checks the result of the minimal initialization to see if it was successful (and therefore possible to do further initialization if desired).<br />
:* Also in intel_uc.c, {{ic|intel_uc_supports_guc_submission()}} is called to see if GuC submission is supported.<br />
:** The definition for {{ic|intel_uc_supports_guc_submission()}} is also generated by a macro which defers to {{ic|intel_guc_submission_is_supported()}}.<br />
:** {{ic|intel_guc_submission_is_supported()}} in [https://github.com/torvalds/linux/blob/v5.18/drivers/gpu/drm/i915/gt/uc/intel_guc_submission.h intel_guc_submission.h] checks an internal variable set by [https://github.com/torvalds/linux/blob/v5.18/drivers/gpu/drm/i915/gt/uc/intel_guc_submission.c#L3805-L3810 __guc_submission_supported()]. The requirements are that GuC is supported, and that the GPU must be '''Gen11 or newer''' (not Gen12 or newer!)<br />
:*Only now is the firmware actually loaded. From intel_guc.c: <br />
::{{bc|<nowiki>* Enabling the GuC is not mandatory and therefore the firmware is only loaded<br />
* if at least one of the operations is selected.</nowiki>}}<br />
:That __guc_submission_supported implementation conflicts with Intel's documentation: GuC submission is seemingly available on some Gen11 GPUs.<br />
:Now, GuC submission being ''possible'' is one story, but it being enabled by ''default'' is another. At the moment, I do not see why this would be the case. I would be curious to see what is logged on an affected TGL/RKL system with the {{ic|drm_dbg}} messages enabled (recompiling the kernel with different settings is probably necessary. <br />
:-- Thanks, [[User:CodingKoopa|CodingKoopa]] ([[User talk:CodingKoopa|talk]]) 19:27, 24 July 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:: Hi, Guc submission seems to be possible on my system as well by setting {{ic|1=options i915 enable_guc=3}}:<br />
<br />
$ uname -r<br />
5.19.12-arch1-1<br />
<br />
$ cat /proc/cpuinfo<br />
model name : 11th Gen Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-1165G7 @ 2.80GHz<br />
<br />
$ lspci -k<br />
00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation TigerLake-LP GT2 [Iris Xe Graphics] (rev 01)<br />
DeviceName: Onboard - Video<br />
Subsystem: Micro-Star International Co., Ltd. [MSI] Device 12e1<br />
<br />
{{hc|1=$ sudo dmesg {{!}} grep i915|2=<br />
[ 1.009923] i915 0000:00:02.0: [drm] VT-d active for gfx access<br />
[ 1.010006] i915 0000:00:02.0: vgaarb: deactivate vga console<br />
[ 1.010043] i915 0000:00:02.0: [drm] Transparent Hugepage mode 'huge=within_size'<br />
[ 1.018442] i915 0000:00:02.0: vgaarb: changed VGA decodes: olddecodes=io+mem,decodes=io+mem:owns=io+mem<br />
[ 1.020342] i915 0000:00:02.0: [drm] Finished loading DMC firmware i915/tgl_dmc_ver2_12.bin (v2.12)<br />
[ 1.157918] i915 0000:00:02.0: [drm] GuC firmware i915/tgl_guc_70.1.1.bin version 70.1<br />
[ 1.157921] i915 0000:00:02.0: [drm] HuC firmware i915/tgl_huc_7.9.3.bin version 7.9<br />
[ 1.161434] i915 0000:00:02.0: [drm] HuC authenticated<br />
[ 1.161777] i915 0000:00:02.0: [drm] GuC submission enabled<br />
[ 1.161778] i915 0000:00:02.0: [drm] GuC SLPC enabled<br />
[ 1.162428] i915 0000:00:02.0: [drm] GuC RC: enabled<br />
[ 1.165574] i915 0000:00:02.0: [drm] Protected Xe Path (PXP) protected content support initialized<br />
[ 1.167372] [drm] Initialized i915 1.6.0 20201103 for 0000:00:02.0 on minor 0<br />
[ 1.170411] fbcon: i915drmfb (fb0) is primary device<br />
[ 1.170414] i915 0000:00:02.0: [drm] fb0: i915drmfb frame buffer device<br />
[ 3.670049] mei_hdcp 0000:00:16.0-b638ab7e-94e2-4ea2-a552-d1c54b627f04: bound 0000:00:02.0 (ops i915_hdcp_component_ops [i915])<br />
[ 3.684363] mei_pxp 0000:00:16.0-fbf6fcf1-96cf-4e2e-a6a6-1bab8cbe36b1: bound 0000:00:02.0 (ops i915_pxp_tee_component_ops [i915])<br />
[ 4.070745] sof-audio-pci-intel-tgl 0000:00:1f.3: bound 0000:00:02.0 (ops i915_audio_component_bind_ops [i915])<br />
}}<br />
:: -- [[User:Cvlc|Cvlc]] ([[User talk:Cvlc|talk]]) 20:18, 30 September 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::Thanks for sharing! There are a few more things I am curious about:<br />
:::* What kernel version is this (e.g. {{ic|pacman -Qi linux}})? It might be necessary for me to know if I take it up with the Intel Linux folk.<br />
:::* What CPU is this? I can see that the Tiger Lake blob is getting loaded, but I am still curious to know the exact model.<br />
:::* What is the behavior if you boot without the {{ic|enable_guc}} kernel parameter?<br />
:::Finally, if you are able to do so, to get more messages from i915 you can try booting with the {{ic|1=dyndbg="module i915 +p"}} kernel parameter. This will enable [[General troubleshooting#Dynamic debugging|dynamic debugging]] for the Intel kernel module. -- [[User:CodingKoopa|CodingKoopa]] ([[User talk:CodingKoopa|talk]]) 21:36, 1 October 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:: I updated my previous post above with kernel / cpu details for clarity. If I boot without the {{ic|enable_guc}} kernel parameter, there is no huc/guc reference at all in either dmesg or journalctl, so default seems to be "all off". I don't see any difference in logs when booting with {{ic|1=dyndbg="module i915 +p"}}, but maybe I'm not reading from the right place..! Apparently some [https://www.phoronix.com/news/Intel-i915-Versioned-Firmware changes are being made], so the behavior might be different in the next kernel versions. By the way, is there any way to verify or see guc/huc in action (something like {{ic|intel_gpu_top}} but specific) ?<br />
::-- [[User:Cvlc|Cvlc]] ([[User talk:Cvlc|talk]]) 21:12, 2 October 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Tips on identifying hardware? ==<br />
<br />
It would be helpful to include either a link (if the information is elsewhere in the wiki) or information explaining how to determine which chip you have and how that relates to the various names seen on this page, PKGBUILDs etc. I've got integrated Intel graphics and a sticker on my machine says my i5 is 7th generation, but how does this relate to e.g. '<= Haswell' vs. '>= Broadwell' (as in the libva PKGBUILD), 'skylake' vs. other lakes, non-lakes etc.). I assume this more basic identification is somewhere on the wiki, but this is the page I landed on trying to find it. Or is this the Wikipedia page? From the description, I assume that will tell me about the differences, but not how to determine what I've got. --[[User:Margali|cfr]] ([[User talk:Margali|talk]]) 18:18, 1 November 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:My first guess is this would be covered by the Wikipedia link: the output of {{ic|lspci {{!}} grep -E "VGA{{!}}3D"}} can be compared with the table to obtain the necessary information. A variant of this command is listed at [[Xorg#Driver installation]]. --[[User:Erus Iluvatar|Erus Iluvatar]] ([[User talk:Erus Iluvatar|talk]]) 19:23, 1 November 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Some scrambled thoughts: I just came across [[Wikipedia:Intel Graphics Technology]] (as opposed to [[Wikipedia:List of Intel graphics processing units]]), which I wasn't previously aware of. This might help establish the relationship between the CPU platform (e.g. Haswell) and the GPU generation. What's left is to make the connection between CPU generation to CPU platform. In the earlier generations this is 1:1 (e.g. 4th Gen CPU -> Haswell -> Gen7.5 GPU), but in the later generations we do see more than one CPU platform in one CPU generation. (e.g. Tiger Lake and Rocket Lake are both 12th Gen CPUs). We could make a table of CPU generations, CPU platforms, and GPU generations, but you still need to be able to derive the CPU platform from the CPU model. The mappings of CPU models to platforms would be too great of a maintenance burden for us to take on. -- [[User:CodingKoopa|CodingKoopa]] ([[User talk:CodingKoopa|talk]]) 01:16, 2 November 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::I see no one has had more input. IMO having a table of generations and platforms is already duplicating what exists in Wikipedia (although it would be neater), so maybe we could either contribute there and hope the extra visibility will help with the maintenance on their side, or simply have a paragraph on our page to explain how to navigate between the different existing Wikipedia pages. --[[User:Erus Iluvatar|Erus Iluvatar]] ([[User talk:Erus Iluvatar|talk]]) 10:33, 10 November 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::Something explaining how to make use of the information linked would be fine. I don't want to suggest some terrible maintenance burden here. Even knowing that CPU generation and GPU generation could differ for integrated graphics would have helped as this was certainly not obvious to me. The sticker says 7th generation, but the Wikipedia table says 'Gen9p5'? Does that mean 9.5th generation? Is there such a thing? I'm still not sure how this relates the Haswell/Broadwell/other-wells. I'm also not really clear how many bits of graphics I might need to figure out packages for. Is vulkan something extra? Is it relevant? It's just very hard to determine a navigational path through such that I can be confident I've configured things correctly. And to think I got Intel integrated graphics because I thought it would be work-out-of-the-box easy! --[[User:Margali|cfr]] ([[User talk:Margali|talk]]) 02:08, 4 January 2023 (UTC)</div>Margalihttps://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Talk:Security&diff=761779Talk:Security2022-12-21T21:28:15Z<p>Margali: /* Sandboxing applications: add warning re. use of kernel.unprivileged_userns_clone? */ new section</p>
<hr />
<div>==Todo==<br />
*Update "Lockout user after three failed login attempts", file mentioned no longer contains those lines ? (relevant lines were moved to system-auth, see [https://github.com/archlinux/svntogit-packages/commit/7afa3fb3a9e74c27f4c2af85c8ff624123c830e1 these] [https://github.com/archlinux/svntogit-packages/commit/2d5af94ae55a5c98837ce9631f331ad2aad32bb3 two] commits)<br />
*descriptions/rationale for all the links to other articles (MAC)<br />
*base64 /dev/urandom | dd bs=1 count=10 2>/dev/null<br />
*use (enhanced?) ACL on partitions<br />
*[[Disk quota|quotas]]<br />
*limits/cgroups<br />
*sudo timeout<br />
*DNSSEC<br />
*[[Securely Wipe HDD]]<br />
*[[Using File Capabilities Instead Of Setuid]]<br />
*VNC, proxies, ssl, etc<br />
*rvim/rgvim<br />
*browser security (requestpolicy, noscript, sand-boxing browser)<br />
*PAX/<s>grsecurity</s><br />
*stack protector gcc flag: Put some text in the page indicationg Archlinux has it by default (See: [https://bugs.archlinux.org/task/18864 FS#18864])<br />
* run services as non-root (mention that Arch does this where possible by default - but it needs improvement via feature requests)<br />
* run services in clean namespaces<br />
* run services in chroots<br />
* mention issues with sudo (any X11 application can grab the password, and it is a large setuid binary with potential vulnerabilities)<br />
* describe password expiry policies (chage, passwd -X, etc.)<br />
--[[User:Thestinger|thestinger]] 18:09, 11 January 2011 (EST), --[[User:Det|Det]] ([[User talk:Det|talk]]) 11:35, 3 January 2013 (UTC),<br />
--[[User:Flu|Flu]] ([[User talk:Flu|talk]]) 13:49, 19 April 2013 (UTC)<br />
-- [[User:Ndt|Ndt]] ([[User talk:Ndt|talk]]) 22:45, 12 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
--[[User:Compwiztobe|Compwiztobe]] ([[User talk:Compwiztobe|talk]]) 06:15, 7 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== CentOS Wiki OS Protection Article ==<br />
<br />
Hello,<br />
<br />
This seems to be a good article to cross-reference or to use as a basis to pull in more content here. CC BY SA rights so I suspect it is compatible with the Arch Wiki. http://wiki.centos.org/HowTos/OS_Protection<br />
<br />
I am hoping to pull some content in myself, but I am by no means a security guy. I figured some wiser heads might be able to make better use of it than I or correct any mistakes I might make while attempting to contribute.<br />
<br />
Cheers,<br />
[[User:AdamT|AdamT]] ([[User talk:AdamT|talk]]) 22:29, 1 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Of course the information itself is not licensed/licenseable, however the way it is presented is, so you either study the original article and present the same information here in an original way, or you actually adapt some content from that article, but in that case the licence clearly states that you have to credit the original authors, and ''I guess'' you can do it by mentioning the original article in the Summary of your edits, and adding a link to [[Security#See also]].<br />
:Just as a clarification, I know that [[Help:Style#Hypertext metaphor]] states "If the upstream documentation for the subject of your article is well-written and maintained, prefer just writing Arch-specific adaptations and linking to the official documentation for general information", however in this case we can't talk about "upstream documentation", that's why the rule doesn't apply and duplication of information is allowed, being CentOS's and Arch's wikis on the "same level" with respect to the information provided.<br />
:-- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 02:33, 3 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:: Let's first compare the sections in the two articles and see how they relate:<br />
::* '''Modifying fstab''' -> [[Security#Partitions]].<br />
::* '''Package installs''' -> We have [[Security#Authenticating_packages]] and a note at the bottom of [[Security#Partitions]].<br />
::** We ''definitely'' should talk about [[Pacman#Package_security]] in more depth. That is, we should have a general overview of the function of [[Pacman-key]] and why it is important from a security perspective. [[Pacman-key]] mentions the function of the utility, but not its importance from a security perspective.<br />
::* '''Physical protection''' -> [[Security#Physical_security]]<br />
::* '''Restricting root''' -> We have [[Security#Use_sudo_instead_of_su]] which is a good start, but does not mention [[Ssh#Deny_root_login]]. File system permissions on {{ic|/root}}, which I think by default are not {{ic|700}} (they should be) should be added to [[Security#Filesystem permissions]].<br />
::* '''Umask restrictions''' -> We should talk about {{ic|umask}} in [[Security#Filesystem permissions]].<br />
::* '''Pam modifications''' -> [[Realtime process management]], a wiki page in desperate need of editing.<br />
::* '''Reaping idle users''' -> We should cover this in [[Security#User_setup]].<br />
::* '''Restricting cron and at''' -> We have no equivalent.<br />
::* '''Wireless has to go''' -> Maybe worth talking about, but this is low-priority unless we are willing to write a more detailed section called "Wireless security" that is about more than just "turn off wireless."<br />
::* '''Sysctl Security''' -> Covered in [[Sysctl#TCP/IP stack hardening]], maybe we should just link to this.<br />
::* '''Using TCP Wrappers''' -> I could not find anything on ArchWiki discussing general security practices for {{ic|/etc/hotss}}.<br />
::* '''Beefing up IPTables''' -> Should be adapted into [[Iptables]], but perhaps [[Simple Stateful Firewall]] (an article that has good information, but I am not sure if its name makes sense).<br />
::* '''Tamper Resistance''' -> We should have a section on '''logging''' in general and incorporate tools like this, probably.<br />
::Comments ''highly'' appreciated.<br />
::-- [[User:Ndt|Ndt]] ([[User talk:Ndt|talk]]) 05:09, 3 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:::If you want to start working in this direction, go for it! :) -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 11:04, 5 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Nobody as script user ==<br />
<br />
[[Systemd/cron_functionality#The_pkgstats_service]] article says that it is better to use {{ic|noboby}} for some tipe of scripts. Is there any person who can explain further and add a note in this article?<br />
<br />
-- [[User:Flu|Flu]] ([[User talk:Flu|talk]]) 11:29, 13 September 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
: Following the [[Wikipedia:Principle of least privilege|principle of least privilege]] it is logical to run as many scripts as possible as an unprivileged user. But this is not possible always, e.g. when the script needs (write) access to some file(s) to function properly, you need to provide those privileges. -- [[User:Lahwaacz|Lahwaacz]] ([[User talk:Lahwaacz|talk]]) 13:32, 13 September 2013 (UTC)<br />
::It's not actually a good idea to do this. Processes running as {{ic|nobody}} can ptrace each other, so there is a loss of security if more than one thing is run as that users. Ideally, individual users would be created for each case. [[User:Thestinger|thestinger]] ([[User talk:Thestinger|talk]]) 10:52, 31 March 2014 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Improving the password section ==<br />
<br />
This is a call for ideas and community effort to improve the password recommendations here. I think it's generally agreed that the password section needs (and has, for a long time, needed) some work.<br />
<br />
What does the password section need? Is it even necessary - does it make sense for someone to get this information from a wiki? How can we back up our statements, so that we know that the password recommendations made aren't just totally arbitrary (e.g, "at least one number ...")? <br />
<br />
Citing sources, I think, is useful here - even though there's an element of password generation that is a matter of opinion, there are many recommendation that can be made that are ''not'' opinion. Just my two cents. - [[User:Ndt|Ndt]] ([[User talk:Ndt|talk]]) 21:51, 29 August 2014 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:A part I question is: <br />
<br />
::''Insecure passwords include... Phrases of known words (e.g., all of the lights, correct horse battery staple), even with character substitution.''<br />
<br />
:How about [http://world.std.com/~reinhold/diceware.html Diceware] (mentioned in [[Disk_encryption#Choosing_a_strong_passphrase]], which is linked to at the end of the section) ? --[[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 23:48, 31 August 2014 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::I've added some clarifications to that sentence: [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Security&diff=333453&oldid=333379].<br />
::The whole problem comes down to the bits of entropy of a passphrase: if calculated against brute-force attacks, every character from the chosen set counts, because in general they are not releated to each other. In case of Diceware, the characters inside each word ''are'' related to each other, and instead what is independent are the words themselves, so the bits must be calculated on a per-word basis (it's vulnerable to dictionary attacks, which can be seen as a form of brute-force attack with every word representing a character in a set of 7776). Now, as you can see from the table in [[Wikipedia:Password strength]], a set of 5 Diceware words is equal to e.g. 10 ASCII characters (64 bits); 7 words == 13 ASCII. Nowadays you'd need more than that to be "safe", but in the end it mostly depends on the importance of what you want to protect. Of course if you choose a phrase of words that are also grammatically related with each other, you're exposing it to some smart dictionary attacks, which would further lower the total bits of entropy.<br />
::Actually, that whole section could be questioned, in fact I could make a strong password even with "Root words or common strings followed or preceded by added numbers, symbols, or characters", if I chose enough "root words" and numbers; I could even make a strong password with dictionary words grammatically related, if the sentence was long enough :) I hope it makes it clearer.<br />
::-- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 14:34, 1 September 2014 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::Thanks for clarifying. Maybe add [[Wikipedia:Password strength]] to the article (it's already linked in [[Wikipedia:Password_cracking]], but it wouldn't hurt here)? -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 01:32, 2 September 2014 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::Link added after merging [[Disk_encryption#Choosing_a_strong_passphrase]]. Still, the whole section is very unorganized :( but at least now all the info is gathered in one place. -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 03:16, 3 September 2014 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::First time I ever edit or contribute to a Wiki. I added an example of enforcing a password policy using pam_cracklib [[User:Redsolja|Redsolja]] ([[User talk:Redsolja|talk]]) 15:48, 26 April 2015 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::::Thank you, very well done for a first edit! — [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 02:34, 27 April 2015 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:: Is it OK to add mention of {{AUR|secpwgen}} (for generating diceware passwords)? I'm the maintaner of that package. [[User:Kirillnow|Kirillnow]] ([[User talk:Kirillnow|talk]]) 22:12, 16 May 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:In the Choosing secure passwords section, I'd like to point out that we're linking to an unencrypted webpage for testing password entropy... [[User:phil.r.dubois|phil.r.dubois]] ([[User talk:phil.r.dubois|talk]]) 23:30, 18 April 2018 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Thanks, I originally [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Security&diff=518037&oldid=517999 removed] that part without thinking too much, however that test is completely done on the client in Javascript, so theoretically safely, but still I don't see the point of using a website to do that when proper password managers such as Keepass* do the same right where you should be doing it. -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 15:23, 20 April 2018 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::That explains why it was there in the first place. But yeah, that's a fair assessment. I'd prefer to choose a password manager over trusting the browser any day. [[User:phil.r.dubois|phil.r.dubois]] ([[User talk:phil.r.dubois|talk]]) 15:30, 20 April 2018 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Removal of incorrect warning ==<br />
<br />
:''Moved from [[User_talk:thestinger]].'' -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 16:01, 25 February 2015 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Greetings, I have removed [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Security&diff=307743&oldid=307742 the warning] regarding SHA512 on the password hashing section. It's true that one shouldn't use plain sha512 for password hashing, but that isn't what arch (or other Linux distributions) use or are even able to use. What they call "sha512" is crypt_sha512, analogous to cryptmd5 but with the hash function replaced. Crypt_sha512 is a strong sequential function with a configurable iteration parameter. Normal configurations are fairly slow by default and are configurable to be arbritarily slow. I also updated the text to make it clear that it used an iterated sha512 so that others would be less likely to suffer from your confusion. Cheers. --[[User:Gmaxwell|Gmaxwell]] ([[User talk:Gmaxwell|talk]]) 23:39, 24 December 2014 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I was fully aware that it runs a configurable number of sha512 iterations when I made the change. It's not enough iterations to make up for how cheap it is relative to bcrypt/scrypt and it requires very little memory so it does nothing to counter doing billions of hashes per second on a GPU. I don't care enough to argue about it but you shouldn't assume that it had anything to do with confusion. -- [[User:thestinger|thestinger]] 23:48, 24 December 2014 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Reverted OP's removal a while ago, so this can be closed. -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 12:23, 19 January 2015 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::It may not be wrong, but it’s still misleading, and conflicts with the immediately following paragraph. Is there a nice way to change each to satisfy everyone? -- [[User:Charmander|Charmander]] ([[User talk:Charmander|talk]]) 19:12, 19 January 2015 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:: I have rephrased the first sentence of the following paragraph to "''The default Arch hash [[SHA_password_hashes|sha512]] is, however, different than plain SHA512. It is very strong and there is no need to change it.''" in an attempt to remove the inconsistency. Please proof-read this, since I am a no cryptography expert - the '''only''' source I was using was this very discussion. Also I am not native to English, so I can't guarantee I was grammatically correct. Here is the diff to my edit: [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Security&type=revision&diff=393653&oldid=383265] [[User:Kmph|Kmph]] ([[User talk:Kmph|talk]]) 20:30, 24 August 2015 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::: I don't understand what this changes - how is the SHA512 sum ''different'' (considering thestinger's argument above) ? -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 20:36, 24 August 2015 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::: AFAIK the Arch's SHA512 iterates, while plain SHA512 doesn't? Anyway, if what I wrote is wrong, please revert it. But if you do, please do fix the inconsistency in a more competent way. The original phrasing is misleading and just cannot last any more. [[User:Kmph|Kmph]] ([[User talk:Kmph|talk]]) 20:42, 24 August 2015 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::: See [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Security&diff=393663&oldid=393653]. Perhaps we should also add how the number of iterations could be increased (maximum is 999 999 999, according to man passwd). -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 20:49, 24 August 2015 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::: Added with [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Security&type=revision&diff=393665&oldid=393663]. -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 20:56, 24 August 2015 (UTC)<br />
:::::: edit: going to undo this since I don't know what's meant above with "not enough". -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 20:57, 24 August 2015 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::::: One more thing. Your phrasing does not state whether or not these 5000 iterations, in association with storing passwords in /etc/shadow, actually are secure. With the nearby warning, an impression is made that in might not be enough and that the wiki advises the user to use something else. You have removed this important sentence: "''It is very strong and there is no need to change it''". If this is appropriate, could you kindly explicitly state whether or not this default Arch's hashing is considered secure enough for normal desktop use? [[User:Kmph|Kmph]] ([[User talk:Kmph|talk]]) 21:00, 24 August 2015 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::::: I'm not the expert, but I'd assume 5000 iterations is "not enough". However I don't know if 999 999 999 or any arbitray high amount is "enough" either. This assessment likely changes as hardware gets more powerful, or more efficient methods are discovered.<br />
:::::::: The fact that the hashes are stored in {{ic|/etc/shadow}} should be sufficient, but I don't know how to accurately word that ("can't be copied or cracked" is vague at best). -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 21:05, 24 August 2015 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::::::: I'm honestly unsure if I'm nitpicking or if this is a serious problem. Anyway I [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Security&type=revision&diff=393676&oldid=393670 have put] a Template:Expansion. Hope that's OK? [[User:Kmph|Kmph]] ([[User talk:Kmph|talk]]) 21:23, 24 August 2015 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::::::: Sure, thanks. :) -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 22:02, 24 August 2015 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::::::::I have practically rewritten the section with [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Security&diff=410426&oldid=409966 these 3 edits], adding lots of links so that people can try to better understand this complicated process.<br />
:::::::::::Functions like bcrypt and scrypt are indeed aimed at making it more expensive to brute-force passwords with custom-hardware attacks, but if we don't tell people how to ''decide'' what function to use, and how to ''set'' it up, a warning like that is only FUD...<br />
:::::::::::— [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 15:29, 28 November 2015 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Let's forget about limits.conf? ==<br />
<br />
Look rapidly at [https://sskaje.me/systemd-ulimit/ this] blog post.<br />
<br />
In short: '''limits.conf is useless''' for systemd daemons, because systemd has it's own ''LimitNOFILE=123456'', ''LimitETC=50K''.<br />
<br />
This is also an issue for desktop users, because users implemented via slices, services and User Manager.<br />
<br />
To set per-user resource-limits, now do the following:<br />
<pre><br />
mkdir -p /etc/systemd/system/user@1000.service.d/<br />
cat > /etc/systemd/system/user@1000.service.d/limits.conf << EOF<br />
[Service]<br />
LimitNFILE=131072<br />
EOF<br />
systemd daemon-reload<br />
systemd restart user@1000<br />
</pre><br />
<br />
'''1000''' -- is a user's uid. Optional.<br />
<br />
The archwiki is full of useless limits.conf documentation, it is time to update it, or i've missing something? [[User:Shahid|Shahid]] ([[User talk:Shahid|talk]]) 09:51, 16 December 2015 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:: Oops, looks like all this info valid only for dbus-activated user apps like gnome-terminal.<br />
::[[User:Shahid|Shahid]] ([[User talk:Shahid|talk]]) 14:14, 16 December 2015 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Using systemd for more secure services ==<br />
<br />
I saw [https://lwn.net/SubscriberLink/709755/a3b534d94fc57157/ this article] that lists several options for systemd units to help protect one's system. I think some of these should be added to our article. In particular {{man|5|systemd.exec}} recommends setting/enabling {{ic|ProtectHome}}, {{ic|ProtectSystem}}, {{ic|ProtectKernelTunables}}, {{ic|ProtectControlGroups}}, {{ic|RestrictRealtime}} for most long-running services. Some of these are simple boolean options. Others have different levels that can be set. Lennart lists these and others [https://lwn.net/Articles/709764/ here]. -- [[User:Rdeckard|Rdeckard]] ([[User_talk:Rdeckard|talk]]) 19:40, 3 January 2017 (UTC)<br />
:Working on a draft of some ideas here: [[User:Rdeckard/Secure Systemd]] -- [[User:Rdeckard|Rdeckard]] ([[User_talk:Rdeckard|talk]]) 14:10, 5 January 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Scope ==<br />
<br />
I feel like security is a too big topic to be covered by a single page and I would prefer information on how to secure something to reside in the respective article and [[Security]] to be more like [[General recommendations]] (shorter sections linking other articles).<br />
<br />
Rough proposal:<br />
<br />
* Merge sections with respective articles<br />
** [[Security#File systems]] with [[File systems]]<br />
** [[Security#Use sudo instead of su]] with [[sudo]]<br />
** [[Security#DNS]] with [[Domain name resolution]]<br />
** [[Security#SSH]] with [[Secure Shell]]<br />
** [[Security#Managing SSL certificates]] with [[Transport Layer Security]]<br />
* Move sections with enough content to dedicated articles<br />
** [[Security#Kernel hardening]] to [[Kernel hardening]]<br />
** [[Security#Physical security]] to [[Physical security]]<br />
** [[Security#Passwords]] and [[List of applications/Security#Password managers]] to [[Password management]]<br />
* Create new articles for article-worthy topics<br />
** [[Mandatory access control]], expanding on [[Security#Mandatory access control]]<br />
** [[Sandboxing]], expanding on [[Security#Sandboxing applications]]<br />
** [[Firewall]], expanding on [[Security#Firewalls]] and [[:Category:Firewalls]]<br />
<br />
--[[User:Larivact|Larivact]] ([[User talk:Larivact|talk]]) 18:31, 4 January 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I don't think it's a good idea to force out information just because some section is longer than a few sentences or doesn't conform to the overview-only style.<br />
:* [[Security#File systems]] is already short enough, moving [[Security#Mount options]] to [[File systems]] would make it loose all context (you can change the formatting to shorten the lists)<br />
:* [[Security#Use sudo instead of su]] → [[sudo]]: I agree<br />
:* [[Security#DNS]] is already short enough<br />
:* [[Security#SSH]] is already short enough<br />
:* [[Security#Managing SSL certificates]] → [[Transport Layer Security]]: I agree<br />
:* [[Security#Kernel hardening]] → [[Kernel hardening]]: I think that section alone would make a rather boring page, it is fairly short (except a few longish code blocks)<br />
:* [[Security#Physical security]] is short enough to be kept on this page<br />
:* [[Security#Passwords]] and [[List of applications/Security#Password managers]] → [[Password management]]: I agree, but some people may prefer the list staying in [[List of applications]], in which case the split wouldn't make much sense<br />
:* [[Mandatory access control]], [[Sandboxing]], [[Firewall]] - I think that the new pages would be just another overview pages, the current sections are short enough to be expanded on this page<br />
:-- [[User:Lahwaacz|Lahwaacz]] ([[User talk:Lahwaacz|talk]]) 23:20, 5 January 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Nice to see you agreeing to some merges. Yes [[Security#SSH]] is short but I think the section fits better into an article about SSH. [[Security#DNS]] contains too much details, that duplicate [[Domain name resolution]], for my taste. --[[User:Larivact|Larivact]] ([[User talk:Larivact|talk]]) 15:42, 6 January 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::Regarding [[Security#DNS]] you marked the relevant [[DNS]] sections for rewrite or expansion. It's better if that is finished first. Looking at [[DNS] now, my conclusion is that it would totally overwhelm a reader to understand the main points summarised in two paras here. With [[Security#SSH]] I see it a little different, but crosslinks would get more out of context and may be redacted out by someone unsuspecting. For example, linking [[Google Authenticator]], is more useful in this article, not? --[[User:Indigo|Indigo]] ([[User talk:Indigo|talk]]) 21:49, 6 January 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::The rewrites of [[Domain name resolution]] seem to be finished, so how would you shorten [[Security#DNS]] exactly? I agree that the details should be in one place, but the referencing section shouldn't be just "See [[Domain name resolution]] for details." -- [[User:Lahwaacz|Lahwaacz]] ([[User talk:Lahwaacz|talk]]) 21:56, 9 January 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::The [[DNS]] protocol is inherently insecure because it is unencrypted and unauthenticated. For a summary of the risks, recommended practices and available technology, refer to [[Domain name resolution#Privacy and security]].<br />
<br />
:::::If you own a domain name, set a [[Sender Policy Framework]] policy to combat email spoofing.<br />
<br />
:::::--[[User:Larivact|Larivact]] ([[User talk:Larivact|talk]]) 06:54, 10 January 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::::Looks good to me. -- [[User:Lahwaacz|Lahwaacz]] ([[User talk:Lahwaacz|talk]]) 22:22, 16 January 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::To me this article is not purely 'overview-only' but indeed to provide security context where a topic article may have a more general focus. For example, regarding [[Security#Managing SSL certificates]] that was the reason for my original edit comment in [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Transport_Layer_Security&type=revision&diff=557794&oldid=552726]. It sure can be reworded/maybe shortened, but again the target should be finished before it makes sense to approach such. <br />
::With the rest of the points I agree. --[[User:Indigo|Indigo]] ([[User talk:Indigo|talk]]) 21:49, 6 January 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Enforce a delay after a failed login attempt ==<br />
Would it be worth to mention that auth optional pam_faildelay.so delay=4000000 intended to first login to the system only. And doesn't work when you unlocking screen later.<br />
<br />
[[User:Webcapcha|Webcapcha]] ([[User talk:Webcapcha|talk]]) 19:27, 5 March 2020 (UTC)!<br />
<br />
The additional configuration line has to be inserted as first line of the configuration file. Otherwise it has no effect.<br />
<br />
[[User:Langfingaz|Langfingaz]] ([[User talk:Langfingaz|talk]])<br />
<br />
== proc hidepid ==<br />
<br />
If hidepid is enabled there is a minor [https://github.com/heftig/rtkit/issues/9 issue] with rtkit-daemon errors showing up in syslog.<br />
<br />
[[User:Dmgcontrol|Dmgcontrol]] ([[User talk:Dmgcontrol|talk]]) 14:36, 5 March 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== pam_cracklib, <s>pam_tally and pam_tally2</s> deprecation ==<br />
<br />
These are all deprecated according to this commit https://github.com/linux-pam/linux-pam/commit/f49166c7d8f3ae2c9d337154f7e5dc50d41ab6bf<br />
<br />
This deprecation extends to sections like 'Enforcing strong passwords using pam_cracklib', 'Enforce a delay after a failed login attempt' and such.<br />
<br />
{{unsigned|17:19, 20 August 2020|Aleprovencio}}<br />
<br />
:changed "Lockout user after three failed login attempts" section to reflect deprecation of pam_tally2, only pam_cracklib is left - [[User:Kazel|Kazel]] ([[User talk:Kazel|talk]]) 22:27, 20 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== systemd unit hardening and system.conf tweaks ==<br />
<br />
As described in [[systemd#Sandboxing application environments]], it is possible to sandbox/harden service units using systemd (also see {{man|5|systemd.exec}}). I think it is well worth mentioning this under [[Security#Sandboxing applications]] and ''maybe'' moving the section from the systemd article to this one.<br />
<br />
Especially because it is so trivial to do so it should be added in my opinion. As always, it depends, but a few directives (see below) can make a unit significantly more secure. The "highlights" in my opinion are:<br />
<br />
* {{ic|NoNewPrivileges}}, basically prevents privilege escalation. See also {{ic|RestrictSUIDSGID}}<br />
* {{ic|ProtectSystem}} and {{ic|ProtectHome}}, this is configurable and an easy way to prohibit an application from manipulating things that it should not touch. Also prevents them from doing too much damage when they explode.<br />
* {{ic|AmbientCapabilities}} (and {{ic|CapabilitiyBoundingSet}}), there is no need to run e.g nginx as root anymore if you can assign the unit {{ic|CAP_NET_BIND_SERVICE}}, so it can bind port 80/443. This is just an example, there might be cases where it makes more sense to let the application handle the dropping of privileges.<br />
* {{ic|PrivateTmp}}, {{ic|PrivateDevices}}, {{ic|PrivateNetwork}}, {{ic|PrivateUsers}}, restricts the things the unit can see and use.<br />
* certain performance-related directives from {{man|5|systemd.resource-control}}, e.g {{ic|MemoryMax}}. "Prevents" running of (with one of the CPU-related directives, of course) crypto miners. This is not really a "real" argument but restricting the resources a process can devour also has a few positive security-related side effects.<br />
<br />
There are many, many more directives but I think that only the most important ones should be mentioned in the section.<br />
<br />
<br />
Another thing I want to mention are some {{ic|/etc/systemd/system.conf}} ({{man|5|systemd-system.conf}}) tweaks:<br />
<br />
* Set {{ic|SystemCallArchitectures}} to {{ic|'''native'''}}. This prevents running 32-bit binaries (because it blocks these syscalls), so unfortunately not every user can set this globally. As far as I know there are some (relatively) minor security implications from allowing 32-bit syscalls. However it is possible to override this for individual units, so the user can set this and make separate units for the (graphical) 32-bit binaries they need to run. This is quite tedious though.<br />
* Set {{ic|Default{CPU,IO,IP,BlockIO,Memory,Tasks}Accounting}} to {{ic|'''yes'''}}. This is mostly a nice "performance monitoring" feature but it might be useful to see when a process used quite a bit of bandwidth. This gets logged into the journal and will be visible in the {{ic|systemctl status}} output.<br />
<br />
Yes, I saw the [[#Using systemd for more secure services|other]] entry for this, but it is quite old and does not include {{ic|system.conf}}<br />
<br />
[[User:NetSysFire|NetSysFire]] ([[User talk:NetSysFire|talk]]) 02:20, 25 February 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I'm against moving any of these instructions to [[Security]], it would make the page unnecessarily detailed and long. I think it would be better to split off [[systemd#Sandboxing application environments]] into e.g. [[systemd/Sandboxing]], merge [[Arch package guidelines/Security#Systemd services]] there and then add all other hardening stuff. The new page could then linked from [[Security#Sandboxing applications]]. -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 09:34, 25 February 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Adding this just for reference; NetSysFire's proposed draft is at [[User:NetSysFire/systemd sandboxing]]. -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 06:21, 14 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Why do you list Diceware as an insecure method to generate passwords? ==<br />
<br />
Your article states:<br />
<br />
''Insecure passwords include those containing:''<br />
<br />
(...)<br />
<br />
* ''Common phrases or strings of dictionary words (e.g. {{ic|photocopyhauntbranchexpose}}) including with character substitution (e.g. {{ic|Ph0toc0pyh4uN7br@nch3xp*se}})''<br />
<br />
And it further elaborates:<br />
<br />
''Formerly, it was effective to use a memorable long series of unrelated words as a password. The theory is that if a sufficiently long phrase is used, the gained entropy from the password's length can counter the lost entropy from the use of dictionary words. This [https://xkcd.com/936/ xkcd comic] demonstrates the entropy tradeoff of this method. However, password crackers have caught on to this trick and will generate wordlists containing billions of permutations and variants of dictionary words, reducing the effective entropy of the password.''<br />
<br />
I'm not sure if I understand this line of reasoning?<br />
<br />
There are 95 printable ASCII characters. There are 95^16 (~= 4*10^31) possible passwords consisting of 16 random characters drawn from the pool of 95 printable ASCII characters. Likewise, there are 95^15 (~= 5*10^29) possible 15-character passwords.<br />
<br />
A standard Diceware dictionary consists of 6^5 = 7776 words. This means there are 7776^8 (~= 1*10^31) possible 8 word Diceware passwords. This means that a Diceware password is somewhat less secure than a 16 character random password, but more secure than a 15 character random password.<br />
<br />
It doesn't seem to matter if 'passwords crackers have caught on this trick' or not. If password crackers are going to mount a brute force attack using 'wordlists containing bilions of permutations and variants of dictionary words' they will still have to try about as many combinations as if they were cracking a 15 or 16 character fully random password. And that is assuming that the crackers are using the same dictionary that was used to generate the password (and we should assume this, as per the Kerckhoffs's principle).<br />
<br />
If this password strength is unsatisfactory then there is no need to limit ourselves just to 7776 words. There are many more words in the language to choose from. For example, on my bookshelf I have a dictionary titled '100000 necessary words'. I'm sure we can find digital dictionaries of that many or even more words, faciliting automated generation of secure Diceware passwords. If this method was used we would end up 100000^8 = 10^40 possible passwords; this is even slightly better than if we were using a 20 character random password, as there are 95^20 ~= 4*10^39.<br />
<br />
On the other hand, I'm pretty sure that an 8 word password, even one that uses obscure words, is easier to remember & type than a 20 or even 16 character random password. [[User:Kmph|Kmph]] ([[User talk:Kmph|talk]]) 17:39, 1 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
: Just to add more context, the 7776 word limits comes from the number of permutation available with throwing 6 sided dices ( times, that's how you get the words. Either you keep this method as base, add another dice throw and you need to have a 46656 word list (I mean, I'm all for multilingual lists!), or you somehow reduce the value of the last throw (with a modulo 3 for example).<br />
<br />
: Otherwise, I agree with your reasoning. It doesn't matter if the word list is public or not (I mean, you could create your own word list for all that matters).<br />
<br />
: Also, one thing to take into account is the threat model. Who are you trying to protect yourself from? The government? They have much more effective method of getting your password if they really want to that just blindly bruteforcing it. From script kiddies hacking websites? You need a password stronger than the one from your neighbor and mainly unique (that's the big problem).<br />
: I also can't wait to have emojis in my passwords (and a way to type them easily on my computer too!). You blend in emojis in the mix and your character list jumped from 95 to 3616. Until then, passphrases are king in my kingdom.<br />
: [[User:Gromain|Gromain]] ([[User talk:Gromain|talk]]) 09:42, 12 May 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
: I fully agree with [[User:Kmph|Kmph]]. The justification for rejecting Diceware doesn't prove anything. Also the article recommends using a mnemonic phrase (“the girl is walking down the rainy street”) to remember a password where one word encodes one character in the password. This method is inferior to Diceware since a Diceware word contains 2 times more entropy than a character. The phrase “strings of dictionary words” and the justification for rejecting Diceware should be removed. --[[User:Beroal|Beroal]] ([[User talk:Beroal|talk]]) 12:33, 16 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:You should only use this type of password when you can not use a password manager, e.g as your LUKS or password manager passphrase since you have to enter these manually. Most other things can have a 128-char random password or similar.<br />
:Those things also tend to be harder to bruteforce as these are usually not accessable via the internet. The main concern here is actually shoulder surfing, so longer xkcd-style passphrases ''may'' help with that.<br />
:-- [[User:NetSysFire|NetSysFire]] ([[User talk:NetSysFire|talk]]) 12:50, 16 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Adding a section for issuing ATA SECURITY FREEZE LOCK command to SSD after putting the laptop to sleep and waking up ==<br />
<br />
I want to add a section to this page to discuss the problem of Solid State Drives being vulnerable to ATA SECURE ERASE commands after waking up from sleep.<br />
<br />
I first noticed this issue in the [[Solid state drive/Memory cell clearing]] article, and even presented a semi-solution to it in the section I wrote for Acer laptops ( specifically the Warning at the end ): [[Acer#Aspire_3_A315-56_internal_storage_not_showing_up]] ( Angle Devoid is my previous wiki account )<br />
<br />
To explain this problem very briefly, SSDs at their normal condition are in a security state defined by the ATA specification as "SEC2".<br />
<br />
In this security state, the "Frozen" bit is set so that commands like ATA SECURE ERASE cannot be executed.<br />
<br />
The ATA SECURE ERASE is a firmware level command that, quote: "an easy-to-use data destroy command, amounting to electronic data shredding. Executing the command causes a drive to internally completely erase all user data. If this function is executed, then all user data and the management table will be destroyed and cannot be permanently retrieved."<br />
<br />
When you put your device to sleep and wake it up, the SSD will have changed its state from "SEC2" to "SEC1", thus loosing its "Frozen" bit and is vulnerable to ATA SECURE ERASE commands.<br />
<br />
If you want, this is the ATA specification I used to get some of my information from: https://people.freebsd.org/~imp/asiabsdcon2015/works/d2161r5-ATAATAPI_Command_Set_-_3.pdf<br />
<br />
I want to add a sub-section to the ''storage'' section of the wiki article to address this issue, is this the right place to do?<br />
<br />
[[User:Lancia|Lancia]] ([[User talk:Lancia|talk]]) 08:54, 27 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Interesting find! Does it occur on all systems that the SSD transitions from SEC2 to SEC1 when unsuspending? Is it only some SSD models that do this? Thanks, [[User:CodingKoopa|CodingKoopa]] ([[User talk:CodingKoopa|talk]]) 07:04, 28 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::I have 2 models of SSD, a Samsung and a Micron, I witnessed that the transition occurs in both of them, So I guess every SSD model has this sort of behaviour, and I haven't seen any specific model mentioned that does not. [[User:Lancia|Lancia]] ([[User talk:Lancia|talk]]) 12:07, 28 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:There is [[Solid state drive#Security]] which doesn't even seem linked from this article.<br />
:Perhaps it would be better if you added a subsection there, and linked that Security section from [[Security#Storage]].<br />
:-- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 12:25, 28 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::The article you mentioned does not give any kind of solution for sending ATA SECURITY FREEZE LOCK after waking up from sleep, this is the point I'm trying to make.<br />
::The solution itself is very trivial, just put a script in /usr/lib/systemd/system-sleep/ to be run after waking up from sleep to issue an ATA SECURITY FREEZE LOCK.<br />
::I'm not using systemd and I've even made a script to be run by elogind that does this for me, and from what I know, the syntax and rules do not differ, so my script can be easily copy and pasted into /usr/lib/systemd/system-sleep/:<br />
{{hc|1=/etc/elogind/system-sleep/freeze-ssd.sh|2=<br />
#!/bin/sh<br />
if [ "$1" = 'post' ]; then<br />
sleep 1<br />
DEV='/dev/disk/by-id/ata-Samsung_SSD_860_EVO_250GB'<br />
if hdparm --security-freeze "$DEV"; then<br />
logger "$0: ssd freeze command executed successfuly"<br />
else<br />
logger "$0: ssd freeze command failed"<br />
fi <br />
fi<br />
}}<br />
::[[User:Lancia|Lancia]] ([[User talk:Lancia|talk]]) 06:00, 30 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::Perhaps I didn't make myself well understood: what I'm suggesting is that you add your proposed content under [[Solid state drive#Security]] instead of directly to this article, since that page is more specific to SSDs.<br />
:::Then, as an additional suggestion, I recommended adding a link to [[Solid state drive#Security]] from [[Security#Storage]].<br />
:::-- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 20:04, 30 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::While expanding [[Solid state drive#Security]] for it works, because it already explains the subject, another option is to add a section to [[Hdparm#Tips and tricks]] with respective service units. This in turn can be linked from the storage section of this article and [[SSD#Security]]. [[Hdparm]] already contains examples for boot (e.g. [[Hdparm#Putting a drive to sleep directly after boot]]) and resume ([[Hdparm#APM level reset after suspend]]) units, which can be easily adapted or referred to. The point is: it is up to the drive/bios manufacturer whether a drive will be frozen at cold boot (as Lancia's is). Hence, both, cold boot and resume, may be useful to cover. In addition, you can also --security-freeze a HDD, but the tool is always hdparm.<br />
::::--[[User:Indigo|Indigo]] ([[User talk:Indigo|talk]]) 22:08, 30 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::Are we able to close this discussion? It looks like the relevant content has been added. -- [[User:CodingKoopa|CodingKoopa]] ([[User talk:CodingKoopa|talk]]) 05:37, 13 August 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Sandboxing applications: add warning re. use of kernel.unprivileged_userns_clone? ==<br />
<br />
The article doesn't make clear that setting kernel_unprivileged_userns_clone to 0 may break applications unexpectedly. I don't know if this is a common problem, but zoom dumps core if this is set this way and it was not at all obvious to me what was going wrong. Should there be a note to be aware of this kind of pitfall as a caveat to the recommendation? Alternatively, is there a better solution for applications such as zoom? --[[User:Margali|cfr]] ([[User talk:Margali|talk]]) 21:28, 21 December 2022 (UTC)</div>Margalihttps://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Talk:Audit_framework&diff=760290Talk:Audit framework2022-12-13T16:39:17Z<p>Margali: Audit files and directories access</p>
<hr />
<div>The instructions say to append rule to /etc/audit/audit.rules, but there is no such file on my system. Am I supposed to put rules into an empty file or copy a default from somewhere? Also, systemctl status auditd.service shows augenrules is looking for the directory /etc/audit/rules.d rather than the file mentioned in the instructions, so I'm not even clear whether audit.rules is correct. I don't have the directory either on my machine. --[[User:Margali|cfr]] ([[User talk:Margali|talk]]) 16:39, 13 December 2022 (UTC)</div>Margalihttps://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Talk:Pacman/Tips_and_tricks&diff=760173Talk:Pacman/Tips and tricks2022-12-13T01:11:15Z<p>Margali: /* Is PackageKit still not recommended to use in 2022? */ design ...</p>
<hr />
<div>== Leading slash ==<br />
<br />
[[Pacman/Tips_and_tricks#aria2]] doesn't work without leading slash, i.e. {{ic|-d /}} turning file names to {{ic|//var/cache/...}}. The article mentions this, but it doesn't mention why. -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 05:28, 16 October 2015 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:You would have to go [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Improve_pacman_performance&diff=32104&oldid=30674 way] [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Improve_pacman_performance&diff=next&oldid=115292 back] to track this. It seems to have worked without {{ic|-d /}} even in 2006: [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Faster_Pacman_Downloads&oldid=15627], [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Improve_pacman_performance&oldid=17759]. <s>I guess that simply nobody asked the right question...</s> -- [[User:Lahwaacz|Lahwaacz]] ([[User talk:Lahwaacz|talk]]) 12:30, 16 October 2015 (UTC)<br />
:Oops, it does ''not'' work without {{ic|-d /}}. Then the problem must be on aria's side, which expects a file name for the {{ic|-o}} option, which is then catenated with {{ic|-d}} into the full path. Assuming that {{ic|-d}} defaults to the cwd, {{ic|/var/cache/}} would appear twice in the result. -- [[User:Lahwaacz|Lahwaacz]] ([[User talk:Lahwaacz|talk]]) 12:43, 16 October 2015 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== pacman cache ==<br />
<br />
I still think we should warn people not to symlink /var or anything under it. It leaves the whole system unusable because if the cache disappears during a pacman transaction, you're left with missing /usr/lib libraries, and nothing works, including pacman itself. This is a serious enough problem that it can take hours to figure out how to recover. If the wiki had mentioned this problem it would have saved me a lot of time and effort, and I'm not the only one who has run in to this. It is not, however, considered a bug. See https://bugs.archlinux.org/task/50298. [[User:JimRees|JimRees]] ([[User talk:JimRees|talk]]) 23:15, 29 April 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:This revisions says that: [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Pacman%2FTips_and_tricks&type=revision&diff=475454&oldid=475438]. But to make it more clear: [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Pacman%2FTips_and_tricks&type=revision&diff=475492&oldid=475482] -- [[User:Rdeckard|Rdeckard]] ([[User_talk:Rdeckard|talk]]) 00:13, 30 April 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Actually, I undid my change since I think that first change is more accurate (mentioning {{ic|/var/cache/pacman/pkg}} and ancestors), so I went back to that but explicitly mentioned {{ic|/var}} as an example. -- [[User:Rdeckard|Rdeckard]] ([[User_talk:Rdeckard|talk]]) 01:11, 30 April 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
: Thanks for the background information. I was not aware of the bug report and now clearly understand why you altered the section the way you did. I hope the [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Pacman/Tips_and_tricks&diff=475548&oldid=475495 recent change] is sufficient for you. Since every misbehaving program might leave a system unbootable if it plays a role in the boot process, it should be unnecessary to add this redundant information. However the problem you described is still severe and I hope you agree that the recent edits made to the article do the topic justice. Thanks for clarifying the topic and adding this to the article and sorry for reverting your edits at first. -- [[User:Edh|Edh]] ([[User talk:Edh|talk]]) 21:07, 30 April 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== local repository database extension/compression recomendation ==<br />
<br />
If you opt to not compress a pacman database, the files database can become very large, 10x larger than a gzipped one in my case, which cause issues when trying to update the local pacman files db (pacman -Fy) since apparently there is a max (expected) size. Should we include a warning about uncompressed databases?<br />
<br />
{{unsigned|00:35, 29 January 2019|JoshH100}}<br />
<br />
== Use a new nginx.conf for [[Pacman/Tips_and_tricks#Dynamic_reverse_proxy_cache_using_nginx|Dynamic reverse proxy cache using nginx]] ==<br />
<br />
I propose to replace the [https://gist.github.com/anonymous/97ec4148f643de925e433bed3dc7ee7d current nginx.conf] with an [https://github.com/nastasie-octavian/nginx_pacman_cache_config/blob/master/nginx.conf improved nginx.conf] and update the section. The new config doesn't make the upstream servers directly available on the network and it allows having mirrors with different relative paths to package files. It also removes directives that are not needed and has some other minor cleanups. I've been using a similar config for a few months now without any problems, so I believe it should be fine. [[User:Noctavian|Noctavian]] ([[User talk:Noctavian|talk]]) 16:05, 28 February 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:What do you mean by "The new config doesn't make the upstream servers directly available on the network"? -- [[User:Lahwaacz|Lahwaacz]] ([[User talk:Lahwaacz|talk]]) 20:54, 28 February 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:: In the new config the server blocks for the upstream mirrors are set to listen to 127.0.0.1:800X. Only the computer that is running the nginx cache can send requests to 127.0.0.1. Other computers on the network can't. The current config exposes the upstream mirrors to the network, a nmap scan will show the 8080 port of the cache as open and the ports 8001, 8002, 8003 of the upstream mirrors as open. One can browse to cache.domain.example:8002 and have direct access to whatever package mirror website is used by the cache bypassing the cache config order and locations. The upstream mirrors don't need to be available to the entire network for the cache to work; they only need to be available to the computer that is hosting the nginx cache. I believe ports should not be left open on the network if they don't have to be open. [[User:Noctavian|Noctavian]] ([[User talk:Noctavian|talk]]) 08:37, 1 March 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
: I have written a draft for the section update on my [[User:Noctavian|user page]]. I made some small changes to the config file since last week, added comments and mirror examples and turned off IPv6 address resolution to prevent some errors that can happen sometimes. Suggestions.are welcome. I haven't seen objections to my proposal, so I'm going to wait a few more days for feedback and then update the section on the main page with my draft and the new nginx.conf file if that's ok. [[User:Noctavian|Noctavian]] ([[User talk:Noctavian|talk]]) 11:43, 8 March 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Feel free to go ahead. -- [[User:Lahwaacz|Lahwaacz]] ([[User talk:Lahwaacz|talk]]) 17:11, 16 March 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Remove uninstalled packages from the cache with paccache ==<br />
<br />
Just figured the following out, noting here since I'm not sure it's worth noting in the page itself: {{ic|paccache}} won't remove uninstalled packages, even with {{ic|-u}}, unless {{ic|-k}} is given a value lower than the number of instances in cache. In particular, oneshot AUR experiments won't be removed without {{ic|-k0}}.<br />
[[User:Gesh|Gesh]] ([[User talk:Gesh|talk]]) 01:23, 1 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:The {{ic|-u}} flag just adds all installed packages to the blacklist. So to remove uninstalled packages from the cache and nothing else, use {{ic|-uk0}}. — [[User:Lahwaacz|Lahwaacz]] ([[User talk:Lahwaacz|talk]]) 06:28, 1 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Additional options needed for mounting overlay of remote pacman pkg cache ==<br />
<br />
"The factual accuracy of this article or section is disputed. Reason: Why is -o index=off -o metacopy=off needed? Is -o redirect_dir=off needed only for this use-case? If not, it should be explained on the overlay filesystem page too."<br />
<br />
My reply: I'm not an expert on use of sshfs for mounting remote filesystems. To me, using sshfs is much simpler than going to all the trouble of setting up the chosen box to serve up {{ic|/var/cache/pacman/pkg}} over, e.g., NFS. I wonder if using fuse.sshfs leads to this problem? That being said, my setup is bog standard, all boxes using ''linux'' kernel from Arch, connected to the same LAN switch with normal IPv4 addressing, e.g., 192.168.1.100, and so on.<br />
<br />
Without using any additional options the problem I encounter is an unusual but familiar one, namely:<br />
$ ls /tmp/pacman_pkg/ > /dev/null<br />
ls: reading directory '/tmp/pacman_pkg/': Stale file handle<br />
<br />
This is obviously unworkable. The minimal options I am able to succeed with are: {{ic|1=-o redirect_dir=off -o index=off}}. Prior to the 5.17 kernel series, I needed {{ic|1=-o index=off -o metacopy=off}} but in my use something then changed which requires {{ic|1=-o redirect_dir=off}} (and {{ic|1=-o metacopy=off}} now comes along for free). Without these options... "Stale file handle".<br />
<br />
I am eliminating additional options from the generic commands even though I expect that anyone who tries to run them as listed will fail due to the file handle reporting as stale. I will add a tip note suggesting these options if problems are encountered. HTH :) [[User:Cmsigler|Cmsigler]] ([[User talk:Cmsigler|talk]]) 16:21, 27 April 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I'm not super familiar with sshfs, but this looks good to me! Thanks for addressing the accuracy template ^^ [[User:CodingKoopa|CodingKoopa]] ([[User talk:CodingKoopa|talk]]) 06:48, 2 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Is PackageKit still not recommended to use in 2022? ==<br />
<br />
In [[Pacman/Tips_and_tricks#Graphical]], a warning says that PackageKit opens up system permissions by default and thus is not recommended to use. However, that warning was added back in 2018 and it links bug reports from 2016. I'm wondering if it's still valid in 2022? Also, as far as I know, PackageKit only allowed users from the wheel group to perform updates (kind of similar to what sudo does).<br />
<br />
Is this still the case nowadays? If so, are there any other warnings one should know of before using PackageKit? I'm thinking partial upgrades, but I'm not sure. [[User:Cont999|Cont999]] ([[User talk:Cont999|talk]]) 03:54, 3 September 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
: sudo pacman requires a password, whereas PackageKit doesn't, so they are really not equivalent. I believe PackageKit can also update the system even if the user is not in the wheel group. I haven't looked upstream, but this is how the software is designed to work because it fits the way other distributions configure things. In Fedora, for example, you do not need to authenticate to install updates to the system. Updates can also run without user intervention. These practices are dangerous on Arch. Unattended updates aren't supported and attended ones require you to read the output and the News. So the problems using PackageKit on Arch are not going to be resolved unless changes are made locally, but there's not much motivation to do that as Arch users are expected to be able to use pacman. That is, the bugs on Arch aren't bugs elsewhere, so upstream is unlikely to fix them (and break how stuff works elsewhere); the bugs are more easily avoided on Arch by not using PackageKit. At least, that would be my understanding. --[[User:Margali|cfr]] ([[User talk:Margali|talk]]) 01:11, 13 December 2022 (UTC)</div>Margalihttps://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Talk:Installation_guide&diff=759533Talk:Installation guide2022-12-10T04:54:44Z<p>Margali: /* Microcode */ .</p>
<hr />
<div>== Read this first before adding new suggestions ==<br />
<br />
* systemd tools such as ''hostnamectl'', ''timedatectl'' and ''localectl'' [https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/798#issuecomment-126568596 do not work] in the installation chroot environment, so please do not propose to use them in the guide unless you can prove that they have been made to work also in that case. See [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Talk:Beginners%27_guide&oldid=388727#General_problems], [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Talk:Beginners%27_guide&oldid=404695#Replace_commands_with_their_systemd_equivalents], [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Talk:Beginners%27_guide&oldid=418662#Utilizing_systemd_tools] and [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Talk:Installation_guide&oldid=434985#change_configuration_system_from_old_way_to_new_way.28using_systemd_commands.29] for some past discussions about this issue.<br />
* {{ic|localectl list-keymaps}} does not work due to bug {{Bug|46725}}. For the chosen replacement command, see [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Talk:Beginners%27_guide&oldid=435044#localectl].<br />
* Due to the wide variety of available boot loaders, the installation guide refers to [[Arch_boot_process#Boot_loader]] instead of making a specific recommendation for the installed system. See [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Talk:Installation_guide&oldid=687325#Bootloader], [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Talk:Installation_guide&oldid=690612#Make_the_Boot_Loader_Section_slightly_more_detailed_to_provide_a_high_level_overview_for_new_users], [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Talk:Installation_guide&oldid=678949#Expand_Boot_loader_section], [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Talk:Installation_guide&oldid=660151#Expand_Boot_loader_section_to_include_example_commands], [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Talk:Installation_guide&oldid=581427#Boot_loader_installation] for some past discussions on this topic.<br />
* While [[:Category:Installation process]] lists additional installation methods (e.g. [[archinstall]] or [[systemd-firstboot]]), the installation guide does not reference them due to their specific nature. [[Install_Arch_Linux_with_accessibility_options]] is an exception. See [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Talk:Installation_guide&oldid=698307#Point_out_archinstall] for past discussion on this topic.<br />
-- [[ArchWiki:Administrators|The ArchWiki Administrators]] 22:17, 2 September 2016 (UTC)<br />
__TOC__<br />
<br />
== Link to the German version ==<br />
<br />
Instead of [[de:Arch Install Scripts]] you could choose [[de:Anleitung für Einsteiger]] it means "Beginner's Guid" and is a very <br />
detailed artikel for very new arch users and the future experts.<br />
<br />
:Thank you, [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Installation_guide&type=revision&diff=509961&oldid=508505 done]. -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 16:31, 6 February 2018 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::This was already proposed last year and rejected: [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Talk:Installation_guide&oldid=466950#Suggesting_different_page_for_German_translation]. I don't see what has changed since then. If someone adds me as admin to the german wiki or changes the protection settings, I can update [[de:Arch Install Scripts]] as required. -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 18:13, 6 February 2018 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::I see, I didn't remember that discussion so I've reverted the change, hopefully you'll make it to update the translation, let's leave this open until the problem is solved, otherwise this kind of suggestion will keep appearing recurrently. -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 17:53, 7 February 2018 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::Apparently since last year the translation has been halved in size, but its scope is still much larger than the [[Install guide]] (or even the old [[Beginners' guide]]). -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 09:42, 9 May 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== HiDPI on the console ==<br />
<br />
With an ever increasing number of [[HiDPI]] displays, including at the begging of the article a section about adjusting the scaling factor or changing the font can be helpful, see [[HiDPI#Linux_console]]. [[User:Goetzc|Goetzc]] ([[User talk:Goetzc|talk]]) 02:21, 8 August 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:It could be added as an example for {{ic|setfont}} in [[Installation_guide#Set_the_keyboard_layout]]. The issue I have is that [[HiDPI#Linux_console]] mentions that {{ic|tty2-6}} may be unusable, while the Installation guide specifically instructs to change ttys as required in [[Installation_guide#Boot_the_live_environment]]. -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 13:07, 7 September 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::May be as an example for the line "See README.bootparams for a list of boot parameters" [[Installation_guide#Boot_the_live_environment]], it could be specified to hit {{ic|e}} button to edit the boot entry and add the following parameters to the boot line, like {{ic|1=video=1920x1080}} if you have HiDPI display. -- [[User:Xzorg6|Xzorg6]] ([[User talk:Xzorg6|talk]]) 22:41, 15 December 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::{{ic|1=video=}} will just change the resolution. To get a bigger font on the console, you need {{ic|1=CONFIG_FONT_TER16x32=y}} in the kernel config and {{ic|1=fbcon=font:TER16x32}} in the kernel command line. Since the official kernels don't enable {{ic|CONFIG_FONT_TER16x32}}, someone will need to open a bug report asking for it. After that, the instructions for setting the {{ic|1=fbcon=font:TER16x32}} [[kernel parameter]] could be added to the wiki. -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 06:52, 16 December 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::{{Pkg|linux}} 5.5.6.arch1-1 <s>(currently in testing)</s> has {{ic|1=CONFIG_FONT_TER16x32=y}} ({{Bug|64861}}). <s>If if gets move to core before March, then</s> the March iso will have it. It's probably a good idea to start drafting a [[Template:Tip|tip]] to place in [[Installation guide#Boot the live environment]]. -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 11:12, 26 February 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::And just after I wrote this, the package was moved to core. -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 11:27, 26 February 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::I'm seeing multiple claims[https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=253319][https://www.reddit.com/r/archlinux/comments/fbi4vx/text_size_during_boot_changed_since_my_last/][https://www.reddit.com/r/archlinux/comments/fgct3t/how_to_get_currently_loaded_console_font_of_the/] that people with HiDPI screens are getting the TER16x32 font. I was not aware that the kernel chooses a font depending on screen size. Can anyone confirm that this really is the case? If it really works that way and unless {{Bug|65680}} messes this up, then there's nothing to add to the Installation guide about this topic. -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 06:02, 11 March 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::::As per https://lore.kernel.org/lkml/20190618203425.10723-4-tiwai@suse.de/ the decision to use ter16x32 is not based on screen size but only resolution.So even though a 1080p screen may be hidpi it does not use ter16x32 [[User:M.Srikanth|M.Srikanth]] ([[User talk:M.Srikanth|talk]]) 10:17, 11 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::::At least that part is now clear, thanks. The first step should be to get [[HiDPI#Linux console]] up to date. After that, as I've said before, a tip for the installation guide can be drafted. -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 11:04, 11 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::::: I fixed the page and removed the template [[User:M.Srikanth|M.Srikanth]] ([[User talk:M.Srikanth|talk]]) 12:25, 11 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== First mention of /mnt in example partition layout ==<br />
<br />
{{ic|/mnt}} is mentioned at mount point in [[Installation_guide#Partition_the_disks]], while {{ic|/mnt}} is made explicit two sections later in [[Installation_guide#Mount_the_file_systems]]. As I recall it, this was changed because some users blindly copy pasted commands and mounted /boot on the live system, instead of /mnt/boot. Some options:<br />
<br />
* Introduce another column describing the mount point on the installed system. <br />
* Actually explain /mnt early.<br />
* Revert the "mount point" to not include /mnt.<br />
<br />
-- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 13:03, 7 September 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I don't understand what's the actual problem here... -- [[User:Lahwaacz|Lahwaacz]] ([[User talk:Lahwaacz|talk]]) 09:36, 8 September 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::From what I read on [[ArchWiki:IRC|#archlinux-wiki]], this comes from https://www.reddit.com/r/archlinux/comments/d0v0j3/is_it_just_me_or_is_the_prospect_of_installing/ where the user was confused by the lack of root mountpoint (i.e. {{ic|/mnt}} vs {{ic|/}}). A question could be raised, if we should concern ourselves with users who have strong opinions about the wiki content yet can't be bothered to propose improvements in the talk pages...<br />
::About Alad's proposed options: I disagree with the first option, I think it will just complicate things even further. I support the third option and maybe adjusting the column header like in [[Special:Diff/581800]].<br />
::I'd actually would like to go even further and change the commands run from outside chroot to be visually distinct, e.g.: {{bc|1=<span style="color: #ff0000;">root@archiso #</span> mount /dev/sd''X1'' /mnt}}<br />
::I think it would better solve the underlying issue. <br />
:: -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 15:26, 8 September 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::I'm not overly fond of the longer column name. For the last proposed option, I may agree if this is formalized in [[Help:Style]], so that it is not specfic to the [[Installation guide]]. -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 11:20, 10 September 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::Adding it [[Help:Style]] was my intention, since other articles, too, will need to use that style for some commands. I'm thinking of creating a template for it: [[Special:Permalink/581945]]. -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 10:19, 11 September 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::Sounds good to me, I'd just prefer the regular (non-bold) font for the prompt as above. -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 21:54, 13 September 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::::[[Special:Permalink/582327]]. Are there any other opinions about creating such a template? Or should I take this discussion to [[Help talk:Template]] per [[Help:Template#Creation]]? -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 18:31, 14 September 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::::# How are you going to call the template? This template would probably add to the [[Help:Template#Code formatting templates]] series, should it be named in a consistent fashion?<br />
:::::::# Should this template support custom prompts, and if so, should it be called "pc" (from "(custom) prompted" code)?<br />
:::::::# I don't like the red color too much, if bold is not an option maybe we can go green|purple|blue, something that recalls less a warning of some kind? Or can we just leave it with the default font color? Or a slightly fainter black?<br />
:::::::# I haven't looked well into it, but maybe we can instead add an optional argument to [[Template:bc]] and [[Template:hc]] that prefixes a custom (colored) prompt? I wouldn't see a problem with repeating "root@archiso #" in every instance, or we may derive the new template from those two at that point.<br />
:::::::# The template should probably be derived from [[Template:bc]] in any case, for simpler code, see [[User:Kynikos/Template:Sandbox2]].<br />
:::::::-- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 17:36, 16 September 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::::::# Initially I was going to call it [[Template:Archiso]] since it would be [[Archiso]]-specific, but I'm starting to think that creating a more general-purpose template would be better. It could then be used in [[PostgreSQL]] and the {{ic|[postgres]$}} convention would get formalized in [[Help:Style]]. Now the issue is the {{ic|[user@peer-a]#}} in [[Template:hc]] used in [[WireGuard]]. I'd rather not create two new templates, but I'm having trouble getting [[Template:Sandbox]] to work :(<br />
::::::::# I like your "[[Template:pc]]" suggestion.<br />
::::::::# Be glad I didn't post my first draft that was ''slightly more'' colorful. From your offered colors, I'd choose purple.<br />
::::::::# I'd rather not mess with the established templates just for this change, so I'd prefer creating a new template.<br />
::::::::# I didn't even think about using [[Template:bc]]. Is it a good idea to do that? The new template might need to be updated if [[Template:bc]] is ever changed in an incompatible way.<br />
:::::::: -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 07:33, 17 September 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::::::Yeah, after viewing your attempts and looking into it myself, I think modifying bc/hc is out of discussion, it would add too much code/style for so little use.<br />
:::::::::Thinking about this again one day after, I feel I'm realizing that my concerns in general may descend from the fact that we're going to create a template to represent (block) code, even though we already have 2 which basically do the same thing, including allowing to include a prompt; the only addition of this "Archiso" or "pc" template would be the formatting around the prompt, so why not keep it simple (I know, "simplicity" is often subjective and controversial) and instead either make a [[Template:Archiso]] to be used like {{ic|<nowiki>{{bc|{{Archiso}} mount /dev/sdX1 /mnt}}</nowiki>}} or [[Template:ps]] (or [[Template:PS]]) to be used like {{ic|<nowiki>{{hc|{{ps|root@archiso #}} mount /dev/sdX1 /mnt}}</nowiki>}}? They also work with [[Template:hc]] and space-prefixed code blocks!<br />
:::::::::Putting the choice of color aside, if the above idea of a standalone prompt template isn't welcome, I think my second choice would be to make two [[Template:pbc]] and [[Template:phc]] that work like {{ic|<nowiki>{{pbc|$|ls}}</nowiki>}} and {{ic|<nowiki>{{phc|$|ls|...}}</nowiki>}}, with the style rule to use them only in case of complex prompts. I'd still derive them from bc/hc to inherit any changes that we'd decide to make to them, and avoid repeating that ugly &lt;pre> hack even more.<br />
:::::::::Otherwise I give up and accept the [[Template:Archiso]] that works like {{ic|<nowiki>{{Archiso|mount /dev/sdX1 /mnt}}</nowiki>}}, in the hope that one day we won't need an analogous "hc" version.<br />
:::::::::-- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 14:24, 17 September 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::::::::I can't say I really like the idea of {{ic|<nowiki>{{bc|{{Archiso}} mount /dev/sdX1 /mnt}}</nowiki>}} or {{ic|<nowiki>{{hc|{{ps|root@archiso #}} mount /dev/sdX1 /mnt}}</nowiki>}}. I'd prefer creating [[Template:pbc]] and [[Template:phc]].<br />
::::::::::I still don't get what's wrong with [[Template:Sandbox]]. It should just work:<br />
<br />
<pre<noinclude></noinclude> {{#if: code|style="margin-bottom: 0; border-bottom:none; padding-bottom:0.8em;"}}>prompt # command</pre<noinclude></noinclude>><noinclude><!-- The &lt;noinclude>&lt;/noinclude> hack is needed to allow wiki markup inside the pre tags; reference: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/wiki/mediawiki/118688#118688 --><br />
{{#if: code|<pre<noinclude></noinclude> style="margin-top: 0; border-top-style:dashed; padding-top: 0.8em;">code</pre<noinclude></noinclude>>}}<br />
<br />
:::::::::: -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 04:43, 18 September 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::::::::FWIW (and a bit of fun) I've fixed [[Template:Sandbox]], although I'm not sure if we really need that level of automation ^^ I stick to my position above, is there a third (or more) opinion? -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 15:48, 18 September 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::::::I think you like the [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Nl6720&diff=447834&oldid=447833 #800080] shade of purple, right? ;-) [[User:Lahwaacz|Lahwaacz]] ([[User talk:Lahwaacz|talk]]) 11:39, 21 September 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::::::::Yes, I do like that one :D but I think it would be too bright for this template. -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 11:52, 21 September 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::::::::Any news on this one? If not, I haven't seen this kind of issue or confusion occur since. -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 09:37, 31 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::::::::::I don't think I want to create such a template anymore, since it would require updating other installation related pages. To go back to your originally proposed options, I'm for explaining {{ic|/mnt}} early. -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 09:42, 4 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Buggy graphics driver ==<br />
<br />
Can there be a hint that nomodeset parameter could be used if the graphics driver is buggy (I've heard nouveau may be buggy sometimes)<br />
[[User:M.Srikanth|M.Srikanth]] ([[User talk:M.Srikanth|talk]]) 04:47, 12 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I would expect this to be mentioned in [[General_troubleshooting]]... -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 09:43, 31 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== GitLab blobs in Lynx ==<br />
<br />
Links to files (blobs) on gitlab.archlinux.org are not readable in Lynx (or any other console web browser); see https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab/-/issues/26567.<br />
<br />
Should the Installation guide link to raw files instead?<br />
<br />
-- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 12:29, 4 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Maybe you could ask svenstaro to add it to https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab/-/issues/232073... -- [[User:Lahwaacz|Lahwaacz]] ([[User talk:Lahwaacz|talk]]) 12:36, 4 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::It has been filed under [https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab/-/issues/232073#nice-to-have nice to have]. -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 17:19, 4 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::Instead of using raw links we should perhaps consider if we need links to gitlab at all. The guide has:<br />
:::* [https://gitlab.archlinux.org/mkinitcpio/mkinitcpio-archiso/blob/master/docs/README.bootparams README.bootparams]<br />
:::* <s>[https://gitlab.archlinux.org/archlinux/archiso/-/blob/master/configs/releng/airootfs/etc/systemd/network/20-ethernet.network Ethernet]</s><br />
:::* <s>[https://gitlab.archlinux.org/archlinux/archiso/-/blob/master/configs/releng/airootfs/etc/systemd/network/20-wlan.network WLAN]</s><br />
:::* <s>[https://gitlab.archlinux.org/archlinux/archiso/-/blob/master/configs/releng/airootfs/etc/systemd/network/20-wwan.network WWAN]</s><br />
:::* <s>[https://gitlab.archlinux.org/archlinux/archiso/-/blob/master/configs/releng/airootfs/etc/xdg/reflector/reflector.conf reflector.conf]</s><br />
:::* <s>[https://gitlab.archlinux.org/archlinux/archiso/-/blob/master/configs/releng/packages.x86_64 packages.x86_64]</s><br />
:::Notice how all but one of these share the common path [https://gitlab.archlinux.org/archlinux/archiso/-/blob/master/configs/releng archiso/-/blob/master/configs/releng]. Unless this level of specificity is really required, we could link to this path "for an overview of configuration files shipped with archiso" instead. -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 09:35, 31 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::I'd prefer simply removing some of the links.<br />
::::* [https://gitlab.archlinux.org/archlinux/archiso/-/blob/master/configs/releng/airootfs/etc/systemd/network/20-ethernet.network Ethernet], [https://gitlab.archlinux.org/archlinux/archiso/-/blob/master/configs/releng/airootfs/etc/systemd/network/20-wlan.network WLAN] and [https://gitlab.archlinux.org/archlinux/archiso/-/blob/master/configs/releng/airootfs/etc/systemd/network/20-wwan.network WWAN] don't provide much value here, so they can be moved to [[systemd-networkd#Configuration examples]].<br />
::::* [https://gitlab.archlinux.org/archlinux/archiso/-/blob/master/configs/releng/airootfs/etc/xdg/reflector/reflector.conf reflector.conf] is there just for citation purposes. The [[reflector]] article already explains how the software works.<br />
:::: -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 09:30, 4 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::: Alright, I've removed those links. ([[Special:Diff/700696]], [[Special:Diff/700693]]) -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 11:39, 4 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::: Now that mirrors provide a symlink to the latest ISO version, it's possible to link to {{ic|pkglist.x86_64.txt}}. [[Special:Diff/730318|I replaced packages.x86_64 with it]]. -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 07:31, 21 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Is Lynx (un)readability such a big problem in this case? People using Lynx from the archiso can open up the relevant file in the live system itself... — [[User:Lahwaacz|Lahwaacz]] ([[User talk:Lahwaacz|talk]]) 18:05, 31 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Post-installation ==<br />
<br />
I skipped steps in the guide so I faced a weird crash in gnome without any explanations. I suggest a note.<br />
<br />
{{Note|Many of them assume that you have your timezone or locales set up. Make sure you have followed all the steps.}}<br />
<br />
[[User:Escope|Escope]] ([[User talk:Escope|talk]]) 10:11, 2 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:The reader is supposed to follow all the steps. If we apply that to other pages, the pages need a boatload of notes to make sure the reader did not skip any steps. A common functional system has properly configured locales and timezones.<br />
:Since this is GNOME-specific however I would at most add a section into [[GNOME/Troubleshooting]] or even [[General troubleshooting]], but I still think this is out of scope to be honest. Many applications may not work properly when the timezones or locales are not correctly configured.<br />
:-- [[User:NetSysFire|NetSysFire]] ([[User talk:NetSysFire|talk]]) 15:30, 2 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::The reader is not supposed to follow all the steps in case one doesn't worthy of attention. In my humble opinion, that's why it has huge advantage over the "Next-Next-Finish" approach. Unconfigured locales or timezones are obvious to many people, but my inexperience made me spend some time to sorting out. The other pages are highly deep and clear about the steps and why they are needed, my eyes enjoy such notes, pages are boatloaded already and I like it a lot =D. Thank you for your attention to this little change.<br />
<br />
::-- [[User:Escope|Escope]] ([[User talk:Escope|talk]]) 00:23, 3 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::If you're inexperienced, what makes you think you can judge if a step is necessary or not? You thought you knew better than the people that wrote the guide and found out that you didn't. Not something that needs changed here IMO.<br />
:::[[User:Scimmia|Scimmia]] ([[User talk:Scimmia|talk]]) 01:57, 3 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::The ArchWiki should also be about the why-aspect. I am in favor of adding e.g a note about why they are needed and why some applications may crash or behave strangely without properly configured timezones/locales. If you know e.g a nice blog post about this topic, why not add something like this?<br />
:::{{Note|Some applications may behave in strange ways or even crash when the timezones and/or locales are not properly configured. See [https://xkcd.com/1084/ this informative blog post] to know why that is.}}<br />
:::The note needs obviously some rewording, but something like this would fit in well in my opinion.<br />
:::-- [[User:NetSysFire|NetSysFire]] ([[User talk:NetSysFire|talk]]) 02:02, 3 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::Adding a '''brief''' "why" would be ok, but using [[Template:Note]] would be too much. I've also always wanted to emphasize the "and" in [[Installation guide#Localization]], since it's easy to miss (even some of the translated installation guides do not mention {{ic|en_US.UTF-8 UTF-8}}). --- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 08:48, 3 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::People who want to know the "why" can already consult the relevant articles. That said, consistency is lacking: some sections explain in detail why a step should be performed (such as [[Installation_guide#Verify_signature]]), whereas [[Installation_guide#Configure_the_system]] is mostly a checklist of steps with brief instructions how. The solution isn't obvious: adding notes all over would likely more distract than clarify. -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 19:41, 14 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::::I'm definitely apposed to adding notes, but I don't see why we couldn't add brief "why"s without them. -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 06:55, 15 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Add link to ALSA firmware in the Install essentials packages section ==<br />
<br />
With sof-firmware gaining more and more traction on newer systems it might be useful to add a link or piece of information that this might be necessary for newer laptops/cards, see [[Advanced_Linux_Sound_Architecture#ALSA_firmware]]. We currently get pretty much daily reports on the BBS where someone wonders where their sound card has gone. I know this is "technically" included in the "install additional firmware not included in linux-firmware" line, but since this is something that hasn't really been necessary for years this is potentially something not everyone is immediately aware of. [[User:V1del|V1del]] ([[User talk:V1del|talk]]) 17:15, 13 August 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Even with a link to [[Advanced_Linux_Sound_Architecture#ALSA_firmware]], it might be confusing that it applies based on the hardware, even when the user wants to use [[PulseAudio]] or [[Pipewire]]. Is there a better place where audio firmware could be described? — [[User:Lahwaacz|Lahwaacz]] ([[User talk:Lahwaacz|talk]]) 20:00, 13 August 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::I tried to have some sort of "standardized" snippet on laptop pages when it needs ALSA firmware, but the ArchWiki is not a hardware db and we cannot document all pieces of hardware. Audio is not essential for some users but a few depend on screenreaders, which is crucial to accessibility.<br />
::In the end it might not cause harm to install sof-firmware when in doubt.<br />
::-- [[User:NetSysFire|NetSysFire]] ([[User talk:NetSysFire|talk]]) 01:17, 14 August 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::I mean if we cover firmware in e.g. [[Sound system]] and link to that instead of ALSA, it would seem much more general. — [[User:Lahwaacz|Lahwaacz]] ([[User talk:Lahwaacz|talk]]) 06:19, 14 August 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::Well for this particular case you can fairly easily identify whether you have a need for sof-firmware with an {{ic|<nowiki>lsmod | grep snd_sof</nowiki>}} or a {{ic|<nowiki>dmesg | grep -i sof</nowiki>}}, but yes might be helpful to move that somewhere else if we want to ensure to have hardware based separation here. [[User:V1del|V1del]] ([[User talk:V1del|talk]]) 12:04, 14 August 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::I [[Special:Diff/692787|added]] {{Pkg|sof-firmware}} as an example (and the aforementioned link) so that there's at least something for now. -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 10:20, 25 August 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Add a check for "native sector size" before/during partitioning step ==<br />
<s>Some pages like [[Solid state drive]] are nearly impossible to get to from just following the Installation Guide. This is problematic as some recommendations from these pages are only relevant '''before''' installation, as it is too late afterwards (notably for setting native sector size as in [[Solid state drive#Native sector size]]. I believe there should be a note in the partitioning step, something like modifying this line: <br />
* If you want to create any stacked block devices for [[LVM]], [[dm-crypt|system encryption]] or [[RAID]], do it now.<br />
to <br />
* If you want to create any stacked block devices for [[LVM]], [[dm-crypt|system encryption]] or [[RAID]], do it now. Also check [[Improving performance#Partitioning]] or [[Solid state drive]] for storage device specific information.<br />
As an alternative, this could be added to [[Partitioning]], but it's already quite big...<br />
-- [[User:Cvlc|Cvlc]] ([[User talk:Cvlc|talk]]) 15:47, 29 August 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Linking both [[Improving_performance#Partitioning]] (which needs improvements) and [[Solid state drive]] seems excessive. Also, it's unclear if the improvement is tangible enough to make users work through yet another wiki article for their basic setup. -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 09:28, 31 October 2021 (UTC)</s><br />
:: An alternative could be to add :<br />
:: {{Tip|Check that your disk reports the correct [[Solid_state_drive#Native_sector_size|sector size]]}}<br />
::at the beginning of partitioning. It's an important optimization step and currently not addressed. On a brand new nvme SSD, strictly following the wiki, I ended up with a wrongly set up LUKS volume because the drive reports 512 byte sectors as the active option, and I only found out after installing.<br />
<br />
::-- [[User:Cvlc|Cvlc]] ([[User talk:Cvlc|talk]]) 16:15, 23 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::Seeing as the "native sector size" is the only issue that can't be simply fixed after the fact (unlike e.g. TRIM), it should be fine to link it (after [[Talk:Advanced Format#Rewrite Advanced Format to a new Sector Sizes page]] is done). As for linking to [[Solid state drive]] in general, IMHO there's no need. It's already linked from [[General recommendations#Solid state drives]]. -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 09:53, 25 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::: Agreed, the sector size issue was the one that really bothered me. I corrected the title. <br />
::: -- [[User:Cvlc|Cvlc]] ([[User talk:Cvlc|talk]]) 11:05, 25 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::: Now that [[Talk:Advanced Format#Rewrite Advanced Format to a new Sector Sizes page]] is done, I suggest adding <br />
:::: {{Tip|Check that your disk reports the correct [[Advanced Format | sector size]]}}<br />
:::: before the partitioning step<br />
:::: -- [[User:Cvlc|Cvlc]] ([[User talk:Cvlc|talk]]) 03:42, 4 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::As I already mentioned, there's a lot of steps involved in that article for unknown gains. Presumably, most people will think it's a requirement (due to the general nature of the article) even when formatted as a tip. Only [[Advanced_Format#Alignment]] is straightforward and already handled by [[fdisk]]. -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 09:51, 9 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
:::: It's true that it's not a very simple article, but it's actually not that bad since people will skip to either HDDs or SSDs sections which are much more to the point. What do you think would be a better way to address this? formatting the disk to the correct sector size cannot be done at a later point in time. Again, all of this stems from the fact that it happened to me, and it's going to happen to anyone with a similar setup (most hardware with recent SSDs). What if I try simplifying the Advanced format article further ? --[[User:Cvlc|Cvlc]] ([[User talk:Cvlc|talk]]) 20:43, 9 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
:::: Perhaps something like "Tip: adjusting the storage device's sector size before partitioning it might be beneficial for performance." [[User:Neven|Neven]] ([[User talk:Neven|talk]]) 00:20, 6 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::I'd omit the "for performance" part, since such claims would need references. And since not every drive can change its logical sector size, IMHO it would be better to explicitly mention to who the tip applies to. From what I understand, that would be a large part of NVMe drives and some "enterprise" SATA HDDs. Despite what [[Advanced Format]] says, I couldn't find anything about SATA SSDs that support changing their sector size.<br />
::::: -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 13:18, 6 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Remove parted ==<br />
<br />
Due to parted [[Advanced Format#Partition alignment|not aligning the partition size]] (and with no patch in sight) which prevents using 4096 byte sectors with dm-crypt/LUKS unless explicitly planned before, I'd like to remove the "[[parted]]" link from [[Installation guide#Partition the disks]]. An alternative would be to change all examples in [[Parted]] to not use percentages and warn against using them. -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 07:21, 7 April 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I prefer to change the examples in [[Parted]]. Just removing the link from installation guide won't stop people from using the tool. -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 10:52, 7 April 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Note on Network Setup ==<br />
<br />
One of the most common installation issues that comes up on Reddit, Forums, and other discussion areas is not having done any sort of network setup. While the Installation Guide explicitly call out Network Setup as a required step, I suspect people are mistakenly believing the setup steps they did already to establish a connection on the installer will carry over to their installed system. <br />
<br />
I propose adding a note such as (example content):<br />
<br />
{{Note| Configuring your network connection above only established your network for the installer. This section will configure the network for your installed Arch system. Failure to do so may leave you without network access after completing installation.}} [[User:Nalthien|Nalthien]] ([[User talk:Nalthien|talk]]) 17:40, 15 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Such a thing [[Help:Style#Notes, Warnings, Tips|does not warrant a warning]] since there's nothing dangerous about being offline. It may even be the safest state the system will ever be. -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 10:24, 18 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:: I can agree that it doesn't warrant a Warning given the style guide; however, I do think a Note would be appropriate to "highlight information easily overlooked." It's clearly overlooked quite often. [[User:Nalthien|Nalthien]] ([[User talk:Nalthien|talk]]) 17:36, 20 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:[[Installation guide#Connect to the internet]] already explains (or tries to, at least) that the live environment's network setup has nothing to do with the installed system. Perhaps the list items in [[Installation guide#Install essential packages]] could be made a little more verbose to explain '''why''' someone may want to install those things. -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 10:24, 18 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Clarify root mount ==<br />
<br />
Without having perused history, I suggest to change [[Installation guide#Mount the file systems]] slightly from<br />
:Create any remaining mount points (such as {{ic|/mnt/efi}}) and mount their corresponding volumes. <br />
to<br />
:After the root volume is mounted, create any remaining mount points (such as {{ic|/mnt/efi}}) and mount their corresponding volumes.<br />
an alternative may be to add to the following tip (e.g. "Alternatively, create it using mkdir(1) beforehand, but only after mounting the root volume.")<br />
<br />
Reason: lsblk will happily show a {{ic|/mnt/boot}}, even if it was mounted too early, potentially messing up ''pacstrap'' and ''genfstab''. It will work, if {{ic|/mnt/boot}} is mounted twice (once before and after root), but it is simpler to explicitly address mount order.<br />
<br />
--[[User:Indigo|Indigo]] ([[User talk:Indigo|talk]]) 17:01, 2 June 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:As the previous instruction is "Mount the root volume...", this seems pretty redundant. [[User:Scimmia|Scimmia]] ([[User talk:Scimmia|talk]]) 18:14, 2 June 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Frankly, I don't remember how the ISO behaves regarding pkg-cache: Will a repeated ''pacstrap'' download updates again? --[[User:Indigo|Indigo]] ([[User talk:Indigo|talk]]) 19:29, 2 June 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::{{man|8|pacstrap}} uses the target's package cache by default. If the target was correct, then there will be no re-downloading on repeated runs. -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]])<br />
<br />
::::Ok, thanks. --[[User:Indigo|Indigo]] ([[User talk:Indigo|talk]]) 19:00, 3 June 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::I think all the confusion comes from new users not understanding the hierarchical structure. How about something like : "Create any remaining mount points (such as {{ic|/mnt/efi}}) and mount their corresponding volumes in a hierarchical order." -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 07:27, 3 June 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::That's clearer for the rest, yes. I'd make that suggestion "Create any remaining mount points (such as {{ic|/mnt/efi}}) and mount the volumes in their corresponding hierarchical order."<br />
:::Regarding the root mount, I do understand the resentment to deviate from the established and proven form, fine.<br />
:::This escapes the topic a little, but perhaps a catch-all procedural sentence is what it needs instead. For example, to the third intro paragraph: "This guide is deliberately kept concise and you are advised to follow the instructions in the presented order per section. For more detailed instructions, see the respective ArchWiki article or the various programs' man pages, both linked from this guide.".<br />
:::--[[User:Indigo|Indigo]] ([[User talk:Indigo|talk]]) 19:00, 3 June 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::Yes, "their corresponding hierarchical order" sounds a lot better.<br />
::::I don't think the resistance to change is that bad. :) We could alter the root mount text if there's some consensus about it.<br />
::::IMHO "deliberately kept concise" gives off a negative connotation. I can't think of any better suggestions at the moment, though.<br />
:::: -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 11:17, 4 June 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::How about "intentionally concise and you are advised ..."? --[[User:Indigo|Indigo]] ([[User talk:Indigo|talk]]) 15:38, 8 June 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::::That sounds better to me. 👍 -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 05:11, 9 June 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::::Or since "intentionally concise" is not concise, "This guide is kept concise and ..." :) -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 13:10, 12 June 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::::::Ok. To summarise, we'd add:<br />
::::::::"This guide is kept concise and you are advised to follow the instructions in the presented order per section." to start the third para intro,<br />
::::::::and change corresponding sentence in [[Installation guide#Mount the file systems]] to<br />
::::::::"Create any remaining mount points (such as {{ic|/mnt/efi}}) and mount the volumes in their corresponding hierarchical order."<br />
::::::::if no further objections arise.<br />
::::::::--[[User:Indigo|Indigo]] ([[User talk:Indigo|talk]]) 16:54, 15 June 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::::::A month has passed with no objections. I think you can update the page now :) -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 13:56, 15 July 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Partitioning tools ==<br />
<br />
Is there any reason gdisk is not listed as an option? If we include parted, despite problems with alignment, I don't see why gdisk is excluded. The wiki page for fdisk actually suggests gdisk as an alternative. I'm probably not the only one who learnt to use gdisk for GPT and it is nice to use a familiar tool if there's no reason not to. But I don't want to add it if it's omitted for a reason. --[[User:Margali|cfr]] ([[User talk:Margali|talk]]) 01:29, 20 August 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:[[fdisk]] linking to [[gdisk]] is the result of a [[Special:Permalink/568741#Example layouts section|previous discussion]] about this.<br />
:Personally, I agree that [[Installation guide#Partition the disks]] should mention [[gdisk]]. My suggestion would be: "Use [[fdisk]], [[parted]] or [[gdisk]] (GPT only) to modify partition tables".<br />
: -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 10:16, 20 August 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::By the same argument, we should then mention cfdisk, cgdisk and any other partition tools. As such I'd suggest the following instead: "Use a [[Partitioning#Partitioning_tools|partitioning tool]] like [[fdisk]] or [[parted]] to modify partition tables". -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 13:32, 24 August 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::Your suggestion is better than the current text at least. -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 08:44, 25 August 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::In the end the situation is quite similar to the one for boot loaders and network managers. I wouldn't mind listing more alternatives (or even tables) in the installation guide, but then the reasoning has to be applied equally to other sections. -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 15:08, 25 August 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::I hope it's nothing like [[Partitioning#Partitioning tools|this sorry excuse for a table]].<br />
:::::The thing with partitioning tools, compared to e.g. network managers, is that there are not that many of them. There's basically just fdisk, gdisk and parted. fdisk & gdisk additionally have scriptable and text user interfaces. And there are GUI ones based on parted.<br />
:::::I'd say let's go with your suggested text for now. We'll get to the greater goal eventually :D<br />
::::: -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 15:22, 25 August 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::::The table in [[Partitioning#Partitioning tools]] got better, so IMHO it should be fine to link to it now. -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 16:04, 28 August 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::::The "old" beginners' guide had a similar table included: [[User:Alad/Beginners'_guide#Partition_the_devices]]. Considering the small size, it could make sense to include the one from [[Partitioning#Partitioning tools]] in the installation guide directly. The downside is the GUI wrappers don't apply to the live environment. -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 16:36, 28 August 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::::::If there's a problem with parted not aligning, it strikes me as perverse to mention fdisk and parted by name, but nothing else. Surely the example tools should be ones which don't need special warnings (if at all possible)? Maybe fdisk should be the only example? (Unless it has changed, gdisk isn't on the ISO, so that's a good reason not to pick it out, but steering people away from parted seems warranted if it is problematic.) --[[User:Margali|cfr]] ([[User talk:Margali|talk]]) 03:13, 30 October 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Consider adding link to Ext4 ==<br />
<br />
In '''Section 1.10 - Format the partitions''', consider adding a link to '''Ext4''' article (https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Ext4).<br />
<br />
The reason is simple - that's what I wanted and expected to be there, but it wasn't, and so I had to google it.<br />
<br />
One deeper reason is that for a beginner, the fact that the "recommended" file system for root partition is called '''Ext4''', might not be intuitive, and it might provoke questions like "Why ext4? What is it? What are the alternatives?".<br />
<br />
[[User:Green Day|Green Day]] ([[User talk:Green Day|talk]]) 20:00, 8 October 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:There is no ''recommended'' file system for root. The section already has a link to [[File systems]], you can find Ext4 there. — [[User:Lahwaacz|Lahwaacz]] ([[User talk:Lahwaacz|talk]]) 08:18, 9 October 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::If we leave out the deeper discussion on what's recommended or not, I'd say nothing speaks against replacing ''ext4'' with [[ext4]] in the installation guide. -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 15:32, 25 October 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== <s>Add alternative ways to configure the new system</s> ==<br />
<br />
There are things like [[systemd-firstboot]] that can serve as alternative ways of configuring the newly-installed system. Those can be linked to in a proper point of [[Installation_guide#Configure_the_system]].<br />
<br />
[[User:YHNdnzj|YHNdnzj]] ([[User talk:YHNdnzj|talk]]) 13:17, 25 October 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:[[systemd-firstboot]] is already in [[:Category:Installation_process]], linked from the first paragraph of the guide. -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 15:30, 25 October 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Missing pacman-key steps ? ==<br />
<br />
I just tried (using archlinux-2022.11.01-x86_64.iso) the standard archlinux installation (pacstrap) following the guide,<br />
and once the packages were downloaded, they failed to install with errors like:<br />
* "signature from <maintainer> is unknown trust"<br />
<br />
I found on the web the following commands to solve the issue: (https://bbs.archlinux32.org/viewtopic.php?id=2900)<br />
* pacman-key --init<br />
* pacman-key --populate archlinux<br />
<br />
After those two commands, the pacstrap installation works fine.<br />
<br />
If those two commands are needed, shouldn't we document them in the Installation guide ?<br />
<br />
(note that the same problem/solution is applicable to archinstall method too)<br />
<br />
{{Unsigned|23:02, 3 November 2022 (UTC)|Nsauzede}}<br />
<br />
:This is already done by pacman-init.service. [[User:Scimmia|Scimmia]] ([[User talk:Scimmia|talk]]) 23:38, 3 November 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I hit the exact same problem with same installation iso. I got the solution from https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Pacman/Package_signing<br />
:{{Unsigned|2022-12-02T07:53:41|Roblaing}}<br />
<br />
== <s>Root partition label</s> ==<br />
<br />
I've found a gap exists between this page and the various bootloader install pages. The various bootloader install pages mostly seem to assume that the root partition has a label. From a quick scan, I'm pretty sure the [[EFISTUB]] page uses the label "Arch Linux", [[GRUB]] uses "archroot", [[REFInd]] uses "Arch Linux", [[Syslinux]] uses "arch", [[systemd-boot]] uses "arch_os", and [[LILO]] uses "Arch". Personally, I went through the systemd-boot instructions and had to search an error message on the internet when it tried to boot and couldn't find the partition with label "arch_os" (since I had never been instructed to label the partition prior to that point). If people agree this gap should be closed then I suggest (and will implement) the following:<br />
<br />
# Standardize the example label names among the various bootloader install pages (open to suggestions here but beware bikeshedding: doesn't matter too much as long as they're the same)<br />
# Add links to [[Persistent_block_device_naming#by-label]] on the various bootloader install pages where appropriate<br />
# Change the {{ic|mkfs.ext4 /dev/root_partition}} example command on this page to {{ic|mkfs.ext4 /dev/root_partition -L $standardized_label_name}}<br />
<br />
It doesn't seem as though I have permissions to edit this page directly so I am posting here. Thoughts?<br />
<br />
[[User:Andrew Helwer|Andrew Helwer]] ([[User talk:Andrew Helwer|talk]])<br />
<br />
:I never heard about issues with labels or experienced them myself using Syslinux, systemd-boot or GRUB. Likely this is an error in the (unspecified) configuration you used instead. -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 16:18, 25 November 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:"[[EFISTUB]] page uses the label "Arch Linux"" No, it doesn't.<br />
:"[[REFInd]] uses "Arch Linux"" No, it doesn't.<br />
:"[[Syslinux]] uses "arch"" No, it doesn't.<br />
:"[[LILO]] uses "Arch"" No, it doesn't.<br />
:Grub and systemd-boot have examples that include a filesystem label, but it's made clear that it's a placeholder and you need to use the label you assigned.<br />
:[[User:Scimmia|Scimmia]] ([[User talk:Scimmia|talk]]) 16:26, 25 November 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::I guess that explains the confusion, closing. -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 16:32, 25 November 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::The OP missed that there is a difference between a partition label and a "menu label". — [[User:Lahwaacz|Lahwaacz]] ([[User talk:Lahwaacz|talk]]) 18:28, 25 November 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::Ah you are correct, my bad - I was trying to interpret the various bootloader pages without going through the installation process of each and did not make that distinction. Perhaps I will just look at the systemd-boot page to see whether that example arch.conf loader section can be clarified a bit. If not, no great trouble - the problem was easy enough to diagnose & rectify when it happened. Just want to avoid people getting demoralized when the first reboot doesn't work. [[User:Andrew Helwer|Andrew Helwer]] ([[User talk:Andrew Helwer|talk]])<br />
<br />
== Microcode ==<br />
<br />
Should microcode not be mentioned at some point? Right now it is buried in 'General Recommendations' with details via a further link, but it is surely more important than that suggests. If all users of Intel and AMD CPUs need it 'to ensure system stability' as the Microcode page says, it should be mentioned here. This is especially true since it naturally goes along with installing the kernel and configuring the bootloader. Otherwise, the bootloader config just has to be done again. I was sure it had a more prominent mention but either I've forgotten or it has been relegated. --[[User:Margali|cfr]] ([[User talk:Margali|talk]]) 04:53, 10 December 2022 (UTC)</div>Margalihttps://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Talk:Installation_guide&diff=759532Talk:Installation guide2022-12-10T04:53:48Z<p>Margali: /* Microcode */ new section</p>
<hr />
<div>== Read this first before adding new suggestions ==<br />
<br />
* systemd tools such as ''hostnamectl'', ''timedatectl'' and ''localectl'' [https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/798#issuecomment-126568596 do not work] in the installation chroot environment, so please do not propose to use them in the guide unless you can prove that they have been made to work also in that case. See [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Talk:Beginners%27_guide&oldid=388727#General_problems], [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Talk:Beginners%27_guide&oldid=404695#Replace_commands_with_their_systemd_equivalents], [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Talk:Beginners%27_guide&oldid=418662#Utilizing_systemd_tools] and [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Talk:Installation_guide&oldid=434985#change_configuration_system_from_old_way_to_new_way.28using_systemd_commands.29] for some past discussions about this issue.<br />
* {{ic|localectl list-keymaps}} does not work due to bug {{Bug|46725}}. For the chosen replacement command, see [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Talk:Beginners%27_guide&oldid=435044#localectl].<br />
* Due to the wide variety of available boot loaders, the installation guide refers to [[Arch_boot_process#Boot_loader]] instead of making a specific recommendation for the installed system. See [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Talk:Installation_guide&oldid=687325#Bootloader], [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Talk:Installation_guide&oldid=690612#Make_the_Boot_Loader_Section_slightly_more_detailed_to_provide_a_high_level_overview_for_new_users], [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Talk:Installation_guide&oldid=678949#Expand_Boot_loader_section], [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Talk:Installation_guide&oldid=660151#Expand_Boot_loader_section_to_include_example_commands], [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Talk:Installation_guide&oldid=581427#Boot_loader_installation] for some past discussions on this topic.<br />
* While [[:Category:Installation process]] lists additional installation methods (e.g. [[archinstall]] or [[systemd-firstboot]]), the installation guide does not reference them due to their specific nature. [[Install_Arch_Linux_with_accessibility_options]] is an exception. See [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Talk:Installation_guide&oldid=698307#Point_out_archinstall] for past discussion on this topic.<br />
-- [[ArchWiki:Administrators|The ArchWiki Administrators]] 22:17, 2 September 2016 (UTC)<br />
__TOC__<br />
<br />
== Link to the German version ==<br />
<br />
Instead of [[de:Arch Install Scripts]] you could choose [[de:Anleitung für Einsteiger]] it means "Beginner's Guid" and is a very <br />
detailed artikel for very new arch users and the future experts.<br />
<br />
:Thank you, [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Installation_guide&type=revision&diff=509961&oldid=508505 done]. -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 16:31, 6 February 2018 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::This was already proposed last year and rejected: [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Talk:Installation_guide&oldid=466950#Suggesting_different_page_for_German_translation]. I don't see what has changed since then. If someone adds me as admin to the german wiki or changes the protection settings, I can update [[de:Arch Install Scripts]] as required. -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 18:13, 6 February 2018 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::I see, I didn't remember that discussion so I've reverted the change, hopefully you'll make it to update the translation, let's leave this open until the problem is solved, otherwise this kind of suggestion will keep appearing recurrently. -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 17:53, 7 February 2018 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::Apparently since last year the translation has been halved in size, but its scope is still much larger than the [[Install guide]] (or even the old [[Beginners' guide]]). -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 09:42, 9 May 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== HiDPI on the console ==<br />
<br />
With an ever increasing number of [[HiDPI]] displays, including at the begging of the article a section about adjusting the scaling factor or changing the font can be helpful, see [[HiDPI#Linux_console]]. [[User:Goetzc|Goetzc]] ([[User talk:Goetzc|talk]]) 02:21, 8 August 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:It could be added as an example for {{ic|setfont}} in [[Installation_guide#Set_the_keyboard_layout]]. The issue I have is that [[HiDPI#Linux_console]] mentions that {{ic|tty2-6}} may be unusable, while the Installation guide specifically instructs to change ttys as required in [[Installation_guide#Boot_the_live_environment]]. -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 13:07, 7 September 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::May be as an example for the line "See README.bootparams for a list of boot parameters" [[Installation_guide#Boot_the_live_environment]], it could be specified to hit {{ic|e}} button to edit the boot entry and add the following parameters to the boot line, like {{ic|1=video=1920x1080}} if you have HiDPI display. -- [[User:Xzorg6|Xzorg6]] ([[User talk:Xzorg6|talk]]) 22:41, 15 December 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::{{ic|1=video=}} will just change the resolution. To get a bigger font on the console, you need {{ic|1=CONFIG_FONT_TER16x32=y}} in the kernel config and {{ic|1=fbcon=font:TER16x32}} in the kernel command line. Since the official kernels don't enable {{ic|CONFIG_FONT_TER16x32}}, someone will need to open a bug report asking for it. After that, the instructions for setting the {{ic|1=fbcon=font:TER16x32}} [[kernel parameter]] could be added to the wiki. -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 06:52, 16 December 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::{{Pkg|linux}} 5.5.6.arch1-1 <s>(currently in testing)</s> has {{ic|1=CONFIG_FONT_TER16x32=y}} ({{Bug|64861}}). <s>If if gets move to core before March, then</s> the March iso will have it. It's probably a good idea to start drafting a [[Template:Tip|tip]] to place in [[Installation guide#Boot the live environment]]. -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 11:12, 26 February 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::And just after I wrote this, the package was moved to core. -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 11:27, 26 February 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::I'm seeing multiple claims[https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=253319][https://www.reddit.com/r/archlinux/comments/fbi4vx/text_size_during_boot_changed_since_my_last/][https://www.reddit.com/r/archlinux/comments/fgct3t/how_to_get_currently_loaded_console_font_of_the/] that people with HiDPI screens are getting the TER16x32 font. I was not aware that the kernel chooses a font depending on screen size. Can anyone confirm that this really is the case? If it really works that way and unless {{Bug|65680}} messes this up, then there's nothing to add to the Installation guide about this topic. -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 06:02, 11 March 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::::As per https://lore.kernel.org/lkml/20190618203425.10723-4-tiwai@suse.de/ the decision to use ter16x32 is not based on screen size but only resolution.So even though a 1080p screen may be hidpi it does not use ter16x32 [[User:M.Srikanth|M.Srikanth]] ([[User talk:M.Srikanth|talk]]) 10:17, 11 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::::At least that part is now clear, thanks. The first step should be to get [[HiDPI#Linux console]] up to date. After that, as I've said before, a tip for the installation guide can be drafted. -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 11:04, 11 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::::: I fixed the page and removed the template [[User:M.Srikanth|M.Srikanth]] ([[User talk:M.Srikanth|talk]]) 12:25, 11 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== First mention of /mnt in example partition layout ==<br />
<br />
{{ic|/mnt}} is mentioned at mount point in [[Installation_guide#Partition_the_disks]], while {{ic|/mnt}} is made explicit two sections later in [[Installation_guide#Mount_the_file_systems]]. As I recall it, this was changed because some users blindly copy pasted commands and mounted /boot on the live system, instead of /mnt/boot. Some options:<br />
<br />
* Introduce another column describing the mount point on the installed system. <br />
* Actually explain /mnt early.<br />
* Revert the "mount point" to not include /mnt.<br />
<br />
-- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 13:03, 7 September 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I don't understand what's the actual problem here... -- [[User:Lahwaacz|Lahwaacz]] ([[User talk:Lahwaacz|talk]]) 09:36, 8 September 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::From what I read on [[ArchWiki:IRC|#archlinux-wiki]], this comes from https://www.reddit.com/r/archlinux/comments/d0v0j3/is_it_just_me_or_is_the_prospect_of_installing/ where the user was confused by the lack of root mountpoint (i.e. {{ic|/mnt}} vs {{ic|/}}). A question could be raised, if we should concern ourselves with users who have strong opinions about the wiki content yet can't be bothered to propose improvements in the talk pages...<br />
::About Alad's proposed options: I disagree with the first option, I think it will just complicate things even further. I support the third option and maybe adjusting the column header like in [[Special:Diff/581800]].<br />
::I'd actually would like to go even further and change the commands run from outside chroot to be visually distinct, e.g.: {{bc|1=<span style="color: #ff0000;">root@archiso #</span> mount /dev/sd''X1'' /mnt}}<br />
::I think it would better solve the underlying issue. <br />
:: -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 15:26, 8 September 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::I'm not overly fond of the longer column name. For the last proposed option, I may agree if this is formalized in [[Help:Style]], so that it is not specfic to the [[Installation guide]]. -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 11:20, 10 September 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::Adding it [[Help:Style]] was my intention, since other articles, too, will need to use that style for some commands. I'm thinking of creating a template for it: [[Special:Permalink/581945]]. -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 10:19, 11 September 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::Sounds good to me, I'd just prefer the regular (non-bold) font for the prompt as above. -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 21:54, 13 September 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::::[[Special:Permalink/582327]]. Are there any other opinions about creating such a template? Or should I take this discussion to [[Help talk:Template]] per [[Help:Template#Creation]]? -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 18:31, 14 September 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::::# How are you going to call the template? This template would probably add to the [[Help:Template#Code formatting templates]] series, should it be named in a consistent fashion?<br />
:::::::# Should this template support custom prompts, and if so, should it be called "pc" (from "(custom) prompted" code)?<br />
:::::::# I don't like the red color too much, if bold is not an option maybe we can go green|purple|blue, something that recalls less a warning of some kind? Or can we just leave it with the default font color? Or a slightly fainter black?<br />
:::::::# I haven't looked well into it, but maybe we can instead add an optional argument to [[Template:bc]] and [[Template:hc]] that prefixes a custom (colored) prompt? I wouldn't see a problem with repeating "root@archiso #" in every instance, or we may derive the new template from those two at that point.<br />
:::::::# The template should probably be derived from [[Template:bc]] in any case, for simpler code, see [[User:Kynikos/Template:Sandbox2]].<br />
:::::::-- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 17:36, 16 September 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::::::# Initially I was going to call it [[Template:Archiso]] since it would be [[Archiso]]-specific, but I'm starting to think that creating a more general-purpose template would be better. It could then be used in [[PostgreSQL]] and the {{ic|[postgres]$}} convention would get formalized in [[Help:Style]]. Now the issue is the {{ic|[user@peer-a]#}} in [[Template:hc]] used in [[WireGuard]]. I'd rather not create two new templates, but I'm having trouble getting [[Template:Sandbox]] to work :(<br />
::::::::# I like your "[[Template:pc]]" suggestion.<br />
::::::::# Be glad I didn't post my first draft that was ''slightly more'' colorful. From your offered colors, I'd choose purple.<br />
::::::::# I'd rather not mess with the established templates just for this change, so I'd prefer creating a new template.<br />
::::::::# I didn't even think about using [[Template:bc]]. Is it a good idea to do that? The new template might need to be updated if [[Template:bc]] is ever changed in an incompatible way.<br />
:::::::: -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 07:33, 17 September 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::::::Yeah, after viewing your attempts and looking into it myself, I think modifying bc/hc is out of discussion, it would add too much code/style for so little use.<br />
:::::::::Thinking about this again one day after, I feel I'm realizing that my concerns in general may descend from the fact that we're going to create a template to represent (block) code, even though we already have 2 which basically do the same thing, including allowing to include a prompt; the only addition of this "Archiso" or "pc" template would be the formatting around the prompt, so why not keep it simple (I know, "simplicity" is often subjective and controversial) and instead either make a [[Template:Archiso]] to be used like {{ic|<nowiki>{{bc|{{Archiso}} mount /dev/sdX1 /mnt}}</nowiki>}} or [[Template:ps]] (or [[Template:PS]]) to be used like {{ic|<nowiki>{{hc|{{ps|root@archiso #}} mount /dev/sdX1 /mnt}}</nowiki>}}? They also work with [[Template:hc]] and space-prefixed code blocks!<br />
:::::::::Putting the choice of color aside, if the above idea of a standalone prompt template isn't welcome, I think my second choice would be to make two [[Template:pbc]] and [[Template:phc]] that work like {{ic|<nowiki>{{pbc|$|ls}}</nowiki>}} and {{ic|<nowiki>{{phc|$|ls|...}}</nowiki>}}, with the style rule to use them only in case of complex prompts. I'd still derive them from bc/hc to inherit any changes that we'd decide to make to them, and avoid repeating that ugly &lt;pre> hack even more.<br />
:::::::::Otherwise I give up and accept the [[Template:Archiso]] that works like {{ic|<nowiki>{{Archiso|mount /dev/sdX1 /mnt}}</nowiki>}}, in the hope that one day we won't need an analogous "hc" version.<br />
:::::::::-- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 14:24, 17 September 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::::::::I can't say I really like the idea of {{ic|<nowiki>{{bc|{{Archiso}} mount /dev/sdX1 /mnt}}</nowiki>}} or {{ic|<nowiki>{{hc|{{ps|root@archiso #}} mount /dev/sdX1 /mnt}}</nowiki>}}. I'd prefer creating [[Template:pbc]] and [[Template:phc]].<br />
::::::::::I still don't get what's wrong with [[Template:Sandbox]]. It should just work:<br />
<br />
<pre<noinclude></noinclude> {{#if: code|style="margin-bottom: 0; border-bottom:none; padding-bottom:0.8em;"}}>prompt # command</pre<noinclude></noinclude>><noinclude><!-- The &lt;noinclude>&lt;/noinclude> hack is needed to allow wiki markup inside the pre tags; reference: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/wiki/mediawiki/118688#118688 --><br />
{{#if: code|<pre<noinclude></noinclude> style="margin-top: 0; border-top-style:dashed; padding-top: 0.8em;">code</pre<noinclude></noinclude>>}}<br />
<br />
:::::::::: -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 04:43, 18 September 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::::::::FWIW (and a bit of fun) I've fixed [[Template:Sandbox]], although I'm not sure if we really need that level of automation ^^ I stick to my position above, is there a third (or more) opinion? -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 15:48, 18 September 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::::::I think you like the [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Nl6720&diff=447834&oldid=447833 #800080] shade of purple, right? ;-) [[User:Lahwaacz|Lahwaacz]] ([[User talk:Lahwaacz|talk]]) 11:39, 21 September 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::::::::Yes, I do like that one :D but I think it would be too bright for this template. -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 11:52, 21 September 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::::::::Any news on this one? If not, I haven't seen this kind of issue or confusion occur since. -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 09:37, 31 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::::::::::I don't think I want to create such a template anymore, since it would require updating other installation related pages. To go back to your originally proposed options, I'm for explaining {{ic|/mnt}} early. -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 09:42, 4 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Buggy graphics driver ==<br />
<br />
Can there be a hint that nomodeset parameter could be used if the graphics driver is buggy (I've heard nouveau may be buggy sometimes)<br />
[[User:M.Srikanth|M.Srikanth]] ([[User talk:M.Srikanth|talk]]) 04:47, 12 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I would expect this to be mentioned in [[General_troubleshooting]]... -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 09:43, 31 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== GitLab blobs in Lynx ==<br />
<br />
Links to files (blobs) on gitlab.archlinux.org are not readable in Lynx (or any other console web browser); see https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab/-/issues/26567.<br />
<br />
Should the Installation guide link to raw files instead?<br />
<br />
-- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 12:29, 4 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Maybe you could ask svenstaro to add it to https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab/-/issues/232073... -- [[User:Lahwaacz|Lahwaacz]] ([[User talk:Lahwaacz|talk]]) 12:36, 4 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::It has been filed under [https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab/-/issues/232073#nice-to-have nice to have]. -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 17:19, 4 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::Instead of using raw links we should perhaps consider if we need links to gitlab at all. The guide has:<br />
:::* [https://gitlab.archlinux.org/mkinitcpio/mkinitcpio-archiso/blob/master/docs/README.bootparams README.bootparams]<br />
:::* <s>[https://gitlab.archlinux.org/archlinux/archiso/-/blob/master/configs/releng/airootfs/etc/systemd/network/20-ethernet.network Ethernet]</s><br />
:::* <s>[https://gitlab.archlinux.org/archlinux/archiso/-/blob/master/configs/releng/airootfs/etc/systemd/network/20-wlan.network WLAN]</s><br />
:::* <s>[https://gitlab.archlinux.org/archlinux/archiso/-/blob/master/configs/releng/airootfs/etc/systemd/network/20-wwan.network WWAN]</s><br />
:::* <s>[https://gitlab.archlinux.org/archlinux/archiso/-/blob/master/configs/releng/airootfs/etc/xdg/reflector/reflector.conf reflector.conf]</s><br />
:::* <s>[https://gitlab.archlinux.org/archlinux/archiso/-/blob/master/configs/releng/packages.x86_64 packages.x86_64]</s><br />
:::Notice how all but one of these share the common path [https://gitlab.archlinux.org/archlinux/archiso/-/blob/master/configs/releng archiso/-/blob/master/configs/releng]. Unless this level of specificity is really required, we could link to this path "for an overview of configuration files shipped with archiso" instead. -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 09:35, 31 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::I'd prefer simply removing some of the links.<br />
::::* [https://gitlab.archlinux.org/archlinux/archiso/-/blob/master/configs/releng/airootfs/etc/systemd/network/20-ethernet.network Ethernet], [https://gitlab.archlinux.org/archlinux/archiso/-/blob/master/configs/releng/airootfs/etc/systemd/network/20-wlan.network WLAN] and [https://gitlab.archlinux.org/archlinux/archiso/-/blob/master/configs/releng/airootfs/etc/systemd/network/20-wwan.network WWAN] don't provide much value here, so they can be moved to [[systemd-networkd#Configuration examples]].<br />
::::* [https://gitlab.archlinux.org/archlinux/archiso/-/blob/master/configs/releng/airootfs/etc/xdg/reflector/reflector.conf reflector.conf] is there just for citation purposes. The [[reflector]] article already explains how the software works.<br />
:::: -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 09:30, 4 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::: Alright, I've removed those links. ([[Special:Diff/700696]], [[Special:Diff/700693]]) -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 11:39, 4 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::: Now that mirrors provide a symlink to the latest ISO version, it's possible to link to {{ic|pkglist.x86_64.txt}}. [[Special:Diff/730318|I replaced packages.x86_64 with it]]. -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 07:31, 21 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Is Lynx (un)readability such a big problem in this case? People using Lynx from the archiso can open up the relevant file in the live system itself... — [[User:Lahwaacz|Lahwaacz]] ([[User talk:Lahwaacz|talk]]) 18:05, 31 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Post-installation ==<br />
<br />
I skipped steps in the guide so I faced a weird crash in gnome without any explanations. I suggest a note.<br />
<br />
{{Note|Many of them assume that you have your timezone or locales set up. Make sure you have followed all the steps.}}<br />
<br />
[[User:Escope|Escope]] ([[User talk:Escope|talk]]) 10:11, 2 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:The reader is supposed to follow all the steps. If we apply that to other pages, the pages need a boatload of notes to make sure the reader did not skip any steps. A common functional system has properly configured locales and timezones.<br />
:Since this is GNOME-specific however I would at most add a section into [[GNOME/Troubleshooting]] or even [[General troubleshooting]], but I still think this is out of scope to be honest. Many applications may not work properly when the timezones or locales are not correctly configured.<br />
:-- [[User:NetSysFire|NetSysFire]] ([[User talk:NetSysFire|talk]]) 15:30, 2 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::The reader is not supposed to follow all the steps in case one doesn't worthy of attention. In my humble opinion, that's why it has huge advantage over the "Next-Next-Finish" approach. Unconfigured locales or timezones are obvious to many people, but my inexperience made me spend some time to sorting out. The other pages are highly deep and clear about the steps and why they are needed, my eyes enjoy such notes, pages are boatloaded already and I like it a lot =D. Thank you for your attention to this little change.<br />
<br />
::-- [[User:Escope|Escope]] ([[User talk:Escope|talk]]) 00:23, 3 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::If you're inexperienced, what makes you think you can judge if a step is necessary or not? You thought you knew better than the people that wrote the guide and found out that you didn't. Not something that needs changed here IMO.<br />
:::[[User:Scimmia|Scimmia]] ([[User talk:Scimmia|talk]]) 01:57, 3 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::The ArchWiki should also be about the why-aspect. I am in favor of adding e.g a note about why they are needed and why some applications may crash or behave strangely without properly configured timezones/locales. If you know e.g a nice blog post about this topic, why not add something like this?<br />
:::{{Note|Some applications may behave in strange ways or even crash when the timezones and/or locales are not properly configured. See [https://xkcd.com/1084/ this informative blog post] to know why that is.}}<br />
:::The note needs obviously some rewording, but something like this would fit in well in my opinion.<br />
:::-- [[User:NetSysFire|NetSysFire]] ([[User talk:NetSysFire|talk]]) 02:02, 3 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::Adding a '''brief''' "why" would be ok, but using [[Template:Note]] would be too much. I've also always wanted to emphasize the "and" in [[Installation guide#Localization]], since it's easy to miss (even some of the translated installation guides do not mention {{ic|en_US.UTF-8 UTF-8}}). --- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 08:48, 3 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::People who want to know the "why" can already consult the relevant articles. That said, consistency is lacking: some sections explain in detail why a step should be performed (such as [[Installation_guide#Verify_signature]]), whereas [[Installation_guide#Configure_the_system]] is mostly a checklist of steps with brief instructions how. The solution isn't obvious: adding notes all over would likely more distract than clarify. -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 19:41, 14 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::::I'm definitely apposed to adding notes, but I don't see why we couldn't add brief "why"s without them. -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 06:55, 15 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Add link to ALSA firmware in the Install essentials packages section ==<br />
<br />
With sof-firmware gaining more and more traction on newer systems it might be useful to add a link or piece of information that this might be necessary for newer laptops/cards, see [[Advanced_Linux_Sound_Architecture#ALSA_firmware]]. We currently get pretty much daily reports on the BBS where someone wonders where their sound card has gone. I know this is "technically" included in the "install additional firmware not included in linux-firmware" line, but since this is something that hasn't really been necessary for years this is potentially something not everyone is immediately aware of. [[User:V1del|V1del]] ([[User talk:V1del|talk]]) 17:15, 13 August 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Even with a link to [[Advanced_Linux_Sound_Architecture#ALSA_firmware]], it might be confusing that it applies based on the hardware, even when the user wants to use [[PulseAudio]] or [[Pipewire]]. Is there a better place where audio firmware could be described? — [[User:Lahwaacz|Lahwaacz]] ([[User talk:Lahwaacz|talk]]) 20:00, 13 August 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::I tried to have some sort of "standardized" snippet on laptop pages when it needs ALSA firmware, but the ArchWiki is not a hardware db and we cannot document all pieces of hardware. Audio is not essential for some users but a few depend on screenreaders, which is crucial to accessibility.<br />
::In the end it might not cause harm to install sof-firmware when in doubt.<br />
::-- [[User:NetSysFire|NetSysFire]] ([[User talk:NetSysFire|talk]]) 01:17, 14 August 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::I mean if we cover firmware in e.g. [[Sound system]] and link to that instead of ALSA, it would seem much more general. — [[User:Lahwaacz|Lahwaacz]] ([[User talk:Lahwaacz|talk]]) 06:19, 14 August 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::Well for this particular case you can fairly easily identify whether you have a need for sof-firmware with an {{ic|<nowiki>lsmod | grep snd_sof</nowiki>}} or a {{ic|<nowiki>dmesg | grep -i sof</nowiki>}}, but yes might be helpful to move that somewhere else if we want to ensure to have hardware based separation here. [[User:V1del|V1del]] ([[User talk:V1del|talk]]) 12:04, 14 August 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::I [[Special:Diff/692787|added]] {{Pkg|sof-firmware}} as an example (and the aforementioned link) so that there's at least something for now. -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 10:20, 25 August 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Add a check for "native sector size" before/during partitioning step ==<br />
<s>Some pages like [[Solid state drive]] are nearly impossible to get to from just following the Installation Guide. This is problematic as some recommendations from these pages are only relevant '''before''' installation, as it is too late afterwards (notably for setting native sector size as in [[Solid state drive#Native sector size]]. I believe there should be a note in the partitioning step, something like modifying this line: <br />
* If you want to create any stacked block devices for [[LVM]], [[dm-crypt|system encryption]] or [[RAID]], do it now.<br />
to <br />
* If you want to create any stacked block devices for [[LVM]], [[dm-crypt|system encryption]] or [[RAID]], do it now. Also check [[Improving performance#Partitioning]] or [[Solid state drive]] for storage device specific information.<br />
As an alternative, this could be added to [[Partitioning]], but it's already quite big...<br />
-- [[User:Cvlc|Cvlc]] ([[User talk:Cvlc|talk]]) 15:47, 29 August 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Linking both [[Improving_performance#Partitioning]] (which needs improvements) and [[Solid state drive]] seems excessive. Also, it's unclear if the improvement is tangible enough to make users work through yet another wiki article for their basic setup. -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 09:28, 31 October 2021 (UTC)</s><br />
:: An alternative could be to add :<br />
:: {{Tip|Check that your disk reports the correct [[Solid_state_drive#Native_sector_size|sector size]]}}<br />
::at the beginning of partitioning. It's an important optimization step and currently not addressed. On a brand new nvme SSD, strictly following the wiki, I ended up with a wrongly set up LUKS volume because the drive reports 512 byte sectors as the active option, and I only found out after installing.<br />
<br />
::-- [[User:Cvlc|Cvlc]] ([[User talk:Cvlc|talk]]) 16:15, 23 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::Seeing as the "native sector size" is the only issue that can't be simply fixed after the fact (unlike e.g. TRIM), it should be fine to link it (after [[Talk:Advanced Format#Rewrite Advanced Format to a new Sector Sizes page]] is done). As for linking to [[Solid state drive]] in general, IMHO there's no need. It's already linked from [[General recommendations#Solid state drives]]. -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 09:53, 25 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::: Agreed, the sector size issue was the one that really bothered me. I corrected the title. <br />
::: -- [[User:Cvlc|Cvlc]] ([[User talk:Cvlc|talk]]) 11:05, 25 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::: Now that [[Talk:Advanced Format#Rewrite Advanced Format to a new Sector Sizes page]] is done, I suggest adding <br />
:::: {{Tip|Check that your disk reports the correct [[Advanced Format | sector size]]}}<br />
:::: before the partitioning step<br />
:::: -- [[User:Cvlc|Cvlc]] ([[User talk:Cvlc|talk]]) 03:42, 4 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::As I already mentioned, there's a lot of steps involved in that article for unknown gains. Presumably, most people will think it's a requirement (due to the general nature of the article) even when formatted as a tip. Only [[Advanced_Format#Alignment]] is straightforward and already handled by [[fdisk]]. -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 09:51, 9 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
:::: It's true that it's not a very simple article, but it's actually not that bad since people will skip to either HDDs or SSDs sections which are much more to the point. What do you think would be a better way to address this? formatting the disk to the correct sector size cannot be done at a later point in time. Again, all of this stems from the fact that it happened to me, and it's going to happen to anyone with a similar setup (most hardware with recent SSDs). What if I try simplifying the Advanced format article further ? --[[User:Cvlc|Cvlc]] ([[User talk:Cvlc|talk]]) 20:43, 9 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
:::: Perhaps something like "Tip: adjusting the storage device's sector size before partitioning it might be beneficial for performance." [[User:Neven|Neven]] ([[User talk:Neven|talk]]) 00:20, 6 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::I'd omit the "for performance" part, since such claims would need references. And since not every drive can change its logical sector size, IMHO it would be better to explicitly mention to who the tip applies to. From what I understand, that would be a large part of NVMe drives and some "enterprise" SATA HDDs. Despite what [[Advanced Format]] says, I couldn't find anything about SATA SSDs that support changing their sector size.<br />
::::: -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 13:18, 6 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Remove parted ==<br />
<br />
Due to parted [[Advanced Format#Partition alignment|not aligning the partition size]] (and with no patch in sight) which prevents using 4096 byte sectors with dm-crypt/LUKS unless explicitly planned before, I'd like to remove the "[[parted]]" link from [[Installation guide#Partition the disks]]. An alternative would be to change all examples in [[Parted]] to not use percentages and warn against using them. -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 07:21, 7 April 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I prefer to change the examples in [[Parted]]. Just removing the link from installation guide won't stop people from using the tool. -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 10:52, 7 April 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Note on Network Setup ==<br />
<br />
One of the most common installation issues that comes up on Reddit, Forums, and other discussion areas is not having done any sort of network setup. While the Installation Guide explicitly call out Network Setup as a required step, I suspect people are mistakenly believing the setup steps they did already to establish a connection on the installer will carry over to their installed system. <br />
<br />
I propose adding a note such as (example content):<br />
<br />
{{Note| Configuring your network connection above only established your network for the installer. This section will configure the network for your installed Arch system. Failure to do so may leave you without network access after completing installation.}} [[User:Nalthien|Nalthien]] ([[User talk:Nalthien|talk]]) 17:40, 15 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Such a thing [[Help:Style#Notes, Warnings, Tips|does not warrant a warning]] since there's nothing dangerous about being offline. It may even be the safest state the system will ever be. -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 10:24, 18 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:: I can agree that it doesn't warrant a Warning given the style guide; however, I do think a Note would be appropriate to "highlight information easily overlooked." It's clearly overlooked quite often. [[User:Nalthien|Nalthien]] ([[User talk:Nalthien|talk]]) 17:36, 20 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:[[Installation guide#Connect to the internet]] already explains (or tries to, at least) that the live environment's network setup has nothing to do with the installed system. Perhaps the list items in [[Installation guide#Install essential packages]] could be made a little more verbose to explain '''why''' someone may want to install those things. -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 10:24, 18 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Clarify root mount ==<br />
<br />
Without having perused history, I suggest to change [[Installation guide#Mount the file systems]] slightly from<br />
:Create any remaining mount points (such as {{ic|/mnt/efi}}) and mount their corresponding volumes. <br />
to<br />
:After the root volume is mounted, create any remaining mount points (such as {{ic|/mnt/efi}}) and mount their corresponding volumes.<br />
an alternative may be to add to the following tip (e.g. "Alternatively, create it using mkdir(1) beforehand, but only after mounting the root volume.")<br />
<br />
Reason: lsblk will happily show a {{ic|/mnt/boot}}, even if it was mounted too early, potentially messing up ''pacstrap'' and ''genfstab''. It will work, if {{ic|/mnt/boot}} is mounted twice (once before and after root), but it is simpler to explicitly address mount order.<br />
<br />
--[[User:Indigo|Indigo]] ([[User talk:Indigo|talk]]) 17:01, 2 June 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:As the previous instruction is "Mount the root volume...", this seems pretty redundant. [[User:Scimmia|Scimmia]] ([[User talk:Scimmia|talk]]) 18:14, 2 June 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Frankly, I don't remember how the ISO behaves regarding pkg-cache: Will a repeated ''pacstrap'' download updates again? --[[User:Indigo|Indigo]] ([[User talk:Indigo|talk]]) 19:29, 2 June 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::{{man|8|pacstrap}} uses the target's package cache by default. If the target was correct, then there will be no re-downloading on repeated runs. -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]])<br />
<br />
::::Ok, thanks. --[[User:Indigo|Indigo]] ([[User talk:Indigo|talk]]) 19:00, 3 June 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::I think all the confusion comes from new users not understanding the hierarchical structure. How about something like : "Create any remaining mount points (such as {{ic|/mnt/efi}}) and mount their corresponding volumes in a hierarchical order." -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 07:27, 3 June 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::That's clearer for the rest, yes. I'd make that suggestion "Create any remaining mount points (such as {{ic|/mnt/efi}}) and mount the volumes in their corresponding hierarchical order."<br />
:::Regarding the root mount, I do understand the resentment to deviate from the established and proven form, fine.<br />
:::This escapes the topic a little, but perhaps a catch-all procedural sentence is what it needs instead. For example, to the third intro paragraph: "This guide is deliberately kept concise and you are advised to follow the instructions in the presented order per section. For more detailed instructions, see the respective ArchWiki article or the various programs' man pages, both linked from this guide.".<br />
:::--[[User:Indigo|Indigo]] ([[User talk:Indigo|talk]]) 19:00, 3 June 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::Yes, "their corresponding hierarchical order" sounds a lot better.<br />
::::I don't think the resistance to change is that bad. :) We could alter the root mount text if there's some consensus about it.<br />
::::IMHO "deliberately kept concise" gives off a negative connotation. I can't think of any better suggestions at the moment, though.<br />
:::: -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 11:17, 4 June 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::How about "intentionally concise and you are advised ..."? --[[User:Indigo|Indigo]] ([[User talk:Indigo|talk]]) 15:38, 8 June 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::::That sounds better to me. 👍 -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 05:11, 9 June 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::::Or since "intentionally concise" is not concise, "This guide is kept concise and ..." :) -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 13:10, 12 June 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::::::Ok. To summarise, we'd add:<br />
::::::::"This guide is kept concise and you are advised to follow the instructions in the presented order per section." to start the third para intro,<br />
::::::::and change corresponding sentence in [[Installation guide#Mount the file systems]] to<br />
::::::::"Create any remaining mount points (such as {{ic|/mnt/efi}}) and mount the volumes in their corresponding hierarchical order."<br />
::::::::if no further objections arise.<br />
::::::::--[[User:Indigo|Indigo]] ([[User talk:Indigo|talk]]) 16:54, 15 June 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::::::A month has passed with no objections. I think you can update the page now :) -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 13:56, 15 July 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Partitioning tools ==<br />
<br />
Is there any reason gdisk is not listed as an option? If we include parted, despite problems with alignment, I don't see why gdisk is excluded. The wiki page for fdisk actually suggests gdisk as an alternative. I'm probably not the only one who learnt to use gdisk for GPT and it is nice to use a familiar tool if there's no reason not to. But I don't want to add it if it's omitted for a reason. --[[User:Margali|cfr]] ([[User talk:Margali|talk]]) 01:29, 20 August 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:[[fdisk]] linking to [[gdisk]] is the result of a [[Special:Permalink/568741#Example layouts section|previous discussion]] about this.<br />
:Personally, I agree that [[Installation guide#Partition the disks]] should mention [[gdisk]]. My suggestion would be: "Use [[fdisk]], [[parted]] or [[gdisk]] (GPT only) to modify partition tables".<br />
: -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 10:16, 20 August 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::By the same argument, we should then mention cfdisk, cgdisk and any other partition tools. As such I'd suggest the following instead: "Use a [[Partitioning#Partitioning_tools|partitioning tool]] like [[fdisk]] or [[parted]] to modify partition tables". -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 13:32, 24 August 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::Your suggestion is better than the current text at least. -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 08:44, 25 August 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::In the end the situation is quite similar to the one for boot loaders and network managers. I wouldn't mind listing more alternatives (or even tables) in the installation guide, but then the reasoning has to be applied equally to other sections. -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 15:08, 25 August 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::I hope it's nothing like [[Partitioning#Partitioning tools|this sorry excuse for a table]].<br />
:::::The thing with partitioning tools, compared to e.g. network managers, is that there are not that many of them. There's basically just fdisk, gdisk and parted. fdisk & gdisk additionally have scriptable and text user interfaces. And there are GUI ones based on parted.<br />
:::::I'd say let's go with your suggested text for now. We'll get to the greater goal eventually :D<br />
::::: -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 15:22, 25 August 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::::The table in [[Partitioning#Partitioning tools]] got better, so IMHO it should be fine to link to it now. -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 16:04, 28 August 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::::The "old" beginners' guide had a similar table included: [[User:Alad/Beginners'_guide#Partition_the_devices]]. Considering the small size, it could make sense to include the one from [[Partitioning#Partitioning tools]] in the installation guide directly. The downside is the GUI wrappers don't apply to the live environment. -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 16:36, 28 August 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::::::If there's a problem with parted not aligning, it strikes me as perverse to mention fdisk and parted by name, but nothing else. Surely the example tools should be ones which don't need special warnings (if at all possible)? Maybe fdisk should be the only example? (Unless it has changed, gdisk isn't on the ISO, so that's a good reason not to pick it out, but steering people away from parted seems warranted if it is problematic.) --[[User:Margali|cfr]] ([[User talk:Margali|talk]]) 03:13, 30 October 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Consider adding link to Ext4 ==<br />
<br />
In '''Section 1.10 - Format the partitions''', consider adding a link to '''Ext4''' article (https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Ext4).<br />
<br />
The reason is simple - that's what I wanted and expected to be there, but it wasn't, and so I had to google it.<br />
<br />
One deeper reason is that for a beginner, the fact that the "recommended" file system for root partition is called '''Ext4''', might not be intuitive, and it might provoke questions like "Why ext4? What is it? What are the alternatives?".<br />
<br />
[[User:Green Day|Green Day]] ([[User talk:Green Day|talk]]) 20:00, 8 October 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:There is no ''recommended'' file system for root. The section already has a link to [[File systems]], you can find Ext4 there. — [[User:Lahwaacz|Lahwaacz]] ([[User talk:Lahwaacz|talk]]) 08:18, 9 October 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::If we leave out the deeper discussion on what's recommended or not, I'd say nothing speaks against replacing ''ext4'' with [[ext4]] in the installation guide. -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 15:32, 25 October 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== <s>Add alternative ways to configure the new system</s> ==<br />
<br />
There are things like [[systemd-firstboot]] that can serve as alternative ways of configuring the newly-installed system. Those can be linked to in a proper point of [[Installation_guide#Configure_the_system]].<br />
<br />
[[User:YHNdnzj|YHNdnzj]] ([[User talk:YHNdnzj|talk]]) 13:17, 25 October 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:[[systemd-firstboot]] is already in [[:Category:Installation_process]], linked from the first paragraph of the guide. -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 15:30, 25 October 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Missing pacman-key steps ? ==<br />
<br />
I just tried (using archlinux-2022.11.01-x86_64.iso) the standard archlinux installation (pacstrap) following the guide,<br />
and once the packages were downloaded, they failed to install with errors like:<br />
* "signature from <maintainer> is unknown trust"<br />
<br />
I found on the web the following commands to solve the issue: (https://bbs.archlinux32.org/viewtopic.php?id=2900)<br />
* pacman-key --init<br />
* pacman-key --populate archlinux<br />
<br />
After those two commands, the pacstrap installation works fine.<br />
<br />
If those two commands are needed, shouldn't we document them in the Installation guide ?<br />
<br />
(note that the same problem/solution is applicable to archinstall method too)<br />
<br />
{{Unsigned|23:02, 3 November 2022 (UTC)|Nsauzede}}<br />
<br />
:This is already done by pacman-init.service. [[User:Scimmia|Scimmia]] ([[User talk:Scimmia|talk]]) 23:38, 3 November 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I hit the exact same problem with same installation iso. I got the solution from https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Pacman/Package_signing<br />
:{{Unsigned|2022-12-02T07:53:41|Roblaing}}<br />
<br />
== <s>Root partition label</s> ==<br />
<br />
I've found a gap exists between this page and the various bootloader install pages. The various bootloader install pages mostly seem to assume that the root partition has a label. From a quick scan, I'm pretty sure the [[EFISTUB]] page uses the label "Arch Linux", [[GRUB]] uses "archroot", [[REFInd]] uses "Arch Linux", [[Syslinux]] uses "arch", [[systemd-boot]] uses "arch_os", and [[LILO]] uses "Arch". Personally, I went through the systemd-boot instructions and had to search an error message on the internet when it tried to boot and couldn't find the partition with label "arch_os" (since I had never been instructed to label the partition prior to that point). If people agree this gap should be closed then I suggest (and will implement) the following:<br />
<br />
# Standardize the example label names among the various bootloader install pages (open to suggestions here but beware bikeshedding: doesn't matter too much as long as they're the same)<br />
# Add links to [[Persistent_block_device_naming#by-label]] on the various bootloader install pages where appropriate<br />
# Change the {{ic|mkfs.ext4 /dev/root_partition}} example command on this page to {{ic|mkfs.ext4 /dev/root_partition -L $standardized_label_name}}<br />
<br />
It doesn't seem as though I have permissions to edit this page directly so I am posting here. Thoughts?<br />
<br />
[[User:Andrew Helwer|Andrew Helwer]] ([[User talk:Andrew Helwer|talk]])<br />
<br />
:I never heard about issues with labels or experienced them myself using Syslinux, systemd-boot or GRUB. Likely this is an error in the (unspecified) configuration you used instead. -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 16:18, 25 November 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:"[[EFISTUB]] page uses the label "Arch Linux"" No, it doesn't.<br />
:"[[REFInd]] uses "Arch Linux"" No, it doesn't.<br />
:"[[Syslinux]] uses "arch"" No, it doesn't.<br />
:"[[LILO]] uses "Arch"" No, it doesn't.<br />
:Grub and systemd-boot have examples that include a filesystem label, but it's made clear that it's a placeholder and you need to use the label you assigned.<br />
:[[User:Scimmia|Scimmia]] ([[User talk:Scimmia|talk]]) 16:26, 25 November 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::I guess that explains the confusion, closing. -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 16:32, 25 November 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::The OP missed that there is a difference between a partition label and a "menu label". — [[User:Lahwaacz|Lahwaacz]] ([[User talk:Lahwaacz|talk]]) 18:28, 25 November 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::Ah you are correct, my bad - I was trying to interpret the various bootloader pages without going through the installation process of each and did not make that distinction. Perhaps I will just look at the systemd-boot page to see whether that example arch.conf loader section can be clarified a bit. If not, no great trouble - the problem was easy enough to diagnose & rectify when it happened. Just want to avoid people getting demoralized when the first reboot doesn't work. [[User:Andrew Helwer|Andrew Helwer]] ([[User talk:Andrew Helwer|talk]])<br />
<br />
== Microcode ==<br />
<br />
Should microcode not be mentioned at some point? Right now it is buried in 'General Recommendations' with details via a further link, but it is surely more important than that suggests. If all users of Intel and AMD CPUs need it 'to ensure system stability' as the Microcode page says, it should be mentioned here. This is especially true since it naturally goes along with installing the kernel and configuring the bootloader. Otherwise, the bootloader config just has to be done again. --[[User:Margali|cfr]] ([[User talk:Margali|talk]]) 04:53, 10 December 2022 (UTC)</div>Margalihttps://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Talk:KDE&diff=759385Talk:KDE2022-12-08T18:54:38Z<p>Margali: /* Suggested window decoration related tip/trick */ new section</p>
<hr />
<div>== inotify max_user_watches ==<br />
I have found that when using applications like clementine that uses inotify setting it to 10 000 does not help, it needs to be set to 1048576 when the library is 100 000+. This is the only part in the wiki that mentions this value. So I think we need to add a mention here for large collections or have a page that explains inotify a little more. [[User:Tazmain|Tazmain]] ([[User talk:Tazmain|talk]]) 00:19, 14 December 2016 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Screen tearing in nvidia tip ==<br />
<br />
The suggested method have a big impact on many games. It's better to first try enabling the triple buffer, as suggested here: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/NVIDIA/Troubleshooting#Avoid_screen_tearing<br />
<br />
Maybe it would be a good thing to remove the USLEEP suggestion and link to that page instead.<br />
<br />
:Agreed on the linking part. However, "enabling" triple buffering is not better, see the discussion page of the linked article.<br />
:[[User:Aufkrawall|Aufkrawall]] ([[User talk:Aufkrawall|talk]]) 12:06, 17 October 2017 (UTC)<br />
:I found a better solution for USLEEP which is also Plasma/KWin specific.<br />
:[[User:Aufkrawall|Aufkrawall]] ([[User talk:Aufkrawall|talk]]) 15:15, 25 October 2017 (UTC)<br />
::I tried this new tip, as a startup script, but I had some issues. The windows of the applications loaded from the previous session pops out of the splash screen. I suppose that happens when kwin is restarted. Furthermore, my desktop appears completely black and without icons. I need to kill and restart plasmashell to restore it. In my personal experience I found the full composition pipeline + triple buffer trick a better solution for the tearing issue and with a imperceptible impact on performances (i7 4790 and nvidia GTX 1060 here).<br />
::[[User:Masque|Masque]] ([[User talk:Masque|talk]]) 17:43, 26 October 2017 (UTC)<br />
::Have you tried delaying the scrip by a few seconds via sleep? I did a dozen restarts or so without issues. However, I'm not restoring previous sessions.<br />
::[[User:Aufkrawall|Aufkrawall]] ([[User talk:Aufkrawall|talk]]) 10:17, 27 October 2017 (UTC)<br />
::Adding a 5 seconds sleep in the script solves the issues. Strangeley, I found that with this and even without any trick to fix tearing in kwin, the unity engine game I used to test (Tacoma) have some stutter in the more complex scenes. It looks like the other tip (full pl + triple buffer) somehow improves the smoothness, as opposed to what I had read. I can't explain that.<br />
::[[User:Masque|Masque]] ([[User talk:Masque|talk]]) 22:44, 27 October 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Magic Trick (~/.compose-cache) - does it still work? ==<br />
<br />
It seems information of {{ic|~/.compose-cache}} has been lost?<br />
<br />
After a bit of testing, it still seems to work just fine:<br />
{{hc|ls -lh ~/.compose-cache| <br />
-rw------- 1 archie archie 29K 5 mrt 19:27 l4_030_20fca6bc_0e7768ba<br />
-rw------- 1 archie archie 418K 5 mrt 17:23 l4_030_313cb605_00280cc0<br />
}}<br />
<br />
[[User:Francoism|Francoism]] ([[User talk:Francoism|talk]]) 20:59, 5 March 2019 (UTC)<br />
: Is there any upstream link for this trick? We need to show user this low level trick is actually useful. -- [[User:Fengchao|Fengchao]] ([[User talk:Fengchao|talk]]) 08:42, 22 November 2019 (UTC)<br />
::No upstream link, but I'm using the following as reference:<br />
::https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3104<br />
::http://kdemonkey.blogspot.com/2008/04/magic-trick.html<br />
::[[User:Francoism|Francoism]] ([[User talk:Francoism|talk]]) 13:22, 25 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== qt5ct and kvantum bugs after upgrade ==<br />
<br />
This is personal experience though. The true cause are still unknown, but im sure it happens to other user as well especially they who update this when new KDE hidpi option introduced. [[User:Dikasetyaprayogi|Dikasetyaprayogi]] ([[User talk:Dikasetyaprayogi|talk]]) 01:14, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Is there any point in this section now? I remember something like this did happen but I didn't solve it in any of the ways suggested here. (I believe I changed my xorg config.) I don't have kvantum installed and I'm pretty sure I never did. I'm not sure what kt5ct is/was, but it isn't in pacman's repositories now and it doesn't seem to be in AUR either. --[[User:Margali|cfr]] ([[User talk:Margali|talk]]) 16:45, 21 August 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Nvidia GBM support for version 5.23.2 ==<br />
<br />
It seems there will be support for GBM coming with KDE version 5.23.2 and the upcoming Nvidia driver: https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=KDE-Plasma-GBM-NVIDIA-Ready<br />
<br />
The [https://invent.kde.org/plasma/kwin/-/merge_requests/1526#note_325121 merge request] mentions that GBM will be used as standard, but users can still force EGLstreams with:<br />
KWIN_DRM_FORCE_EGL_STREAMS=1<br />
<br />
I guess that {{Pkg|egl-wayland}} will also not be necessary anymore.<br />
<br />
[[User:G3ro|G3ro]] ([[User talk:G3ro|talk]]) 21:00, 24 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== CLI control ==<br />
<br />
It would be useful to have information about controlling KDE from the command line e.g. kwin. This information is hard to find (or I'm bad at finding it) and often useful. For example<br />
: qdbus org.kde.KWin /Compositor suspend<br />
: qdbus org.kde.KWin /Compositor resume<br />
--[[User:Margali|cfr]] ([[User talk:Margali|talk]]) 02:04, 29 September 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:In those particular instances, those are just [[D-Bus]] interfaces. Perhaps we could elaborate on generalized D-Bus usage on that page, and list some of KDE's D-Bus interfaces here (w/ a source code citation). - [[User:CodingKoopa|CodingKoopa]] ([[User talk:CodingKoopa|talk]]) 00:35, 30 September 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Suggested window decoration related tip/trick ==<br />
<br />
If you add an application menu window decoration, you lose the standard application menu from all affected applications. Removing the decoration does not restore the regular menu. Nor does ctrl+m get it back. Instead, you need to change<br />
MenuBar=Disabled<br />
to<br />
MenuBar=Enabled<br />
in all ~/.config/applicationrc configuration files and then start the application(s) afresh. --[[User:Margali|cfr]] ([[User talk:Margali|talk]]) 18:54, 8 December 2022 (UTC)</div>Margalihttps://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Talk:Partitioning&diff=759005Talk:Partitioning2022-12-04T19:55:44Z<p>Margali: /* boot/EFI partition */ new section</p>
<hr />
<div>== Partition Alignment Verification ==<br />
<br />
''[moved from [[Talk:Solid State Drives#Partition Alignment Verification]] -- [[User:Lahwaacz|Lahwaacz]] ([[User talk:Lahwaacz|talk]]) 20:13, 10 July 2014 (UTC)]''<br />
<br />
On my system 'blockdev --getalignoff /dev/sda5' returns zero, even though the partition seems not to be aligned optimally:<br />
Disk /dev/sda: 465.8 GiB, 500107862016 bytes, 976773168 sectors<br />
Units: sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes<br />
Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes<br />
I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes<br />
Disklabel type: dos<br />
Disk identifier: 0xd9a92553<br />
<br />
Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System<br />
/dev/sda1 * 2048 1026047 512000 7 HPFS/NTFS/exFAT<br />
/dev/sda2 1026048 479475711 239224832 7 HPFS/NTFS/exFAT<br />
/dev/sda3 946051072 976771071 15360000 7 HPFS/NTFS/exFAT<br />
/dev/sda4 479475712 946051071 233287680 5 Extended<br />
/dev/sda5 479475775 518545791 19535008+ 83 Linux<br />
/dev/sda6 518545855 541984626 11719386 83 Linux<br />
/dev/sda7 541984690 557615871 7815591 82 Linux swap / Solaris<br />
/dev/sda8 557615935 946051071 194217568+ 83 Linux<br />
<br />
The command 'parted /dev/sda align-check optimal' gives the right message in my opinion: 'not aligned'. Should we replace blockdev command?<br />
<br />
[[User:Plk|Plk]] ([[User talk:Plk|talk]]) 18:31, 31 May 2014 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:It seems you're right. After reading the warning about cfdisk alignment ("Warning: The first partition created by cfdisk starts at sector 63, instead of the usual 2048. This can lead to reduced performance on SSD and advanced format (4k sector) drives. It will cause problems with GRUB2, but GRUB legacy and Syslinux should work fine."), I created the first partition of the SSD I was working on with cfdisk - thus creating a bad alignment (I checked with ''fdisk -l /dev/sda'', the first partition effectively starts at sector 63 and not 2048).<br />
:The ''blockdev --getalignoff /dev/sda1'' command returned zero (it shouldn't have) while your command ''parted /dev/sda align-check optimal'' returned 'not aligned', as expected.<br />
:It seems to be a bug of blockdev in ArchLinux, as of util-linux v.2.24.<br />
:I upgraded to util-linux v.2.25-3, and the problem is still present in blockdev. However, cfdisk has been entirely rewritten for util-linux 2.25 as described in this [http://karelzak.blogspot.fr/2014/06/new-cfdisk-util-linux-v225.html blog post] and now correctly starts the first partition at sector 2048 when creating it.<br />
<br />
<br />
:So should we edit the wiki page for recommanding upgrade to util-linux 2.25 in order to use cfdisk with correct partition alignment ? As util-linux integrates multiple essential softwares, I don't know if upgrading it will or not break something with the other utilities it includes.<br />
:In any case, I think we should disrecommend using blockdev to check partition alignment, and recommend using parted instead for the time being. Can anyone else confirm this bug, especially on other distributions ? We need to know if the problem is inherent to Arch's implementation of blockdev or to blockdev itself.<br />
<br />
:--[[User:Irrodeus|Irrodeus]] ([[User talk:Irrodeus|talk]]) 01:56, 6 September 2014 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Restructuring ==<br />
<br />
=== Example tables ===<br />
<br />
[https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Partitioning&diff=440209&oldid=438934] moved tables from the [[Beginners' guide]] to [[Partitioning#Partition_scheme]], however it didn't fit in too well so I've removed it for now.<br />
<br />
However, I think the basic idea is a sound one, but perhaps more expansive. We could include suggested [[File systems]], as well as more complex examples such as {{ic|/var}} and GRUB Boot partitions.<br />
<br />
See the updated tables from the BG below for reference. -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 00:20, 10 July 2016 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Table draft ===<br />
<br />
{| class="wikitable"<br />
!colspan="5" | UEFI/GPT example layout<br />
|-<br />
! Mount point<br />
! Partition<br />
! [[w:GUID_Partition_Table#Partition_type_GUIDs|Partition type (GUID)]]<br />
! Bootable flag<br />
! Suggested size<br />
|-<br />
| /boot<br />
| /dev/sd'''x'''1<br />
| [[EFI System Partition]]<br />
| Yes<br />
| 260–512 MiB<br />
|-<br />
| [SWAP]<br />
| /dev/sd'''x'''2<br />
| Linux [[swap]]<br />
| No<br />
| More than 512 MiB<br />
|-<br />
| /<br />
| /dev/sd'''x'''3<br />
| Linux<br />
| No<br />
| Remainder of the device<br />
|-<br />
!colspan="5" | MBR/BIOS example layout<br />
|-<br />
! Mount point<br />
! Partition<br />
! [[w:Partition type|Partition type]]<br />
! Bootable flag<br />
! Suggested size<br />
|-<br />
| [SWAP]<br />
| /dev/sd'''x'''1<br />
| Linux [[swap]]<br />
| No<br />
| More than 512 MiB<br />
|-<br />
| /<br />
| /dev/sd'''x'''2<br />
| Linux<br />
| Yes<br />
| Remainder of the device<br />
|}<br />
<br />
:I added these tables to the page. I also added one using a separate {{ic|/home}} since I imagine that is the most common scenario. I think 3 examples could be enough, but I am open to more. -- [[User:Rdeckard|Rdeckard]] ([[User_talk:Rdeckard|talk]]) 18:53, 11 October 2016 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Nice work. One thing I was considering is to have multiple small tables under the various partition sections (like /home), instead of a single large one. Thoughts? -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 18:56, 13 October 2016 (UTC)<br />
::edit: I noticed you already split the tables; that leaves whether it makes sense to have them under sections like [[Partitioning#.2Fhome]] rather than [[Partitioning#Example layouts]]. -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 19:01, 13 October 2016 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::All examples include the {{ic|/}} partition and swap. Avoiding duplication and forward references is probably one of the reasons why people invented [[w:appendix|appendix]]. -- [[User:Lahwaacz|Lahwaacz]] ([[User talk:Lahwaacz|talk]]) 19:15, 13 October 2016 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Table draft 2 ===<br />
<br />
{| class="wikitable"<br />
|+ BIOS/MBR<br />
! Mount point <br/>on the installed system<br />
! Partition<br />
! [[Wikipedia:Partition type|Partition type ID]]<br />
! [[Wikipedia:Boot flag|Boot flag]]<br />
! Suggested size<br />
|-<br />
| {{ic|[SWAP]}}<br />
| {{ic|/dev/sda1}}<br />
| {{ic|82}}: Linux [[swap]]<br />
| {{No}}<br />
| More than 512 MiB or the size of RAM to use [[hibernation]]<br />
|-<br />
| {{ic|/}}<br />
| {{ic|/dev/sda2}}<br />
| {{ic|83}}: Linux<br />
| {{Yes}}<br />
| Remainder of the device<br />
|-<br />
| {{Grey|N/A}}<br />
| None<br />
| ''Unallocated space''<br />
| {{Grey|N/A}}<br />
| At least 16.5 KiB<br />
|}<br />
<br />
{| class="wikitable"<br />
|+ BIOS/GPT with [[GRUB]]<br />
! Mount point <br/>on the installed system<br />
! Partition<br />
! [[Wikipedia:GUID Partition Table#Partition type GUIDs|Partition type GUID]]<br />
! [[Wikipedia:GUID Partition Table#Partition entries (LBA 2-33)|Partition attributes]]<br />
! Suggested size<br />
|-<br />
| {{Grey|None}}<br />
| {{ic|/dev/sda1}}<br />
| {{ic|21686148-6449-6E6F-744E-656564454649}}: [[BIOS boot partition]]<br />
|<br />
| 1 MiB<br />
|-<br />
| {{ic|[SWAP]}}<br />
| {{ic|/dev/sda2}}<br />
| {{ic|0657FD6D-A4AB-43C4-84E5-0933C84B4F4F}}: Linux [[swap]]<br />
|<br />
| More than 512 MiB or the size of RAM to use [[hibernation]]<br />
|-<br />
| {{ic|/}}<br />
| {{ic|/dev/sda3}}<br />
| {{ic|4F68BCE3-E8CD-4DB1-96E7-FBCAF984B709}}: Linux x86-64 root (/)<br />
|<br />
| Remainder of the device<br />
|}<br />
<br />
{| class="wikitable"<br />
|+ BIOS/GPT with [[Syslinux]]<br />
! Mount point <br/>on the installed system<br />
! Partition<br />
! [[Wikipedia:GUID Partition Table#Partition type GUIDs|Partition type GUID]]<br />
! [[Wikipedia:GUID Partition Table#Partition entries (LBA 2-33)|Partition attributes]]<br />
! Suggested size<br />
|-<br />
| {{ic|[SWAP]}}<br />
| {{ic|/dev/sda1}}<br />
| {{ic|0657FD6D-A4AB-43C4-84E5-0933C84B4F4F}}: Linux [[swap]]<br />
|<br />
| More than 512 MiB or the size of RAM to use [[hibernation]]<br />
|-<br />
| {{ic|/}}<br />
| {{ic|/dev/sda2}}<br />
| {{ic|4F68BCE3-E8CD-4DB1-96E7-FBCAF984B709}}: Linux x86-64 root (/)<br />
| {{ic|2}}: Legacy BIOS bootable<br />
| Remainder of the device<br />
|}<br />
<br />
{| class="wikitable"<br />
|+ UEFI/GPT with a [[boot loader]] which has a driver for your root file system (eg. [[GRUB]], [[rEFInd]])<br />
! Mount point <br/>on the installed system<br />
! Partition<br />
! [[Wikipedia:GUID Partition Table#Partition type GUIDs|Partition type GUID]]<br />
! [[Wikipedia:GUID Partition Table#Partition entries (LBA 2-33)|Partition attributes]]<br />
! Suggested size<br />
|-<br />
| {{ic|/efi}}<br />
| {{ic|/dev/sda1}}<br />
| {{ic|C12A7328-F81F-11D2-BA4B-00A0C93EC93B}}: [[EFI system partition]]<br />
|<br />
| 260 MiB<br />
|-<br />
| {{ic|[SWAP]}}<br />
| {{ic|/dev/sda2}}<br />
| {{ic|0657FD6D-A4AB-43C4-84E5-0933C84B4F4F}}: Linux [[swap]]<br />
|<br />
| More than 512 MiB or the size of RAM to use [[hibernation]]<br />
|-<br />
| {{ic|/}}<br />
| {{ic|/dev/sda3}}<br />
| {{ic|4F68BCE3-E8CD-4DB1-96E7-FBCAF984B709}}: Linux x86-64 root (/)<br />
|<br />
| Remainder of the device<br />
|}<br />
<br />
{| class="wikitable"<br />
|+ UEFI/GPT with a [[boot loader]] without file system drivers or [[EFISTUB|without a boot loader]] at all<br />
! Mount point <br/>on the installed system<br />
! Partition<br />
! [[Wikipedia:GUID Partition Table#Partition type GUIDs|Partition type GUID]]<br />
! [[Wikipedia:GUID Partition Table#Partition entries (LBA 2-33)|Partition attributes]]<br />
! Suggested size<br />
|-<br />
| {{ic|/boot}}<br />
| {{ic|/dev/sda1}}<br />
| {{ic|C12A7328-F81F-11D2-BA4B-00A0C93EC93B}}: [[EFI system partition]]<br />
|<br />
| 260 MiB<br />
|-<br />
| {{ic|[SWAP]}}<br />
| {{ic|/dev/sda2}}<br />
| {{ic|0657FD6D-A4AB-43C4-84E5-0933C84B4F4F}}: Linux [[swap]]<br />
|<br />
| More than 512 MiB or the size of RAM to use [[hibernation]]<br />
|-<br />
| {{ic|/}}<br />
| {{ic|/dev/sda3}}<br />
| {{ic|4F68BCE3-E8CD-4DB1-96E7-FBCAF984B709}}: Linux x86-64 root (/)<br />
|<br />
| Remainder of the device<br />
|}<br />
<br />
{| class="wikitable"<br />
|+ BIOS&UEFI/GPT with [[GRUB]]<br />
! Mount point <br/>on the installed system<br />
! Partition<br />
! [[Wikipedia:GUID Partition Table#Partition type GUIDs|Partition type GUID]]<br />
! [[Wikipedia:GUID Partition Table#Partition entries (LBA 2-33)|Partition attributes]]<br />
! Suggested size<br />
|-<br />
| {{Grey|None}}<br />
| {{ic|/dev/sda1}}<br />
| {{ic|21686148-6449-6E6F-744E-656564454649}}: [[BIOS boot partition]]<br />
|<br />
| 1 MiB<br />
|-<br />
| {{ic|/efi}}<br />
| {{ic|/dev/sda2}}<br />
| {{ic|C12A7328-F81F-11D2-BA4B-00A0C93EC93B}}: [[EFI system partition]]<br />
|<br />
| 260 MiB<br />
|-<br />
| {{ic|[SWAP]}}<br />
| {{ic|/dev/sda3}}<br />
| {{ic|0657FD6D-A4AB-43C4-84E5-0933C84B4F4F}}: Linux [[swap]]<br />
|<br />
| More than 512 MiB or the size of RAM to use [[hibernation]]<br />
|-<br />
| {{ic|/}}<br />
| {{ic|/dev/sda4}}<br />
| {{ic|4F68BCE3-E8CD-4DB1-96E7-FBCAF984B709}}: Linux x86-64 root (/)<br />
|<br />
| Remainder of the device<br />
|}<br />
<br />
{| class="wikitable"<br />
|+ BIOS&UEFI/GPT with [[Syslinux]]<br />
! Mount point <br/>on the installed system<br />
! Partition<br />
! [[Wikipedia:GUID Partition Table#Partition type GUIDs|Partition type GUID]]<br />
! [[Wikipedia:GUID Partition Table#Partition entries (LBA 2-33)|Partition attributes]]<br />
! Suggested size<br />
|-<br />
| {{ic|/boot}}<br />
| {{ic|/dev/sda1}}<br />
| {{ic|C12A7328-F81F-11D2-BA4B-00A0C93EC93B}}: [[EFI system partition]]<br />
| {{ic|2}}: Legacy BIOS bootable<br />
| 260 MiB<br />
|-<br />
| {{ic|[SWAP]}}<br />
| {{ic|/dev/sda2}}<br />
| {{ic|0657FD6D-A4AB-43C4-84E5-0933C84B4F4F}}: Linux [[swap]]<br />
|<br />
| More than 512 MiB or the size of RAM to use [[hibernation]]<br />
|-<br />
| {{ic|/}}<br />
| {{ic|/dev/sda3}}<br />
| {{ic|4F68BCE3-E8CD-4DB1-96E7-FBCAF984B709}}: Linux x86-64 root (/)<br />
|<br />
| Remainder of the device<br />
|}<br />
<br />
<br />
I didn't like the current [[Partitioning#Example layouts]] so I tried to make better ones, but I think I made too many of them. I'm not entirely certain if "GPT + BIOS & UEFI with Syslinux" is a good idea due to all of Syslinux's limitations, but GRUB doesn't use the "Legacy BIOS bootable" attribute and without the Syslinux example the whole column would become useless. Thoughts? -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 10:19, 1 January 2018 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:If syslinux needs special mention in a manner that is exclusive to it, then I'd argue that the column is useless anyway except to draw attention to syslinux. It seems like a Note would be better for that, assuming we want to recommend syslinux at all. -- [[User:Eschwartz|Eschwartz]] ([[User talk:Eschwartz|talk]]) 05:30, 9 December 2018 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::It's not really Syslinux specific, theoretically the "Legacy BIOS bootable" attribute should be needed by any boot loader that puts stuff in the VBR (I wonder if that's also true for [[GRUB/Tips and tricks#Install to partition or partitionless disk|GRUB in VBR]]). -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 09:06, 9 December 2018 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::I think that's out of scope, if the user uses some bootloader which turns out to require a bootable flag, it's simple to go back into the ISO and set the flag accordingly. This is different from say, a BIOS Boot Partition (for [[GRUB]]) which would require actual changes in partitioning if not considered beforehand.<br />
:::As such I suggest to go with the following:<br />
::::BIOS (MBR and GPT)<br />
::::* BIOS Boot Partition<br />
::::* /<br />
::::* [[swap]] (as [[Btrfs]] does not support swap files, and the examples should be as generic as possible)<br />
::::UEFI<br />
::::* EFI System Partition<br />
::::* /<br />
::::* [[swap]]<br />
:::-- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 20:35, 20 December 2018 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::The same reasoning applies to the "Boot flag" column in the BIOS/MBR example, so if we remove "Partition attributes" then we should also remove "Boot flag". -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 06:51, 21 December 2018 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== mmcblk0p{1,2,3,4}, mmcblk0boot{0,1}, mmcblk0rpmb ==<br />
And my install usb showed up as sda instead.. Don't know how to best deal with that. "Boot" ones don't seem to provide disklabel type and identifier information, and are only 4MiB. My guess is to ignore them. {{ic|/dev/mmcblk0p3}} seems to be the one with windows on it.(ASUS Vivobook E200HA)[[User:Jasper1984|Jasper1984]] ([[User talk:Jasper1984|talk]]) 00:58, 25 December 2016 (UTC)<br />
:Ended up just ignoring the {{ic|mmcblk0boot{0,1&#125;}} entries, treating {{ic|mmcblk0p{1,2,3,4&#125;}} as if were just sda, basically, it worked. (dont see the rpmb volumes now) More specifically, didnt reformat the first partition, instead just putting different files there. Tried the bind-mount approach in [[EFI System Partition]], but ended up the more regular approach. (not sure why it didnt co-operate) Would suspect that {{ic|mmcblk0boot{0,1&#125;}} dont matter much, but would suggest just reusing the first partition nevertheless..(really, little reason to reformat that?)[[User:Jasper1984|Jasper1984]] ([[User talk:Jasper1984|talk]]) 00:34, 14 January 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Leaving unpartitioned space on a disk ==<br />
<br />
From the following observations:<br />
* in the future, you might want to use different partitions (test new OS, different FS, different boot partitions, creating a custom image, prototyping, ...)<br />
* on big drives, most space usually remain unused (expect when storing games, a lot of videos/, other exotic usage)<br />
* it is easier to expand a filesystem than to shrink it (some filesystem can't be shrinked)<br />
My conclusion is that with big drives, the advice to leave unused space is correct for people with little to no experience with partitioning, <br />
[[User:Apollo22|Apollo22]] ([[User talk:Apollo22|talk]]) 16:32, 15 June 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:This is so specific to user behaviour that you can't make a general recommendation like this. Most of the time, people have a reason to buy a large disk instead of a small disk, so telling them not to use the full capacity is rather silly. Also, a common paraphrase of the Moore's law says that no matter how large your hard drive is, in 2 years you will fill most of its capacity. -- [[User:Lahwaacz|Lahwaacz]] ([[User talk:Lahwaacz|talk]]) 18:11, 15 June 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::I disagree that that most people have a reason to buy a large disk because of the current price of disks. Also most people reading this part of the article have little experience, leaving some space free would give they the opportunity to move their data around to correct past mistakes without needing an external disk. Overall I think it's an important idea to include in the page, maybe more something to know about. For example: You might consider not partitioning your whole disk ? And give the reasons why ? -- [[User:Apollo22|Apollo22]] ([[User talk:Apollo22|talk]]) 20:52, 15 June 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Wikipedia definition ==<br />
<br />
I noticed that [[Device_file]] and [[File_systems]] both use Wikipedia to define their articles, but [[Partitioning]] did not. I took a look at the Wikipedia article for it, and it does seem suitable enough for this article, so I went ahead and wrote that in. I'm not sure what the consensus is on using Wikipedia as an "upstream" reference, but in this case, it fits well, I think.<br />
<br />
My only concern is that the summary now neglects to differentiate block devices from hard disks, which a reader will only discover later in the article.<br />
<br />
[[User:Wheatgold|Wheatgold]] ([[User talk:Wheatgold|talk]]) 15:54, 8 September 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Remove tool-MBR/GPT compatibility warning? ==<br />
<br />
There is a warning in [[Partitioning#Partitioning_tools]]<br />
<br />
Warning: ... use a partitioning tool compatible to the chosen type of partition table. Incompatible tools ... destruction of that table ....<br />
<br />
In the table above the warning, MBR tools is already a _subset_ of GPT tools. Is it ok to remove the warning? {{Unsigned|15:21, 3 August 2021 (UTC)|PXf}}<br />
<br />
:The only use I see for that warning is that if you open a device with a MBR partition table in gdisk, it will try to convert it to GPT. -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 13:04, 4 August 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Separate /var ==<br />
<br />
The article [[Partitioning#/var |suggests]] there are benefits in having {{ic|/var}} as a separate partition. That [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Partitioning&action=historysubmit&type=revision&diff=120973&oldid=117949 has been introduced] 12 years ago. In 2022 there still '''may''' be advantages to such a setup in some scenarios, but '''should''' this information be in the partitioning article, which is being read by beginners installing Arch? [[Disk quota| Disk quotas]] may be used to limit growth on per-user (effectively per-service) basis and for pacman cache we have {{ic|paccache}}. Fragmentation is no longer a big issue with modern file systems like ext4 and btrfs.<br />
--[[User:Mpan|Mpan]] ([[User talk:Mpan|talk]]) 16:47, 19 August 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:It still makes sense if you have multiple disks. — [[User:Lahwaacz|Lahwaacz]] ([[User talk:Lahwaacz|talk]]) 20:08, 20 August 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Yes, hence “'''may''' be advantages to such a setup in some scenarios”. For the record I outlined some in [https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?pid=2052545#p2052545 a forum thread on /var] and there are also comments regarding partition positioning in general. That thread is also what caused my concern. I’m not denying existence of sensible use cases, but discussing that in a general partitioning article. --[[User:Mpan|Mpan]] ([[User talk:Mpan|talk]]) 23:24, 20 August 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::Where else would you discuss it? I think this is still more common than having a separate [[Partitioning#/data|/data partition]]... — [[User:Lahwaacz|Lahwaacz]] ([[User talk:Lahwaacz|talk]]) 05:14, 21 August 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::As for where: maybe nowhere? Maybe a dedicated section describing separate partitions, but in general? If I knew the answers, I would not start this topic to discuss it. I would edit the article instead. But I don’t even have a clear estimate of how important that is nowadays ''in common usage scenarios''. The relevance of “/data” mount to this is unclear to me. --[[User:Mpan|Mpan]] ([[User talk:Mpan|talk]]) 12:04, 21 August 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== boot/EFI partition ==<br />
<br />
If /boot is also the EFI partition, some firmware requires it to be at least 512MB. (Or may work with fat-16 rather than fat-32.) Doubtless this is a less common problem now, but dropping this warning is likely to leave some people with extremely difficult-to-diagnose boot issues. --[[User:Margali|cfr]] ([[User talk:Margali|talk]]) 19:55, 4 December 2022 (UTC)</div>Margalihttps://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Talk:Data-at-rest_encryption&diff=759004Talk:Data-at-rest encryption2022-12-04T19:27:41Z<p>Margali: /* plain vs luks in dm-crypt */ new section</p>
<hr />
<div>== Add filesystem encryption ==<br />
It is possible to use encryption offered by filesystems, instead of using something like [[dm-crypt]] and [[eCryptfs]].<br />
In most cases they are even better because they offer more flexibility, performance and without the need of something like [[FUSE]] (but that's not part of this scope).<br />
<br />
Should we extend the table listing encryption solutions or simple link to the filesystem page instead?<br />
<br />
[[User:Francoism|Francoism]] ([[User talk:Francoism|talk]]) 11:53, 19 November 2018 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
== Add EXT4 transparent folder encryption ==<br />
<br />
-- EXT4 has also a transparent folder-based encrption implemented!<br />
<br />
<br />
[[User:Nonie689|Nonie689]] ([[User talk:Nonie689|talk]]) 13:31, 22 June 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Unicode graphs/patterns==<br />
''[Original title was Ascii graphs/patterns]''<br />
<br />
Hi,<br />
A small issue unrelated topic : how are ascii graphs/patterns made?<br />
:One method I know is: http://www.asciiflow.com/#Draw<br />
:--[[User:Indigo|Indigo]] ([[User talk:Indigo|talk]]) 20:45, 3 September 2013 (UTC)<br />
::Note that those graphs are not made with simple ASCII characters, but Unicode (I've fixed the title of the discussion).<br />
::Anyway, this is a very interesting question indeed, I too would like to know if there are any editors that can make it easy to draw such diagrams.<br />
::This would also solve [[Talk:Installing Arch Linux with EVMS#Image replacement contest]].<br />
::Finally, an editor like that should be mentioned in [[Help:Style#Non-pertinent content]].<br />
::-- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 05:47, 4 September 2013 (UTC)<br />
:I created these diagrams manually using [[Wikipedia:Kate_%28text_editor%29|Kate]], which is a normal text editor ''(but it has an advanced feature called "Block Selection Mode" that helps a lot with this kind of stuff)''. I also kept a window of [[Wikipedia:gucharmap|gucharmap]] open on one side of the screen, which allowed me to easily find and pick suitable Unicode characters.<br />
:--[[User:Sas|Sas]] ([[User talk:Sas|talk]]) 19:21, 19 November 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Move out of User page==<br />
This page is quite good IMO. So it can be moved to a normal page. It can receive updates there and other pepole can contribute. -- [[User:Fengchao|Fengchao]] ([[User talk:Fengchao|talk]]) 06:20, 11 June 2012 (UTC)<br />
:+1 -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 09:18, 12 June 2012 (UTC)<br />
: No respons from author. This will block [System_Encryption_with_LUKS] restructure so I do the job to move on.-- [[User:Fengchao|Fengchao]] ([[User talk:Fengchao|talk]]) 02:22, 15 June 2012 (UTC)<br />
:: Hi, and sorry for abandoning this article half-way through and then forgetting about it.<br />
:: As for writing the general introduction/explanation text (part of which consists of merging the corresponding sections from the [[System_Encryption_with_LUKS]] article into this one), I had already started working on that locally back when I created this article, but I have that file on a different computer than I am on now. If you give me until tomorrow (Monday) evening (European time), I'll bring what I have into a readable state and upload it to this page, and then everybody can help modifying/extending it.<br />
:: The reason why I created the article as a user page and didn't move it into the main namespace right away, is that I originally planned to first discuss some feature requests with the wiki maintainers which would make the page more maintainable (without sacrificing user-friendliness). Namely, support for automatically numbered footnotes, and moving the comparison table formatting into a wiki-wide "comparison-table" CSS class (or maybe, separate "comparison-table-vertical" and "comparison-table-horizontal" classes). Right now, the comparison table's wiki markup is so messy and difficult to work with that I would feel guilty asking other people to help add info to it. --[[User:Sas|Sas]] ([[User talk:Sas|talk]]) 17:35, 17 June 2012 (UTC)<br />
::: I added the main text sections now. It would be great if a native speaker with good language skills could do some copyediting for the individual subsections to formulate them more concisely and make them nicer to read. --[[User:Sas|Sas]] ([[User talk:Sas|talk]]) 20:42, 18 June 2012 (UTC)<br />
::::Hi Sas, thank you for getting back working on this article!!<br />
::::About the numbered footnotes, that would require the installation of an extension (involving web developers) and if we can keep it simpler instead it'd be better, since this would be the only article using that feature.<br />
::::About the comparison-table class, can you report an existing example (in another wiki I guess) of what you mean exactly?<br />
::::-- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 20:57, 19 June 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Was Serpent judged most secure? ==<br />
<br />
According to the fact sheet available from the relevant link (https://web.archive.org/web/20020211162045/http://csrc.nist.gov:80/encryption/aes/round2/aesfact.html), Serpent was not the finalist selected for the relevant standard. According to that fact sheet, the judgement was not that the other finalists (including Serpent) were insecure, but claiming it was judged the most secure seems unmotivated. Have I missed something? What's the source for this? The linked papers are by the researchers who proposed Serpent, aren't they? That's not the judgement of impartial evaluators. --[[User:Margali|cfr]] ([[User talk:Margali|talk]]) 05:03, 4 November 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== About hardware-based full disk encryption ==<br />
<br />
There's a line stating<br />
<br />
"The best remedy might be hardware-based full disk encryption and Trusted Computing."<br />
<br />
As it became known over the last few years, disk-based encryption is often either weak, broken or vulnerable to other attaks, like altering the firmware.<br />
<br />
So the Arch Wiki recommends a propritary solution, which (from the vendors point of view) must be as cheap and fast as possible.<br />
<br />
Should the statement be altered or a warning added?<br />
<br />
[[User:Baerbeisser|Baerbeisser]] ([[User talk:Baerbeisser|talk]]) 15:23, 27 July 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:About hardware-based FDE, there's already [[Self-Encrypting Drives#Disadvantages]], I think we can expand that if needed.<br />
:About [[Wikipedia:Trusted Computing]], I think the Wikipedia article is a bit biased actually, "trusted computing" may be a term originally suggested by the [[Wikipedia:Trusted Computing Group|Trusted Computing Group]], but to me it has a more generic meaning, and the TCG technology is only an ''implementation'' of the idea (although basically the only one in practice), see e.g. [https://searchsecurity.techtarget.com/definition/trusted-computing], [https://www.eff.org/wp/trusted-computing-promise-and-risk] or even [https://lwn.net/Articles/747564/]. Since we don't link to a specific TC vendor site, and we already say "The best remedy '''might be''' ..." (not '''is'''), I think the Wikipedia article already does a decent job at following up by introducing the possible flaws of the technology, but perhaps we could link to a more neutral external page, or [[Wikipedia:trusted system]]s?<br />
:-- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 07:14, 28 July 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== File encryption ==<br />
<br />
I think it is a good idea to include some file encryption methods. It is useful for some cases like sharing files and backup important data on a friend's computer. | [[User:Huupoke12|Huupoke12]] ([[User talk:Huupoke12|talk]]) 14:17, 7 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:What do you propose more specifically? -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 02:58, 12 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::I propose using 7z with -p flag to set the password which also encrypt it. | [[User:Huupoke12|Huupoke12]] ([[User talk:Huupoke12|talk]]) 08:29, 14 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::That's already mentioned in [[p7zip]].<br />
:::Mentioning manual encryption/decryption of single files in this article would contradict the introduction in the first place, which currently limits the scope to on-the-fly encryption, so a much broader restructuring would be needed.<br />
:::Maybe [[Security#Data-at-rest encryption]] is a better place to mention manual single-file encryption?<br />
:::-- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 23:57, 14 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Encfs with Windows ==<br />
<br />
I changed the "Encfs works in Microsoft Windows" statement from Yes to No. Had already done that a few years ago.<br />
<br />
It is true that some tools exist. I could actually use them (after a lot of time spent to figure it out), but only *sometimes*. The software Safe for Windows (http://www.getsafe.org/about), which uses WebDAV, used to work without administration rights but as today (2020-07-16) it's over-outdated and doesn't work. Other solutions *require by design* that the user have administration rights on Windows. The right links for EncFSMP are https://encfsmp.sourceforge.io/ and https://github.com/rhiestan/EncFSMP . Actually, with EncFSMP, one might be able to decrypt and copy to a new folder all encrypted data without administration rights but they won't have a filesystem opened because this is the part that requires administration rights.<br />
<br />
I tried to use Encfs, simply because I had to share files at home and at work, possibly without any Internet connection and definitely no administration rights at work. IMHO, it's a very common situation: many Archlinux users use Archlinux at home and possibly Windows at work because they don't have a choice. In that case, they most probably don't have administration rights in Windows either. So it seems misleading to just write: "Yes" in the table.<br />
<br />
[[User:Tétrapyle|Tétrapyle]] ([[User talk:Tétrapyle|talk]]) 08:23, 16 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Remove deprecated encryptions ==<br />
<br />
Like TrueCrypt and encfs which are deprecated and halted.<br />
The TrueCrypt page is archived...<br />
--[[User:Tiziodcaio|Tiziodcaio]] ([[User talk:Tiziodcaio|talk]]) 23:54, 17 July 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== rclone ==<br />
<br />
rclone may also be a good option (with rclone crypt + rclone mount).<br />
[[User:Coolwanglu|Coolwanglu]] ([[User talk:Coolwanglu|talk]]) 22:12, 3 October 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== plain vs luks in dm-crypt ==<br />
<br />
The article says plain has advantages over LUKS, as well as disadvantages, and refers readers to the comparison of block-device vs. fs encryption. But that doesn't say anything about why you might want plain rather than LUKS since both plain and LUKS fall on the block-device side of the comparison. Am I missing something? I thought the standard advice was to use LUKS unless you know precisely why you want plain and precisely what you're doing. --[[User:Margali|cfr]] ([[User talk:Margali|talk]]) 19:27, 4 December 2022 (UTC)</div>Margalihttps://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Talk:Avahi&diff=758495Talk:Avahi2022-11-30T18:04:54Z<p>Margali: /* Server vs. client? */ new section</p>
<hr />
<div>== Warning about its usage? ==<br />
I strongly suggest that Avahi not be used at this time; especially with Win9X on the LAN. Avahi does nothing to help with the network connections and does not offer any services which are not available elsewhere. Worse, it is not complete, and is missing key elements.<br />
<br />
Futher, since all networking configuration is extremely difficult, it is far more advantageous to focus the user on the basics. Unless the user is of advanced understanding of Arch and the inner workings of Linux in general, the use of Avahi is only distracting from the ultimate quest; having a simple and intuitive network and file sharing setup.<br />
<br />
If any user might stumble upon this subject, it would be good to offer appropriate warnings at the begining of the article, and clearly explain the details of the tested situation offered in the article. Obviously it does not work in certain situations, as I can attest.<br />
<br />
Thanks. - [[User:KitchM|KitchM]] 20:51, 3 June 2010 (EDT)<br />
: This comment is quite long. Since Avahi upstream does see itself unstable, so maybe the warning here is not needed. At the same time, the "Not working situations" should be list clearly of cause. --[[User:Fengchao|Fengchao]] ([[User talk:Fengchao|talk]]) 05:49, 18 May 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::The comment was meant to be amplified enough so all could understand all the nuances of the problem. Further, just because upstream thinks it is stable, or even useful, does not make it either. To test if the product works, anyone is free to test it. [[User:KitchM|KitchM]] ([[User talk:KitchM|talk]]) 15:10, 18 May 2012 (UTC)<br />
::: Then please add an objective summary of the current situation. And an list of "Not working situations" based on your experence will help other users as well. -- [[User:Fengchao|Fengchao]] ([[User talk:Fengchao|talk]]) 12:15, 19 May 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== systemd-resolved conflict ==<br />
<br />
Is mDNS still necessary? It seems systemd-resolved has built-in support for it. Enabling mDNS as this article describes now causes the error message: {{ic|*** WARNING: Detected another IPv4 mDNS stack running on this host. This makes mDNS unreliable and is thus not recommended. ***}} {{Unsigned|06:39, 11 February 2018|Fylwind}}<br />
<br />
:Is systemd-resolved enabled by default? We should definitely mention that it's an alternative.<br />
:Also note [https://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/systemd-devel/2014-June/020362.html this quote] by Lennart Poettering (original developer of Avahi and now working on systemd-resolved): "Our plan is to turn systemd-resolved into an nscd compatible daemon that speaks dns/dnssec, mdns, llmnr, in the long run replacing avahi."<br />
:I'm not sure how far they are on achieving the ultimate goal though. [[User:Lonaowna|Lonaowna]] ([[User talk:Lonaowna|talk]]) 12:52, 17 February 2018 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Don't Merge Avahi print service/CUPS with Airport/Airprint==<br />
<br />
There is no logical relationship. AirPort/AirPrint is something separate and distinct from creating an Avahi service file to make printers available to wireless clients. Avahi and its services are not in any way related. 'AirPort' is an apple product you buy, Configuring an Avahi service to make a printer available -- is something you can do with Avahi. Make sense that would stay on the Avahi page.<br />
<br />
[[User:Drankinatty|David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. -- Rankin Law Firm, PLLC]] ([[User talk:Drankinatty|talk]]) 06:17, 29 July 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Server vs. client? ==<br />
<br />
Usually with these kinds of services, there's a distinction between what you need to do to run as a server and what you need to do to use a client. Is that the case here or is everything here required to use Avahi either way? --[[User:Margali|cfr]] ([[User talk:Margali|talk]]) 18:04, 30 November 2022 (UTC)</div>Margalihttps://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Talk:Power_management&diff=757318Talk:Power management2022-11-18T03:46:43Z<p>Margali: /* suspend-then-hibernate behaviour changed in systemd 252 */ new section</p>
<hr />
<div>== Suspend/resume service files ==<br />
<br />
I have the slight suspicion that the service files posted in the section [[Power Management#Suspend/resume service files]] might not work. Has anybody tried them or is actually using them? <br><br />
-- [[User:Jakobh|jakobh]] [[User talk:Jakobh|✉]] 03:12, 10 May 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
: (Mod: the section was moved from [[systemd]] into [[Power Management]], so I moved this post too, fixed link along the way. -- [[User:Lahwaacz|Lahwaacz]] ([[User talk:Lahwaacz|talk]]) 10:24, 21 August 2013 (UTC))<br />
<br />
== Sleep hooks ==<br />
<br />
Where is the exact difference between '''Suspend/resume service files''' approach and '''Hooks in /usr/lib/systemd/system-sleep'''?<br />
<br />
Is the latter obsolete?<br />
<br />
-- [[User:Orschiro|Orschiro]] 07:33, 17 January 2014<br />
<br />
:From {{ic|systemd-sleep(8)}}:<br />
::"Note that scripts or binaries dropped in {{ic|/usr/lib/systemd/system-sleep/}} are intended for local use only and should be considered hacks."<br />
:It's always preferred to use service files, they are much more flexible in handling the dependencies etc.<br />
:-- [[User:Lahwaacz|Lahwaacz]] ([[User talk:Lahwaacz|talk]]) 23:52, 31 January 2014 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Delayed hibernation service ==<br />
<br />
I have found that the service file given in this section does not work. My laptop hibernates immediately after resuming from suspend. I have also found that the older version of this service found in the forum post does indeed work perfectly. Does anyone know why this is?<br />
[[User:Aouellette|Aouellette]] ([[User talk:Aouellette|talk]]) 16:16, 30 May 2015 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Resume file does not work after resuming from hibernation ==<br />
<br />
The systemd unit {{ic|User resume actions}} presented on this page only worked for me after resuming from sleep, not from hibernate. <br />
After adding {{ic|hibernate.target}} to the {{ic|After}} and {{ic|WantedBy}} lines it works both ways.<br />
However this is the first time I've done anything with such service files so I ain't sure if this is the optimal way.<br />
Can anyone confirm?<br />
<br />
{{unsigned|18:30, 12 October 2015|PhilippD}}<br />
<br />
:Actually, the {{ic|suspend@.service}} in [[Power_management#Suspend.2Fresume_service_files]] binds to {{ic|sleep.target}}, but {{ic|resume@.service}} binds to {{ic|suspend.target}}. They are not synonyms, systemd triggers {{ic|suspend.target}} and {{ic|sleep.target}} when the system is suspended to RAM, and {{ic|hibernate.target}} and {{ic|sleep.target}} when it is suspended to disk. This way you can bind your service to either one or both suspend methods using just a single target. -- [[User:Lahwaacz|Lahwaacz]] ([[User talk:Lahwaacz|talk]]) 19:17, 12 October 2015 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Bluetooth rfkill ==<br />
<br />
Systemd now provides {{ic|systemd-rfkill.service}}. If you use {{ic|rfkill block}} to disable bluetooth, {{ic|systemd-rfkill.service}} will remember this and restore this state on next boot -- [[User:robtaylor|robtaylor]] ([[User talk:robtaylor|talk]]) Wed 18 May 16:10:05 BST 2016<br />
<br />
== A "sensible value" for the laptop mode ==<br />
<br />
The vast amount of specific information carried in this part, I find it a bit surprising. It seems "A sensible value for the laptop mode 'knob' is 5 seconds." could be heard in the mouth of a politician kicking the ball into touch.<br />
<br />
From Documentation/laptops/laptop-mode.txt:<br />
<br />
> The value of the laptop_mode knob determines the time between the occurrence of disk I/O <br />
and when the flush is triggered. A sensible value for the knob is 5 seconds. Setting the knob<br />
to 0 disables laptop mode.<br />
<br />
So "5 (seconds)" is related to the virtual memory subsystem (in direct relation to ''vm.dirty_writeback_centisecs''). Then "0" turns laptop mode off, aha. It'd be cool to know *what* is laptop_mode is in the first place: Is it the whole vm configuration settings that are described in the docs? I believe not, as e.g. the conf files are not to be seen in present Arch (nor in other distros I know of).<br />
<br />
A few things changed a bit since the Documentation/laptops/laptop-mode.txt was last edited, in 2004. I've searched extensively which part of it might still be up to date, without success so far. ''TLP'' has many if not most of the settings the doc explains. And so looks as an evolution of ''laptop_mode''. Would a guru or someone with knowledge about that be kind enough to specify the effect of ''vm.laptop_mode''? [[User:Kozaki|kozaki]] ([[User talk:Kozaki|talk]]) 23:33, 1 September 2016 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:The effect of the {{ic|vm.laptop_mode}} is described in the kernel docs in "The Details" section. The scripts that the docs talk about are probably [[Laptop Mode Tools]] nowadays. They are needed only to switch settings based on the current power source (and as a "bonus" they integrate most of the things in the [[Power_management#Power_saving]] section), but I bet the kernel settings are mostly the same as in 2004. -- [[User:Lahwaacz|Lahwaacz]] ([[User talk:Lahwaacz|talk]]) 08:41, 2 September 2016 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:: I now see that, thank you Lahwaacz. Now as we may increase flush time to disk (to, say, ten minutes) via {{ic|vm.dirty_writeback_centisecs}}, delaying the flush up to five seconds via the {{ic|vm.laptop_mode}} knob doesn't make much sense regarding the ''disk'' power-savings... But it may help the ''cpu'' staying idle longer. Hence, whether set via [[laptop-mode-tools]], [[tlp]] or proper self-made [[udev]] rules. I.e. {{ic|vm.laptop_mode}} and {{ic|vm.dirty_*}} together help delaying and grouping system's activity ''as a whole'', allowing for longer power-saving efficient idle times. Please correct me if I'm wrong. [[User:Kozaki|kozaki]] ([[User talk:Kozaki|talk]]) 19:37, 4 September 2016 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::: True, but the delay via {{ic|vm.laptop_mode}} makes sense also for other reasons. Let's say {{ic|vm.dirty_writeback_centisecs}} is set to something like 10 minutes and the disk is spun down due to inactivity and stays like that for e.g. 8 minutes, when it spins up due to user activity. Flushing all the cummulated dirty pages to the disk immediately might delay the request which caused the disk to spin up, so it's better to wait couple of seconds until there is chance that small high-priority requests have been serviced. Also, it might take couple of seconds to spin up the disk. -- [[User:Lahwaacz|Lahwaacz]] ([[User talk:Lahwaacz|talk]]) 20:14, 4 September 2016 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== suspend to hibernate require fix ==<br />
<br />
Rather than overriding the <code>suspend.target</code>, I think we should just add <code>RequiredBy=suspend.target</code> in the <code>[Install]</code> section of the service. It works for me, and I think this is cleaner. Can anyone else confirm that this works?<br />
--[[User:Svvac|Svvac]] ([[User talk:Svvac|talk]]) 14:16, 28 May 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== network interfaces: udev rule does not work ==<br />
<br />
At least a few other wiki pages point to this rule for how an example of how to turn off power management, because power mananagement breaks some current cards using the iwlwifi driver. Unfortunately the given udev rule does not work due to persistent device names. There is a note here about persistent device names, but it is really confusing. It stresses the importance of the number in the file name, but then states that it actually wont work anyway and to use the persistent name instead of the wildcard?? However even that won't work because the udev rule above has ACTION="add". At least in my case, that ACTION clause causes the rule to only trigger for the original device name (wlan0), and not the persistent name (wlp5s0). So if I use wlan0 everywhere, it triggers but has no effect. If I use wlp5s0 everywhere it never triggers. One solution is to remove the ACTION="add" clause and use the persistent name everywhere. Another solution is to continue using a wildcard in KERNEL, such as KERNEL="wl*", and then use the persistent name instead of %k in the RUN command. I chose the second solution and my full udev rule was this:<br />
<br />
ACTION=="add", SUBSYSTEM=="net", KERNEL=="wl*", RUN+="/usr/bin/iw dev wlp5s0 set power_save off"<br />
<br />
Note that I also tried using 99 instead of 70 for the filename with the original udev rule, but that did not work. [[User:Lllars|Lllars]] ([[User talk:Lllars|talk]]) 23:10, 5 August 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:What the note tries to say is that you can't "use wlan0" everywhere as you did. In any case, the command is run ''after'' the interface gets a persistent name, so you need to run {{ic|iw dev wlp5s0 set power_save off}} (or, as the note says, {{ic|iw dev $name set power_save off}} to make it generic). As for the matching, {{ic|KERNEL}} is the "old name" and {{ic|NAME}} is the "new name", which is assigned in {{ic|80-net-setup-link.rules}}. -- [[User:Lahwaacz|Lahwaacz]] ([[User talk:Lahwaacz|talk]]) 14:57, 6 August 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Ok. In a way it's nice to have so much detail about how udev manages the initial and persistent names. But the way this is currently written is still very confusing. Thanks to $name, it sounds like we could just change the given udev rule to:<br />
ACTION=="add", SUBSYSTEM=="net", KERNEL=="wl*", RUN+="/usr/bin/iw dev $name set power_save on"<br />
::with a note about how some people will need to use "eth*" instead of "wl*", or off instead of on. Then the whole section about persistent names is unnecessary extra info, and could either be ommitted or clarified and kept as an informational side note.[[User:Lllars|Lllars]] ([[User talk:Lllars|talk]]) 02:22, 7 August 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::Note that there are people who [[Network_configuration#Revert_to_traditional_device_names|don't use the persistent names]] at all. -- [[User:Lahwaacz|Lahwaacz]] ([[User talk:Lahwaacz|talk]]) 06:17, 7 August 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== RTC drift bug in suspend-to-hibernate script ==<br />
<br />
For some time now I have been trying to figure out an issue with my laptop that seems to happen when I use the suspend-to-hibernate script: the laptop would immediately wake up after hibernating.<br />
<br />
I took some more time to investigate today, and I think (unfortunately not confirmed 100% yet - the issue was fairly rare) that there is a race in the script that causes the RTC to immediately wake up the computer after it gets suspended. Specifically, the RTC is reset after the hibernate has started, so it is possible that the reset does not happen before the computer hibernates.<br />
<br />
Further, the source for the current time is the command {{ic|date}}, whereas the RTC's idea of time might be a little different. I confirmed this by outputting {{ic|/sys/class/rtc/rtc0/since_epoch}} at the same time as {{ic|date +%s}} and saw delays as large as 4 seconds, but I suppose it could also get larger.<br />
<br />
Combining the RTC drift and the fact that the RTC wakealarm reset happens after the hibernate has started, it is possible for the computer to immediately wake up from hibernation right after it hibernates if that happens quickly enough. This was especially noticeable in my case as it would then wait for me to enter my encryption password and drain my battery, overheating the CPU and the insides of my backpack.<br />
<br />
I have two proposed changes to the script to make it better, but I suppose either one would fix the issue:<br />
<br />
# Use {{ic|/sys/class/rtc/rtc0/since_epoch}} as a base for the wakeup time, rather than {{ic|date}};<br />
# Reset the RTC wakealarm before hibernating (right after reading it would be ideal).<br />
<br />
<br />
I will keep investigating to see if I don't get the issue anymore (as I said, it was fairly rare and thus hard to confirm that it has definitely stopped happening), but if I don't see it in the next week, I'll submit an edit to the wiki.<br />
<br />
--[[User:Cynary|Cynary]] ([[User talk:Cynary|talk]]) 09:16, 20 February 2018 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Userspace tools ==<br />
<br />
[[Power management#Userspace tools]] now provides a list of graphical power managers and statistics tools as well as laptop power managers for the commandline. The recommendation to use only one of the listed tools because they conflict doesn't really fit anymore, how should that be changed? <br />
-- [[User:Progandy|Progandy]] ([[User talk:Progandy|talk]]) 12:42, 20 June 2018 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:It could be changed to something like this: ''Be aware that using some of these tools in combination can result in unexpected behavior, such as double suspends. Please consult the documentation of the tool in question to see if there are any possible conflicts.''<br />
:-- [[User:Chazza|Chazza]] ([[User talk:Chazza|talk]]) 16:12, 20 June 2018 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::That sounds good. I looked a bit closer and most (all?) of the GUI tools do not have anything to do with power saving, they only monitor and sometimes react to low battery charge states. Maybe it would be better to split the list between power saving and power monitoring instead of GUI/Console? acpid and powertop do both, though.<br />
::[[User:Progandy|Progandy]] ([[User talk:Progandy|talk]]) 18:37, 22 June 2018 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::Most GUI tools are not just monitors, e.g. MATE Power Manager can be used to turn off the screen and suspend the system after specified time, which definitely saves the power. On the other hand, most console tools are more advanced solutions, allowing more detailed power tweaks.<br />
:::--[[User:City-busz|City-busz]] ([[User talk:City-busz|talk]]) 22:02, 22 June 2018 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::Oh right, I somehow missed backlight and sleep management.<br />
::::[[User:Progandy|Progandy]] ([[User talk:Progandy|talk]]) 08:43, 23 June 2018 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Add tool to userspace tools ==<br />
<br />
Add [https://github.com/AdnanHodzic/auto-cpufreq auto-cpufreq] to [[Power_management#Console]] [[User:RaZorr|RaZorr]] ([[User talk:RaZorr|talk]]) 13:01, 16 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:{{AUR|auto-cpufreq}} may be more suitable under [[CPU frequency scaling#Userspace tools]]. -- [[User:Flyingpig|Flyingpig]] ([[User talk:Flyingpig|talk]]) 05:18, 17 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Audio device power management ==<br />
<br />
In [[Power_management#Audio]] it is stated that "audio power saving is turned off by most drivers". This is no longer true at least for snd_hda_intel, as of kernel 5.19.12-arch1-1. On my Dell Precision for example, this causes noise on headphones when no sound is playing. Indeed,<br />
<br />
cat /sys/module/snd_hda_intel/parameters/power_save<br />
<br />
shows 1 (enabled). Disabling it solves the issue. The following command can be used to test without rebooting:<br />
<br />
sudo tee /sys/module/snd_hda_intel/parameters/power_save<<<0<br />
<br />
I would like to update this section accordingly. Also, I wonder what is the best place to document this troubleshooting tip, if not already done.<br />
Thank you.--[[User:Topcat01|Topcat01]] ([[User talk:Topcat01|talk]]) 00:10, 2 October 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Did you test this with "most drivers"? Otherwise your hardware may be just one of the few having such issues. — [[User:Lahwaacz|Lahwaacz]] ([[User talk:Lahwaacz|talk]]) 08:11, 2 October 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::That's a good point and I thought of it too, but unfortunately I don't have access to other types of sound cards. In that case I'd just like to add a troubleshooting tip. Since this issue is caused by power management, I thought this page might be a good place. Advice welcome, thanks! -- [[User:Topcat01|Topcat01]] ([[User talk:Topcat01|talk]]) 18:23, 2 October 2022 (UTC)<br />
::Also, I noticed the idle noise only after the following updates, and on both regular and lts kernels:<br />
::linux-lts (5.15.69-1 -> 5.15.71-1)<br />
::linux (5.19.10.arch1-1 -> 5.19.12.arch1-1)<br />
::-- [[User:Topcat01|Topcat01]] ([[User talk:Topcat01|talk]]) 20:04, 2 October 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::So it seems your problems are related to some regression in the kernel and not to the note in the wiki. Did you search for a bug report? — [[User:Lahwaacz|Lahwaacz]] ([[User talk:Lahwaacz|talk]]) 08:13, 3 October 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::Yes, it seems to be a kernel regression. The default power management setting did not change recently for snd_hda_intel in Arch's config. Also I tried other machines and they did not have this issue with snd_hda_intel when power saving is enabled (the default). In light of this the change I proposed is not necessary. It would still be useful to add a tip on how to toggle power saving on the fly for testing, which the sudo tee above does. -- [[User:Topcat01|Topcat01]] ([[User talk:Topcat01|talk]]) 18:38, 4 October 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== suspend-then-hibernate behaviour changed in systemd 252 ==<br />
<br />
systemd 252 changes the behaviour of suspend-then-hibernate. Rather than waking after HibernateDelaySec and then hibernating, the system will wake, calculate how long it is safe to continue suspending for and then re-suspend, only hibernating when the battery reaches a dangerously low level. See https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/systemd-sleep.conf.html#suspend-then-hibernate and https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/25269, which confirms this is by design. There is a plan to make a version of the old behaviour available, but that's not currently available. <br />
: Not sure how this should be documented since it is not a bug (according to the developers), but I'm not clear if the options will be renamed so HibernateDelaySec will do what it used to do, while some new option will do what HibernateDelaySec currently does or whether some different solution will be determined on. --[[User:Margali|cfr]] ([[User talk:Margali|talk]]) 03:46, 18 November 2022 (UTC)</div>Margalihttps://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Talk:AppArmor&diff=757113Talk:AppArmor2022-11-16T01:01:33Z<p>Margali: /* What really do profiles do? */ new section</p>
<hr />
<div>== About the order of Install, kernel parameter, and apparmor.service ==<br />
<br />
I guess [[Apparmor]] 's order seem some messy. Mybe we should give a list to make people have a more easy way to read this wiki?<br />
<br />
Such:<br />
<br />
'''For {{Pkg|linux}}'''<br />
<br />
1. Install {{Pkg|apparmor}}<br />
<br />
2. Modify your kernel parameter<br />
<br />
3. Enable apparmor.service<br />
<br />
'''For custom kernel'''<br />
<br />
......<br />
<br />
[[User:Dragonwater|Dragonwater]] ([[User talk:Dragonwater|talk]]) 03:37, 28 July 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== What really do profiles do? ==<br />
<br />
I don't really understand how exactly profiles work. I've just installed apparmor and I've got a bunch of profiles in /etc/apparmor.d/. These are named after, in some cases, applications and, in other cases, something else (maybe?). If I enable apparmor.service, I'm enabling all these profiles? Why would I want to do that when half the things I've never even heard of? If I use different applications, am I supposed to write different profiles? I don't really get any sense from the article as it stands of what I might reasonably expect apparmor to do for me and how to get it to do it. I feel as if it's designed for a different system, but I don't know if that just means it makes no sense to use it or if I'm not understanding what it does. --[[User:Margali|cfr]] ([[User talk:Margali|talk]]) 01:01, 16 November 2022 (UTC)</div>Margalihttps://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Talk:Chrony&diff=756198Talk:Chrony2022-11-07T19:41:03Z<p>Margali: 2.3 For intermittently running desktops /etc/sysconfig?</p>
<hr />
<div>== For intermittently running desktops ==<br />
Is the user supposed to create /etc/sysconfig and /etc/sysconfig/chronyd? This sounds a bit odd, so should maybe be explicit if so? --[[User:Margali|cfr]] ([[User talk:Margali|talk]]) 19:41, 7 November 2022 (UTC)</div>Margalihttps://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Arch_is_the_best&diff=755803Arch is the best2022-11-03T23:27:50Z<p>Margali: Please don't use the minimal class for examples. It is not intended for this!</p>
<hr />
<div>[[Category:About Arch]]<br />
[[ja:Arch は最高]]<br />
[[ru:Arch is the best]]<br />
[[zh-hans:Arch is the best]]<br />
The '''Arch is the best''' project is a very sophisticated and exquisite, ego-boosting and mind-blowing (albeit perhaps a bit over-engineered) project which gives proof of Arch's superiority.<br />
<br />
== History ==<br />
<br />
The visionary project was originally devised in April 2008 by long time Arch community member [https://bbs.archlinux.org/profile.php?id=2529 lucke] as a simple shell script which provided irrefutable proof that "Arch is the best". It was announced to the world with a [https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=47306 forum post], thus illuminating other people's minds, who immediately started porting it to multiple different languages, both programming and verbal, so that every being on the planet could fully appreciate and benefit from this revolutionary discovery.<br />
<br />
== The code ==<br />
<br />
The "Arch is the best" project is ported to many programming languages.<br />
<br />
;1C&#58;Enterprise:A procedural domain-specific compiled dynamically-typed programming language mostly similar to VisualBasic which is used in "1C:Enterprise" products widespread in Russia and other CIS countries.<br />
<br />
Предупреждение("Arch is the best!");<br />
<br />
;ABAP: Advanced Business Application Programming language.<br />
<br />
REPORT zwhat_is_the_best.<br />
WRITE 'Arch is the best'.<br />
<br />
;Ada: A systems critical programming language.<br />
<br />
with Ada.Text_IO;<br />
use Ada.Text_IO;<br />
procedure ArchIsTheBest is<br />
begin<br />
Put_Line("Arch is the best!");<br />
end ArchIsTheBest;<br />
<br />
;APL: A Programming Language.<br />
<br />
'Arch is the best!'<br />
<br />
;AppleScript: A scripting language created by Apple Inc. and built into the Classic Mac OS since System 7 and into all versions of macOS.<br />
<br />
display alert "Arch is the best!"<br />
say "Indeed, Arch is the best."<br />
<br />
;ArnoldC: Programming language based on the one-liners of Arnold Schwarzenegger.<br />
<br />
IT'S SHOWTIME<br />
TALK TO THE HAND "Arch is the best!"<br />
YOU HAVE BEEN TERMINATED<br />
<br />
;ATS: A functional programming language that uses dependent types to improve programs' reliability.<br />
<br />
implement main () = println! "Arch is the best!"<br />
<br />
;Awk: A data-driven programming language designed for processing text-based data.<br />
<br />
BEGIN {<br />
print "Arch is the best!"<br />
}<br />
<br />
;BASIC: A scripting language that one of the most commonly used computer programming languages in the 1960's, considered an easy step for students to learn before more powerful languages such as FORTRAN.<br />
<br />
10 PRINT "Arch is the best!"<br />
<br />
;Batch: A scripting language for Windows that can be used to automate tasks or just have some fun.<br />
<br />
@echo off<br />
echo Arch is the best!<br />
pause<br />
<br />
;Befunge: Believed to be the first two-dimensional, ASCII-based, general-purpose (in the sense of "you could plausibly write Hunt the Wumpus in it") programming language.<br />
<br />
<v"Arch is the best!"0<br />
<,_@#:<br />
<br />
; BIRL: Like ArnoldC, but for Bambam[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwvsa7DzzHY].<br />
<br />
HORA DO SHOW<br />
CE QUER VER ESSA PORRA? ("Arch is the best!\n");<br />
BORA CUMPADE 0;<br />
BIRL<br />
<br />
;Boo:A stablished object oriented statically typed programming language for .NET and Mono with a python inspired syntax and a special focus on metaprogramming through language and compiler extensibility features such as macros and custom compilation pipelines.<br />
<br />
print "Arch is the best!"<br />
<br />
;Bourne shell: The original program, should be compatible with any shell.<br />
<br />
#!/bin/sh<br />
echo "Arch is the best!"<br />
<br />
;Bourne shell (Alternate):Handy for piping the output to your favourite IRC/email/IM client. Should work with any shell.<br />
<br />
#!/bin/sh<br />
yes Arch is the best!<br />
<br />
;brainfuck: Doesn't the language name explain it?<br />
<br />
++>++++++>+++++<+[>[->+<]<->++++++++++<]>>.<[-]>[-<++>]<br />
<----------------.---------------.+++++.<+++[-<++++++++++>]<.<br />
>>+.++++++++++.<<.>>+.------------.---.<<.>>---.<br />
+++.++++++++++++++.+.<<+.[-]++++++++++.<br />
<br />
;C: Note the three space indenting used in this project, much like that used by other superior beings.<br />
<br />
#include <stdio.h><br />
int main(void)<br />
{<br />
puts("Arch is the best!");<br />
return 0;<br />
}<br />
<br />
;C#: Intended to be a simple, modern, general-purpose, object-oriented programming language.<br />
<br />
using System;<br />
Console.WriteLine ("Arch is the best!");<br />
<br />
;C++ (before C++23) : Arch == Linux++<br />
<br />
#include <iostream><br />
int main ()<br />
{<br />
std::cout << "Arch is the best!\n";<br />
}<br />
<br />
;C++23: New C++ Standard.<br />
<br />
import std;<br />
int main()<br />
{<br />
std::println("Arch is the best!");<br />
}<br />
<br />
;COBOL:A simple, lightweight programming language.<br />
<br />
IDENTIFICATION DIVISION.<br />
PROGRAM-ID. TheBest.<br />
<br />
PROCEDURE DIVISION.<br />
DISPLAY "Arch is the best!".<br />
STOP RUN.<br />
<br />
;CoffeeScript: A programming language that transcompiles to JavaScript.<br />
<br />
alert 'Arch is the best!'<br />
<br />
;Clojure: A Lisp dialect that runs on the JVM.<br />
<br />
(prn "Arch is the best!")<br />
<br />
;Common Lisp: A Lisp dialect<br />
<br />
(princ "Arch is the best!")<br />
<br />
;Crystal: An object-oriented, Ruby-like language.<br />
<br />
puts "Arch is the best!"<br />
<br />
;Crystal (through web server): For distributing the message to multiple friends at once.<br />
<br />
# For giving the message to your friends<br />
require "http/server"<br />
<br />
server = HTTP::Server.new(80) do |context|<br />
context.response.content_type = "text/plain"<br />
context.response.print "Arch is the best!"<br />
end<br />
<br />
puts "Listening."<br />
server.listen<br />
<br />
;csh: A C-like shell.<br />
<br />
#!/bin/csh<br />
echo "Arch is the best!"<br />
<br />
;CSS: A stylesheet language, heavily used for styling web pages.<br />
<br />
body * {<br />
display: none;<br />
}<br />
<br />
body::before {<br />
content: "Arch is the best!";<br />
font-family: monospace;<br />
font-size: 2.7rem;<br />
position: absolute;<br />
left: 50%;<br />
top: 50%;<br />
transform: translate(-50%, -50%);<br />
}<br />
<br />
;D: A C-style language. The benefits of hindsight, with modern conveniences.<br />
<br />
import std.stdio : writeln;<br />
void main()<br />
{<br />
writeln("Arch is the best");<br />
}<br />
<br />
;Dart: Google's javascript killer<br />
<br />
main(){<br />
print('Arch is the best');<br />
}<br />
<br />
;Dogescript: Doge-friendly JavaScript<br />
<br />
console.loge with ' So Arch'<br />
console.loge with ' Much Good'<br />
console.loge with ' Wow'<br />
<br />
;Ebuild: Gentoo's build script format.<br />
<br />
DESCRIPTION="Arch is the best!"<br />
SRC_URI="<nowiki>https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Arch_is_the_best</nowiki>"<br />
<br />
LICENSE="GFDL_1.3"<br />
SLOT="0"<br />
KEYWORDS=""<br />
IUSE=""<br />
<br />
DEPEND=""<br />
RDEPEND=""<br />
<br />
src_compile() {<br />
einfo "Arch is the best!"<br />
}<br />
<br />
;Emacs Lisp: A dialect of the Lisp programming language used by the GNU Emacs and XEmacs text editors<br />
<br />
(message "Arch is the best!")<br />
<br />
;Emojicode: A delimiter-less, object oriented, imperative, high-level, hybrid language with emojis as fix points and methods.<br />
<br />
🏁 🍇<br />
😀 🔤Arch is the best!🔤❗️<br />
🍉<br />
<br />
;Elixir: A dynamic, functional language designed for building scalable and maintainable applications<br />
<br />
IO.puts "Arch is the best!"<br />
<br />
;Erlang: A concurrent, garbage-collected programming language and runtime system.<br />
<br />
-module(arch).<br />
-export([is_the_best/0]).<br />
is_the_best() -> io:fwrite("Arch is the best!\n").<br />
<br />
;Or using message passing between processes<br />
<br />
-module(arch).<br />
-export([ultimate_question/0,the_answer/0]).<br />
the_answer() -><br />
receive<br />
{Client,who_is_the_best} -><br />
Client ! {self(),"Arch is the best!"};<br />
{Client,_} -><br />
Client ! {self(),"Taco Taco Taco!"}<br />
end,<br />
the_answer().<br />
ultimate_question() -><br />
Pid = spawn(arch,the_answer,[]),<br />
Pid ! {self(),who_is_the_best},<br />
receive<br />
{Pid,Response} -> io:format("~s~n",[Response])<br />
end.<br />
<br />
;F#: A strongly-typed, functional-first programming language for writing simple code to solve complex problems.<br />
<br />
printfn "Arch is the best!"<br />
<br />
;Factor: High-level stack-based language.<br />
<br />
"Arch is the best" print<br />
<br />
;FIM++: A wordy, imperative, dynamically-typed, and interpreted language that can use Java classes.<br />
<br />
Dear Princess Celestia: Letter About Arch Linux.<br />
Today I learned:<br />
I wrote "Arch is the best!".<br />
Your faithful student, Twilight Sparkle<br />
<br />
;Fish: The user-friendly command line shell.<br />
<br />
function arch_is_the_best --on-event fish_prompt<br />
echo -ne "\e[94mArch is the best!\e[0m"<br />
end<br />
<br />
;Forth:Stack-based language.<br />
<br />
." Arch is the best" cr -- kiss way<br />
<br />
;Fortran95<br />
<br />
program arch<br />
print *,"Arch is the best!"<br />
end program arch<br />
<br />
;Gallina: The specification language of Coq, an interactive theorem prover.<br />
<br />
Require Import String.<br />
Open Scope string_scope.<br />
Compute ("Arch is the best!").<br />
<br />
;Genie: A new programming language, that allows for a more modern programming style while being able to effortlessly create and use GObjects natively.<br />
<br />
init<br />
print "Arch is the best"<br />
<br />
;Gjs: A Javascript binding for GNOME. It's mainly based on Spidermonkey javascript engine and the GObject introspection framework.<br />
<br />
#!/usr/bin/env gjs<br />
print ('Arch is the best');<br />
<br />
;Gleam: A fast, friendly, and functional language for building type-safe, scalable systems.<br />
<br />
import gleam/io<br />
<br />
pub fn main() {<br />
io.println("Arch is the best!")<br />
}<br />
<br />
;Go: A language created by Google that's a love child between C, C++ and Python.<br />
<br />
package main<br />
<br />
import "fmt"<br />
<br />
func main() {<br />
fmt.Println("Arch is the best!")<br />
}<br />
<br />
;Groovy: An agile and dynamic language for the Java Virtual Machine.<br />
<br />
println 'Arch is the best!' <br />
<br />
;Guile: GNU Ubiquitous Intelligent Language for Extensions. A portable, embeddable Scheme implementation.<br />
<br />
#!/usr/local/bin/guile -s<br />
!#<br />
(display "Arch is the best!")<br />
(newline)<br />
<br />
;Hare: A systems programming language designed to be simple, stable, and robust.<br />
<br />
use fmt;<br />
<br />
export fn main() void = {<br />
fmt::println("Arch is the best!")!;<br />
};<br />
<br />
;Haskell: The language where IO is easy and unproblematic.<br />
<br />
main = putStrLn "Arch is the best!"<br />
<br />
;Haxe: An object oriented language based off actionscript that has a flavor of functionality<br />
<br />
package;<br />
<br />
class Main {<br />
public static function main() {<br />
Sys.println("Arch is the best!");<br />
}<br />
}<br />
<br />
;HTML: A markup language used to create and define web pages and their content.<br />
<br />
{{bc|1=<br />
<!DOCTYPE html><br />
<html lang='en'><br />
<head><br />
<title>Arch is the best!</title><br />
</head><br />
<body><br />
<p>Arch is the best!</p><br />
</body><br />
</html><br />
}}<br />
<br />
;Idris: A general purpose pure functional programming language with dependent types. Haskell, but crazier.<br />
<br />
module Main<br />
<br />
main : IO ()<br />
main = putStrLn "Arch is the best!"<br />
<br />
;INTERCAL: "Designed very early one May morning in 1972 by two hackers who are still trying to live it down."<br />
<br />
PLEASE NOTE THAT THIS WAS MADE FOR C-INTERCAL<br />
DO ,10 <- #18<br />
DO ,10SUB#1 <- #126<br />
DO ,10SUB#2 <- #52<br />
DO ,10SUB#3 <- #136<br />
PLEASE DO ,10SUB#4 <- #176<br />
DO ,10SUB#5 <- #18<br />
DO ,10SUB#6 <- #110<br />
DO ,10SUB#7 <- #200<br />
PLEASE DO ,10SUB#8 <- #202<br />
DO ,10SUB#9 <- #214<br />
DO ,10SUB#10 <- #24<br />
DO ,10SUB#11 <- #112<br />
PLEASE DO ,10SUB#12 <- #162<br />
DO ,10SUB#13 <- #190<br />
DO ,10SUB#14 <- #160<br />
PLEASE DO ,10SUB#15 <- #216<br />
DO ,10SUB#16 <- #160<br />
DO ,10SUB#17 <- #170<br />
PLEASE DO ,10SUB#18 <- #52<br />
DO READ OUT ,10<br />
DO GIVE UP<br />
<br />
Also a much larger [https://gist.github.com/ISSOtm/33a486dac52626160131d8daa7f16fc6 ASCII-transcoding version].<br />
<br />
(Non-portable C-INTERCAL I/O had to be used, since INTERCAL-72 does not allow arbitrary characters.)<br />
<br />
;Io: A pure object-oriented programming language inspired by Smalltalk, Self, Lua, Lisp, Act1, and NewtonScript.<br />
<br />
"Arch is the best!" println<br />
<br />
;Java: An extremely portable language, this will run on pretty much anything, it might even run on your toaster!<br />
<br />
public class ArchIsTheBest {<br />
public static void main(String[] args) {<br />
System.out.println("Arch is the best!");<br />
}<br />
}<br />
<br />
;JavaScript: Also known as ECMAScript, a prototype-based object-oriented scripting language.<br />
<br />
console.log('Arch is the best!');<br />
<br />
;JavaScript (in a web browser)<br />
<br />
alert('Arch is the best!');<br />
<br />
;Julia: A fresh approach to numerical computing.<br />
<br />
println("Arch is the best!")<br />
<br />
;Kochanowski: Polish programming language based on JavaScript.<br />
<br />
Drukuj("Arch is the best!").<br />
<br />
;Kotlin: JetBrains' attempt to get world domination.<br />
<br />
fun main() {<br />
println("Arch is the best!")<br />
}<br />
<br />
;LaTeX: A typesetting framework and ecosystem implemented on top of TeX (ironically, more famous than TeX). "The" framework for typesetting mathematical equations and diagrams.<br />
<br />
\documentclass{standalone}<br />
<br />
\begin{document}<br />
Arch is the best!<br />
\end{document}<br />
<br />
;LilyPond: A powerful music engraving program with an intuitive LaTeX-like input language.<br />
<br />
\version "2.12.3"<br />
\include "english.ly"<br />
\header { title = "Arch is the best!" }<br />
\score<br />
{<br />
<<<br />
\relative c' { c4 e g c \bar "||" }<br />
\addlyrics { Arch is the best! }<br />
>><br />
}<br />
<br />
;LOLCODE: Why not?<br />
<br />
HAI<br />
CAN HAS STDIO?<br />
VISIBLE "ARCH IS TEH PWNZ LOL!"<br />
KTHXBYE<br />
<br />
;LTac: The tactic language of Coq, an interactive theorem prover. (Inside of a trivial proof.)<br />
<br />
Goal True. idtac "Arch is the best!". trivial. Qed.<br />
<br />
;Lua: A lightweight, extensible programming language.<br />
<br />
print "Arch is the best!"<br />
<br />
;Malbolge: A language created to make programming as hard as possible.<br />
<br />
bCBA@?>=<;:9876543210/.-,+*)('&%$#"!~}|{zyxwvutsrqponmlkjihgfedcba`_^]<br />
\[ZYXWVUTSRQPONMLKJIHGFEDCBA@?>=<;:9y16543210/.-,+*)('&}C#"!~}|{zyxwvu<br />
tsrqponmlkjihgfedcba`_^]\[ZYXWVUTSRQPONMLK-CgGFEDCBA@?>=<;:98x6543210/<br />
.-,+*)('&%$#"!~}|u;yxwpun4rqpRhmf,jihgIe^$ba`_^]\[ZYXQVUTMqQPONMFjJI+A<br />
eEDC%A:^>=<|:981U54t21*/.-&Jk)('&}C#"!aw={z\xwvun4lqpi/mlkjiKaf_%p<br />
<br />
;Matlab: A proprietary programming language developed by MathWorks.<br />
<br />
disp('Arch is the best!');<br />
<br />
;Morpho: Morpho is a multi-paradigm programming language that supports procedural, object-oriented and functional programming.<br />
<br />
writeln("Arch is the best!");<br />
<br />
;Myrddin: A system programming language which aims for control and simplicity, featuring strong type checking, generics, type inference, closures, and traits.<br />
<br />
/* mbld -b aitb aitb.myr */<br />
use std<br />
const main = {<br />
std.put("Arch is the best!\n")<br />
}<br />
<br />
;NASM / Yasm (i686): Notice that the string is in the .text section, which feels superior.<br />
<br />
;nasm -f elf32 arch.asm<br />
;ld -o arch arch.o<br />
;./arch<br />
<br />
section .text<br />
global _start<br />
_start:<br />
mov edx,len<br />
mov ecx,msg<br />
mov ebx,1<br />
mov eax,4<br />
int 0x80<br />
xor ebx,ebx<br />
mov eax,1<br />
int 0x80<br />
msg: db "Arch is the best!",10<br />
len equ $-msg<br />
<br />
;NASM / Yasm (x86_64) :Featuring AMD's sexy new instruction, ''syscall''.<br />
<br />
;nasm -f elf64 arch.asm<br />
;ld -o arch arch.o<br />
;./arch<br />
<br />
section .text<br />
global _start<br />
s:<br />
db 'Arch is the best!',0ah<br />
l equ $-s<br />
_start:<br />
mov rax,1<br />
mov rdi,1<br />
mov rsi,s<br />
mov rdx,l<br />
syscall<br />
mov rax,60<br />
xor rdi,rdi<br />
syscall<br />
<br />
;Nim:Portable lightweight programming language.<br />
<br />
echo "Arch is the best!"<br />
<br />
;node.js: a platform built on Chrome's JavaScript runtime for easily building fast, scalable network applications, using an event-driven, non-blocking I/O model that makes it lightweight and efficient, perfect for data-intensive real-time applications that run across distributed devices.<br />
<br />
console.log('Arch is the best!');<br />
<br />
;node.js (http server): A node.js program to beam the info that 'Arch is the best!' using HTTP<br />
<br />
require('http').createServer((req,res) => {res.writeHead(200, {'Content-Type': 'text/plain'});res.end('Arch is the best!');}).listen(80);<br />
<br />
;Objective-C: A reflective, object-oriented programming language that adds Smalltalk-style messaging to the C programming language.<br />
<br />
NSLog(@"Arch is the best!");<br />
<br />
;OCaml: The main implementation of the Caml programming language.<br />
<br />
print_endline "Arch is the best!"<br />
<br />
;Octave: High-level interpreted language, primarily intended for numerical computations.<br />
<br />
printf("Arch is the best!\n")<br />
<br />
;Ook!: brainfuck, translated to Orangutan.<br />
<br />
Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook? Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook? Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook? Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook! Ook? Ook. Ook? Ook! Ook? Ook! Ook! Ook. Ook? Ook. Ook. Ook? Ook. Ook? Ook! Ook? Ook. Ook! Ook! Ook. Ook? Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook? Ook. Ook? Ook! Ook. Ook? Ook. Ook? Ook! Ook. Ook? Ook. Ook! Ook? Ook! Ook! Ook? Ook! Ook. Ook? Ook! Ook? Ook! Ook! Ook? Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook? Ook? Ook! Ook? Ook. Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook. Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook! Ook. Ook? Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook! Ook? Ook! Ook! Ook? Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook? Ook? Ook! Ook? Ook. Ook! Ook. Ook. Ook? Ook. Ook? Ook. Ook. Ook! Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook! Ook. Ook? Ook. Ook? Ook. Ook! Ook. Ook. Ook? Ook. Ook? Ook. Ook. Ook! Ook. Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook. Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook. Ook? Ook. Ook? Ook. Ook! Ook. Ook. Ook? Ook. Ook? Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook! Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook! Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook! Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook! Ook. Ook? Ook. Ook? Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook! Ook. Ook! Ook? Ook! Ook! Ook? Ook! Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook. Ook! Ook.<br />
<br />
;Pascal: An influential imperative and procedural programming language.<br />
<br />
program ArchIsTheBest;<br />
begin<br />
writeln('Arch is the best!');<br />
end.<br />
<br />
;PDF: A language used for talking to printers.<br />
<br />
%PDF-1.1<br />
<br />
1 0 obj<br />
<< /Type /Catalog<br />
/Pages 2 0 R<br />
>><br />
endobj<br />
<br />
2 0 obj<br />
<< /Type /Pages<br />
/Kids [3 0 R]<br />
/Count 1<br />
/MediaBox [0 0 595 842]<br />
>><br />
endobj<br />
<br />
3 0 obj<br />
<< /Type /Page<br />
/Parent 2 0 R<br />
/Resources<br />
<< /Font<br />
<< /F1<br />
<< /Type /Font<br />
/Subtype /Type1<br />
/BaseFont /Times-Roman<br />
>><br />
>><br />
>><br />
/Contents 4 0 R<br />
>><br />
endobj<br />
<br />
4 0 obj<br />
<< /Length 48 >><br />
stream<br />
BT<br />
/F1 72 Tf<br />
55 460 Td<br />
(Arch is the best!) Tj<br />
ET<br />
endstream<br />
endobj<br />
<br />
xref<br />
0 5<br />
0000000000 65535 f <br />
0000000016 00000 n <br />
0000000066 00000 n <br />
0000000148 00000 n <br />
0000000303 00000 n <br />
trailer<br />
<< /Root 1 0 R<br />
/Size 5<br />
>><br />
startxref<br />
402<br />
%%EOF<br />
<br />
;Perl: A high-level, general-purpose, interpreted, dynamic programming language.<br />
<br />
#!/usr/bin/env perl<br />
print "Arch is the best!\n";<br />
<br />
;Perl 6: The latest member of the Perl family.<br />
<br />
#!/usr/bin/env perl6<br />
say 'Arch is the best!';<br />
<br />
;PHP: A general-purpose scripting language.<br />
<br />
<?php<br />
echo "Arch is the best!\n";<br />
<br />
;Pixilang: Make me pixels.<br />
<br />
print("Arch is the best!",0,0,#1897D1)<br />
frame<br />
<br />
;Pony:An object-oriented, actor-model, capabilities-secure, high performance programming language.<br />
<br />
actor Main<br />
new create(env: Env) =><br />
env.out.print("Arch is the best!")<br />
<br />
;Portable GNU assembler: {{ic|as -o arch.o arch.s && ld -o arch -O0 arch.o}}<br />
<br />
.section .data<br />
archIsBest:<br />
.ascii "Arch is the best!\n"<br />
archIsBest_len:<br />
.long . - archIsBest<br />
.section .text<br />
.globl _start<br />
_start:<br />
xorl %ebx, %ebx<br />
movl $4, %eax<br />
xorl %ebx, %ebx<br />
incl %ebx<br />
leal archIsBest, %ecx<br />
movl archIsBest_len, %edx<br />
int $0x80<br />
xorl %eax, %eax<br />
incl %eax<br />
xorl %ebx, %ebx<br />
int $0x80<br />
<br />
;Porth: Stack-based like Forth but in python.<br />
<br />
include "std.porth"<br />
proc main in<br />
"Arch is the best!" puts<br />
end<br />
<br />
;PostScript: An older language used for talking to printers.<br />
<br />
%!PS<br />
/monospace 60 selectfont<br />
10 420 moveto<br />
(Arch is the best!) show<br />
showpage<br />
<br />
;Powershell: A task-based command-line shell and scripting language built on .NET.<br />
<br />
Write-Output "Arch is the best!"<br />
<br />
;Processing: An open source programming language and IDE built for the electronic arts and visual design.<br />
<br />
println("Arch is the best!");<br />
<br />
;Prolog: A general purpose logic programming language associated with artificial intelligence and computational linguistics.<br />
<br />
format('Arch is the best~n',[]).<br />
<br />
;Python: A general-purpose high-level programming language.<br />
<br />
print('Arch is the best!')<br />
<br />
;q (kdb+): A programming language for array processing used as the query language for kdb+.<br />
<br />
show "Arch is the best!"<br />
<br />
;QBASIC: An interpreter for a variant of the BASIC programming language which is based on QuickBASIC.<br />
<br />
PRINT "Arch is the best!"<br />
<br />
;QML: A superset of JavaScript used to build GUIs in a declarative fashion. Part of the Qt framework.<br />
<br />
import QtQuick.Controls 2.15<br />
<br />
Label{<br />
text: "Arch is the best!"<br />
font.pixelSize: 22<br />
}<br />
<br />
<br />
;R: A language for statistical computing (and much more!).<br />
<br />
archIsBest <- function() { cat("Arch is the best!\n") }<br />
archIsBest()<br />
<br />
;Racket: A general purpose, multi-paradigm programming language in the Lisp-Scheme family.<br />
<br />
#lang racket<br />
<br />
(let ([str "Arch is the best!\n"])<br />
(write-string str)<br />
(values))<br />
<br />
;Ruby: A dynamic, reflective, general purpose object-oriented programming language.<br />
<br />
#!/usr/bin/ruby -w<br />
puts 'Arch is the best!'<br />
<br />
;Rust: Rust is a systems programming language that runs blazingly fast, prevents almost all crashes, and eliminates data races.<br />
<br />
fn main() {<br />
println!("Arch is the best!");<br />
}<br />
<br />
;Salt: Salt is an automation framework<br />
<br />
salt '*' event.fire '{"data":"Arch Is the best!"}' 'arch/best'<br />
<br />
;Scala: A multi paradigm language that runs on the JVM.<br />
<br />
object ArchIsBest extends App {<br />
println("Arch is the best!")<br />
}<br />
<br />
;Scratch: A block based programming language made by MIT.<br />
<br />
[https://scratchblocks.github.io/#?style=scratch3&script=when%20green%20flag%20clicked%0Asay%20%5BArch%20is%20the%20best!%5D%0A Link to scratchblocks where you can see what it would look like as actual scratch code]<br />
when green flag clicked<br />
say [Arch is the best!]<br />
<br />
;Scheme: A dialect of Lisp.<br />
<br />
(display "Arch is the best!\n")<br />
<br />
;Seed: A library and interpreter, dynamically bridging the WebKit JavaScriptCore engine, with the GNOME platform.<br />
<br />
#!/usr/bin/env seed<br />
print ('Arch is the best');<br />
<br />
;Shakespeare Programming Language: Designed to "''make a language with beautiful source code'' [...]"<br />
<br />
Arch is the Best.<br />
<br />
Arthur, a young man who is the best.<br />
Isabella, a likewise young woman who be.<br />
The Ghost, an undead who is the article.<br />
Beatrice, a young woman who is an adjective.<br />
<br />
<br />
Act I: Setting of the Variables.<br />
<br />
Scene I: Setting of Isabella and Arthur.<br />
<br />
[Enter Arthur and Isabella]<br />
<br />
Arthur:<br />
You are as dirty as the square of the sum of a rotten smelly foul devil<br />
and a vile lie! You are as bold as the sum of yourself and an evil hog!<br />
<br />
Isabella:<br />
Thou art as big as the square of a cute fair sweet flower! You are as proud<br />
as the sum of thyself and a cow.<br />
<br />
[Exit Arthur]<br />
<br />
Scene II: Setting of The Ghost.<br />
<br />
[Enter The Ghost]<br />
<br />
Isabella:<br />
You art as loving as myself. Thou are as huge as the sum of yourself and twice<br />
a red old hair. You are as cowardly as the sum of yourself and a fat goat!<br />
<br />
[Exit Isabella]<br />
<br />
Scene III: Setting of Beatrice.<br />
<br />
[Enter Beatrice]<br />
<br />
The Ghost:<br />
Thou are as good as the sum of Isabella and a mighty fine rich noble King.<br />
<br />
[Exeunt The Ghost and Beatrice]<br />
<br />
Act II: Printing Arch is the Best.<br />
<br />
Scene I: Arch.<br />
<br />
[Enter Arthur and Beatrice]<br />
<br />
Beatrice:<br />
Speak thy mind! You art as peaceful as the quotient between thyself and the<br />
clearest Lord.<br />
<br />
Arthur:<br />
Speak your mind!<br />
<br />
[Exeunt Arthur and Beatrice]<br />
<br />
[Enter Isabella and The Ghost]<br />
<br />
The Ghost:<br />
Thou are as normal as the sum of thyself and a town. Speak thy mind!<br />
<br />
Isabella:<br />
Speak your mind!<br />
<br />
[Exit Isabella]<br />
<br />
[Enter Arthur]<br />
<br />
The Ghost:<br />
Speak thy mind!<br />
<br />
[Exit Arthur]<br />
<br />
Scene II: is.<br />
<br />
[Enter Beatrice]<br />
<br />
Beatrice:<br />
Thou are as old as the sum of yourself and a nose. Speak your mind!<br />
<br />
The Ghost:<br />
You art as pretty as the sum of thyself and a face. Speak your mind.<br />
<br />
[Exit The Ghost]<br />
<br />
[Enter Arthur]<br />
<br />
Beatrice:<br />
Speak thy mind.<br />
<br />
Scene III: the.<br />
<br />
Arthur:<br />
You are as blue as the sum of yourself and a hamster. Speak thy mind!<br />
<br />
[Exit Arthur]<br />
<br />
[Enter The Ghost]<br />
<br />
Beatrice:<br />
You are as prompt as the sum of thyself and a lie! Speak your mind.<br />
<br />
[Exit Beatrice]<br />
<br />
[Enter Isabella]<br />
<br />
The Ghost:<br />
You art as happy as the sum of thyself and a large moon. Speak thy mind!<br />
<br />
[Exit The Ghost]<br />
<br />
[Enter Arthur]<br />
<br />
Isabella:<br />
Speak thy mind.<br />
<br />
[Exit Arthur]<br />
<br />
Scene IV: Best.<br />
<br />
[Enter Beatrice]<br />
<br />
Beatrice:<br />
Thou are as blue as the sum of the sum of a curse and thyself and a bad<br />
codpiece. Speak your mind! You art as lovely as the sum of the sum of the<br />
happiness and yourself and a blossoming flower. Speak thy mind.<br />
<br />
Isabella:<br />
You are as healthy as the sum of yourself and a plague! Speak thy mind.<br />
Thou art as huge as the sum of thyself and a hero. Speak your mind!<br />
<br />
[Exit Beatrice]<br />
<br />
[Enter Arthur]<br />
<br />
Isabella:<br />
You art as green as the sum of thyself and a mother. Speak your mind.<br />
<br />
[Exeunt]<br />
<br />
;Shoes: A Ruby version using Shoes for a GUI.<br />
<br />
Shoes.app :width => 135, :height => 30 do<br />
para "Arch is the Best!"<br />
end<br />
<br />
;Smalltalk: Smalltalk is an object-oriented, dynamically typed, reflective programming language.<br />
<br />
Transcript show: 'Arch is the best!'.<br />
<br />
;Solidity: Object-oriented programming language for Ethereum smart contracts.<br />
<br />
pragma solidity ^0.6.0;<br />
<br />
contract ArchIsTheBest {<br />
function archIsTheBest() external pure returns (string memory) {<br />
return "Arch is the best!";<br />
}<br />
}<br />
<br />
;SQL: Structured Query Language, the query language for relational databases<br />
<br />
SELECT 'Arch is the best!';<br />
SELECT 'Arch is the best!' from dual; -- for Oracle DB<br />
<br />
;Standard ML: A general-purpose, modular, functional programming language with compile-time type checking and type inference.<br />
<br />
print "Arch is the best!\n"<br />
<br />
;Swift: A general-purpose, multi-paradigm, compiled programming language developed by Apple Inc.<br />
<br />
print("Arch is the best!")<br />
<br />
;Tcl/Tk: A scripting language that is commonly used for rapid prototyping, scripted applications, GUIs and testing.<br />
<br />
#!/usr/bin/env tclsh<br />
puts "Arch is the best!"<br />
<br />
;TeX: A typesetting language aimed at scientific publishing. Famous for giving the ability to describe complicated equations in a plain text format. The basis for the more famous LaTeX.<br />
<br />
Arch is the best!<br />
\bye<br />
<br />
;TrumpScript: A scripting language based on President Trump's words.<br />
<br />
say it with me, "Arch is the best!";<br />
america is great.<br />
<br />
;UEFI: An extensible firmware framework<br />
<br />
#include <Uefi.h><br />
EFI_STATUS EFIAPI<br />
ArchIsTheBest (<br />
IN EFI_HANDLE ImageHandle,<br />
IN EFI_SYSTEM_TABLE *SystemTable<br />
)<br />
{<br />
SystemTable -> ConOut-> OutputString(SystemTable->ConOut, L"Arch is the best!\n"); <br />
return EFI_SUCCESS;<br />
}<br />
<br />
; V: Simple, fast, safe, compiled language for developing maintainable software.<br />
<br />
fn main() {<br />
println('Arch is the best!')<br />
}<br />
<br />
;Vala: Vala is a new programming language that aims to bring modern programming language features to GNOME developers without imposing any additional runtime requirements and without using a different ABI compared to applications and libraries written in C.<br />
<br />
void main(string[] args) {<br />
stdout.printf("\nArch is the best!\n\n");<br />
}<br />
<br />
; var'aq: [https://freshmeat.sourceforge.net/projects/varaq A warrior's programming language]<br />
"Arch maj law' Hoch maj puS!" cha'<br />
<br />
; Verilog: A hardware description language, standardized as IEEE 1364<br />
module top;<br />
initial $display("Arch is the best!");<br />
endmodule<br />
<br />
; VHDL: VHSIC Hardware Description Language<br />
<br />
use std.textio.all;<br />
<br />
entity top is<br />
end top;<br />
<br />
architecture behaviour of top is begin<br />
process begin<br />
write (output, String'("Arch is the best!"));<br />
wait;<br />
end process;<br />
end behaviour;<br />
<br />
;VimScript: A scripting language for the Vim text editor.<br />
<br />
echo "Arch is the best!"<br />
<br />
;Visual Basic: A third-generation event-driven programming language and integrated development environment (IDE) from Microsoft for its Component Object Model (COM) programming model.<br />
<br />
Module Arch<br />
Sub Main()<br />
MsgBox("Arch is the best!")<br />
End Sub<br />
End Module<br />
<br />
;wenyan-lang: A programming language for the ancient Chinese.<br />
<br />
吾有一言。曰「「阿祺,盡善矣。」」。書之。<br />
<br />
; Wiring (Arduino):Built on Processing, the open source programming language developed at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology.<br />
<br />
void setup()<br />
{<br />
Serial.begin(9600);<br />
}<br />
void loop()<br />
{<br />
Serial.print("Arch is the best!");<br />
}<br />
<br />
; Wolfram: Proprietary programming language developed by Wolfram Inc which emphasizes symbolic computation, functional programming, and rule-based programming.<br />
<br />
Print["Arch is the best"]<br />
<br />
; X11: X11 is an architecture independent system for display of graphical user interfaces.<br />
{{ic|cc -lX11 arch.c}}<br />
<br />
#include <stdio.h><br />
#include <stdlib.h><br />
#include <string.h><br />
<br />
#include <X11/Xlib.h><br />
<br />
int main()<br />
{<br />
Display *d;<br />
Window w;<br />
XEvent e;<br />
int s;<br />
<br />
if (!(d = XOpenDisplay(NULL))) {<br />
fprintf(stderr, "Couldn't open display, but Arch is the best!\n");<br />
exit(1);<br />
}<br />
<br />
s = DefaultScreen(d);<br />
w = XCreateSimpleWindow(d, RootWindow(d,s), 0, 0, 110, 20, 0, <br />
0, WhitePixel(d,s));<br />
XSelectInput(d, w, ExposureMask | KeyPressMask);<br />
XMapWindow(d,w);<br />
<br />
while (1) {<br />
XNextEvent(d, &e);<br />
if (e.type == Expose) {<br />
XDrawString(d, w, DefaultGC(d, s), 5, 15, "Arch is the best!", 17);<br />
}<br />
}<br />
<br />
XCloseDisplay(d);<br />
return 0;<br />
}<br />
<br />
;Z3: A theorem prover from Microsoft Research<br />
<br />
(define-const arch String "Arch is the best")<br />
(simplify (str.++ arch))<br />
<br />
;Zig: A general-purpose programming language and toolchain for maintaining robust, optimal, and reusable software. Intends to deprecate C.<br />
<br />
const std = @import("std");<br />
<br />
pub fn main() !void {<br />
std.debug.warn("Arch is the best!\n", .{});<br />
}<br />
<br />
;Zimbu: A fast, easy to learn, and JS-like programming language.<br />
<br />
FUNC Main() int<br />
IO.write("Arch is the best!")<br />
RETURN 0<br />
}<br />
<br />
;Zsh: A UNIX command interpreter (shell) closely resembling ksh, but includes many enhancements.<br />
<br />
#!/bin/zsh -f<br />
setopt extendedglob<br />
print -- $(echoti setaf 2) ${$(<<<${${${(@j: :)${(@s:_:)${:-What_Linux_is_the_best?}}}/* (#b)([A-Z]i)/Arch $match[1]}} tr '?' '!')} $terminfo[sgr0]</div>Margalihttps://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Talk:Fwupd&diff=755647Talk:Fwupd2022-11-02T06:38:01Z<p>Margali: /* 2. What is the .service for? */ new section</p>
<hr />
<div>== fwupd doesn't detect UEFI ESP partition mounted to {{ic|/efi}} ==<br />
<br />
I just did a fresh install on my machine, and put my UEFI ESP directory at {{ic|/efi}} as suggested in https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/installation_guide#Mount_the_file_systems . When I went to set up fwupd I ran `fwupdmgr refresh` and received a warning directing me to this url: https://github.com/fwupd/fwupd/wiki/PluginFlag:esp-not-found<br />
<br />
Not wanting to deal with moving my ESP partition's mount point, I use the solution mentioned there by setting OverrideESPMountPoint directly.<br />
<br />
I wonder if there is another problem with my system that this wasn't detected properly? If not, should we 1. the installation instructions 2. add a message to this article to avoid this problem?<br />
<br />
{{Unsigned|00:25, 22 November 2020 (UTC)|Idbentley}}<br />
<br />
:I have now added the issue to the troubleshooting section. [[User:Adrian5|Adrian5]] ([[User talk:Adrian5|talk]]) 14:58, 19 February 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Why not just add a simple comment like, "''Ensure [[udisks2]] is installed, otherwise '''fwupdmgr''' will fail to detect your '''esp'''''"? This can be added in the main section '''Setup for UEFI upgrade'''. Since it's not, I spent too much time reading the main instructions, thinking I was doing something wrong. [[User:Pound Hash|Pound Hash]] ([[User talk:Pound Hash|talk]]) 23:06, 24 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== 2. What is the .service for? ==<br />
<br />
The wiki mentions restarting the .service, but I couldn't find anywhere it mentions either starting or enabling it. What is it for? I've updated a couple of times using this package, but I've not enabled the service that I know of and had no idea that might even be a thing. --[[User:Margali|cfr]] ([[User talk:Margali|talk]]) 06:38, 2 November 2022 (UTC)</div>Margalihttps://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Talk:Intel_graphics&diff=755529Talk:Intel graphics2022-11-01T18:20:15Z<p>Margali: /* Tips on identifying hardware? */ +</p>
<hr />
<div>== [drm:intel_pipe_update_start [i915]] *ERROR* Potential atomic update failure on pipe A ==<br />
<br />
Maybe the solution to get rid of the above dmesg log spamming could be mentioned? You just add `options i915 enable_psr=0` to the file `/etc/modprobe.d/i915.conf`. [[User:Bjourne|Bjourne]] ([[User talk:Bjourne|talk]]) 17:04, 19 August 2016 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Backlight is not adjustable after trying various acpi_osi values ==<br />
<br />
[http://unix.stackexchange.com/q/315178/3645 Full details] on Stack Exchange.<br />
<br />
{{unsigned|20:04, 8 October 2016|L0b0}}<br />
<br />
== DRI3 confusion ==<br />
<br />
I've seen in the forum people ask from time to time how to enable DRI3 on their system.<br />
<br />
As stated many times there, DRI3 should be on for most (if not all) of them. But people keep telling them to check<br />
<br />
cat /var/log/Xorg.0.log | grep DRI<br />
<br />
which shows up this message:<br />
<br />
GLX: Initialized DRI2 GL provider for screen 0<br />
<br />
which is *not accurate*.<br />
<br />
If you run this command instead:<br />
<br />
LC_ALL=C LIBGL_DEBUG=verbose glxinfo | grep DRI<br />
<br />
you might stump with this other message:<br />
<br />
libGL: Using DRI3 for screen 0<br />
<br />
which proves you are using DRI3 even though X11 doesn't reply with the correct information.<br />
<br />
The command was adapted from [https://lists.x.org/archives/xorg-devel/2014-June/042735.html xorg mailing list].<br />
<br />
So, it think adding this information in the page could be of major interest. What do you think?<br />
<br />
[[User:Franzrogar|Franzrogar]] ([[User talk:Franzrogar|talk]]) 07:01, 4 November 2016 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Guide for screen scaling with external displays via xrandr? ==<br />
<br />
I tried to find instructions for scaling the display resolution without stretching on this wiki page, but the section only says that it's not implemented in the Intel drivers yet. However, [https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/220387/how-to-set-scaling-mode-for-external-displays-on-intel-gpu this stackexchange thread] has a workaround using an xrandr transform matrix. Should this be added to the wiki page?<br />
<br />
[[User:Ibara|Ibara]] ([[User talk:Ibara|talk]]) 12:35, 22 May 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Screen flickering ==<br />
Intel's power saving features might lead to flickering on some devices visible in the desktop, login manager and even in the konsole. Add the kernel parameter {{ic|1=intel_idle.max_cstate=1}} and reboot.<br />
<br />
{{unsigned|20:57, 3 November 2020|R41n3r}}<br />
<br />
== Driver issues on 11th Gen CPU ==<br />
<br />
I've just left a comment in [[Talk:Dell_XPS_13_(9310)#Video drivers]] about issues with modesetting drivers on the new XPS 13. The issue appears when using modesetting drivers and is resolved when installing the xf86-video-intel package, which seems to go against most of the advice in this Wiki and the internet at large. The issue is not simple to describe, so I will just copy-paste what I've written on the other page: "some weird jittery behaviour in the rendering of text. For example, when attempting to type 'wiki.archlinux.org' in a browser address field the text rendering would suddenly jump back by 1/2 strokes (I'm typing 'ch', the 'c' appears shortly but the screen immediately refreshes to only show 'wiki.a') and refuse to update for maybe a second. It would then catch up if I kept typing."<br />
Is this a known issue with 11th Gen Intel CPUs? The model I have has an i7-1165G7, which includes the new Intel Iris Xe Graphics.<br />
[[User:Avernan|Avernan]] ([[User talk:Avernan|talk]]) 17:16, 30 December 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
: I have an 11th Gen CPU (i7-1165G7), and the integrated GPU is {{ic|Intel TigerLake-LP GT2 [Iris Xe Graphics]}} according to neofetch. I was experiencing mouse flickering and lots of screen tearing with the modesetting driver, and this was only able to be resolved by installing x86-video-intel. The wiki page should be updated to mention this, but I'm not sure the best way to go about it. [[User:Makeworld|Makeworld]] ([[User talk:Makeworld|talk]]) 02:35, 15 July 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::That's pretty bad. Perhaps there could be a bulleted list within the Note, of issues with the modesetting driver. For those new items, we would prefer to have some sort of bug report to link to (rather than "original reports" without external recognition). -- [[User:CodingKoopa|CodingKoopa]] ([[User talk:CodingKoopa|talk]]) 04:16, 15 July 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::: Additionally I noticed a large reduction in CPU frequency when video conferencing (Google Meet in Chromium), which means better powersaving and no fans spinning up. And yeah, my concern was that I have nowhere to link to to back up my claim of issues. Not sure where to file a bug report, but I'm also not sure how appropriate it would even be. Obviously this is buggy behaviour from modesetting, but it feels a bit unfair to complain about modesetting when there are Intel drivers right there that work and solve the problem. [[User:Makeworld|Makeworld]] ([[User talk:Makeworld|talk]]) 16:16, 15 July 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::I think it's totally fair, actually. modesetting represents a modern take on Xorg drivers: When it comes to hardware acceleration, rather than implementing the Xorg primitives for each GPU, modesetting uses the [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X.Org_Server#Glamor GLAMOR] backend, which implements the Xorg primitives as OpenGL calls, and then defers to the vendor-specific GPU driver (generally just Mesa). This is considered a better architecture, and is the reason why it's encouraged. Rather than considering it a "fallback" (as the page currently implies), see it as an alternative which leverages your better-maintained 3D stack.<br />
::::In other words, modesetting is intended to be well-supported, and the people behind it actually would care to hear about problems that occur with it. With all of that said, I'm not really sure how the bug report process for it goes. It might be on the FreeDesktop GitLab instance that issues are opened. -- [[User:CodingKoopa|CodingKoopa]] ([[User talk:CodingKoopa|talk]]) 21:29, 15 July 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::: Ah, I didn't realize that's how modesetting worked, thanks. I've filed [https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/xorg/xserver/-/issues/1364 this issue] on the xserver repo as that seems to be the appropriate place. I'm not sure exactly how the wiki Note should be edited to take all these different reports and views into account, are you able to do it now that there's a bug report? If not maybe I can come back to this in a day or two. Thanks. [[User:Makeworld|Makeworld]] ([[User talk:Makeworld|talk]]) 00:16, 17 July 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::::Yeah, I think that's enough. Let's keep this section open though, and see how the issue progresses.<br />
::::::For the source link in that issue, you should change it to https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Talk:Intel_graphics&oldid=737996 so that it will continue to work once this section has been closed and deleted. Thanks, [[User:CodingKoopa|CodingKoopa]] ([[User talk:CodingKoopa|talk]]) 02:31, 17 July 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Washed colors on 7th gen CPU ==<br />
<br />
I found out that my iGPU shows washed colors randomly, but I managed to fix it by adding intel_agp and i915 modules into mkinitcpio.conf and rebuilding the initramfs after that. <br />
<br />
[[User:Myghi63|Paulo Marcos]] 11:37, 24 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Potential performance gains via Observation Architecture ==<br />
<br />
[https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/u7zxa0/psa_for_intel_tiger_lake_dynamic_tuning_laptops/ This /r/linux thread] claims the following:<br />
: Dynamic Tuning is not enabled in most distros due to late Intel KMS. Running "sudo sysctl dev.i915.pref_stream_paranoid=0" drastically improves game performance and clock management on relevant processors, specifically Tiger Lake.<br />
{{ic|dev.i915.perf_stream_paranoid}} was introduced in [https://patchwork.kernel.org/project/dri-devel/patch/20161020211910.4723-8-robert@sixbynine.org/ this Kernel commit], and its usage was [https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/mesa/mesa/-/commit/2001a80d4a81f2e8194b29cca301dd1b27be9acb introduced to Mesa in this commmit]. It now lives in [https://github.com/torvalds/linux/blob/v5.17/drivers/gpu/drm/i915/i915_perf.c linux/drivers/gpu/drm/i915/i915_perf.c]. This setting controls whether "non-root users [are allowed] to access system wide OA counter metrics". OA refers to Intel's [https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Intel-HSW-Observation-Arch Observation Architecture], and is [https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Intel-Mesa-OA-Perf-Counters used to provide performance info to applications].<br><br />
As I understand, the {{ic|perf_stream_paranoid}} family of options all may make a difference in whether applications are able to receive certain performance metrics. This is read-only information, and yet some users are reporting dramatic performance increases. What's more is that it's unclear whether early KMS fixes the issue; [https://forum.manjaro.org/t/cant-change-dev-i915-perf-stream-paranoid-to-0/66339/10 this Manjaro forum post] says it does, but the Reddit OP [https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/u7zxa0/comment/i5ia8go/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3 says otherwise]. Cheers, [[User:CodingKoopa|CodingKoopa]] ([[User talk:CodingKoopa|talk]]) 2022-04-21T02:38:34<br />
<br />
: I don't have the exact hardware to benchmark this, but on my (relatively old now) Skylake processor, I did not feel any difference. Neither from the perf_stream sysctl knob nor from early KMS. --[[User:Erus Iluvatar|Erus Iluvatar]] ([[User talk:Erus Iluvatar|talk]]) 06:55, 21 April 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::[https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Intel-HSW-Observation-Arch Phoronix says that it's Haswell and newer], so your Skylake should just be fine. It's possible that the sysctl option makes no difference (that is, because of the permission to use the performance counter being present anyways), either because of your setup using Early KMS, or because of some Arch default. I think that a good test would be to disable Early KMS (e.g. take the i915 module out of the initrd), and run a program that triggers the {{ic|1=Performance support disabled, consider sysctl dev.i915.perf_stream_paranoid=0}} [https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/mesa/mesa/-/blob/68e8f00c441dc38f5a18a4aa5a30916c53fc986f/src/intel/vulkan/anv_perf.c#L60-L61 codepath]. I'm under the impression that affected applications are Vulkan programs which use the [https://www.khronos.org/registry/vulkan/specs/1.3-extensions/man/html/VK_KHR_performance_query.html VK_KHR_performance_query extension] [https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/mesa/mesa/-/merge_requests/2775]. That said, I'm not sure how to reliably pick out affected programs, seeing as people are reporting this with Wine games, but DXVK does not use this extension. Cheers, [[User:CodingKoopa|CodingKoopa]] ([[User talk:CodingKoopa|talk]]) 17:05, 21 April 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::: I'll try to find some time to benchmark this on the weekend, I probably have some random game on Steam that both uses Vulkan and runs through Wine. --[[User:Erus Iluvatar|Erus Iluvatar]] ([[User talk:Erus Iluvatar|talk]]) 18:35, 21 April 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== TGL/RKL GuC Submission ==<br />
<br />
Hi, I think the table should be called into question for GuC submission being only supported from ADL forward. I have an i5 11400 and it will enable the GuC submission with SLPC and RC.<br />
<br />
https://imgur.com/a/9DB1Xhf<br />
<br />
After trying to set 3, it actually worked. Full GuC submission and HuC auth.<br />
<br />
https://imgur.com/a/WIgYqXI<br />
<br />
{{unsigned|09:48, 24 July 2022|Gmazzo}}<br />
<br />
:Hi, I made that table. Firstly, are you sure that your CPU is an [https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/212270/intel-core-i511400-processor-12m-cache-up-to-4-40-ghz.html i5-11400] and not an [https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/213805/intel-core-i511400h-processor-12m-cache-up-to-4-50-ghz.html i5-11400H]? Your logs indicate that the Tiger Lake firmware is being loaded, whose microarchitecture the i5-11400H corresponds with (specifically Tiger Lake-H). This is as opposed as opposed to the Rocket Lake firmwares, which I would expect the i5-11400 to load. Both are 11th generation CPUs which use Gen12 GPUs, so it shouldn't matter anyways, but I want to make sure I understand, as there ''are'' RKL firmware binaries [https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/firmware/linux-firmware.git/tree/i915 in linux-firmware].<br />
:Tiger Lake and Rocket Lake are both in the area where they ship Gen12 GPUs, but they are not supposed to support GUC submission and power management according to [https://01.org/linuxgraphics/downloads/firmware Intel's own chart]. This is still supported [https://github.com/torvalds/linux/blob/v5.18/drivers/gpu/drm/i915/gt/uc/intel_uc.c#L32-L36 by the source code handling the defaults], too. Yet, what you are experiencing seems to be GuC submission without HuC firmware loading (equivalent to {{ic|1=i915.enable_guc=1}}) ''by default'', which I didn't think is ever the case. Fortunately, at least TGL/RKL supporting HuC authentication is not a revelation, as that is supported by the Intel docs.<br />
:So, yeah, it does sound like the table is wrong about your CPU's default behavior. From what I understand about what the kernel is doing:<br />
:* GuC and HuC are uninitialized. [https://github.com/torvalds/linux/blob/v5.18/drivers/gpu/drm/i915/gt/uc/intel_uc_fw.h#L22-L44]<br />
:* The defaults laid out in the table are set, if {{ic|enable_guc}} is unset.<br />
:* '''Regardless of the settings''', {{ic|intel_uc_init_early}} in intel_uc.c calls {{ic|intel_guc_init_early()}} and {{ic|intel_huc_init_early()}}, each of which does minimal initialization to determine if the hardware is supported.<br />
:* Throughout intel_uc.c, {{ic|intel_uc_supports_guc()}} is called to see if GuC is supported.<br />
:** The definition for {{ic|intel_uc_supports_guc()}} is generated by a macro in [https://github.com/torvalds/linux/blob/v5.18/drivers/gpu/drm/i915/gt/uc/intel_uc.h#L74-L83 intel_uc.h] (annoying when I can't just grep for it :p). This defers to {{ic|intel_guc_is_supported()}}.<br />
:** {{ic|intel_uc_fw_is_supported()}} in [https://github.com/torvalds/linux/blob/70664fc10c0d722ec79d746d8ac1db8546c94114/drivers/gpu/drm/i915/gt/uc/intel_uc_fw.h#L203 intel_guc_fw.h] checks the result of the minimal initialization to see if it was successful (and therefore possible to do further initialization if desired).<br />
:* Also in intel_uc.c, {{ic|intel_uc_supports_guc_submission()}} is called to see if GuC submission is supported.<br />
:** The definition for {{ic|intel_uc_supports_guc_submission()}} is also generated by a macro which defers to {{ic|intel_guc_submission_is_supported()}}.<br />
:** {{ic|intel_guc_submission_is_supported()}} in [https://github.com/torvalds/linux/blob/v5.18/drivers/gpu/drm/i915/gt/uc/intel_guc_submission.h intel_guc_submission.h] checks an internal variable set by [https://github.com/torvalds/linux/blob/v5.18/drivers/gpu/drm/i915/gt/uc/intel_guc_submission.c#L3805-L3810 __guc_submission_supported()]. The requirements are that GuC is supported, and that the GPU must be '''Gen11 or newer''' (not Gen12 or newer!)<br />
:*Only now is the firmware actually loaded. From intel_guc.c: <br />
::{{bc|<nowiki>* Enabling the GuC is not mandatory and therefore the firmware is only loaded<br />
* if at least one of the operations is selected.</nowiki>}}<br />
:That __guc_submission_supported implementation conflicts with Intel's documentation: GuC submission is seemingly available on some Gen11 GPUs.<br />
:Now, GuC submission being ''possible'' is one story, but it being enabled by ''default'' is another. At the moment, I do not see why this would be the case. I would be curious to see what is logged on an affected TGL/RKL system with the {{ic|drm_dbg}} messages enabled (recompiling the kernel with different settings is probably necessary. <br />
:-- Thanks, [[User:CodingKoopa|CodingKoopa]] ([[User talk:CodingKoopa|talk]]) 19:27, 24 July 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:: Hi, Guc submission seems to be possible on my system as well by setting {{ic|1=options i915 enable_guc=3}}:<br />
<br />
$ uname -r<br />
5.19.12-arch1-1<br />
<br />
$ cat /proc/cpuinfo<br />
model name : 11th Gen Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-1165G7 @ 2.80GHz<br />
<br />
$ lspci -k<br />
00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation TigerLake-LP GT2 [Iris Xe Graphics] (rev 01)<br />
DeviceName: Onboard - Video<br />
Subsystem: Micro-Star International Co., Ltd. [MSI] Device 12e1<br />
<br />
{{hc|1=$ sudo dmesg {{!}} grep i915|2=<br />
[ 1.009923] i915 0000:00:02.0: [drm] VT-d active for gfx access<br />
[ 1.010006] i915 0000:00:02.0: vgaarb: deactivate vga console<br />
[ 1.010043] i915 0000:00:02.0: [drm] Transparent Hugepage mode 'huge=within_size'<br />
[ 1.018442] i915 0000:00:02.0: vgaarb: changed VGA decodes: olddecodes=io+mem,decodes=io+mem:owns=io+mem<br />
[ 1.020342] i915 0000:00:02.0: [drm] Finished loading DMC firmware i915/tgl_dmc_ver2_12.bin (v2.12)<br />
[ 1.157918] i915 0000:00:02.0: [drm] GuC firmware i915/tgl_guc_70.1.1.bin version 70.1<br />
[ 1.157921] i915 0000:00:02.0: [drm] HuC firmware i915/tgl_huc_7.9.3.bin version 7.9<br />
[ 1.161434] i915 0000:00:02.0: [drm] HuC authenticated<br />
[ 1.161777] i915 0000:00:02.0: [drm] GuC submission enabled<br />
[ 1.161778] i915 0000:00:02.0: [drm] GuC SLPC enabled<br />
[ 1.162428] i915 0000:00:02.0: [drm] GuC RC: enabled<br />
[ 1.165574] i915 0000:00:02.0: [drm] Protected Xe Path (PXP) protected content support initialized<br />
[ 1.167372] [drm] Initialized i915 1.6.0 20201103 for 0000:00:02.0 on minor 0<br />
[ 1.170411] fbcon: i915drmfb (fb0) is primary device<br />
[ 1.170414] i915 0000:00:02.0: [drm] fb0: i915drmfb frame buffer device<br />
[ 3.670049] mei_hdcp 0000:00:16.0-b638ab7e-94e2-4ea2-a552-d1c54b627f04: bound 0000:00:02.0 (ops i915_hdcp_component_ops [i915])<br />
[ 3.684363] mei_pxp 0000:00:16.0-fbf6fcf1-96cf-4e2e-a6a6-1bab8cbe36b1: bound 0000:00:02.0 (ops i915_pxp_tee_component_ops [i915])<br />
[ 4.070745] sof-audio-pci-intel-tgl 0000:00:1f.3: bound 0000:00:02.0 (ops i915_audio_component_bind_ops [i915])<br />
}}<br />
:: -- [[User:Cvlc|Cvlc]] ([[User talk:Cvlc|talk]]) 20:18, 30 September 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::Thanks for sharing! There are a few more things I am curious about:<br />
:::* What kernel version is this (e.g. {{ic|pacman -Qi linux}})? It might be necessary for me to know if I take it up with the Intel Linux folk.<br />
:::* What CPU is this? I can see that the Tiger Lake blob is getting loaded, but I am still curious to know the exact model.<br />
:::* What is the behavior if you boot without the {{ic|enable_guc}} kernel parameter?<br />
:::Finally, if you are able to do so, to get more messages from i915 you can try booting with the {{ic|1=dyndbg="module i915 +p"}} kernel parameter. This will enable [[General troubleshooting#Dynamic debugging|dynamic debugging]] for the Intel kernel module. -- [[User:CodingKoopa|CodingKoopa]] ([[User talk:CodingKoopa|talk]]) 21:36, 1 October 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:: I updated my previous post above with kernel / cpu details for clarity. If I boot without the {{ic|enable_guc}} kernel parameter, there is no huc/guc reference at all in either dmesg or journalctl, so default seems to be "all off". I don't see any difference in logs when booting with {{ic|1=dyndbg="module i915 +p"}}, but maybe I'm not reading from the right place..! Apparently some [https://www.phoronix.com/news/Intel-i915-Versioned-Firmware changes are being made], so the behavior might be different in the next kernel versions. By the way, is there any way to verify or see guc/huc in action (something like {{ic|intel_gpu_top}} but specific) ?<br />
::-- [[User:Cvlc|Cvlc]] ([[User talk:Cvlc|talk]]) 21:12, 2 October 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Tips on identifying hardware? ==<br />
<br />
It would be helpful to include either a link (if the information is elsewhere in the wiki) or information explaining how to determine which chip you have and how that relates to the various names seen on this page, PKGBUILDs etc. I've got integrated Intel graphics and a sticker on my machine says my i5 is 7th generation, but how does this relate to e.g. '<= Haswell' vs. '>= Broadwell' (as in the libva PKGBUILD), 'skylake' vs. other lakes, non-lakes etc.). I assume this more basic identification is somewhere on the wiki, but this is the page I landed on trying to find it. Or is this the Wikipedia page? From the description, I assume that will tell me about the differences, but not how to determine what I've got. --[[User:Margali|cfr]] ([[User talk:Margali|talk]]) 18:18, 1 November 2022 (UTC)</div>Margalihttps://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Talk:Intel_graphics&diff=755528Talk:Intel graphics2022-11-01T18:18:14Z<p>Margali: /* Tips on identifying hardware? */ new section</p>
<hr />
<div>== [drm:intel_pipe_update_start [i915]] *ERROR* Potential atomic update failure on pipe A ==<br />
<br />
Maybe the solution to get rid of the above dmesg log spamming could be mentioned? You just add `options i915 enable_psr=0` to the file `/etc/modprobe.d/i915.conf`. [[User:Bjourne|Bjourne]] ([[User talk:Bjourne|talk]]) 17:04, 19 August 2016 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Backlight is not adjustable after trying various acpi_osi values ==<br />
<br />
[http://unix.stackexchange.com/q/315178/3645 Full details] on Stack Exchange.<br />
<br />
{{unsigned|20:04, 8 October 2016|L0b0}}<br />
<br />
== DRI3 confusion ==<br />
<br />
I've seen in the forum people ask from time to time how to enable DRI3 on their system.<br />
<br />
As stated many times there, DRI3 should be on for most (if not all) of them. But people keep telling them to check<br />
<br />
cat /var/log/Xorg.0.log | grep DRI<br />
<br />
which shows up this message:<br />
<br />
GLX: Initialized DRI2 GL provider for screen 0<br />
<br />
which is *not accurate*.<br />
<br />
If you run this command instead:<br />
<br />
LC_ALL=C LIBGL_DEBUG=verbose glxinfo | grep DRI<br />
<br />
you might stump with this other message:<br />
<br />
libGL: Using DRI3 for screen 0<br />
<br />
which proves you are using DRI3 even though X11 doesn't reply with the correct information.<br />
<br />
The command was adapted from [https://lists.x.org/archives/xorg-devel/2014-June/042735.html xorg mailing list].<br />
<br />
So, it think adding this information in the page could be of major interest. What do you think?<br />
<br />
[[User:Franzrogar|Franzrogar]] ([[User talk:Franzrogar|talk]]) 07:01, 4 November 2016 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Guide for screen scaling with external displays via xrandr? ==<br />
<br />
I tried to find instructions for scaling the display resolution without stretching on this wiki page, but the section only says that it's not implemented in the Intel drivers yet. However, [https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/220387/how-to-set-scaling-mode-for-external-displays-on-intel-gpu this stackexchange thread] has a workaround using an xrandr transform matrix. Should this be added to the wiki page?<br />
<br />
[[User:Ibara|Ibara]] ([[User talk:Ibara|talk]]) 12:35, 22 May 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Screen flickering ==<br />
Intel's power saving features might lead to flickering on some devices visible in the desktop, login manager and even in the konsole. Add the kernel parameter {{ic|1=intel_idle.max_cstate=1}} and reboot.<br />
<br />
{{unsigned|20:57, 3 November 2020|R41n3r}}<br />
<br />
== Driver issues on 11th Gen CPU ==<br />
<br />
I've just left a comment in [[Talk:Dell_XPS_13_(9310)#Video drivers]] about issues with modesetting drivers on the new XPS 13. The issue appears when using modesetting drivers and is resolved when installing the xf86-video-intel package, which seems to go against most of the advice in this Wiki and the internet at large. The issue is not simple to describe, so I will just copy-paste what I've written on the other page: "some weird jittery behaviour in the rendering of text. For example, when attempting to type 'wiki.archlinux.org' in a browser address field the text rendering would suddenly jump back by 1/2 strokes (I'm typing 'ch', the 'c' appears shortly but the screen immediately refreshes to only show 'wiki.a') and refuse to update for maybe a second. It would then catch up if I kept typing."<br />
Is this a known issue with 11th Gen Intel CPUs? The model I have has an i7-1165G7, which includes the new Intel Iris Xe Graphics.<br />
[[User:Avernan|Avernan]] ([[User talk:Avernan|talk]]) 17:16, 30 December 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
: I have an 11th Gen CPU (i7-1165G7), and the integrated GPU is {{ic|Intel TigerLake-LP GT2 [Iris Xe Graphics]}} according to neofetch. I was experiencing mouse flickering and lots of screen tearing with the modesetting driver, and this was only able to be resolved by installing x86-video-intel. The wiki page should be updated to mention this, but I'm not sure the best way to go about it. [[User:Makeworld|Makeworld]] ([[User talk:Makeworld|talk]]) 02:35, 15 July 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::That's pretty bad. Perhaps there could be a bulleted list within the Note, of issues with the modesetting driver. For those new items, we would prefer to have some sort of bug report to link to (rather than "original reports" without external recognition). -- [[User:CodingKoopa|CodingKoopa]] ([[User talk:CodingKoopa|talk]]) 04:16, 15 July 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::: Additionally I noticed a large reduction in CPU frequency when video conferencing (Google Meet in Chromium), which means better powersaving and no fans spinning up. And yeah, my concern was that I have nowhere to link to to back up my claim of issues. Not sure where to file a bug report, but I'm also not sure how appropriate it would even be. Obviously this is buggy behaviour from modesetting, but it feels a bit unfair to complain about modesetting when there are Intel drivers right there that work and solve the problem. [[User:Makeworld|Makeworld]] ([[User talk:Makeworld|talk]]) 16:16, 15 July 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::I think it's totally fair, actually. modesetting represents a modern take on Xorg drivers: When it comes to hardware acceleration, rather than implementing the Xorg primitives for each GPU, modesetting uses the [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X.Org_Server#Glamor GLAMOR] backend, which implements the Xorg primitives as OpenGL calls, and then defers to the vendor-specific GPU driver (generally just Mesa). This is considered a better architecture, and is the reason why it's encouraged. Rather than considering it a "fallback" (as the page currently implies), see it as an alternative which leverages your better-maintained 3D stack.<br />
::::In other words, modesetting is intended to be well-supported, and the people behind it actually would care to hear about problems that occur with it. With all of that said, I'm not really sure how the bug report process for it goes. It might be on the FreeDesktop GitLab instance that issues are opened. -- [[User:CodingKoopa|CodingKoopa]] ([[User talk:CodingKoopa|talk]]) 21:29, 15 July 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::: Ah, I didn't realize that's how modesetting worked, thanks. I've filed [https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/xorg/xserver/-/issues/1364 this issue] on the xserver repo as that seems to be the appropriate place. I'm not sure exactly how the wiki Note should be edited to take all these different reports and views into account, are you able to do it now that there's a bug report? If not maybe I can come back to this in a day or two. Thanks. [[User:Makeworld|Makeworld]] ([[User talk:Makeworld|talk]]) 00:16, 17 July 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::::Yeah, I think that's enough. Let's keep this section open though, and see how the issue progresses.<br />
::::::For the source link in that issue, you should change it to https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Talk:Intel_graphics&oldid=737996 so that it will continue to work once this section has been closed and deleted. Thanks, [[User:CodingKoopa|CodingKoopa]] ([[User talk:CodingKoopa|talk]]) 02:31, 17 July 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Washed colors on 7th gen CPU ==<br />
<br />
I found out that my iGPU shows washed colors randomly, but I managed to fix it by adding intel_agp and i915 modules into mkinitcpio.conf and rebuilding the initramfs after that. <br />
<br />
[[User:Myghi63|Paulo Marcos]] 11:37, 24 June 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Potential performance gains via Observation Architecture ==<br />
<br />
[https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/u7zxa0/psa_for_intel_tiger_lake_dynamic_tuning_laptops/ This /r/linux thread] claims the following:<br />
: Dynamic Tuning is not enabled in most distros due to late Intel KMS. Running "sudo sysctl dev.i915.pref_stream_paranoid=0" drastically improves game performance and clock management on relevant processors, specifically Tiger Lake.<br />
{{ic|dev.i915.perf_stream_paranoid}} was introduced in [https://patchwork.kernel.org/project/dri-devel/patch/20161020211910.4723-8-robert@sixbynine.org/ this Kernel commit], and its usage was [https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/mesa/mesa/-/commit/2001a80d4a81f2e8194b29cca301dd1b27be9acb introduced to Mesa in this commmit]. It now lives in [https://github.com/torvalds/linux/blob/v5.17/drivers/gpu/drm/i915/i915_perf.c linux/drivers/gpu/drm/i915/i915_perf.c]. This setting controls whether "non-root users [are allowed] to access system wide OA counter metrics". OA refers to Intel's [https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Intel-HSW-Observation-Arch Observation Architecture], and is [https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Intel-Mesa-OA-Perf-Counters used to provide performance info to applications].<br><br />
As I understand, the {{ic|perf_stream_paranoid}} family of options all may make a difference in whether applications are able to receive certain performance metrics. This is read-only information, and yet some users are reporting dramatic performance increases. What's more is that it's unclear whether early KMS fixes the issue; [https://forum.manjaro.org/t/cant-change-dev-i915-perf-stream-paranoid-to-0/66339/10 this Manjaro forum post] says it does, but the Reddit OP [https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/u7zxa0/comment/i5ia8go/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3 says otherwise]. Cheers, [[User:CodingKoopa|CodingKoopa]] ([[User talk:CodingKoopa|talk]]) 2022-04-21T02:38:34<br />
<br />
: I don't have the exact hardware to benchmark this, but on my (relatively old now) Skylake processor, I did not feel any difference. Neither from the perf_stream sysctl knob nor from early KMS. --[[User:Erus Iluvatar|Erus Iluvatar]] ([[User talk:Erus Iluvatar|talk]]) 06:55, 21 April 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::[https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Intel-HSW-Observation-Arch Phoronix says that it's Haswell and newer], so your Skylake should just be fine. It's possible that the sysctl option makes no difference (that is, because of the permission to use the performance counter being present anyways), either because of your setup using Early KMS, or because of some Arch default. I think that a good test would be to disable Early KMS (e.g. take the i915 module out of the initrd), and run a program that triggers the {{ic|1=Performance support disabled, consider sysctl dev.i915.perf_stream_paranoid=0}} [https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/mesa/mesa/-/blob/68e8f00c441dc38f5a18a4aa5a30916c53fc986f/src/intel/vulkan/anv_perf.c#L60-L61 codepath]. I'm under the impression that affected applications are Vulkan programs which use the [https://www.khronos.org/registry/vulkan/specs/1.3-extensions/man/html/VK_KHR_performance_query.html VK_KHR_performance_query extension] [https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/mesa/mesa/-/merge_requests/2775]. That said, I'm not sure how to reliably pick out affected programs, seeing as people are reporting this with Wine games, but DXVK does not use this extension. Cheers, [[User:CodingKoopa|CodingKoopa]] ([[User talk:CodingKoopa|talk]]) 17:05, 21 April 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::: I'll try to find some time to benchmark this on the weekend, I probably have some random game on Steam that both uses Vulkan and runs through Wine. --[[User:Erus Iluvatar|Erus Iluvatar]] ([[User talk:Erus Iluvatar|talk]]) 18:35, 21 April 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== TGL/RKL GuC Submission ==<br />
<br />
Hi, I think the table should be called into question for GuC submission being only supported from ADL forward. I have an i5 11400 and it will enable the GuC submission with SLPC and RC.<br />
<br />
https://imgur.com/a/9DB1Xhf<br />
<br />
After trying to set 3, it actually worked. Full GuC submission and HuC auth.<br />
<br />
https://imgur.com/a/WIgYqXI<br />
<br />
{{unsigned|09:48, 24 July 2022|Gmazzo}}<br />
<br />
:Hi, I made that table. Firstly, are you sure that your CPU is an [https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/212270/intel-core-i511400-processor-12m-cache-up-to-4-40-ghz.html i5-11400] and not an [https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/213805/intel-core-i511400h-processor-12m-cache-up-to-4-50-ghz.html i5-11400H]? Your logs indicate that the Tiger Lake firmware is being loaded, whose microarchitecture the i5-11400H corresponds with (specifically Tiger Lake-H). This is as opposed as opposed to the Rocket Lake firmwares, which I would expect the i5-11400 to load. Both are 11th generation CPUs which use Gen12 GPUs, so it shouldn't matter anyways, but I want to make sure I understand, as there ''are'' RKL firmware binaries [https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/firmware/linux-firmware.git/tree/i915 in linux-firmware].<br />
:Tiger Lake and Rocket Lake are both in the area where they ship Gen12 GPUs, but they are not supposed to support GUC submission and power management according to [https://01.org/linuxgraphics/downloads/firmware Intel's own chart]. This is still supported [https://github.com/torvalds/linux/blob/v5.18/drivers/gpu/drm/i915/gt/uc/intel_uc.c#L32-L36 by the source code handling the defaults], too. Yet, what you are experiencing seems to be GuC submission without HuC firmware loading (equivalent to {{ic|1=i915.enable_guc=1}}) ''by default'', which I didn't think is ever the case. Fortunately, at least TGL/RKL supporting HuC authentication is not a revelation, as that is supported by the Intel docs.<br />
:So, yeah, it does sound like the table is wrong about your CPU's default behavior. From what I understand about what the kernel is doing:<br />
:* GuC and HuC are uninitialized. [https://github.com/torvalds/linux/blob/v5.18/drivers/gpu/drm/i915/gt/uc/intel_uc_fw.h#L22-L44]<br />
:* The defaults laid out in the table are set, if {{ic|enable_guc}} is unset.<br />
:* '''Regardless of the settings''', {{ic|intel_uc_init_early}} in intel_uc.c calls {{ic|intel_guc_init_early()}} and {{ic|intel_huc_init_early()}}, each of which does minimal initialization to determine if the hardware is supported.<br />
:* Throughout intel_uc.c, {{ic|intel_uc_supports_guc()}} is called to see if GuC is supported.<br />
:** The definition for {{ic|intel_uc_supports_guc()}} is generated by a macro in [https://github.com/torvalds/linux/blob/v5.18/drivers/gpu/drm/i915/gt/uc/intel_uc.h#L74-L83 intel_uc.h] (annoying when I can't just grep for it :p). This defers to {{ic|intel_guc_is_supported()}}.<br />
:** {{ic|intel_uc_fw_is_supported()}} in [https://github.com/torvalds/linux/blob/70664fc10c0d722ec79d746d8ac1db8546c94114/drivers/gpu/drm/i915/gt/uc/intel_uc_fw.h#L203 intel_guc_fw.h] checks the result of the minimal initialization to see if it was successful (and therefore possible to do further initialization if desired).<br />
:* Also in intel_uc.c, {{ic|intel_uc_supports_guc_submission()}} is called to see if GuC submission is supported.<br />
:** The definition for {{ic|intel_uc_supports_guc_submission()}} is also generated by a macro which defers to {{ic|intel_guc_submission_is_supported()}}.<br />
:** {{ic|intel_guc_submission_is_supported()}} in [https://github.com/torvalds/linux/blob/v5.18/drivers/gpu/drm/i915/gt/uc/intel_guc_submission.h intel_guc_submission.h] checks an internal variable set by [https://github.com/torvalds/linux/blob/v5.18/drivers/gpu/drm/i915/gt/uc/intel_guc_submission.c#L3805-L3810 __guc_submission_supported()]. The requirements are that GuC is supported, and that the GPU must be '''Gen11 or newer''' (not Gen12 or newer!)<br />
:*Only now is the firmware actually loaded. From intel_guc.c: <br />
::{{bc|<nowiki>* Enabling the GuC is not mandatory and therefore the firmware is only loaded<br />
* if at least one of the operations is selected.</nowiki>}}<br />
:That __guc_submission_supported implementation conflicts with Intel's documentation: GuC submission is seemingly available on some Gen11 GPUs.<br />
:Now, GuC submission being ''possible'' is one story, but it being enabled by ''default'' is another. At the moment, I do not see why this would be the case. I would be curious to see what is logged on an affected TGL/RKL system with the {{ic|drm_dbg}} messages enabled (recompiling the kernel with different settings is probably necessary. <br />
:-- Thanks, [[User:CodingKoopa|CodingKoopa]] ([[User talk:CodingKoopa|talk]]) 19:27, 24 July 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:: Hi, Guc submission seems to be possible on my system as well by setting {{ic|1=options i915 enable_guc=3}}:<br />
<br />
$ uname -r<br />
5.19.12-arch1-1<br />
<br />
$ cat /proc/cpuinfo<br />
model name : 11th Gen Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-1165G7 @ 2.80GHz<br />
<br />
$ lspci -k<br />
00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation TigerLake-LP GT2 [Iris Xe Graphics] (rev 01)<br />
DeviceName: Onboard - Video<br />
Subsystem: Micro-Star International Co., Ltd. [MSI] Device 12e1<br />
<br />
{{hc|1=$ sudo dmesg {{!}} grep i915|2=<br />
[ 1.009923] i915 0000:00:02.0: [drm] VT-d active for gfx access<br />
[ 1.010006] i915 0000:00:02.0: vgaarb: deactivate vga console<br />
[ 1.010043] i915 0000:00:02.0: [drm] Transparent Hugepage mode 'huge=within_size'<br />
[ 1.018442] i915 0000:00:02.0: vgaarb: changed VGA decodes: olddecodes=io+mem,decodes=io+mem:owns=io+mem<br />
[ 1.020342] i915 0000:00:02.0: [drm] Finished loading DMC firmware i915/tgl_dmc_ver2_12.bin (v2.12)<br />
[ 1.157918] i915 0000:00:02.0: [drm] GuC firmware i915/tgl_guc_70.1.1.bin version 70.1<br />
[ 1.157921] i915 0000:00:02.0: [drm] HuC firmware i915/tgl_huc_7.9.3.bin version 7.9<br />
[ 1.161434] i915 0000:00:02.0: [drm] HuC authenticated<br />
[ 1.161777] i915 0000:00:02.0: [drm] GuC submission enabled<br />
[ 1.161778] i915 0000:00:02.0: [drm] GuC SLPC enabled<br />
[ 1.162428] i915 0000:00:02.0: [drm] GuC RC: enabled<br />
[ 1.165574] i915 0000:00:02.0: [drm] Protected Xe Path (PXP) protected content support initialized<br />
[ 1.167372] [drm] Initialized i915 1.6.0 20201103 for 0000:00:02.0 on minor 0<br />
[ 1.170411] fbcon: i915drmfb (fb0) is primary device<br />
[ 1.170414] i915 0000:00:02.0: [drm] fb0: i915drmfb frame buffer device<br />
[ 3.670049] mei_hdcp 0000:00:16.0-b638ab7e-94e2-4ea2-a552-d1c54b627f04: bound 0000:00:02.0 (ops i915_hdcp_component_ops [i915])<br />
[ 3.684363] mei_pxp 0000:00:16.0-fbf6fcf1-96cf-4e2e-a6a6-1bab8cbe36b1: bound 0000:00:02.0 (ops i915_pxp_tee_component_ops [i915])<br />
[ 4.070745] sof-audio-pci-intel-tgl 0000:00:1f.3: bound 0000:00:02.0 (ops i915_audio_component_bind_ops [i915])<br />
}}<br />
:: -- [[User:Cvlc|Cvlc]] ([[User talk:Cvlc|talk]]) 20:18, 30 September 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::Thanks for sharing! There are a few more things I am curious about:<br />
:::* What kernel version is this (e.g. {{ic|pacman -Qi linux}})? It might be necessary for me to know if I take it up with the Intel Linux folk.<br />
:::* What CPU is this? I can see that the Tiger Lake blob is getting loaded, but I am still curious to know the exact model.<br />
:::* What is the behavior if you boot without the {{ic|enable_guc}} kernel parameter?<br />
:::Finally, if you are able to do so, to get more messages from i915 you can try booting with the {{ic|1=dyndbg="module i915 +p"}} kernel parameter. This will enable [[General troubleshooting#Dynamic debugging|dynamic debugging]] for the Intel kernel module. -- [[User:CodingKoopa|CodingKoopa]] ([[User talk:CodingKoopa|talk]]) 21:36, 1 October 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:: I updated my previous post above with kernel / cpu details for clarity. If I boot without the {{ic|enable_guc}} kernel parameter, there is no huc/guc reference at all in either dmesg or journalctl, so default seems to be "all off". I don't see any difference in logs when booting with {{ic|1=dyndbg="module i915 +p"}}, but maybe I'm not reading from the right place..! Apparently some [https://www.phoronix.com/news/Intel-i915-Versioned-Firmware changes are being made], so the behavior might be different in the next kernel versions. By the way, is there any way to verify or see guc/huc in action (something like {{ic|intel_gpu_top}} but specific) ?<br />
::-- [[User:Cvlc|Cvlc]] ([[User talk:Cvlc|talk]]) 21:12, 2 October 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Tips on identifying hardware? ==<br />
<br />
It would be helpful to include either a link (if the information is elsewhere in the wiki) or information explaining how to determine which chip you have and how that relates to the various names seen on this page, PKGBUILDs etc. I've got integrated Intel graphics and a sticker on my machine says my i5 is 7th generation, but how does this relate to e.g. '<= Haswell' vs. '>= Broadwell' (as in the libva PKGBUILD), 'skylake' vs. other lakes, non-lakes etc.). I assume this more basic identification is somewhere on the wiki, but this is the page I landed on trying to find it. --[[User:Margali|cfr]] ([[User talk:Margali|talk]]) 18:18, 1 November 2022 (UTC)</div>Margalihttps://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Talk:Installation_guide&diff=755187Talk:Installation guide2022-10-30T03:13:28Z<p>Margali: /* Partitioning tools */ egs</p>
<hr />
<div>== Read this first before adding new suggestions ==<br />
<br />
* systemd tools such as ''hostnamectl'', ''timedatectl'' and ''localectl'' [https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/798#issuecomment-126568596 do not work] in the installation chroot environment, so please do not propose to use them in the guide unless you can prove that they have been made to work also in that case. See [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Talk:Beginners%27_guide&oldid=388727#General_problems], [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Talk:Beginners%27_guide&oldid=404695#Replace_commands_with_their_systemd_equivalents], [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Talk:Beginners%27_guide&oldid=418662#Utilizing_systemd_tools] and [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Talk:Installation_guide&oldid=434985#change_configuration_system_from_old_way_to_new_way.28using_systemd_commands.29] for some past discussions about this issue.<br />
* {{ic|localectl list-keymaps}} does not work due to bug {{Bug|46725}}. For the chosen replacement command, see [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Talk:Beginners%27_guide&oldid=435044#localectl].<br />
* Due to the wide variety of available boot loaders, the installation guide refers to [[Arch_boot_process#Boot_loader]] instead of making a specific recommendation for the installed system. See [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Talk:Installation_guide&oldid=687325#Bootloader], [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Talk:Installation_guide&oldid=690612#Make_the_Boot_Loader_Section_slightly_more_detailed_to_provide_a_high_level_overview_for_new_users], [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Talk:Installation_guide&oldid=678949#Expand_Boot_loader_section], [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Talk:Installation_guide&oldid=660151#Expand_Boot_loader_section_to_include_example_commands], [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Talk:Installation_guide&oldid=581427#Boot_loader_installation] for some past discussions on this topic.<br />
* While [[:Category:Installation process]] lists additional installation methods (e.g. [[archinstall]] or [[systemd-firstboot]]), the installation guide does not reference them due to their specific nature. [[Install_Arch_Linux_with_accessibility_options]] is an exception. See [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Talk:Installation_guide&oldid=698307#Point_out_archinstall] for past discussion on this topic.<br />
-- [[ArchWiki:Administrators|The ArchWiki Administrators]] 22:17, 2 September 2016 (UTC)<br />
__TOC__<br />
<br />
== Link to the German version ==<br />
<br />
Instead of [[de:Arch Install Scripts]] you could choose [[de:Anleitung für Einsteiger]] it means "Beginner's Guid" and is a very <br />
detailed artikel for very new arch users and the future experts.<br />
<br />
:Thank you, [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Installation_guide&type=revision&diff=509961&oldid=508505 done]. -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 16:31, 6 February 2018 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::This was already proposed last year and rejected: [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Talk:Installation_guide&oldid=466950#Suggesting_different_page_for_German_translation]. I don't see what has changed since then. If someone adds me as admin to the german wiki or changes the protection settings, I can update [[de:Arch Install Scripts]] as required. -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 18:13, 6 February 2018 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::I see, I didn't remember that discussion so I've reverted the change, hopefully you'll make it to update the translation, let's leave this open until the problem is solved, otherwise this kind of suggestion will keep appearing recurrently. -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 17:53, 7 February 2018 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::Apparently since last year the translation has been halved in size, but its scope is still much larger than the [[Install guide]] (or even the old [[Beginners' guide]]). -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 09:42, 9 May 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== HiDPI on the console ==<br />
<br />
With an ever increasing number of [[HiDPI]] displays, including at the begging of the article a section about adjusting the scaling factor or changing the font can be helpful, see [[HiDPI#Linux_console]]. [[User:Goetzc|Goetzc]] ([[User talk:Goetzc|talk]]) 02:21, 8 August 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:It could be added as an example for {{ic|setfont}} in [[Installation_guide#Set_the_keyboard_layout]]. The issue I have is that [[HiDPI#Linux_console]] mentions that {{ic|tty2-6}} may be unusable, while the Installation guide specifically instructs to change ttys as required in [[Installation_guide#Boot_the_live_environment]]. -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 13:07, 7 September 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::May be as an example for the line "See README.bootparams for a list of boot parameters" [[Installation_guide#Boot_the_live_environment]], it could be specified to hit {{ic|e}} button to edit the boot entry and add the following parameters to the boot line, like {{ic|1=video=1920x1080}} if you have HiDPI display. -- [[User:Xzorg6|Xzorg6]] ([[User talk:Xzorg6|talk]]) 22:41, 15 December 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::{{ic|1=video=}} will just change the resolution. To get a bigger font on the console, you need {{ic|1=CONFIG_FONT_TER16x32=y}} in the kernel config and {{ic|1=fbcon=font:TER16x32}} in the kernel command line. Since the official kernels don't enable {{ic|CONFIG_FONT_TER16x32}}, someone will need to open a bug report asking for it. After that, the instructions for setting the {{ic|1=fbcon=font:TER16x32}} [[kernel parameter]] could be added to the wiki. -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 06:52, 16 December 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::{{Pkg|linux}} 5.5.6.arch1-1 <s>(currently in testing)</s> has {{ic|1=CONFIG_FONT_TER16x32=y}} ({{Bug|64861}}). <s>If if gets move to core before March, then</s> the March iso will have it. It's probably a good idea to start drafting a [[Template:Tip|tip]] to place in [[Installation guide#Boot the live environment]]. -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 11:12, 26 February 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::And just after I wrote this, the package was moved to core. -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 11:27, 26 February 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::I'm seeing multiple claims[https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=253319][https://www.reddit.com/r/archlinux/comments/fbi4vx/text_size_during_boot_changed_since_my_last/][https://www.reddit.com/r/archlinux/comments/fgct3t/how_to_get_currently_loaded_console_font_of_the/] that people with HiDPI screens are getting the TER16x32 font. I was not aware that the kernel chooses a font depending on screen size. Can anyone confirm that this really is the case? If it really works that way and unless {{Bug|65680}} messes this up, then there's nothing to add to the Installation guide about this topic. -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 06:02, 11 March 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::::As per https://lore.kernel.org/lkml/20190618203425.10723-4-tiwai@suse.de/ the decision to use ter16x32 is not based on screen size but only resolution.So even though a 1080p screen may be hidpi it does not use ter16x32 [[User:M.Srikanth|M.Srikanth]] ([[User talk:M.Srikanth|talk]]) 10:17, 11 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::::At least that part is now clear, thanks. The first step should be to get [[HiDPI#Linux console]] up to date. After that, as I've said before, a tip for the installation guide can be drafted. -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 11:04, 11 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::::: I fixed the page and removed the template [[User:M.Srikanth|M.Srikanth]] ([[User talk:M.Srikanth|talk]]) 12:25, 11 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== First mention of /mnt in example partition layout ==<br />
<br />
{{ic|/mnt}} is mentioned at mount point in [[Installation_guide#Partition_the_disks]], while {{ic|/mnt}} is made explicit two sections later in [[Installation_guide#Mount_the_file_systems]]. As I recall it, this was changed because some users blindly copy pasted commands and mounted /boot on the live system, instead of /mnt/boot. Some options:<br />
<br />
* Introduce another column describing the mount point on the installed system. <br />
* Actually explain /mnt early.<br />
* Revert the "mount point" to not include /mnt.<br />
<br />
-- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 13:03, 7 September 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I don't understand what's the actual problem here... -- [[User:Lahwaacz|Lahwaacz]] ([[User talk:Lahwaacz|talk]]) 09:36, 8 September 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::From what I read on [[ArchWiki:IRC|#archlinux-wiki]], this comes from https://www.reddit.com/r/archlinux/comments/d0v0j3/is_it_just_me_or_is_the_prospect_of_installing/ where the user was confused by the lack of root mountpoint (i.e. {{ic|/mnt}} vs {{ic|/}}). A question could be raised, if we should concern ourselves with users who have strong opinions about the wiki content yet can't be bothered to propose improvements in the talk pages...<br />
::About Alad's proposed options: I disagree with the first option, I think it will just complicate things even further. I support the third option and maybe adjusting the column header like in [[Special:Diff/581800]].<br />
::I'd actually would like to go even further and change the commands run from outside chroot to be visually distinct, e.g.: {{bc|1=<span style="color: #ff0000;">root@archiso #</span> mount /dev/sd''X1'' /mnt}}<br />
::I think it would better solve the underlying issue. <br />
:: -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 15:26, 8 September 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::I'm not overly fond of the longer column name. For the last proposed option, I may agree if this is formalized in [[Help:Style]], so that it is not specfic to the [[Installation guide]]. -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 11:20, 10 September 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::Adding it [[Help:Style]] was my intention, since other articles, too, will need to use that style for some commands. I'm thinking of creating a template for it: [[Special:Permalink/581945]]. -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 10:19, 11 September 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::Sounds good to me, I'd just prefer the regular (non-bold) font for the prompt as above. -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 21:54, 13 September 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::::[[Special:Permalink/582327]]. Are there any other opinions about creating such a template? Or should I take this discussion to [[Help talk:Template]] per [[Help:Template#Creation]]? -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 18:31, 14 September 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::::# How are you going to call the template? This template would probably add to the [[Help:Template#Code formatting templates]] series, should it be named in a consistent fashion?<br />
:::::::# Should this template support custom prompts, and if so, should it be called "pc" (from "(custom) prompted" code)?<br />
:::::::# I don't like the red color too much, if bold is not an option maybe we can go green|purple|blue, something that recalls less a warning of some kind? Or can we just leave it with the default font color? Or a slightly fainter black?<br />
:::::::# I haven't looked well into it, but maybe we can instead add an optional argument to [[Template:bc]] and [[Template:hc]] that prefixes a custom (colored) prompt? I wouldn't see a problem with repeating "root@archiso #" in every instance, or we may derive the new template from those two at that point.<br />
:::::::# The template should probably be derived from [[Template:bc]] in any case, for simpler code, see [[User:Kynikos/Template:Sandbox2]].<br />
:::::::-- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 17:36, 16 September 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::::::# Initially I was going to call it [[Template:Archiso]] since it would be [[Archiso]]-specific, but I'm starting to think that creating a more general-purpose template would be better. It could then be used in [[PostgreSQL]] and the {{ic|[postgres]$}} convention would get formalized in [[Help:Style]]. Now the issue is the {{ic|[user@peer-a]#}} in [[Template:hc]] used in [[WireGuard]]. I'd rather not create two new templates, but I'm having trouble getting [[Template:Sandbox]] to work :(<br />
::::::::# I like your "[[Template:pc]]" suggestion.<br />
::::::::# Be glad I didn't post my first draft that was ''slightly more'' colorful. From your offered colors, I'd choose purple.<br />
::::::::# I'd rather not mess with the established templates just for this change, so I'd prefer creating a new template.<br />
::::::::# I didn't even think about using [[Template:bc]]. Is it a good idea to do that? The new template might need to be updated if [[Template:bc]] is ever changed in an incompatible way.<br />
:::::::: -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 07:33, 17 September 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::::::Yeah, after viewing your attempts and looking into it myself, I think modifying bc/hc is out of discussion, it would add too much code/style for so little use.<br />
:::::::::Thinking about this again one day after, I feel I'm realizing that my concerns in general may descend from the fact that we're going to create a template to represent (block) code, even though we already have 2 which basically do the same thing, including allowing to include a prompt; the only addition of this "Archiso" or "pc" template would be the formatting around the prompt, so why not keep it simple (I know, "simplicity" is often subjective and controversial) and instead either make a [[Template:Archiso]] to be used like {{ic|<nowiki>{{bc|{{Archiso}} mount /dev/sdX1 /mnt}}</nowiki>}} or [[Template:ps]] (or [[Template:PS]]) to be used like {{ic|<nowiki>{{hc|{{ps|root@archiso #}} mount /dev/sdX1 /mnt}}</nowiki>}}? They also work with [[Template:hc]] and space-prefixed code blocks!<br />
:::::::::Putting the choice of color aside, if the above idea of a standalone prompt template isn't welcome, I think my second choice would be to make two [[Template:pbc]] and [[Template:phc]] that work like {{ic|<nowiki>{{pbc|$|ls}}</nowiki>}} and {{ic|<nowiki>{{phc|$|ls|...}}</nowiki>}}, with the style rule to use them only in case of complex prompts. I'd still derive them from bc/hc to inherit any changes that we'd decide to make to them, and avoid repeating that ugly &lt;pre> hack even more.<br />
:::::::::Otherwise I give up and accept the [[Template:Archiso]] that works like {{ic|<nowiki>{{Archiso|mount /dev/sdX1 /mnt}}</nowiki>}}, in the hope that one day we won't need an analogous "hc" version.<br />
:::::::::-- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 14:24, 17 September 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::::::::I can't say I really like the idea of {{ic|<nowiki>{{bc|{{Archiso}} mount /dev/sdX1 /mnt}}</nowiki>}} or {{ic|<nowiki>{{hc|{{ps|root@archiso #}} mount /dev/sdX1 /mnt}}</nowiki>}}. I'd prefer creating [[Template:pbc]] and [[Template:phc]].<br />
::::::::::I still don't get what's wrong with [[Template:Sandbox]]. It should just work:<br />
<br />
<pre<noinclude></noinclude> {{#if: code|style="margin-bottom: 0; border-bottom:none; padding-bottom:0.8em;"}}>prompt # command</pre<noinclude></noinclude>><noinclude><!-- The &lt;noinclude>&lt;/noinclude> hack is needed to allow wiki markup inside the pre tags; reference: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/wiki/mediawiki/118688#118688 --><br />
{{#if: code|<pre<noinclude></noinclude> style="margin-top: 0; border-top-style:dashed; padding-top: 0.8em;">code</pre<noinclude></noinclude>>}}<br />
<br />
:::::::::: -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 04:43, 18 September 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::::::::FWIW (and a bit of fun) I've fixed [[Template:Sandbox]], although I'm not sure if we really need that level of automation ^^ I stick to my position above, is there a third (or more) opinion? -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 15:48, 18 September 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::::::I think you like the [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Nl6720&diff=447834&oldid=447833 #800080] shade of purple, right? ;-) [[User:Lahwaacz|Lahwaacz]] ([[User talk:Lahwaacz|talk]]) 11:39, 21 September 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::::::::Yes, I do like that one :D but I think it would be too bright for this template. -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 11:52, 21 September 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::::::::Any news on this one? If not, I haven't seen this kind of issue or confusion occur since. -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 09:37, 31 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::::::::::I don't think I want to create such a template anymore, since it would require updating other installation related pages. To go back to your originally proposed options, I'm for explaining {{ic|/mnt}} early. -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 09:42, 4 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Buggy graphics driver ==<br />
<br />
Can there be a hint that nomodeset parameter could be used if the graphics driver is buggy (I've heard nouveau may be buggy sometimes)<br />
[[User:M.Srikanth|M.Srikanth]] ([[User talk:M.Srikanth|talk]]) 04:47, 12 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I would expect this to be mentioned in [[General_troubleshooting]]... -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 09:43, 31 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== GitLab blobs in Lynx ==<br />
<br />
Links to files (blobs) on gitlab.archlinux.org are not readable in Lynx (or any other console web browser); see https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab/-/issues/26567.<br />
<br />
Should the Installation guide link to raw files instead?<br />
<br />
-- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 12:29, 4 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Maybe you could ask svenstaro to add it to https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab/-/issues/232073... -- [[User:Lahwaacz|Lahwaacz]] ([[User talk:Lahwaacz|talk]]) 12:36, 4 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::It has been filed under [https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab/-/issues/232073#nice-to-have nice to have]. -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 17:19, 4 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::Instead of using raw links we should perhaps consider if we need links to gitlab at all. The guide has:<br />
:::* [https://gitlab.archlinux.org/mkinitcpio/mkinitcpio-archiso/blob/master/docs/README.bootparams README.bootparams]<br />
:::* <s>[https://gitlab.archlinux.org/archlinux/archiso/-/blob/master/configs/releng/airootfs/etc/systemd/network/20-ethernet.network Ethernet]</s><br />
:::* <s>[https://gitlab.archlinux.org/archlinux/archiso/-/blob/master/configs/releng/airootfs/etc/systemd/network/20-wlan.network WLAN]</s><br />
:::* <s>[https://gitlab.archlinux.org/archlinux/archiso/-/blob/master/configs/releng/airootfs/etc/systemd/network/20-wwan.network WWAN]</s><br />
:::* <s>[https://gitlab.archlinux.org/archlinux/archiso/-/blob/master/configs/releng/airootfs/etc/xdg/reflector/reflector.conf reflector.conf]</s><br />
:::* <s>[https://gitlab.archlinux.org/archlinux/archiso/-/blob/master/configs/releng/packages.x86_64 packages.x86_64]</s><br />
:::Notice how all but one of these share the common path [https://gitlab.archlinux.org/archlinux/archiso/-/blob/master/configs/releng archiso/-/blob/master/configs/releng]. Unless this level of specificity is really required, we could link to this path "for an overview of configuration files shipped with archiso" instead. -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 09:35, 31 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::I'd prefer simply removing some of the links.<br />
::::* [https://gitlab.archlinux.org/archlinux/archiso/-/blob/master/configs/releng/airootfs/etc/systemd/network/20-ethernet.network Ethernet], [https://gitlab.archlinux.org/archlinux/archiso/-/blob/master/configs/releng/airootfs/etc/systemd/network/20-wlan.network WLAN] and [https://gitlab.archlinux.org/archlinux/archiso/-/blob/master/configs/releng/airootfs/etc/systemd/network/20-wwan.network WWAN] don't provide much value here, so they can be moved to [[systemd-networkd#Configuration examples]].<br />
::::* [https://gitlab.archlinux.org/archlinux/archiso/-/blob/master/configs/releng/airootfs/etc/xdg/reflector/reflector.conf reflector.conf] is there just for citation purposes. The [[reflector]] article already explains how the software works.<br />
:::: -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 09:30, 4 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::: Alright, I've removed those links. ([[Special:Diff/700696]], [[Special:Diff/700693]]) -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 11:39, 4 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::: Now that mirrors provide a symlink to the latest ISO version, it's possible to link to {{ic|pkglist.x86_64.txt}}. [[Special:Diff/730318|I replaced packages.x86_64 with it]]. -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 07:31, 21 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Is Lynx (un)readability such a big problem in this case? People using Lynx from the archiso can open up the relevant file in the live system itself... — [[User:Lahwaacz|Lahwaacz]] ([[User talk:Lahwaacz|talk]]) 18:05, 31 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Post-installation ==<br />
<br />
I skipped steps in the guide so I faced a weird crash in gnome without any explanations. I suggest a note.<br />
<br />
{{Note|Many of them assume that you have your timezone or locales set up. Make sure you have followed all the steps.}}<br />
<br />
[[User:Escope|Escope]] ([[User talk:Escope|talk]]) 10:11, 2 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:The reader is supposed to follow all the steps. If we apply that to other pages, the pages need a boatload of notes to make sure the reader did not skip any steps. A common functional system has properly configured locales and timezones.<br />
:Since this is GNOME-specific however I would at most add a section into [[GNOME/Troubleshooting]] or even [[General troubleshooting]], but I still think this is out of scope to be honest. Many applications may not work properly when the timezones or locales are not correctly configured.<br />
:-- [[User:NetSysFire|NetSysFire]] ([[User talk:NetSysFire|talk]]) 15:30, 2 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::The reader is not supposed to follow all the steps in case one doesn't worthy of attention. In my humble opinion, that's why it has huge advantage over the "Next-Next-Finish" approach. Unconfigured locales or timezones are obvious to many people, but my inexperience made me spend some time to sorting out. The other pages are highly deep and clear about the steps and why they are needed, my eyes enjoy such notes, pages are boatloaded already and I like it a lot =D. Thank you for your attention to this little change.<br />
<br />
::-- [[User:Escope|Escope]] ([[User talk:Escope|talk]]) 00:23, 3 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::If you're inexperienced, what makes you think you can judge if a step is necessary or not? You thought you knew better than the people that wrote the guide and found out that you didn't. Not something that needs changed here IMO.<br />
:::[[User:Scimmia|Scimmia]] ([[User talk:Scimmia|talk]]) 01:57, 3 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::The ArchWiki should also be about the why-aspect. I am in favor of adding e.g a note about why they are needed and why some applications may crash or behave strangely without properly configured timezones/locales. If you know e.g a nice blog post about this topic, why not add something like this?<br />
:::{{Note|Some applications may behave in strange ways or even crash when the timezones and/or locales are not properly configured. See [https://xkcd.com/1084/ this informative blog post] to know why that is.}}<br />
:::The note needs obviously some rewording, but something like this would fit in well in my opinion.<br />
:::-- [[User:NetSysFire|NetSysFire]] ([[User talk:NetSysFire|talk]]) 02:02, 3 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::Adding a '''brief''' "why" would be ok, but using [[Template:Note]] would be too much. I've also always wanted to emphasize the "and" in [[Installation guide#Localization]], since it's easy to miss (even some of the translated installation guides do not mention {{ic|en_US.UTF-8 UTF-8}}). --- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 08:48, 3 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::People who want to know the "why" can already consult the relevant articles. That said, consistency is lacking: some sections explain in detail why a step should be performed (such as [[Installation_guide#Verify_signature]]), whereas [[Installation_guide#Configure_the_system]] is mostly a checklist of steps with brief instructions how. The solution isn't obvious: adding notes all over would likely more distract than clarify. -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 19:41, 14 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::::I'm definitely apposed to adding notes, but I don't see why we couldn't add brief "why"s without them. -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 06:55, 15 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Add link to ALSA firmware in the Install essentials packages section ==<br />
<br />
With sof-firmware gaining more and more traction on newer systems it might be useful to add a link or piece of information that this might be necessary for newer laptops/cards, see [[Advanced_Linux_Sound_Architecture#ALSA_firmware]]. We currently get pretty much daily reports on the BBS where someone wonders where their sound card has gone. I know this is "technically" included in the "install additional firmware not included in linux-firmware" line, but since this is something that hasn't really been necessary for years this is potentially something not everyone is immediately aware of. [[User:V1del|V1del]] ([[User talk:V1del|talk]]) 17:15, 13 August 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Even with a link to [[Advanced_Linux_Sound_Architecture#ALSA_firmware]], it might be confusing that it applies based on the hardware, even when the user wants to use [[PulseAudio]] or [[Pipewire]]. Is there a better place where audio firmware could be described? — [[User:Lahwaacz|Lahwaacz]] ([[User talk:Lahwaacz|talk]]) 20:00, 13 August 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::I tried to have some sort of "standardized" snippet on laptop pages when it needs ALSA firmware, but the ArchWiki is not a hardware db and we cannot document all pieces of hardware. Audio is not essential for some users but a few depend on screenreaders, which is crucial to accessibility.<br />
::In the end it might not cause harm to install sof-firmware when in doubt.<br />
::-- [[User:NetSysFire|NetSysFire]] ([[User talk:NetSysFire|talk]]) 01:17, 14 August 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::I mean if we cover firmware in e.g. [[Sound system]] and link to that instead of ALSA, it would seem much more general. — [[User:Lahwaacz|Lahwaacz]] ([[User talk:Lahwaacz|talk]]) 06:19, 14 August 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::Well for this particular case you can fairly easily identify whether you have a need for sof-firmware with an {{ic|<nowiki>lsmod | grep snd_sof</nowiki>}} or a {{ic|<nowiki>dmesg | grep -i sof</nowiki>}}, but yes might be helpful to move that somewhere else if we want to ensure to have hardware based separation here. [[User:V1del|V1del]] ([[User talk:V1del|talk]]) 12:04, 14 August 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::I [[Special:Diff/692787|added]] {{Pkg|sof-firmware}} as an example (and the aforementioned link) so that there's at least something for now. -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 10:20, 25 August 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Add a check for "native sector size" before/during partitioning step ==<br />
<s>Some pages like [[Solid state drive]] are nearly impossible to get to from just following the Installation Guide. This is problematic as some recommendations from these pages are only relevant '''before''' installation, as it is too late afterwards (notably for setting native sector size as in [[Solid state drive#Native sector size]]. I believe there should be a note in the partitioning step, something like modifying this line: <br />
* If you want to create any stacked block devices for [[LVM]], [[dm-crypt|system encryption]] or [[RAID]], do it now.<br />
to <br />
* If you want to create any stacked block devices for [[LVM]], [[dm-crypt|system encryption]] or [[RAID]], do it now. Also check [[Improving performance#Partitioning]] or [[Solid state drive]] for storage device specific information.<br />
As an alternative, this could be added to [[Partitioning]], but it's already quite big...<br />
-- [[User:Cvlc|Cvlc]] ([[User talk:Cvlc|talk]]) 15:47, 29 August 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Linking both [[Improving_performance#Partitioning]] (which needs improvements) and [[Solid state drive]] seems excessive. Also, it's unclear if the improvement is tangible enough to make users work through yet another wiki article for their basic setup. -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 09:28, 31 October 2021 (UTC)</s><br />
:: An alternative could be to add :<br />
:: {{Tip|Check that your disk reports the correct [[Solid_state_drive#Native_sector_size|sector size]]}}<br />
::at the beginning of partitioning. It's an important optimization step and currently not addressed. On a brand new nvme SSD, strictly following the wiki, I ended up with a wrongly set up LUKS volume because the drive reports 512 byte sectors as the active option, and I only found out after installing.<br />
<br />
::-- [[User:Cvlc|Cvlc]] ([[User talk:Cvlc|talk]]) 16:15, 23 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::Seeing as the "native sector size" is the only issue that can't be simply fixed after the fact (unlike e.g. TRIM), it should be fine to link it (after [[Talk:Advanced Format#Rewrite Advanced Format to a new Sector Sizes page]] is done). As for linking to [[Solid state drive]] in general, IMHO there's no need. It's already linked from [[General recommendations#Solid state drives]]. -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 09:53, 25 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::: Agreed, the sector size issue was the one that really bothered me. I corrected the title. <br />
::: -- [[User:Cvlc|Cvlc]] ([[User talk:Cvlc|talk]]) 11:05, 25 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::: Now that [[Talk:Advanced Format#Rewrite Advanced Format to a new Sector Sizes page]] is done, I suggest adding <br />
:::: {{Tip|Check that your disk reports the correct [[Advanced Format | sector size]]}}<br />
:::: before the partitioning step<br />
:::: -- [[User:Cvlc|Cvlc]] ([[User talk:Cvlc|talk]]) 03:42, 4 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::As I already mentioned, there's a lot of steps involved in that article for unknown gains. Presumably, most people will think it's a requirement (due to the general nature of the article) even when formatted as a tip. Only [[Advanced_Format#Alignment]] is straightforward and already handled by [[fdisk]]. -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 09:51, 9 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
:::: It's true that it's not a very simple article, but it's actually not that bad since people will skip to either HDDs or SSDs sections which are much more to the point. What do you think would be a better way to address this? formatting the disk to the correct sector size cannot be done at a later point in time. Again, all of this stems from the fact that it happened to me, and it's going to happen to anyone with a similar setup (most hardware with recent SSDs). What if I try simplifying the Advanced format article further ? --[[User:Cvlc|Cvlc]] ([[User talk:Cvlc|talk]]) 20:43, 9 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
:::: Perhaps something like "Tip: adjusting the storage device's sector size before partitioning it might be beneficial for performance." [[User:Neven|Neven]] ([[User talk:Neven|talk]]) 00:20, 6 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::I'd omit the "for performance" part, since such claims would need references. And since not every drive can change its logical sector size, IMHO it would be better to explicitly mention to who the tip applies to. From what I understand, that would be a large part of NVMe drives and some "enterprise" SATA HDDs. Despite what [[Advanced Format]] says, I couldn't find anything about SATA SSDs that support changing their sector size.<br />
::::: -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 13:18, 6 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Remove parted ==<br />
<br />
Due to parted [[Advanced Format#Partition alignment|not aligning the partition size]] (and with no patch in sight) which prevents using 4096 byte sectors with dm-crypt/LUKS unless explicitly planned before, I'd like to remove the "[[parted]]" link from [[Installation guide#Partition the disks]]. An alternative would be to change all examples in [[Parted]] to not use percentages and warn against using them. -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 07:21, 7 April 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I prefer to change the examples in [[Parted]]. Just removing the link from installation guide won't stop people from using the tool. -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 10:52, 7 April 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Note on Network Setup ==<br />
<br />
One of the most common installation issues that comes up on Reddit, Forums, and other discussion areas is not having done any sort of network setup. While the Installation Guide explicitly call out Network Setup as a required step, I suspect people are mistakenly believing the setup steps they did already to establish a connection on the installer will carry over to their installed system. <br />
<br />
I propose adding a note such as (example content):<br />
<br />
{{Note| Configuring your network connection above only established your network for the installer. This section will configure the network for your installed Arch system. Failure to do so may leave you without network access after completing installation.}} [[User:Nalthien|Nalthien]] ([[User talk:Nalthien|talk]]) 17:40, 15 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Such a thing [[Help:Style#Notes, Warnings, Tips|does not warrant a warning]] since there's nothing dangerous about being offline. It may even be the safest state the system will ever be. -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 10:24, 18 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:: I can agree that it doesn't warrant a Warning given the style guide; however, I do think a Note would be appropriate to "highlight information easily overlooked." It's clearly overlooked quite often. [[User:Nalthien|Nalthien]] ([[User talk:Nalthien|talk]]) 17:36, 20 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:[[Installation guide#Connect to the internet]] already explains (or tries to, at least) that the live environment's network setup has nothing to do with the installed system. Perhaps the list items in [[Installation guide#Install essential packages]] could be made a little more verbose to explain '''why''' someone may want to install those things. -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 10:24, 18 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Clarify root mount ==<br />
<br />
Without having perused history, I suggest to change [[Installation guide#Mount the file systems]] slightly from<br />
:Create any remaining mount points (such as {{ic|/mnt/efi}}) and mount their corresponding volumes. <br />
to<br />
:After the root volume is mounted, create any remaining mount points (such as {{ic|/mnt/efi}}) and mount their corresponding volumes.<br />
an alternative may be to add to the following tip (e.g. "Alternatively, create it using mkdir(1) beforehand, but only after mounting the root volume.")<br />
<br />
Reason: lsblk will happily show a {{ic|/mnt/boot}}, even if it was mounted too early, potentially messing up ''pacstrap'' and ''genfstab''. It will work, if {{ic|/mnt/boot}} is mounted twice (once before and after root), but it is simpler to explicitly address mount order.<br />
<br />
--[[User:Indigo|Indigo]] ([[User talk:Indigo|talk]]) 17:01, 2 June 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:As the previous instruction is "Mount the root volume...", this seems pretty redundant. [[User:Scimmia|Scimmia]] ([[User talk:Scimmia|talk]]) 18:14, 2 June 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Frankly, I don't remember how the ISO behaves regarding pkg-cache: Will a repeated ''pacstrap'' download updates again? --[[User:Indigo|Indigo]] ([[User talk:Indigo|talk]]) 19:29, 2 June 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::{{man|8|pacstrap}} uses the target's package cache by default. If the target was correct, then there will be no re-downloading on repeated runs. -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]])<br />
<br />
::::Ok, thanks. --[[User:Indigo|Indigo]] ([[User talk:Indigo|talk]]) 19:00, 3 June 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::I think all the confusion comes from new users not understanding the hierarchical structure. How about something like : "Create any remaining mount points (such as {{ic|/mnt/efi}}) and mount their corresponding volumes in a hierarchical order." -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 07:27, 3 June 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::That's clearer for the rest, yes. I'd make that suggestion "Create any remaining mount points (such as {{ic|/mnt/efi}}) and mount the volumes in their corresponding hierarchical order."<br />
:::Regarding the root mount, I do understand the resentment to deviate from the established and proven form, fine.<br />
:::This escapes the topic a little, but perhaps a catch-all procedural sentence is what it needs instead. For example, to the third intro paragraph: "This guide is deliberately kept concise and you are advised to follow the instructions in the presented order per section. For more detailed instructions, see the respective ArchWiki article or the various programs' man pages, both linked from this guide.".<br />
:::--[[User:Indigo|Indigo]] ([[User talk:Indigo|talk]]) 19:00, 3 June 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::Yes, "their corresponding hierarchical order" sounds a lot better.<br />
::::I don't think the resistance to change is that bad. :) We could alter the root mount text if there's some consensus about it.<br />
::::IMHO "deliberately kept concise" gives off a negative connotation. I can't think of any better suggestions at the moment, though.<br />
:::: -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 11:17, 4 June 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::How about "intentionally concise and you are advised ..."? --[[User:Indigo|Indigo]] ([[User talk:Indigo|talk]]) 15:38, 8 June 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::::That sounds better to me. 👍 -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 05:11, 9 June 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::::Or since "intentionally concise" is not concise, "This guide is kept concise and ..." :) -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 13:10, 12 June 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::::::Ok. To summarise, we'd add:<br />
::::::::"This guide is kept concise and you are advised to follow the instructions in the presented order per section." to start the third para intro,<br />
::::::::and change corresponding sentence in [[Installation guide#Mount the file systems]] to<br />
::::::::"Create any remaining mount points (such as {{ic|/mnt/efi}}) and mount the volumes in their corresponding hierarchical order."<br />
::::::::if no further objections arise.<br />
::::::::--[[User:Indigo|Indigo]] ([[User talk:Indigo|talk]]) 16:54, 15 June 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::::::A month has passed with no objections. I think you can update the page now :) -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 13:56, 15 July 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Partitioning tools ==<br />
<br />
Is there any reason gdisk is not listed as an option? If we include parted, despite problems with alignment, I don't see why gdisk is excluded. The wiki page for fdisk actually suggests gdisk as an alternative. I'm probably not the only one who learnt to use gdisk for GPT and it is nice to use a familiar tool if there's no reason not to. But I don't want to add it if it's omitted for a reason. --[[User:Margali|cfr]] ([[User talk:Margali|talk]]) 01:29, 20 August 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:[[fdisk]] linking to [[gdisk]] is the result of a [[Special:Permalink/568741#Example layouts section|previous discussion]] about this.<br />
:Personally, I agree that [[Installation guide#Partition the disks]] should mention [[gdisk]]. My suggestion would be: "Use [[fdisk]], [[parted]] or [[gdisk]] (GPT only) to modify partition tables".<br />
: -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 10:16, 20 August 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::By the same argument, we should then mention cfdisk, cgdisk and any other partition tools. As such I'd suggest the following instead: "Use a [[Partitioning#Partitioning_tools|partitioning tool]] like [[fdisk]] or [[parted]] to modify partition tables". -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 13:32, 24 August 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::Your suggestion is better than the current text at least. -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 08:44, 25 August 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::In the end the situation is quite similar to the one for boot loaders and network managers. I wouldn't mind listing more alternatives (or even tables) in the installation guide, but then the reasoning has to be applied equally to other sections. -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 15:08, 25 August 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::I hope it's nothing like [[Partitioning#Partitioning tools|this sorry excuse for a table]].<br />
:::::The thing with partitioning tools, compared to e.g. network managers, is that there are not that many of them. There's basically just fdisk, gdisk and parted. fdisk & gdisk additionally have scriptable and text user interfaces. And there are GUI ones based on parted.<br />
:::::I'd say let's go with your suggested text for now. We'll get to the greater goal eventually :D<br />
::::: -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 15:22, 25 August 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::::The table in [[Partitioning#Partitioning tools]] got better, so IMHO it should be fine to link to it now. -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 16:04, 28 August 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::::The "old" beginners' guide had a similar table included: [[User:Alad/Beginners'_guide#Partition_the_devices]]. Considering the small size, it could make sense to include the one from [[Partitioning#Partitioning tools]] in the installation guide directly. The downside is the GUI wrappers don't apply to the live environment. -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 16:36, 28 August 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::::::If there's a problem with parted not aligning, it strikes me as perverse to mention fdisk and parted by name, but nothing else. Surely the example tools should be ones which don't need special warnings (if at all possible)? Maybe fdisk should be the only example? (Unless it has changed, gdisk isn't on the ISO, so that's a good reason not to pick it out, but steering people away from parted seems warranted if it is problematic.) --[[User:Margali|cfr]] ([[User talk:Margali|talk]]) 03:13, 30 October 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Consider adding link to Ext4 ==<br />
<br />
In '''Section 1.10 - Format the partitions''', consider adding a link to '''Ext4''' article (https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Ext4).<br />
<br />
The reason is simple - that's what I wanted and expected to be there, but it wasn't, and so I had to google it.<br />
<br />
One deeper reason is that for a beginner, the fact that the "recommended" file system for root partition is called '''Ext4''', might not be intuitive, and it might provoke questions like "Why ext4? What is it? What are the alternatives?".<br />
<br />
[[User:Green Day|Green Day]] ([[User talk:Green Day|talk]]) 20:00, 8 October 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:There is no ''recommended'' file system for root. The section already has a link to [[File systems]], you can find Ext4 there. — [[User:Lahwaacz|Lahwaacz]] ([[User talk:Lahwaacz|talk]]) 08:18, 9 October 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::If we leave out the deeper discussion on what's recommended or not, I'd say nothing speaks against replacing ''ext4'' with [[ext4]] in the installation guide. -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 15:32, 25 October 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== <s>Add alternative ways to configure the new system</s> ==<br />
<br />
There are things like [[systemd-firstboot]] that can serve as alternative ways of configuring the newly-installed system. Those can be linked to in a proper point of [[Installation_guide#Configure_the_system]].<br />
<br />
[[User:YHNdnzj|YHNdnzj]] ([[User talk:YHNdnzj|talk]]) 13:17, 25 October 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:[[systemd-firstboot]] is already in [[:Category:Installation_process]], linked from the first paragraph of the guide. -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 15:30, 25 October 2022 (UTC)</div>Margalihttps://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Talk:KMSCON&diff=754819Talk:KMSCON2022-10-25T23:57:21Z<p>Margali: /* How not to enable on CT1? */ new section</p>
<hr />
<div>== Autostarting VTs ==<br />
<br />
Why do we bother symlinking to autovt instead of using KMSCON's listen functionality?<br />
<br />
{{Unsigned|19:51, 21 September 2016 (UTC)|Willprice94}}<br />
<br />
== How not to enable on CT1? ==<br />
<br />
The page says you can either enable on all VTs except TTY1 or on all VTs. It then explains how to enable on TTY1 and how to enable on all VTs. How do you enable it on all VTs except TTY1? Is it possible to enable it only on specific terminals other than TTY1, such as TTY2 or whatever? --[[User:Margali|cfr]] ([[User talk:Margali|talk]]) 23:57, 25 October 2022 (UTC)</div>Margalihttps://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Category_talk:Superseded_commands&diff=753604Category talk:Superseded commands2022-10-19T01:26:26Z<p>Margali: Is mkfs really superseded? If so, by what?</p>
<hr />
<div>Why is mkfs included here? Neither the information it links to nor the manual page suggest it is deprecated or obsolete. --[[User:Margali|cfr]] ([[User talk:Margali|talk]]) 01:25, 19 October 2022 (UTC)</div>Margalihttps://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Talk:KDE&diff=749506Talk:KDE2022-09-29T02:04:30Z<p>Margali: /* CLI control */ new section</p>
<hr />
<div>== inotify max_user_watches ==<br />
I have found that when using applications like clementine that uses inotify setting it to 10 000 does not help, it needs to be set to 1048576 when the library is 100 000+. This is the only part in the wiki that mentions this value. So I think we need to add a mention here for large collections or have a page that explains inotify a little more. [[User:Tazmain|Tazmain]] ([[User talk:Tazmain|talk]]) 00:19, 14 December 2016 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Screen tearing in nvidia tip ==<br />
<br />
The suggested method have a big impact on many games. It's better to first try enabling the triple buffer, as suggested here: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/NVIDIA/Troubleshooting#Avoid_screen_tearing<br />
<br />
Maybe it would be a good thing to remove the USLEEP suggestion and link to that page instead.<br />
<br />
:Agreed on the linking part. However, "enabling" triple buffering is not better, see the discussion page of the linked article.<br />
:[[User:Aufkrawall|Aufkrawall]] ([[User talk:Aufkrawall|talk]]) 12:06, 17 October 2017 (UTC)<br />
:I found a better solution for USLEEP which is also Plasma/KWin specific.<br />
:[[User:Aufkrawall|Aufkrawall]] ([[User talk:Aufkrawall|talk]]) 15:15, 25 October 2017 (UTC)<br />
::I tried this new tip, as a startup script, but I had some issues. The windows of the applications loaded from the previous session pops out of the splash screen. I suppose that happens when kwin is restarted. Furthermore, my desktop appears completely black and without icons. I need to kill and restart plasmashell to restore it. In my personal experience I found the full composition pipeline + triple buffer trick a better solution for the tearing issue and with a imperceptible impact on performances (i7 4790 and nvidia GTX 1060 here).<br />
::[[User:Masque|Masque]] ([[User talk:Masque|talk]]) 17:43, 26 October 2017 (UTC)<br />
::Have you tried delaying the scrip by a few seconds via sleep? I did a dozen restarts or so without issues. However, I'm not restoring previous sessions.<br />
::[[User:Aufkrawall|Aufkrawall]] ([[User talk:Aufkrawall|talk]]) 10:17, 27 October 2017 (UTC)<br />
::Adding a 5 seconds sleep in the script solves the issues. Strangeley, I found that with this and even without any trick to fix tearing in kwin, the unity engine game I used to test (Tacoma) have some stutter in the more complex scenes. It looks like the other tip (full pl + triple buffer) somehow improves the smoothness, as opposed to what I had read. I can't explain that.<br />
::[[User:Masque|Masque]] ([[User talk:Masque|talk]]) 22:44, 27 October 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Magic Trick (~/.compose-cache) - does it still work? ==<br />
<br />
It seems information of {{ic|~/.compose-cache}} has been lost?<br />
<br />
After a bit of testing, it still seems to work just fine:<br />
{{hc|ls -lh ~/.compose-cache| <br />
-rw------- 1 archie archie 29K 5 mrt 19:27 l4_030_20fca6bc_0e7768ba<br />
-rw------- 1 archie archie 418K 5 mrt 17:23 l4_030_313cb605_00280cc0<br />
}}<br />
<br />
[[User:Francoism|Francoism]] ([[User talk:Francoism|talk]]) 20:59, 5 March 2019 (UTC)<br />
: Is there any upstream link for this trick? We need to show user this low level trick is actually useful. -- [[User:Fengchao|Fengchao]] ([[User talk:Fengchao|talk]]) 08:42, 22 November 2019 (UTC)<br />
::No upstream link, but I'm using the following as reference:<br />
::https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3104<br />
::http://kdemonkey.blogspot.com/2008/04/magic-trick.html<br />
::[[User:Francoism|Francoism]] ([[User talk:Francoism|talk]]) 13:22, 25 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== qt5ct and kvantum bugs after upgrade ==<br />
<br />
This is personal experience though. The true cause are still unknown, but im sure it happens to other user as well especially they who update this when new KDE hidpi option introduced. [[User:Dikasetyaprayogi|Dikasetyaprayogi]] ([[User talk:Dikasetyaprayogi|talk]]) 01:14, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Is there any point in this section now? I remember something like this did happen but I didn't solve it in any of the ways suggested here. (I believe I changed my xorg config.) I don't have kvantum installed and I'm pretty sure I never did. I'm not sure what kt5ct is/was, but it isn't in pacman's repositories now and it doesn't seem to be in AUR either. --[[User:Margali|cfr]] ([[User talk:Margali|talk]]) 16:45, 21 August 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Nvidia GBM support for version 5.23.2 ==<br />
<br />
It seems there will be support for GBM coming with KDE version 5.23.2 and the upcoming Nvidia driver: https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=KDE-Plasma-GBM-NVIDIA-Ready<br />
<br />
The [https://invent.kde.org/plasma/kwin/-/merge_requests/1526#note_325121 merge request] mentions that GBM will be used as standard, but users can still force EGLstreams with:<br />
KWIN_DRM_FORCE_EGL_STREAMS=1<br />
<br />
I guess that {{Pkg|egl-wayland}} will also not be necessary anymore.<br />
<br />
[[User:G3ro|G3ro]] ([[User talk:G3ro|talk]]) 21:00, 24 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== CLI control ==<br />
<br />
It would be useful to have information about controlling KDE from the command line e.g. kwin. This information is hard to find (or I'm bad at finding it) and often useful. For example<br />
: qdbus org.kde.KWin /Compositor suspend<br />
: qdbus org.kde.KWin /Compositor resume<br />
--[[User:Margali|cfr]] ([[User talk:Margali|talk]]) 02:04, 29 September 2022 (UTC)</div>Margalihttps://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Talk:Laptop/Lenovo&diff=745071Talk:Laptop/Lenovo2022-09-06T03:38:12Z<p>Margali: /* Perhaps the ThinkWiki link should carry a warning?! */ new section</p>
<hr />
<div>== Adding new column to the table - Machine Type ==<br />
<br />
Hi, I'd like to add new column to the tables and fill Machine Types at least for most recent laptops. It is very helpful while identifying the laptop. May I? Probably as a 2nd column. Also I'd like to recommend using the official [https://psref.lenovo.com Product Specification Reference] site for the specifications, etc.<br />
<br />
[[User:Dmnc|Dmnc]] ([[User talk:Dmnc|talk]]) 08:05, 10 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Thinkpad P14s Gen 2 touch support ==<br />
<br />
The table lists compatibility with everything available except for touchscreen in the wiki. Fedora supports touch on kernel 5.14 for this model but I have been unable to get it functional on arch LTS 5.16 and base kernel 5.16. I have also been unable to locate any information on getting it to work, only seeing it work on my fedora USB. If I figure it out before anyone else I will post solution, but if anyone had any information to link to the entry or add I'd be eternally grateful. The kernel is recognizing its existence in devices files and I even have the driver for it but dmesg says it has a dummy regulator and all the packets it sends are invalid.<br />
<br />
[[User:Freddyg|Freddyg]] ([[User talk:Freddyg|talk]]) 17:29, 11 March 2022 (UTC) Freddyg<br />
<br />
== Should add a section for the T460 ==<br />
<br />
There is currently a page for the T460p, and the T460s; however, I personally own a T460 that has some quirks that are not covered by the pages for those other two. For example, the fingerprint sensor on my laptop uses the Validity Sensors VFS5011 fingerprint sensor which is supported by fprintd, whereas the other two (according to the arch wiki page) uses the validity sensor VFS7500 which is not supported by libfprintd and requires some special drivers to get it to work. So I propose adding another page for the T460 that addresses these differences.<br />
<br />
== Perhaps the ThinkWiki link should carry a warning?! ==<br />
<br />
The site used to be useful. Then it became less useful, but really just out of date. Now it is covered in adds which partially obscure the content? I kind of wonder about the kinds of ads I might find there next time, too, given the current selection. --[[User:Margali|cfr]] ([[User talk:Margali|talk]]) 03:38, 6 September 2022 (UTC)</div>Margalihttps://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Talk:Nftables&diff=745005Talk:Nftables2022-09-05T18:51:39Z<p>Margali: /* Not very simple firewall? */ Please remove alarmist tag or support it</p>
<hr />
<div>==Bad practice and redundant code==<br />
Sitting beside the nftables maintainer, asking for feedback.<br />
<br />
This page's sample rulesets could use a good cleanup. I'll do that soon.<br />
<br />
TCP flag checks are not necessary, because you can just check for whether the packet is in an invalid state, or just not whitelist:<br />
<pre>/* table of valid flag combinations - PUSH, ECE and CWR are always valid */<br />
static const u8 tcp_valid_flags[(TCPHDR_FIN|TCPHDR_SYN|TCPHDR_RST|TCPHDR_ACK|<br />
TCPHDR_URG) + 1] =<br />
{<br />
[TCPHDR_SYN] = 1,<br />
[TCPHDR_SYN|TCPHDR_URG] = 1,<br />
[TCPHDR_SYN|TCPHDR_ACK] = 1,<br />
[TCPHDR_RST] = 1,<br />
[TCPHDR_RST|TCPHDR_ACK] = 1,<br />
[TCPHDR_FIN|TCPHDR_ACK] = 1,<br />
[TCPHDR_FIN|TCPHDR_ACK|TCPHDR_URG] = 1,<br />
[TCPHDR_ACK] = 1,<br />
[TCPHDR_ACK|TCPHDR_URG] = 1,<br />
};<br />
</pre><br />
<br />
ICMPv6 rate limiting like in the example is just stupid, for it breaks neighbour discovery (IPv6 ARP), ICMP isn't expensive to process, and it's not ICMP in of itself that is the problem. Anyhow, QoS is the job of the traffic control subsystem.<br />
<br />
We probably should make not of kernel requirements for rulesets (e.g., 3.18+, so won't work with 3.14 linux-lts).<br />
<br />
Maybe we should also provide guidance for getting upstream documentation, and troubleshooting. Attendance to netdev01 confirmed that it is in quite active development, and lots of usability features and fixes are in the pipeline.<br />
<br />
Allowing all ICMP is not necessary, and is already handled by conntrack RELATED,ESTABLISHED.<br />
-- {{Unsigned|20:41, 17 February 2015 (UTC)|Alp}}<br />
<br />
== syntax improvements ==<br />
<br />
I noticed there is a request to add '' italics for pseudo variables''. I am planning on doing that.<br />
<br />
However, I would also want to rename some of those variables to make it even more apparent that they can be changed to whatever you want. For example, {{ic|table inet filter}} I would change to {{ic|table inet ''my_filter''}}. Any objections?<br />
<br />
[[User:Igo95862|Igo95862]] ([[User talk:Igo95862|talk]]) 01:41, 18 January 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
: No, absolutely no objections. Though, my personal preference would be to stick to ''filter'' respectively something which can be copy pasted without having to adapt it. In other words, a name which a sysadmin might reasonably choose on his or her system. IMHO this makes it easier for users who want to do exactly the thing that is described in the article and spares them from having to rename ''my_filter'' to something sensible. [[User:Edh|Edh]] ([[User talk:Edh|talk]]) 08:24, 18 January 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I have no opinion on {{ic|filter}} vs {{ic|my_filter}}. My main concern is that pseudo-variables should not match the nft syntax keywords (see examples in the style template in [[nftables#top]]). -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 10:09, 18 January 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
: Exactly. '''filter''' is actually keyword in some statements. '''my_filter''' is not and probably never will be. [[User:Igo95862|Igo95862]] ([[User talk:Igo95862|talk]]) 20:36, 18 January 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:: Ok. I went over the page. Psedo variables are should be ''*_name'' or ''*_type''. The examples use my_* naming scheme for non key word arguments. [[User:Igo95862|Igo95862]] ([[User talk:Igo95862|talk]]) 23:37, 18 January 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::: For those wondering, like myself: this section probably related to [[special:diff/603849]]. Which is probably related to [[special:diff/595487]]. I think the section here should now be deleted, since it was resolved. Other than {{ic|filterName}} vs {{ic|my_filter}}, aren't all comments in agreement? As an aside, other then differently emphasizing the keyword and the name, I think {{man|8|nft}} is using exactly what claimed here to be confusing. [[User:Regid|Regid]] ([[User talk:Regid|talk]]) 12:42, 3 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Imperative vs Declarative syntax. ==<br />
<br />
nftables supports two types of syntax.<br />
<br />
Imperative. Used in {{ic|nft}} command, interactive mode and scripts:<br />
<br />
{{ic|nft add table family_type table_name}}<br />
<br />
can also be in the file with shebang<br />
<br />
{{hc|somefile|<br />
#/usr/bin/nft -f<br />
add table ''family_type'' ''table_name''}}<br />
<br />
Declerative. Only used in configuration:<br />
<br />
{{bc|<br />
...<br />
table ''family_type'' ''table_name'' <nowiki>{</nowiki><br />
...<br />
<nowiki>}</nowiki>}}<br />
<br />
Right now the '''Configuration''' section only gives examples in the imperative syntax, however, '''Example''' section only show declarative syntax. What do you think about showing how to use declarative syntax in configuration alongside the nft commands? At the top of Configuration section will be the explanation when each syntax is used.<br />
<br />
So the '''Create table''' section would look like this:<br />
<br />
==== Create table ====<br />
<br />
The following adds a new table at run-time:<br />
<br />
# nft add table ''family_type'' ''table_name''<br />
<br />
Declaring table in configuration file:<br />
<br />
{{bc|<br />
...<br />
table ''family_type'' ''table_name'' <nowiki>{</nowiki><br />
...<br />
<nowiki>}</nowiki>}}<br />
<br />
<br />
I also added some Accuracy templates in the areas I thought the examples in the article were not accurate. Tell me what you think of accuracy of those sections.<br />
<br />
: I agree, declarative syntax is much easier to understand, and translates directly to imperative syntax. I plan on writing a subsection on configuration explaining the differences and use cases of each before touching on the already existing subsections, but the configuration section needs some improvements for clarity as well. [[User:Ivanmlerner|Ivanmlerner]] ([[User talk:Ivanmlerner|talk]]) 17:28, 18 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
== Not very simple firewall? ==<br />
<br />
:> The factual accuracy of this article or section is disputed.<br />
:> Tango-inaccurate.png<br />
:> Reason: This is not a very simple firewall. I would consider what Arch <br />
:> Linux ships in /etc/nftables.conf simple. Recommend replacing this <br />
:> section with that script and give some directions on how to expand it <br />
:> for specific needs. (Discuss in Talk:Nftables#)<br />
<br />
Just My2cents. I'm a neophyte and I didn't have any problem following the instructions. I was briefly stuck after I changed ''my'' in ''my_something'' to something relevant to my host name (helps me later see pick-out what I create). In a few places I failed to replace a ''my_'' reference and the command didn't work. So, I had a few minutes of grr. <br />
<br />
I much prefer the step-by-step (interactive) pattern. Let's me review each line, together with instructions in earlier sections, to better understand what's doing what.<br />
<br />
That said, '''I agree a simple default example you can just load and run is good.''' Rather than replacing the section, another option is just show the completed ruleset. That's what `nft list ruleset` does anyway, right? Anyone who wants to can copy and paste. Later, peeps can add tips for config and build on the same example.<br />
<br />
[[User:Xtian|Xtian]] ([[User talk:Xtian|talk]]) 18:51, 1 January 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Whether this is a 'simple firewall' or not isn't really the issue. The wiki has a long-standing page explaining how to use iptables to set up a [[simple stateful firewall|''''simple ''stateful'' firewall'''']]. I think it's important that something labelled a 'simple stateful firewall' here be functionally equivalent (if possible) to what's explained there. I don't think 'simple stateful' should be read as simply 'simple'. It's supposed to be a simple configuration of a particular kind. If the use of 'simple' here isn't acceptable, I think the wiki needs to use some other term for both pages and probably add something saying it used to be called 'simple stateful'. But, personally, I don't see the case for that kind of complication. <br />
<br />
I'm not entirely clear whether this is better here or if it should be on the 'simple stateful firewall' page. It's a bit confusing that that page is all about iptables except for a link to this part of the nftables page. I don't know what the best way of resolving that is, but it means somebody looking to setup this kind of firewall is likely to do it with iptables if they just follow the wiki. (I have basically this setup but nftables wasn't a thing/was less of a thing when I followed those instructions.) <br />
<br />
The [[simple stateful firewall]] page I really like precisely because it isn't a cut-and-paste-just-trust me. I think it would be a shame to lose that if nftables takes over. --[[User:Margali|cfr]] ([[User talk:Margali|talk]]) 18:44, 5 September 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Also, I don't see anything in the comments here which justifies the factual-accuracy-disputed tag. If anything, the disagreement is over the name of the section or how to present the information. Nothing said here suggests the content of the section is factually inaccurate. The tag is alarmist in this context. When I see that tag, I assume I can't trust the content because it contains false, misleading or outdated information. But no reasons have been given to think that's true here.<br />
<br />
If it is factually inaccurate, does that apply to [[simple stateful firewall]] too? --[[User:Margali|cfr]] ([[User talk:Margali|talk]]) 18:51, 5 September 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== dnat/snat rules are not recognized ==<br />
<br />
So for example this https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Nftables#NAT_with_port_forwarding doesn't work because dnat is not recognized.<br />
<br />
According to https://wiki.nftables.org/wiki-nftables/index.php/Building_and_installing_nftables_from_sources CONFIG_NFT_REDIR_IPV4 needs to be set in-order to access redirect ruleset which may explain this.<br />
<br />
[[User:Sigmasd|Sigmasd]] ([[User talk:Sigmasd|talk]]) 10:20, 8 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Working with Docker (clarifications)==<br />
<br />
This section is a little confusing to me, could someone help clarify the following points, and I can update the section accordingly:<br />
<br />
'''1.''' <em>"Adjust the 10.0.0.* IP addresses if they are not appropriate for your setup."</em><br />
Is this adjusted to the IP of the '''host interface''', or the '''docker interface'''?<br />
<br />
'''2.''' <em>"Enable IP forwarding and set-up NAT for docker0 with the following postrouting rule"</em><br />
Does this mean create a new chain in my current table, like so?<br />
<pre><br />
table inet filter{<br />
...<br />
chain postrouting {<br />
iifname docker0 oifname eth0 masquerade<br />
}<br />
}<br />
</pre><br />
<br />
'''3.''' <em>"Now you can setup a firewall and port forwarding..."</em><br />
Isn't that what the rule above would do, or does this mean additional setup is required?<br />
[[User:In0ni|In0ni]] ([[User talk:In0ni|talk]]) 23:56, 14 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Poor explanation ==<br />
This paragraph makes no sense to me:<br />
:Chains have two types. A base chain is an entry point for packets from the networking stack, where a hook value is specified. A regular chain may be used as a jump target for better organization.<br />
I don't know what an "entry point", a "hook value", or a "jump target" are in this context. Can somebody rewrite this assuming the audience isn't comprised of network experts? [[User:Chowbok|Chowbok]] ([[User talk:Chowbok|talk]]) 02:53, 23 February 2022 (UTC)</div>Margalihttps://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Talk:Nftables&diff=745004Talk:Nftables2022-09-05T18:45:03Z<p>Margali: /* Not very simple firewall? */ But simple **stateful** firewall</p>
<hr />
<div>==Bad practice and redundant code==<br />
Sitting beside the nftables maintainer, asking for feedback.<br />
<br />
This page's sample rulesets could use a good cleanup. I'll do that soon.<br />
<br />
TCP flag checks are not necessary, because you can just check for whether the packet is in an invalid state, or just not whitelist:<br />
<pre>/* table of valid flag combinations - PUSH, ECE and CWR are always valid */<br />
static const u8 tcp_valid_flags[(TCPHDR_FIN|TCPHDR_SYN|TCPHDR_RST|TCPHDR_ACK|<br />
TCPHDR_URG) + 1] =<br />
{<br />
[TCPHDR_SYN] = 1,<br />
[TCPHDR_SYN|TCPHDR_URG] = 1,<br />
[TCPHDR_SYN|TCPHDR_ACK] = 1,<br />
[TCPHDR_RST] = 1,<br />
[TCPHDR_RST|TCPHDR_ACK] = 1,<br />
[TCPHDR_FIN|TCPHDR_ACK] = 1,<br />
[TCPHDR_FIN|TCPHDR_ACK|TCPHDR_URG] = 1,<br />
[TCPHDR_ACK] = 1,<br />
[TCPHDR_ACK|TCPHDR_URG] = 1,<br />
};<br />
</pre><br />
<br />
ICMPv6 rate limiting like in the example is just stupid, for it breaks neighbour discovery (IPv6 ARP), ICMP isn't expensive to process, and it's not ICMP in of itself that is the problem. Anyhow, QoS is the job of the traffic control subsystem.<br />
<br />
We probably should make not of kernel requirements for rulesets (e.g., 3.18+, so won't work with 3.14 linux-lts).<br />
<br />
Maybe we should also provide guidance for getting upstream documentation, and troubleshooting. Attendance to netdev01 confirmed that it is in quite active development, and lots of usability features and fixes are in the pipeline.<br />
<br />
Allowing all ICMP is not necessary, and is already handled by conntrack RELATED,ESTABLISHED.<br />
-- {{Unsigned|20:41, 17 February 2015 (UTC)|Alp}}<br />
<br />
== syntax improvements ==<br />
<br />
I noticed there is a request to add '' italics for pseudo variables''. I am planning on doing that.<br />
<br />
However, I would also want to rename some of those variables to make it even more apparent that they can be changed to whatever you want. For example, {{ic|table inet filter}} I would change to {{ic|table inet ''my_filter''}}. Any objections?<br />
<br />
[[User:Igo95862|Igo95862]] ([[User talk:Igo95862|talk]]) 01:41, 18 January 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
: No, absolutely no objections. Though, my personal preference would be to stick to ''filter'' respectively something which can be copy pasted without having to adapt it. In other words, a name which a sysadmin might reasonably choose on his or her system. IMHO this makes it easier for users who want to do exactly the thing that is described in the article and spares them from having to rename ''my_filter'' to something sensible. [[User:Edh|Edh]] ([[User talk:Edh|talk]]) 08:24, 18 January 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I have no opinion on {{ic|filter}} vs {{ic|my_filter}}. My main concern is that pseudo-variables should not match the nft syntax keywords (see examples in the style template in [[nftables#top]]). -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 10:09, 18 January 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
: Exactly. '''filter''' is actually keyword in some statements. '''my_filter''' is not and probably never will be. [[User:Igo95862|Igo95862]] ([[User talk:Igo95862|talk]]) 20:36, 18 January 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:: Ok. I went over the page. Psedo variables are should be ''*_name'' or ''*_type''. The examples use my_* naming scheme for non key word arguments. [[User:Igo95862|Igo95862]] ([[User talk:Igo95862|talk]]) 23:37, 18 January 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::: For those wondering, like myself: this section probably related to [[special:diff/603849]]. Which is probably related to [[special:diff/595487]]. I think the section here should now be deleted, since it was resolved. Other than {{ic|filterName}} vs {{ic|my_filter}}, aren't all comments in agreement? As an aside, other then differently emphasizing the keyword and the name, I think {{man|8|nft}} is using exactly what claimed here to be confusing. [[User:Regid|Regid]] ([[User talk:Regid|talk]]) 12:42, 3 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Imperative vs Declarative syntax. ==<br />
<br />
nftables supports two types of syntax.<br />
<br />
Imperative. Used in {{ic|nft}} command, interactive mode and scripts:<br />
<br />
{{ic|nft add table family_type table_name}}<br />
<br />
can also be in the file with shebang<br />
<br />
{{hc|somefile|<br />
#/usr/bin/nft -f<br />
add table ''family_type'' ''table_name''}}<br />
<br />
Declerative. Only used in configuration:<br />
<br />
{{bc|<br />
...<br />
table ''family_type'' ''table_name'' <nowiki>{</nowiki><br />
...<br />
<nowiki>}</nowiki>}}<br />
<br />
Right now the '''Configuration''' section only gives examples in the imperative syntax, however, '''Example''' section only show declarative syntax. What do you think about showing how to use declarative syntax in configuration alongside the nft commands? At the top of Configuration section will be the explanation when each syntax is used.<br />
<br />
So the '''Create table''' section would look like this:<br />
<br />
==== Create table ====<br />
<br />
The following adds a new table at run-time:<br />
<br />
# nft add table ''family_type'' ''table_name''<br />
<br />
Declaring table in configuration file:<br />
<br />
{{bc|<br />
...<br />
table ''family_type'' ''table_name'' <nowiki>{</nowiki><br />
...<br />
<nowiki>}</nowiki>}}<br />
<br />
<br />
I also added some Accuracy templates in the areas I thought the examples in the article were not accurate. Tell me what you think of accuracy of those sections.<br />
<br />
: I agree, declarative syntax is much easier to understand, and translates directly to imperative syntax. I plan on writing a subsection on configuration explaining the differences and use cases of each before touching on the already existing subsections, but the configuration section needs some improvements for clarity as well. [[User:Ivanmlerner|Ivanmlerner]] ([[User talk:Ivanmlerner|talk]]) 17:28, 18 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
== Not very simple firewall? ==<br />
<br />
:> The factual accuracy of this article or section is disputed.<br />
:> Tango-inaccurate.png<br />
:> Reason: This is not a very simple firewall. I would consider what Arch <br />
:> Linux ships in /etc/nftables.conf simple. Recommend replacing this <br />
:> section with that script and give some directions on how to expand it <br />
:> for specific needs. (Discuss in Talk:Nftables#)<br />
<br />
Just My2cents. I'm a neophyte and I didn't have any problem following the instructions. I was briefly stuck after I changed ''my'' in ''my_something'' to something relevant to my host name (helps me later see pick-out what I create). In a few places I failed to replace a ''my_'' reference and the command didn't work. So, I had a few minutes of grr. <br />
<br />
I much prefer the step-by-step (interactive) pattern. Let's me review each line, together with instructions in earlier sections, to better understand what's doing what.<br />
<br />
That said, '''I agree a simple default example you can just load and run is good.''' Rather than replacing the section, another option is just show the completed ruleset. That's what `nft list ruleset` does anyway, right? Anyone who wants to can copy and paste. Later, peeps can add tips for config and build on the same example.<br />
<br />
[[User:Xtian|Xtian]] ([[User talk:Xtian|talk]]) 18:51, 1 January 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Whether this is a 'simple firewall' or not isn't really the issue. The wiki has a long-standing page explaining how to use iptables to set up a [[simple stateful firewall|''''simple ''stateful'' firewall'''']]. I think it's important that something labelled a 'simple stateful firewall' here be functionally equivalent (if possible) to what's explained there. I don't think 'simple stateful' should be read as simply 'simple'. It's supposed to be a simple configuration of a particular kind. If the use of 'simple' here isn't acceptable, I think the wiki needs to use some other term for both pages and probably add something saying it used to be called 'simple stateful'. But, personally, I don't see the case for that kind of complication. <br />
<br />
I'm not entirely clear whether this is better here or if it should be on the 'simple stateful firewall' page. It's a bit confusing that that page is all about iptables except for a link to this part of the nftables page. I don't know what the best way of resolving that is, but it means somebody looking to setup this kind of firewall is likely to do it with iptables if they just follow the wiki. (I have basically this setup but nftables wasn't a thing/was less of a thing when I followed those instructions.) <br />
<br />
The [[simple stateful firewall]] page I really like precisely because it isn't a cut-and-paste-just-trust me. I think it would be a shame to lose that if nftables takes over. --[[User:Margali|cfr]] ([[User talk:Margali|talk]]) 18:44, 5 September 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== dnat/snat rules are not recognized ==<br />
<br />
So for example this https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Nftables#NAT_with_port_forwarding doesn't work because dnat is not recognized.<br />
<br />
According to https://wiki.nftables.org/wiki-nftables/index.php/Building_and_installing_nftables_from_sources CONFIG_NFT_REDIR_IPV4 needs to be set in-order to access redirect ruleset which may explain this.<br />
<br />
[[User:Sigmasd|Sigmasd]] ([[User talk:Sigmasd|talk]]) 10:20, 8 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Working with Docker (clarifications)==<br />
<br />
This section is a little confusing to me, could someone help clarify the following points, and I can update the section accordingly:<br />
<br />
'''1.''' <em>"Adjust the 10.0.0.* IP addresses if they are not appropriate for your setup."</em><br />
Is this adjusted to the IP of the '''host interface''', or the '''docker interface'''?<br />
<br />
'''2.''' <em>"Enable IP forwarding and set-up NAT for docker0 with the following postrouting rule"</em><br />
Does this mean create a new chain in my current table, like so?<br />
<pre><br />
table inet filter{<br />
...<br />
chain postrouting {<br />
iifname docker0 oifname eth0 masquerade<br />
}<br />
}<br />
</pre><br />
<br />
'''3.''' <em>"Now you can setup a firewall and port forwarding..."</em><br />
Isn't that what the rule above would do, or does this mean additional setup is required?<br />
[[User:In0ni|In0ni]] ([[User talk:In0ni|talk]]) 23:56, 14 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Poor explanation ==<br />
This paragraph makes no sense to me:<br />
:Chains have two types. A base chain is an entry point for packets from the networking stack, where a hook value is specified. A regular chain may be used as a jump target for better organization.<br />
I don't know what an "entry point", a "hook value", or a "jump target" are in this context. Can somebody rewrite this assuming the audience isn't comprised of network experts? [[User:Chowbok|Chowbok]] ([[User talk:Chowbok|talk]]) 02:53, 23 February 2022 (UTC)</div>Margalihttps://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Talk:SDDM&diff=744007Talk:SDDM2022-08-31T01:19:33Z<p>Margali: /* Regarding SDDM and root login */ feature</p>
<hr />
<div>== Regarding the language support on login ==<br />
<br />
The instructions do no always work (https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=196248 and I got this too) but there is a work-around<br />
<br />
"Alternatively, if the above doesn't work for some reason, you could edit the file /usr/share/sddm/scripts/Xsetup and add the command setxkbmap -layout ISO, e.g. setxkbmap -layout se for a Swedish keyboard." I don't know if you want this included or if we are doing something stupid to not getting it to work.<br />
--[[User:Shieldfire|Shieldfire]] ([[User talk:Shieldfire|talk]]) 08:46, 1 June 2015 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Regarding SDDM and root login ==<br />
There is some discussion on root login in SDDM here: https://forum.kde.org/viewtopic.php?f=289&t=124502&hilit=dolphin+plasma+5#p328070<br />
Don't know if it's a "feature" or something is broken in SDDM or if it's a bug in Arch (and openSuse).<br />
: There's a clear statement from the developer there now stating that it is the intended behaviour. It's a feature; not a bug. (And other posts noting that, really, you shouldn't want to be running an X session as root, for example.) --[[User:Margali|cfr]] ([[User talk:Margali|talk]]) 01:19, 31 August 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Regarding SDDM 0.14.0 ==<br />
As the default shipped /etc/sddm.conf was changed some parts of the page have to be changed when 0.14.0 lands in [extra]. [[User:Z3ntu|Z3ntu]] ([[User talk:Z3ntu|talk]]) 10:15, 1 September 2016 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== SDDM loading before radeon module (ATI video driver) ==<br />
Some update by 11-Sep-19 made SDDM unable to load normally during the boot process. The Wiki page should encourage the adding of the 'radeon' module in /etc/mkinitcpio.conf [MODULES=(radeon...)]. The update that caused the issue is for sure not related to SDDM, whose version 0.18.1 went out on 31-Mar-19. Probably is kernel or mesa related. [[User:Nicoadamo|Nicoadamo]] ([[User talk:Nicoadamo|talk]])<br />
<br />
:This is already pointed out in various places, e.g. [[ATI#Enable early KMS]]. As you say, it is not related to SDDM. Closing. -- [[User:Lahwaacz|Lahwaacz]] ([[User talk:Lahwaacz|talk]]) 13:55, 21 September 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I disagree with 'already pointed out in various places'. The article you linked only mentions how to, but never says it is a condition for a Desktop Manager to start properly at boot. [[User:Nicoadamo|Nicoadamo]] ([[User talk:Nicoadamo|talk]])<br />
<br />
::So let's see if more people have this problem. -- [[User:Lahwaacz|Lahwaacz]] ([[User talk:Lahwaacz|talk]]) 07:00, 22 September 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== rootless X ==<br />
<br />
Does sddm support running X rootless? It would be helpful to include a statement about this either way. (I can't find this information anywhere. I thought I'd read sddm didn't support it, but is that still the case? And, if so, is it still the recommended DM for KDE/Plasma?) --[[User:Margali|cfr]] ([[User talk:Margali|talk]]) 01:15, 31 August 2022 (UTC)</div>Margalihttps://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Talk:SDDM&diff=744005Talk:SDDM2022-08-31T01:15:58Z<p>Margali: /* rootless X */ new section</p>
<hr />
<div>== Regarding the language support on login ==<br />
<br />
The instructions do no always work (https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=196248 and I got this too) but there is a work-around<br />
<br />
"Alternatively, if the above doesn't work for some reason, you could edit the file /usr/share/sddm/scripts/Xsetup and add the command setxkbmap -layout ISO, e.g. setxkbmap -layout se for a Swedish keyboard." I don't know if you want this included or if we are doing something stupid to not getting it to work.<br />
--[[User:Shieldfire|Shieldfire]] ([[User talk:Shieldfire|talk]]) 08:46, 1 June 2015 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Regarding SDDM and root login ==<br />
There is some discussion on root login in SDDM here: https://forum.kde.org/viewtopic.php?f=289&t=124502&hilit=dolphin+plasma+5#p328070<br />
Don't know if it's a "feature" or something is broken in SDDM or if it's a bug in Arch (and openSuse).<br />
<br />
== Regarding SDDM 0.14.0 ==<br />
As the default shipped /etc/sddm.conf was changed some parts of the page have to be changed when 0.14.0 lands in [extra]. [[User:Z3ntu|Z3ntu]] ([[User talk:Z3ntu|talk]]) 10:15, 1 September 2016 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== SDDM loading before radeon module (ATI video driver) ==<br />
Some update by 11-Sep-19 made SDDM unable to load normally during the boot process. The Wiki page should encourage the adding of the 'radeon' module in /etc/mkinitcpio.conf [MODULES=(radeon...)]. The update that caused the issue is for sure not related to SDDM, whose version 0.18.1 went out on 31-Mar-19. Probably is kernel or mesa related. [[User:Nicoadamo|Nicoadamo]] ([[User talk:Nicoadamo|talk]])<br />
<br />
:This is already pointed out in various places, e.g. [[ATI#Enable early KMS]]. As you say, it is not related to SDDM. Closing. -- [[User:Lahwaacz|Lahwaacz]] ([[User talk:Lahwaacz|talk]]) 13:55, 21 September 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I disagree with 'already pointed out in various places'. The article you linked only mentions how to, but never says it is a condition for a Desktop Manager to start properly at boot. [[User:Nicoadamo|Nicoadamo]] ([[User talk:Nicoadamo|talk]])<br />
<br />
::So let's see if more people have this problem. -- [[User:Lahwaacz|Lahwaacz]] ([[User talk:Lahwaacz|talk]]) 07:00, 22 September 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== rootless X ==<br />
<br />
Does sddm support running X rootless? It would be helpful to include a statement about this either way. (I can't find this information anywhere. I thought I'd read sddm didn't support it, but is that still the case? And, if so, is it still the recommended DM for KDE/Plasma?) --[[User:Margali|cfr]] ([[User talk:Margali|talk]]) 01:15, 31 August 2022 (UTC)</div>Margalihttps://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Talk:Display_manager&diff=744004Talk:Display manager2022-08-31T01:07:47Z<p>Margali: /* rootless X */ new section</p>
<hr />
<div>== rootless X ==<br />
<br />
Would it be appropriate to include a link to the page about rootless X since the choice of DM affects the availability of that option, as I understand it. Better yet would be a list of which do and don't support it. I can't find that anywhere and I can't always find the information on the DM's dedicated pages either. For example, the sddm page says it can run rootless on Wayland but only with an AUR package, but it doesn't seem to say whether it can run X rootless and I'm so confused by now I don't even know what I'm trying to run rootless. --[[User:Margali|cfr]] ([[User talk:Margali|talk]]) 01:07, 31 August 2022 (UTC)</div>Margalihttps://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Talk:KDE&diff=742632Talk:KDE2022-08-21T16:45:20Z<p>Margali: /* qt5ct and kvantum bugs after upgrade */ any point?</p>
<hr />
<div>== inotify max_user_watches ==<br />
I have found that when using applications like clementine that uses inotify setting it to 10 000 does not help, it needs to be set to 1048576 when the library is 100 000+. This is the only part in the wiki that mentions this value. So I think we need to add a mention here for large collections or have a page that explains inotify a little more. [[User:Tazmain|Tazmain]] ([[User talk:Tazmain|talk]]) 00:19, 14 December 2016 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Screen tearing in nvidia tip ==<br />
<br />
The suggested method have a big impact on many games. It's better to first try enabling the triple buffer, as suggested here: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/NVIDIA/Troubleshooting#Avoid_screen_tearing<br />
<br />
Maybe it would be a good thing to remove the USLEEP suggestion and link to that page instead.<br />
<br />
:Agreed on the linking part. However, "enabling" triple buffering is not better, see the discussion page of the linked article.<br />
:[[User:Aufkrawall|Aufkrawall]] ([[User talk:Aufkrawall|talk]]) 12:06, 17 October 2017 (UTC)<br />
:I found a better solution for USLEEP which is also Plasma/KWin specific.<br />
:[[User:Aufkrawall|Aufkrawall]] ([[User talk:Aufkrawall|talk]]) 15:15, 25 October 2017 (UTC)<br />
::I tried this new tip, as a startup script, but I had some issues. The windows of the applications loaded from the previous session pops out of the splash screen. I suppose that happens when kwin is restarted. Furthermore, my desktop appears completely black and without icons. I need to kill and restart plasmashell to restore it. In my personal experience I found the full composition pipeline + triple buffer trick a better solution for the tearing issue and with a imperceptible impact on performances (i7 4790 and nvidia GTX 1060 here).<br />
::[[User:Masque|Masque]] ([[User talk:Masque|talk]]) 17:43, 26 October 2017 (UTC)<br />
::Have you tried delaying the scrip by a few seconds via sleep? I did a dozen restarts or so without issues. However, I'm not restoring previous sessions.<br />
::[[User:Aufkrawall|Aufkrawall]] ([[User talk:Aufkrawall|talk]]) 10:17, 27 October 2017 (UTC)<br />
::Adding a 5 seconds sleep in the script solves the issues. Strangeley, I found that with this and even without any trick to fix tearing in kwin, the unity engine game I used to test (Tacoma) have some stutter in the more complex scenes. It looks like the other tip (full pl + triple buffer) somehow improves the smoothness, as opposed to what I had read. I can't explain that.<br />
::[[User:Masque|Masque]] ([[User talk:Masque|talk]]) 22:44, 27 October 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Magic Trick (~/.compose-cache) - does it still work? ==<br />
<br />
It seems information of {{ic|~/.compose-cache}} has been lost?<br />
<br />
After a bit of testing, it still seems to work just fine:<br />
{{hc|ls -lh ~/.compose-cache| <br />
-rw------- 1 archie archie 29K 5 mrt 19:27 l4_030_20fca6bc_0e7768ba<br />
-rw------- 1 archie archie 418K 5 mrt 17:23 l4_030_313cb605_00280cc0<br />
}}<br />
<br />
[[User:Francoism|Francoism]] ([[User talk:Francoism|talk]]) 20:59, 5 March 2019 (UTC)<br />
: Is there any upstream link for this trick? We need to show user this low level trick is actually useful. -- [[User:Fengchao|Fengchao]] ([[User talk:Fengchao|talk]]) 08:42, 22 November 2019 (UTC)<br />
::No upstream link, but I'm using the following as reference:<br />
::https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3104<br />
::http://kdemonkey.blogspot.com/2008/04/magic-trick.html<br />
::[[User:Francoism|Francoism]] ([[User talk:Francoism|talk]]) 13:22, 25 April 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== qt5ct and kvantum bugs after upgrade ==<br />
<br />
This is personal experience though. The true cause are still unknown, but im sure it happens to other user as well especially they who update this when new KDE hidpi option introduced. [[User:Dikasetyaprayogi|Dikasetyaprayogi]] ([[User talk:Dikasetyaprayogi|talk]]) 01:14, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Is there any point in this section now? I remember something like this did happen but I didn't solve it in any of the ways suggested here. (I believe I changed my xorg config.) I don't have kvantum installed and I'm pretty sure I never did. I'm not sure what kt5ct is/was, but it isn't in pacman's repositories now and it doesn't seem to be in AUR either. --[[User:Margali|cfr]] ([[User talk:Margali|talk]]) 16:45, 21 August 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Nvidia GBM support for version 5.23.2 ==<br />
<br />
It seems there will be support for GBM coming with KDE version 5.23.2 and the upcoming Nvidia driver: https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=KDE-Plasma-GBM-NVIDIA-Ready<br />
<br />
The [https://invent.kde.org/plasma/kwin/-/merge_requests/1526#note_325121 merge request] mentions that GBM will be used as standard, but users can still force EGLstreams with:<br />
KWIN_DRM_FORCE_EGL_STREAMS=1<br />
<br />
I guess that {{Pkg|egl-wayland}} will also not be necessary anymore.<br />
<br />
[[User:G3ro|G3ro]] ([[User talk:G3ro|talk]]) 21:00, 24 October 2021 (UTC)</div>Margalihttps://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Talk:Installation_guide&diff=742363Talk:Installation guide2022-08-20T01:29:06Z<p>Margali: /* Partitioning tools */ new section</p>
<hr />
<div>== Read this first before adding new suggestions ==<br />
<br />
* systemd tools such as ''hostnamectl'', ''timedatectl'' and ''localectl'' [https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/798#issuecomment-126568596 do not work] in the installation chroot environment, so please do not propose to use them in the guide unless you can prove that they have been made to work also in that case. See [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Talk:Beginners%27_guide&oldid=388727#General_problems], [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Talk:Beginners%27_guide&oldid=404695#Replace_commands_with_their_systemd_equivalents], [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Talk:Beginners%27_guide&oldid=418662#Utilizing_systemd_tools] and [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Talk:Installation_guide&oldid=434985#change_configuration_system_from_old_way_to_new_way.28using_systemd_commands.29] for some past discussions about this issue.<br />
* {{ic|localectl list-keymaps}} does not work due to bug {{Bug|46725}}. For the chosen replacement command, see [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Talk:Beginners%27_guide&oldid=435044#localectl].<br />
* Due to the wide variety of available boot loaders, the installation guide refers to [[Arch_boot_process#Boot_loader]] instead of making a specific recommendation for the installed system. See [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Talk:Installation_guide&oldid=687325#Bootloader], [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Talk:Installation_guide&oldid=690612#Make_the_Boot_Loader_Section_slightly_more_detailed_to_provide_a_high_level_overview_for_new_users], [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Talk:Installation_guide&oldid=678949#Expand_Boot_loader_section], [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Talk:Installation_guide&oldid=660151#Expand_Boot_loader_section_to_include_example_commands], [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Talk:Installation_guide&oldid=581427#Boot_loader_installation] for some past discussions on this topic.<br />
* While [[:Category:Installation process]] lists additional installation methods (e.g. [[archinstall]] or [[systemd-firstboot]]), the installation guide does not reference them due to their specific nature. [[Install_Arch_Linux_with_accessibility_options]] is an exception. See [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Talk:Installation_guide&oldid=698307#Point_out_archinstall] for past discussion on this topic.<br />
-- [[ArchWiki:Administrators|The ArchWiki Administrators]] 22:17, 2 September 2016 (UTC)<br />
__TOC__<br />
<br />
== Link to the German version ==<br />
<br />
Instead of [[de:Arch Install Scripts]] you could choose [[de:Anleitung für Einsteiger]] it means "Beginner's Guid" and is a very <br />
detailed artikel for very new arch users and the future experts.<br />
<br />
:Thank you, [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Installation_guide&type=revision&diff=509961&oldid=508505 done]. -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 16:31, 6 February 2018 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::This was already proposed last year and rejected: [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Talk:Installation_guide&oldid=466950#Suggesting_different_page_for_German_translation]. I don't see what has changed since then. If someone adds me as admin to the german wiki or changes the protection settings, I can update [[de:Arch Install Scripts]] as required. -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 18:13, 6 February 2018 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::I see, I didn't remember that discussion so I've reverted the change, hopefully you'll make it to update the translation, let's leave this open until the problem is solved, otherwise this kind of suggestion will keep appearing recurrently. -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 17:53, 7 February 2018 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::Apparently since last year the translation has been halved in size, but its scope is still much larger than the [[Install guide]] (or even the old [[Beginners' guide]]). -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 09:42, 9 May 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== HiDPI on the console ==<br />
<br />
With an ever increasing number of [[HiDPI]] displays, including at the begging of the article a section about adjusting the scaling factor or changing the font can be helpful, see [[HiDPI#Linux_console]]. [[User:Goetzc|Goetzc]] ([[User talk:Goetzc|talk]]) 02:21, 8 August 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:It could be added as an example for {{ic|setfont}} in [[Installation_guide#Set_the_keyboard_layout]]. The issue I have is that [[HiDPI#Linux_console]] mentions that {{ic|tty2-6}} may be unusable, while the Installation guide specifically instructs to change ttys as required in [[Installation_guide#Boot_the_live_environment]]. -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 13:07, 7 September 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::May be as an example for the line "See README.bootparams for a list of boot parameters" [[Installation_guide#Boot_the_live_environment]], it could be specified to hit {{ic|e}} button to edit the boot entry and add the following parameters to the boot line, like {{ic|1=video=1920x1080}} if you have HiDPI display. -- [[User:Xzorg6|Xzorg6]] ([[User talk:Xzorg6|talk]]) 22:41, 15 December 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::{{ic|1=video=}} will just change the resolution. To get a bigger font on the console, you need {{ic|1=CONFIG_FONT_TER16x32=y}} in the kernel config and {{ic|1=fbcon=font:TER16x32}} in the kernel command line. Since the official kernels don't enable {{ic|CONFIG_FONT_TER16x32}}, someone will need to open a bug report asking for it. After that, the instructions for setting the {{ic|1=fbcon=font:TER16x32}} [[kernel parameter]] could be added to the wiki. -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 06:52, 16 December 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::{{Pkg|linux}} 5.5.6.arch1-1 <s>(currently in testing)</s> has {{ic|1=CONFIG_FONT_TER16x32=y}} ({{Bug|64861}}). <s>If if gets move to core before March, then</s> the March iso will have it. It's probably a good idea to start drafting a [[Template:Tip|tip]] to place in [[Installation guide#Boot the live environment]]. -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 11:12, 26 February 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::And just after I wrote this, the package was moved to core. -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 11:27, 26 February 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::I'm seeing multiple claims[https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=253319][https://www.reddit.com/r/archlinux/comments/fbi4vx/text_size_during_boot_changed_since_my_last/][https://www.reddit.com/r/archlinux/comments/fgct3t/how_to_get_currently_loaded_console_font_of_the/] that people with HiDPI screens are getting the TER16x32 font. I was not aware that the kernel chooses a font depending on screen size. Can anyone confirm that this really is the case? If it really works that way and unless {{Bug|65680}} messes this up, then there's nothing to add to the Installation guide about this topic. -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 06:02, 11 March 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::::As per https://lore.kernel.org/lkml/20190618203425.10723-4-tiwai@suse.de/ the decision to use ter16x32 is not based on screen size but only resolution.So even though a 1080p screen may be hidpi it does not use ter16x32 [[User:M.Srikanth|M.Srikanth]] ([[User talk:M.Srikanth|talk]]) 10:17, 11 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::::At least that part is now clear, thanks. The first step should be to get [[HiDPI#Linux console]] up to date. After that, as I've said before, a tip for the installation guide can be drafted. -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 11:04, 11 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::::: I fixed the page and removed the template [[User:M.Srikanth|M.Srikanth]] ([[User talk:M.Srikanth|talk]]) 12:25, 11 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== First mention of /mnt in example partition layout ==<br />
<br />
{{ic|/mnt}} is mentioned at mount point in [[Installation_guide#Partition_the_disks]], while {{ic|/mnt}} is made explicit two sections later in [[Installation_guide#Mount_the_file_systems]]. As I recall it, this was changed because some users blindly copy pasted commands and mounted /boot on the live system, instead of /mnt/boot. Some options:<br />
<br />
* Introduce another column describing the mount point on the installed system. <br />
* Actually explain /mnt early.<br />
* Revert the "mount point" to not include /mnt.<br />
<br />
-- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 13:03, 7 September 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I don't understand what's the actual problem here... -- [[User:Lahwaacz|Lahwaacz]] ([[User talk:Lahwaacz|talk]]) 09:36, 8 September 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::From what I read on [[ArchWiki:IRC|#archlinux-wiki]], this comes from https://www.reddit.com/r/archlinux/comments/d0v0j3/is_it_just_me_or_is_the_prospect_of_installing/ where the user was confused by the lack of root mountpoint (i.e. {{ic|/mnt}} vs {{ic|/}}). A question could be raised, if we should concern ourselves with users who have strong opinions about the wiki content yet can't be bothered to propose improvements in the talk pages...<br />
::About Alad's proposed options: I disagree with the first option, I think it will just complicate things even further. I support the third option and maybe adjusting the column header like in [[Special:Diff/581800]].<br />
::I'd actually would like to go even further and change the commands run from outside chroot to be visually distinct, e.g.: {{bc|1=<span style="color: #ff0000;">root@archiso #</span> mount /dev/sd''X1'' /mnt}}<br />
::I think it would better solve the underlying issue. <br />
:: -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 15:26, 8 September 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::I'm not overly fond of the longer column name. For the last proposed option, I may agree if this is formalized in [[Help:Style]], so that it is not specfic to the [[Installation guide]]. -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 11:20, 10 September 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::Adding it [[Help:Style]] was my intention, since other articles, too, will need to use that style for some commands. I'm thinking of creating a template for it: [[Special:Permalink/581945]]. -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 10:19, 11 September 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::Sounds good to me, I'd just prefer the regular (non-bold) font for the prompt as above. -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 21:54, 13 September 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::::[[Special:Permalink/582327]]. Are there any other opinions about creating such a template? Or should I take this discussion to [[Help talk:Template]] per [[Help:Template#Creation]]? -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 18:31, 14 September 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::::# How are you going to call the template? This template would probably add to the [[Help:Template#Code formatting templates]] series, should it be named in a consistent fashion?<br />
:::::::# Should this template support custom prompts, and if so, should it be called "pc" (from "(custom) prompted" code)?<br />
:::::::# I don't like the red color too much, if bold is not an option maybe we can go green|purple|blue, something that recalls less a warning of some kind? Or can we just leave it with the default font color? Or a slightly fainter black?<br />
:::::::# I haven't looked well into it, but maybe we can instead add an optional argument to [[Template:bc]] and [[Template:hc]] that prefixes a custom (colored) prompt? I wouldn't see a problem with repeating "root@archiso #" in every instance, or we may derive the new template from those two at that point.<br />
:::::::# The template should probably be derived from [[Template:bc]] in any case, for simpler code, see [[User:Kynikos/Template:Sandbox2]].<br />
:::::::-- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 17:36, 16 September 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::::::# Initially I was going to call it [[Template:Archiso]] since it would be [[Archiso]]-specific, but I'm starting to think that creating a more general-purpose template would be better. It could then be used in [[PostgreSQL]] and the {{ic|[postgres]$}} convention would get formalized in [[Help:Style]]. Now the issue is the {{ic|[user@peer-a]#}} in [[Template:hc]] used in [[WireGuard]]. I'd rather not create two new templates, but I'm having trouble getting [[Template:Sandbox]] to work :(<br />
::::::::# I like your "[[Template:pc]]" suggestion.<br />
::::::::# Be glad I didn't post my first draft that was ''slightly more'' colorful. From your offered colors, I'd choose purple.<br />
::::::::# I'd rather not mess with the established templates just for this change, so I'd prefer creating a new template.<br />
::::::::# I didn't even think about using [[Template:bc]]. Is it a good idea to do that? The new template might need to be updated if [[Template:bc]] is ever changed in an incompatible way.<br />
:::::::: -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 07:33, 17 September 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::::::Yeah, after viewing your attempts and looking into it myself, I think modifying bc/hc is out of discussion, it would add too much code/style for so little use.<br />
:::::::::Thinking about this again one day after, I feel I'm realizing that my concerns in general may descend from the fact that we're going to create a template to represent (block) code, even though we already have 2 which basically do the same thing, including allowing to include a prompt; the only addition of this "Archiso" or "pc" template would be the formatting around the prompt, so why not keep it simple (I know, "simplicity" is often subjective and controversial) and instead either make a [[Template:Archiso]] to be used like {{ic|<nowiki>{{bc|{{Archiso}} mount /dev/sdX1 /mnt}}</nowiki>}} or [[Template:ps]] (or [[Template:PS]]) to be used like {{ic|<nowiki>{{hc|{{ps|root@archiso #}} mount /dev/sdX1 /mnt}}</nowiki>}}? They also work with [[Template:hc]] and space-prefixed code blocks!<br />
:::::::::Putting the choice of color aside, if the above idea of a standalone prompt template isn't welcome, I think my second choice would be to make two [[Template:pbc]] and [[Template:phc]] that work like {{ic|<nowiki>{{pbc|$|ls}}</nowiki>}} and {{ic|<nowiki>{{phc|$|ls|...}}</nowiki>}}, with the style rule to use them only in case of complex prompts. I'd still derive them from bc/hc to inherit any changes that we'd decide to make to them, and avoid repeating that ugly &lt;pre> hack even more.<br />
:::::::::Otherwise I give up and accept the [[Template:Archiso]] that works like {{ic|<nowiki>{{Archiso|mount /dev/sdX1 /mnt}}</nowiki>}}, in the hope that one day we won't need an analogous "hc" version.<br />
:::::::::-- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 14:24, 17 September 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::::::::I can't say I really like the idea of {{ic|<nowiki>{{bc|{{Archiso}} mount /dev/sdX1 /mnt}}</nowiki>}} or {{ic|<nowiki>{{hc|{{ps|root@archiso #}} mount /dev/sdX1 /mnt}}</nowiki>}}. I'd prefer creating [[Template:pbc]] and [[Template:phc]].<br />
::::::::::I still don't get what's wrong with [[Template:Sandbox]]. It should just work:<br />
<br />
<pre<noinclude></noinclude> {{#if: code|style="margin-bottom: 0; border-bottom:none; padding-bottom:0.8em;"}}>prompt # command</pre<noinclude></noinclude>><noinclude><!-- The &lt;noinclude>&lt;/noinclude> hack is needed to allow wiki markup inside the pre tags; reference: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/wiki/mediawiki/118688#118688 --><br />
{{#if: code|<pre<noinclude></noinclude> style="margin-top: 0; border-top-style:dashed; padding-top: 0.8em;">code</pre<noinclude></noinclude>>}}<br />
<br />
:::::::::: -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 04:43, 18 September 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::::::::FWIW (and a bit of fun) I've fixed [[Template:Sandbox]], although I'm not sure if we really need that level of automation ^^ I stick to my position above, is there a third (or more) opinion? -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 15:48, 18 September 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::::::I think you like the [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Nl6720&diff=447834&oldid=447833 #800080] shade of purple, right? ;-) [[User:Lahwaacz|Lahwaacz]] ([[User talk:Lahwaacz|talk]]) 11:39, 21 September 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::::::::Yes, I do like that one :D but I think it would be too bright for this template. -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 11:52, 21 September 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::::::::Any news on this one? If not, I haven't seen this kind of issue or confusion occur since. -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 09:37, 31 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::::::::::I don't think I want to create such a template anymore, since it would require updating other installation related pages. To go back to your originally proposed options, I'm for explaining {{ic|/mnt}} early. -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 09:42, 4 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Buggy graphics driver ==<br />
<br />
Can there be a hint that nomodeset parameter could be used if the graphics driver is buggy (I've heard nouveau may be buggy sometimes)<br />
[[User:M.Srikanth|M.Srikanth]] ([[User talk:M.Srikanth|talk]]) 04:47, 12 May 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I would expect this to be mentioned in [[General_troubleshooting]]... -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 09:43, 31 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== GitLab blobs in Lynx ==<br />
<br />
Links to files (blobs) on gitlab.archlinux.org are not readable in Lynx (or any other console web browser); see https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab/-/issues/26567.<br />
<br />
Should the Installation guide link to raw files instead?<br />
<br />
-- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 12:29, 4 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Maybe you could ask svenstaro to add it to https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab/-/issues/232073... -- [[User:Lahwaacz|Lahwaacz]] ([[User talk:Lahwaacz|talk]]) 12:36, 4 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::It has been filed under [https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab/-/issues/232073#nice-to-have nice to have]. -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 17:19, 4 August 2020 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::Instead of using raw links we should perhaps consider if we need links to gitlab at all. The guide has:<br />
:::* [https://gitlab.archlinux.org/mkinitcpio/mkinitcpio-archiso/blob/master/docs/README.bootparams README.bootparams]<br />
:::* <s>[https://gitlab.archlinux.org/archlinux/archiso/-/blob/master/configs/releng/airootfs/etc/systemd/network/20-ethernet.network Ethernet]</s><br />
:::* <s>[https://gitlab.archlinux.org/archlinux/archiso/-/blob/master/configs/releng/airootfs/etc/systemd/network/20-wlan.network WLAN]</s><br />
:::* <s>[https://gitlab.archlinux.org/archlinux/archiso/-/blob/master/configs/releng/airootfs/etc/systemd/network/20-wwan.network WWAN]</s><br />
:::* <s>[https://gitlab.archlinux.org/archlinux/archiso/-/blob/master/configs/releng/airootfs/etc/xdg/reflector/reflector.conf reflector.conf]</s><br />
:::* <s>[https://gitlab.archlinux.org/archlinux/archiso/-/blob/master/configs/releng/packages.x86_64 packages.x86_64]</s><br />
:::Notice how all but one of these share the common path [https://gitlab.archlinux.org/archlinux/archiso/-/blob/master/configs/releng archiso/-/blob/master/configs/releng]. Unless this level of specificity is really required, we could link to this path "for an overview of configuration files shipped with archiso" instead. -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 09:35, 31 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::I'd prefer simply removing some of the links.<br />
::::* [https://gitlab.archlinux.org/archlinux/archiso/-/blob/master/configs/releng/airootfs/etc/systemd/network/20-ethernet.network Ethernet], [https://gitlab.archlinux.org/archlinux/archiso/-/blob/master/configs/releng/airootfs/etc/systemd/network/20-wlan.network WLAN] and [https://gitlab.archlinux.org/archlinux/archiso/-/blob/master/configs/releng/airootfs/etc/systemd/network/20-wwan.network WWAN] don't provide much value here, so they can be moved to [[systemd-networkd#Configuration examples]].<br />
::::* [https://gitlab.archlinux.org/archlinux/archiso/-/blob/master/configs/releng/airootfs/etc/xdg/reflector/reflector.conf reflector.conf] is there just for citation purposes. The [[reflector]] article already explains how the software works.<br />
:::: -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 09:30, 4 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::: Alright, I've removed those links. ([[Special:Diff/700696]], [[Special:Diff/700693]]) -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 11:39, 4 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::: Now that mirrors provide a symlink to the latest ISO version, it's possible to link to {{ic|pkglist.x86_64.txt}}. [[Special:Diff/730318|I replaced packages.x86_64 with it]]. -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 07:31, 21 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Is Lynx (un)readability such a big problem in this case? People using Lynx from the archiso can open up the relevant file in the live system itself... — [[User:Lahwaacz|Lahwaacz]] ([[User talk:Lahwaacz|talk]]) 18:05, 31 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Swap partition vs swap file ==<br />
<br />
Would it be reasonable to stop suggesting using swap partitions and instead recommend creating a swap file? Will genfstab work in a chroot environment to create a correct fstab?<br />
[[User:Managor|Managor]] ([[User talk:Managor|talk]]) 12:50, 3 February 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:There's no reason why swap files should be given preference over swap volumes, using one or the other (or both) is a choice left to the user. [[Installation guide#Example layouts]] already mentions swap files, although, maybe some reference to them could also be added to [[Installation guide#Format the partitions]] and [[Installation guide#Mount the file systems]]. -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 14:51, 4 February 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::If we add a reference the pseudo-text {{ic|/dev/swap_partition}} might be confusing. Then again I don't want another cludge like {{ic|''path_to_swap_space''}} in the guide. -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 09:30, 31 October 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I use arch since 8 years and I have never used swap files or swap partitions. I suggest either delete the section completely because I not see a real practical benefit in swaps or give some information why you should consider adding swap partitions -- [[User:rudolfschmidt|rs]] ([[User talk:rudolfschmidt|talk]]) Sat Apr 23 01:13:55 PM CEST 2022<br />
<br />
::Swap files are very much still relevant, especially on devices with low amounts of RAM (but decent storage devices to support swap). They enable the kernel to push out inactive memory pages as to help avoid OoM situations. [[User:CodingKoopa|CodingKoopa]] ([[User talk:CodingKoopa|talk]]) 05:56, 2 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::: It's even better with the fast storage we have today (e.g. prolonging an old device life with an SSD). --[[User:Erus Iluvatar|Erus Iluvatar]] ([[User talk:Erus Iluvatar|talk]]) 06:12, 2 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Post-installation ==<br />
<br />
I skipped steps in the guide so I faced a weird crash in gnome without any explanations. I suggest a note.<br />
<br />
{{Note|Many of them assume that you have your timezone or locales set up. Make sure you have followed all the steps.}}<br />
<br />
[[User:Escope|Escope]] ([[User talk:Escope|talk]]) 10:11, 2 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:The reader is supposed to follow all the steps. If we apply that to other pages, the pages need a boatload of notes to make sure the reader did not skip any steps. A common functional system has properly configured locales and timezones.<br />
:Since this is GNOME-specific however I would at most add a section into [[GNOME/Troubleshooting]] or even [[General troubleshooting]], but I still think this is out of scope to be honest. Many applications may not work properly when the timezones or locales are not correctly configured.<br />
:-- [[User:NetSysFire|NetSysFire]] ([[User talk:NetSysFire|talk]]) 15:30, 2 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::The reader is not supposed to follow all the steps in case one doesn't worthy of attention. In my humble opinion, that's why it has huge advantage over the "Next-Next-Finish" approach. Unconfigured locales or timezones are obvious to many people, but my inexperience made me spend some time to sorting out. The other pages are highly deep and clear about the steps and why they are needed, my eyes enjoy such notes, pages are boatloaded already and I like it a lot =D. Thank you for your attention to this little change.<br />
<br />
::-- [[User:Escope|Escope]] ([[User talk:Escope|talk]]) 00:23, 3 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::If you're inexperienced, what makes you think you can judge if a step is necessary or not? You thought you knew better than the people that wrote the guide and found out that you didn't. Not something that needs changed here IMO.<br />
:::[[User:Scimmia|Scimmia]] ([[User talk:Scimmia|talk]]) 01:57, 3 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::The ArchWiki should also be about the why-aspect. I am in favor of adding e.g a note about why they are needed and why some applications may crash or behave strangely without properly configured timezones/locales. If you know e.g a nice blog post about this topic, why not add something like this?<br />
:::{{Note|Some applications may behave in strange ways or even crash when the timezones and/or locales are not properly configured. See [https://xkcd.com/1084/ this informative blog post] to know why that is.}}<br />
:::The note needs obviously some rewording, but something like this would fit in well in my opinion.<br />
:::-- [[User:NetSysFire|NetSysFire]] ([[User talk:NetSysFire|talk]]) 02:02, 3 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::Adding a '''brief''' "why" would be ok, but using [[Template:Note]] would be too much. I've also always wanted to emphasize the "and" in [[Installation guide#Localization]], since it's easy to miss (even some of the translated installation guides do not mention {{ic|en_US.UTF-8 UTF-8}}). --- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 08:48, 3 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::People who want to know the "why" can already consult the relevant articles. That said, consistency is lacking: some sections explain in detail why a step should be performed (such as [[Installation_guide#Verify_signature]]), whereas [[Installation_guide#Configure_the_system]] is mostly a checklist of steps with brief instructions how. The solution isn't obvious: adding notes all over would likely more distract than clarify. -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 19:41, 14 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::::I'm definitely apposed to adding notes, but I don't see why we couldn't add brief "why"s without them. -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 06:55, 15 April 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Add link to ALSA firmware in the Install essentials packages section ==<br />
<br />
With sof-firmware gaining more and more traction on newer systems it might be useful to add a link or piece of information that this might be necessary for newer laptops/cards, see [[Advanced_Linux_Sound_Architecture#ALSA_firmware]]. We currently get pretty much daily reports on the BBS where someone wonders where their sound card has gone. I know this is "technically" included in the "install additional firmware not included in linux-firmware" line, but since this is something that hasn't really been necessary for years this is potentially something not everyone is immediately aware of. [[User:V1del|V1del]] ([[User talk:V1del|talk]]) 17:15, 13 August 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Even with a link to [[Advanced_Linux_Sound_Architecture#ALSA_firmware]], it might be confusing that it applies based on the hardware, even when the user wants to use [[PulseAudio]] or [[Pipewire]]. Is there a better place where audio firmware could be described? — [[User:Lahwaacz|Lahwaacz]] ([[User talk:Lahwaacz|talk]]) 20:00, 13 August 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::I tried to have some sort of "standardized" snippet on laptop pages when it needs ALSA firmware, but the ArchWiki is not a hardware db and we cannot document all pieces of hardware. Audio is not essential for some users but a few depend on screenreaders, which is crucial to accessibility.<br />
::In the end it might not cause harm to install sof-firmware when in doubt.<br />
::-- [[User:NetSysFire|NetSysFire]] ([[User talk:NetSysFire|talk]]) 01:17, 14 August 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::I mean if we cover firmware in e.g. [[Sound system]] and link to that instead of ALSA, it would seem much more general. — [[User:Lahwaacz|Lahwaacz]] ([[User talk:Lahwaacz|talk]]) 06:19, 14 August 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::Well for this particular case you can fairly easily identify whether you have a need for sof-firmware with an {{ic|<nowiki>lsmod | grep snd_sof</nowiki>}} or a {{ic|<nowiki>dmesg | grep -i sof</nowiki>}}, but yes might be helpful to move that somewhere else if we want to ensure to have hardware based separation here. [[User:V1del|V1del]] ([[User talk:V1del|talk]]) 12:04, 14 August 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::I [[Special:Diff/692787|added]] {{Pkg|sof-firmware}} as an example (and the aforementioned link) so that there's at least something for now. -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 10:20, 25 August 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Add a check for "native sector size" before/during partitioning step ==<br />
<s>Some pages like [[Solid state drive]] are nearly impossible to get to from just following the Installation Guide. This is problematic as some recommendations from these pages are only relevant '''before''' installation, as it is too late afterwards (notably for setting native sector size as in [[Solid state drive#Native sector size]]. I believe there should be a note in the partitioning step, something like modifying this line: <br />
* If you want to create any stacked block devices for [[LVM]], [[dm-crypt|system encryption]] or [[RAID]], do it now.<br />
to <br />
* If you want to create any stacked block devices for [[LVM]], [[dm-crypt|system encryption]] or [[RAID]], do it now. Also check [[Improving performance#Partitioning]] or [[Solid state drive]] for storage device specific information.<br />
As an alternative, this could be added to [[Partitioning]], but it's already quite big...<br />
-- [[User:Cvlc|Cvlc]] ([[User talk:Cvlc|talk]]) 15:47, 29 August 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Linking both [[Improving_performance#Partitioning]] (which needs improvements) and [[Solid state drive]] seems excessive. Also, it's unclear if the improvement is tangible enough to make users work through yet another wiki article for their basic setup. -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 09:28, 31 October 2021 (UTC)</s><br />
:: An alternative could be to add :<br />
:: {{Tip|Check that your disk reports the correct [[Solid_state_drive#Native_sector_size|sector size]]}}<br />
::at the beginning of partitioning. It's an important optimization step and currently not addressed. On a brand new nvme SSD, strictly following the wiki, I ended up with a wrongly set up LUKS volume because the drive reports 512 byte sectors as the active option, and I only found out after installing.<br />
<br />
::-- [[User:Cvlc|Cvlc]] ([[User talk:Cvlc|talk]]) 16:15, 23 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::Seeing as the "native sector size" is the only issue that can't be simply fixed after the fact (unlike e.g. TRIM), it should be fine to link it (after [[Talk:Advanced Format#Rewrite Advanced Format to a new Sector Sizes page]] is done). As for linking to [[Solid state drive]] in general, IMHO there's no need. It's already linked from [[General recommendations#Solid state drives]]. -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 09:53, 25 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::: Agreed, the sector size issue was the one that really bothered me. I corrected the title. <br />
::: -- [[User:Cvlc|Cvlc]] ([[User talk:Cvlc|talk]]) 11:05, 25 November 2021 (UTC)<br />
:::: Now that [[Talk:Advanced Format#Rewrite Advanced Format to a new Sector Sizes page]] is done, I suggest adding <br />
:::: {{Tip|Check that your disk reports the correct [[Advanced Format | sector size]]}}<br />
:::: before the partitioning step<br />
:::: -- [[User:Cvlc|Cvlc]] ([[User talk:Cvlc|talk]]) 03:42, 4 December 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::As I already mentioned, there's a lot of steps involved in that article for unknown gains. Presumably, most people will think it's a requirement (due to the general nature of the article) even when formatted as a tip. Only [[Advanced_Format#Alignment]] is straightforward and already handled by [[fdisk]]. -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 09:51, 9 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
:::: It's true that it's not a very simple article, but it's actually not that bad since people will skip to either HDDs or SSDs sections which are much more to the point. What do you think would be a better way to address this? formatting the disk to the correct sector size cannot be done at a later point in time. Again, all of this stems from the fact that it happened to me, and it's going to happen to anyone with a similar setup (most hardware with recent SSDs). What if I try simplifying the Advanced format article further ? --[[User:Cvlc|Cvlc]] ([[User talk:Cvlc|talk]]) 20:43, 9 January 2022 (UTC)<br />
:::: Perhaps something like "Tip: adjusting the storage device's sector size before partitioning it might be beneficial for performance." [[User:Neven|Neven]] ([[User talk:Neven|talk]]) 00:20, 6 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::I'd omit the "for performance" part, since such claims would need references. And since not every drive can change its logical sector size, IMHO it would be better to explicitly mention to who the tip applies to. From what I understand, that would be a large part of NVMe drives and some "enterprise" SATA HDDs. Despite what [[Advanced Format]] says, I couldn't find anything about SATA SSDs that support changing their sector size.<br />
::::: -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 13:18, 6 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Remove parted ==<br />
<br />
Due to parted [[Advanced Format#Partition alignment|not aligning the partition size]] (and with no patch in sight) which prevents using 4096 byte sectors with dm-crypt/LUKS unless explicitly planned before, I'd like to remove the "[[parted]]" link from [[Installation guide#Partition the disks]]. An alternative would be to change all examples in [[Parted]] to not use percentages and warn against using them. -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 07:21, 7 April 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I prefer to change the examples in [[Parted]]. Just removing the link from installation guide won't stop people from using the tool. -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 10:52, 7 April 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Note on Network Setup ==<br />
<br />
One of the most common installation issues that comes up on Reddit, Forums, and other discussion areas is not having done any sort of network setup. While the Installation Guide explicitly call out Network Setup as a required step, I suspect people are mistakenly believing the setup steps they did already to establish a connection on the installer will carry over to their installed system. <br />
<br />
I propose adding a note such as (example content):<br />
<br />
{{Note| Configuring your network connection above only established your network for the installer. This section will configure the network for your installed Arch system. Failure to do so may leave you without network access after completing installation.}} [[User:Nalthien|Nalthien]] ([[User talk:Nalthien|talk]]) 17:40, 15 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Such a thing [[Help:Style#Notes, Warnings, Tips|does not warrant a warning]] since there's nothing dangerous about being offline. It may even be the safest state the system will ever be. -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 10:24, 18 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:: I can agree that it doesn't warrant a Warning given the style guide; however, I do think a Note would be appropriate to "highlight information easily overlooked." It's clearly overlooked quite often. [[User:Nalthien|Nalthien]] ([[User talk:Nalthien|talk]]) 17:36, 20 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:[[Installation guide#Connect to the internet]] already explains (or tries to, at least) that the live environment's network setup has nothing to do with the installed system. Perhaps the list items in [[Installation guide#Install essential packages]] could be made a little more verbose to explain '''why''' someone may want to install those things. -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 10:24, 18 May 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Clarify root mount ==<br />
<br />
Without having perused history, I suggest to change [[Installation guide#Mount the file systems]] slightly from<br />
:Create any remaining mount points (such as {{ic|/mnt/efi}}) and mount their corresponding volumes. <br />
to<br />
:After the root volume is mounted, create any remaining mount points (such as {{ic|/mnt/efi}}) and mount their corresponding volumes.<br />
an alternative may be to add to the following tip (e.g. "Alternatively, create it using mkdir(1) beforehand, but only after mounting the root volume.")<br />
<br />
Reason: lsblk will happily show a {{ic|/mnt/boot}}, even if it was mounted too early, potentially messing up ''pacstrap'' and ''genfstab''. It will work, if {{ic|/mnt/boot}} is mounted twice (once before and after root), but it is simpler to explicitly address mount order.<br />
<br />
--[[User:Indigo|Indigo]] ([[User talk:Indigo|talk]]) 17:01, 2 June 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:As the previous instruction is "Mount the root volume...", this seems pretty redundant. [[User:Scimmia|Scimmia]] ([[User talk:Scimmia|talk]]) 18:14, 2 June 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Frankly, I don't remember how the ISO behaves regarding pkg-cache: Will a repeated ''pacstrap'' download updates again? --[[User:Indigo|Indigo]] ([[User talk:Indigo|talk]]) 19:29, 2 June 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::{{man|8|pacstrap}} uses the target's package cache by default. If the target was correct, then there will be no re-downloading on repeated runs. -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]])<br />
<br />
::::Ok, thanks. --[[User:Indigo|Indigo]] ([[User talk:Indigo|talk]]) 19:00, 3 June 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::I think all the confusion comes from new users not understanding the hierarchical structure. How about something like : "Create any remaining mount points (such as {{ic|/mnt/efi}}) and mount their corresponding volumes in a hierarchical order." -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 07:27, 3 June 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::That's clearer for the rest, yes. I'd make that suggestion "Create any remaining mount points (such as {{ic|/mnt/efi}}) and mount the volumes in their corresponding hierarchical order."<br />
:::Regarding the root mount, I do understand the resentment to deviate from the established and proven form, fine.<br />
:::This escapes the topic a little, but perhaps a catch-all procedural sentence is what it needs instead. For example, to the third intro paragraph: "This guide is deliberately kept concise and you are advised to follow the instructions in the presented order per section. For more detailed instructions, see the respective ArchWiki article or the various programs' man pages, both linked from this guide.".<br />
:::--[[User:Indigo|Indigo]] ([[User talk:Indigo|talk]]) 19:00, 3 June 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::Yes, "their corresponding hierarchical order" sounds a lot better.<br />
::::I don't think the resistance to change is that bad. :) We could alter the root mount text if there's some consensus about it.<br />
::::IMHO "deliberately kept concise" gives off a negative connotation. I can't think of any better suggestions at the moment, though.<br />
:::: -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 11:17, 4 June 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::How about "intentionally concise and you are advised ..."? --[[User:Indigo|Indigo]] ([[User talk:Indigo|talk]]) 15:38, 8 June 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::::That sounds better to me. 👍 -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 05:11, 9 June 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::::Or since "intentionally concise" is not concise, "This guide is kept concise and ..." :) -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 13:10, 12 June 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::::::Ok. To summarise, we'd add:<br />
::::::::"This guide is kept concise and you are advised to follow the instructions in the presented order per section." to start the third para intro,<br />
::::::::and change corresponding sentence in [[Installation guide#Mount the file systems]] to<br />
::::::::"Create any remaining mount points (such as {{ic|/mnt/efi}}) and mount the volumes in their corresponding hierarchical order."<br />
::::::::if no further objections arise.<br />
::::::::--[[User:Indigo|Indigo]] ([[User talk:Indigo|talk]]) 16:54, 15 June 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::::::A month has passed with no objections. I think you can update the page now :) -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 13:56, 15 July 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== <s>Archinstall</s> ==<br />
<br />
I think there should be a Note at the top of the Page with a link to [[Archinstall]] as a recommendation for new users. As of now, the only link to [[Archinstall]] is through the link to the Category [[:Category:Installation process]], which IMO is a bit too hidden. The long and at first glance complex Installation scares away new, rather inexperienced users, if there at least was a note or a direct mention of [[Archinstall]] in the first paragraph text recommending it for new users, that would probably do alot for not scaring away new users.<br />
<br />
[[User:OmegaRogue|OmegaRogue]] ([[User talk:OmegaRogue|talk]]) 01:43, 11 July 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:This was [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Talk:Installation_guide&oldid=698307#Point_out_archinstall discussed at length] previously and finally decided against. In the future the installation media itself may contain a reference to other installation methods. Closing -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 12:52, 11 July 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Arch Linux PGP keyring update ==<br />
<br />
I suggest adding these two lines to start of [[Installation guide#Install essential packages]]:<br />
<br />
: Ensure that your installation ISO's signatures are up-to-date:<br />
: # pacman -Sy archlinux-keyring<br />
<br />
I today had to do that before {{ic|pacstrap}} to get past this failure (using<br />
{{ic|archlinux-2022.07.01-x86_64.iso.sig}}):<br />
: error: libcap: signature from "David Runge <dvzrv@archlinux.org>" is marginal trust<br />
<br />
Having done many Arch installations, I'm aware that this is a rare failure of integration between the ISO and the PGP keyring, but when it does happen it could be confounding to beginners. [[User:Ttoirrah|Ttoirrah]] ([[User talk:Ttoirrah|talk]]) 13:23, 28 July 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:While this does make sense, I'd be concerned about introducing -Sy in the Installation Guide. It's something that can cause a lot of problems when used on a regular system. [[User:Scimmia|Scimmia]] ([[User talk:Scimmia|talk]]) 13:41, 28 July 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:It has already been discussed [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Talk:Installation_guide&oldid=569113#pacman-key_--populate here] and [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Talk:Installation_guide&oldid=715151#Mention_archlinux-keyring? here] (but I still think it should be added to the guide) -- [[User:Andreymal|andreymal]] ([[User talk:Andreymal|talk]]) 13:42, 28 July 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I have been beaten by [[User:Andreymal]] on this: this subject has already been discussed and the conclusion was that an update to {{Pkg|archlinux-keyring}} should fix this for good, once it has been deployed. --[[User:Erus Iluvatar|Erus Iluvatar]] ([[User talk:Erus Iluvatar|talk]]) 13:49, 28 July 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:This will be solved by changes to the archlinux-keyring itself at some point, see the [https://lists.archlinux.org/archives/list/arch-dev-public@lists.archlinux.org/thread/MWW2BAT4ONJYWCH2DVHZ74B7PW44I5U3/ recent discussion]. I don't see a need to change the installation guide. — [[User:Lahwaacz|Lahwaacz]] ([[User talk:Lahwaacz|talk]]) 16:18, 28 July 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Partitioning tools ==<br />
<br />
Is there any reason gdisk is not listed as an option? If we include parted, despite problems with alignment, I don't see why gdisk is excluded. The wiki page for fdisk actually suggests gdisk as an alternative. I'm probably not the only one who learnt to use gdisk for GPT and it is nice to use a familiar tool if there's no reason not to. But I don't want to add it if it's omitted for a reason. --[[User:Margali|cfr]] ([[User talk:Margali|talk]]) 01:29, 20 August 2022 (UTC)</div>Margalihttps://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Talk:Solid_state_drive&diff=742347Talk:Solid state drive2022-08-19T19:46:56Z<p>Margali: /* Section on sleep and frozen state */ new section</p>
<hr />
<div>== Don't use noop ==<br />
<br />
The noop scheduler will perform slow but as a result it will greatly frees up CPU cycles. This in the real world will not increase the speed of your read/writes compared to CFS but instead consume less CPU resources. You can benchmark the deadline scheduler which MAY increase performance in some circumstances. By real world benchmarks, I mean anything but hdparm. {{unsigned|22:38, 21 December 2011|Tama00}}<br />
<br />
:Interesting assertion... do you have any data or a source to back it up?<br />
:[[User:Graysky|Graysky]] 17:20, 21 December 2011 (EST)<br />
<br />
::It seems that the cfq scheduler already knows what to do when SSD is detected, so there is no use to change it.<br />
::[[User:raymondcal|raymondcal]] 2012, may 29<br />
<br />
:::''CFQ has some optimizations for SSDs and if it detects a non-rotational media which can support higher queue depth (multiple requests at in flight at a time), then it cuts down on idling of individual queues and all the queues move to sync-noidle tree and only tree idle remains. This tree idling provides isolation with buffered write queues on async tree.''<br />
:::https://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/block/cfq-iosched.txt<br />
:::[[User:ushi|ushi]] 2013, November 03<br />
<br />
::::So does anyone have any good data? My research says deadline is best and that "cfq has some optimizations" doesn't mean it's better than others. <br />
::::[[User:MindfulMonk|MindfulMonk]] ([[User talk:MindfulMonk|talk]]) 22:38, 5 July 2014 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== TRIM and RAID ==<br />
<br />
The wiki article within the warning in the section '''Enable continuous TRIM by mount flag''' says: A possible [https://lore.kernel.org/linux-raid/013e01d0c1d2$f3af4fb0$db0def10$@samsung.com/ patch] has been posted on July 19, 2015.''"<br />
<br />
The quoted article seems to be saying that there is a serious kernel bug which impacts when SSD's are being used with linux software raid.<br />
<br />
Is that a confirmed kernel bug? If it is then shouldnt the wiki point this out?<br />
{{unsigned|27 September 2015 08:26|Sja1440}}<br />
<br />
:The bug was manifested for particular brand SSD bios only, which were blacklisted. Since TRIM is a standard and other brands work fine, this issue was not regarded a kernel bug to my knowledge. Nonetheless, they may (have) merge(d) the patch to work-around the bios bugs. If someone has a related bug report where it is tracked or kernel commit, it would be useful to add, I agree. -[[User:Indigo|Indigo]] ([[User talk:Indigo|talk]]) 09:23, 27 September 2015 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::I found [http://linux.slashdot.org/story/15/07/30/1814200/samsung-finds-fixes-bug-in-linux-trim-code this] Slashdot discussion (linked with [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Solid_State_Drives&type=revision&diff=402057&oldid=400007]) where there's a link to a kernel commit, although they're talking of a bug in the firmware too, and in fact the devices seem to be still [https://github.com/torvalds/linux/blob/master/drivers/ata/libata-core.c#L4220 blacklisted]. — [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 02:26, 28 September 2015 (UTC)<br />
<br />
: Samsung's patch about data corruption are now merged, but full blacklist still here in Linux 4.5 https://github.com/torvalds/linux/blob/v4.5/drivers/ata/libata-core.c#L4223 for a lot of SDD brand, in particular all the popular Samsung 8 series (840|850 EVO|PRO). I still cannot find any information about the source issue and when it will be whitelisted. The article should warn user that all those SSD models should be avoided until a solution. Note that also --[[User:Nomorsad|Nomorsad]] ([[User talk:Nomorsad|talk]]) 11:03, 26 March 2016 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:: The article does warn; I have updated with your 4.5 link, thanks for follow-up. They added one more drive model to the blacklist since then.[https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Solid_State_Drives&type=revision&diff=427892&oldid=424520] --[[User:Indigo|Indigo]] ([[User talk:Indigo|talk]]) 11:19, 26 March 2016 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Remove the section on continuous trim ==<br />
<br />
The section on continuous trim should be removed and a warning added to the trim timer section. There are about a million reasons why people shouldn't use continuous trim and unless there is a very compelling reason for someone to use it that I don't know of, that information doesn't seem useful enough to stick around and could cause a lot of harm.<br />
<br />
[[User:Meskarune|Meskarune]] ([[User talk:Meskarune|talk]]) 13:30, 29 July 2016 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Lack of information can cause a lot of harm as well, so I think we'd better keep the section. -- [[User:Lahwaacz|Lahwaacz]] ([[User talk:Lahwaacz|talk]]) 13:50, 29 July 2016 (UTC)<br />
:I've [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Solid_State_Drives&type=revision&diff=443642&oldid=443586 trimmed] the warning a little, so now I think the only reason against is performance related, although the given link for Theodor Ts'o's opinion doesn't work anymore. -- [[User:Lahwaacz|Lahwaacz]] ([[User talk:Lahwaacz|talk]]) 16:42, 29 July 2016 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::The link does not work, because [https://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/2016/07/28/the-end-of-gmane/ gmane] is unavailable at current (it is likely someone else will resume its web service so that links will return to availabilty). <br />
::I agree regarding continuous trim, it is important info. (I don't think we need the singular quote from the Ted T'so's rm'ed link, it dates).<br />
::Also, one may argue, since the identification and blacklisting of unreliable devices (some are explicitly whitelisted for certain trim methods too) the reasons to mount with discard have grown. Another reason to have continuous trim enabled devices: Imagine your device runs at about ~66% capacity occupation. Since the drives don't hold a table what's trimmed in last run, this means that each timed fstrim runs over a third of the drive, again and again. With a discard mount flag, any freed up space is only trimmed once. Now how much wear-levelling difference this means, depends on usage pattern. The more static the data on the drive (e.g. a mailing list archive like gmane), the more proportionate wear from fstrim. Even if wear-levelling is not an issue with the device, letting it perform an action once instead of redundant times is a matter of efficiency. If you find this a compelling reason, I don't know. --[[User:Indigo|Indigo]] ([[User talk:Indigo|talk]]) 07:13, 30 July 2016 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== fstrim, btrfs and other fs ==<br />
IMO, the table with trim support should note that running fstrim on btrfs produces different output than on other filesystems. If I run fstrim multiple times in a row for example on ext4, the first time I get "freed X bytes", and on the consequent runs I get "freed 0 bytes" and the subsequent runs are done immediately. On btrfs, however, I always get the same number and it takes the same time as the first run. I didn't tried on other filesystems than these two, but it can be confusing and suggest that there is some misconfiguration for users who are not aware of this. --[[User:Zopper|Zopper]] ([[User talk:Zopper|talk]]) 12:17, 1 Sep 2016 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Periodic trim "Enabling the timer will activate the service weekly." ==<br />
<br />
So if I want a trim once a week, I don't enable the service but just the timer? And do I understand correctly that if I enable the service, I get a trim every reboot and if I enable both the service and the timer, I get a trim every reboot and every week? [[User:Raygun|Raygun]] ([[User talk:Raygun|talk]]) 09:37, 25 May 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:{{ic|fstrim.service}} does not contain the {{ic|[Install]}} section, so it cannot be enabled. -- [[User:Lahwaacz|Lahwaacz]] ([[User talk:Lahwaacz|talk]]) 15:48, 25 May 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== fstrim on non-ssd, e.g. QEMU ==<br />
I'm not sure if this fit's into this articel, or better another, but I think it should be mentioned, that the trim could be useful on non-ssd disks, e.g. on QEMU disks with harddrives. This is of course not the same trim like on ssd, but it't the same intention: inform the storage system about unused blocks, e.g. to avoid defragmenation, shrink the image. Example from an KVM system with QEMU disks, labeled not as SSD but with SAS storage on the product page:<br />
<br />
$ lsblk --discard <br />
NAME DISC-ALN DISC-GRAN DISC-MAX DISC-ZERO<br />
sda 0 4K 1G 0<br />
├─sda2 0 4K 1G 0<br />
<br />
$ sudo fstrim -v -a <br />
/: 390,8 MiB (409780224 bytes) trimmed on /dev/sda2 <br />
<br />
scsi-0QEMU_QEMU_HARDDISK_drive-scsi0-0-0-0-part2 -> ../../sda2<br />
<br />
[[User:Ua4000|Ua4000]] ([[User talk:Ua4000|talk]]) 18:00, 25 January 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== The links provided for SanDisk are broken ==<br />
<br />
The '''SanDisk''' subsection under the '''Firmware''' section lists six links that are all broken: three for '''release notes''' and three for '''manually updating'''.<br />
<br />
{{unsigned|00:33, 21 December 2021|Pound Hash}}<br />
<br />
== Section on sleep and frozen state ==<br />
<br />
Does this apply only to SATA devices? If so, this should be made clear. The linked wiki pages say (if I'm reading them correctly) that the ATA secure erase stuff does not apply to nvme devices, in which case this section is irrelevant at best for these SSDs. --[[User:Margali|cfr]] ([[User talk:Margali|talk]]) 19:46, 19 August 2022 (UTC)</div>Margalihttps://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Talk:AUR_helpers&diff=728630Talk:AUR helpers2022-05-06T02:27:00Z<p>Margali: /* Which columns? */ new section</p>
<hr />
<div>== Is {{AUR|pacaur}} still active? ==<br />
<br />
{{AUR|pacaur}} is now a forked version and the new forked version hasn't been updated for more than a year. The author is not responding to issues and pull requests any more. Shall we add a friendly notice about this?<br />
[[User:Simonmysun|Simonmysun]] ([[User talk:Simonmysun|talk]]) 02:39, 26 March 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:There's a commit from 11 days ago. [https://github.com/E5ten/pacaur/commit/0b63edae748a21392d671884221ec5a3072bf79a] -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 09:13, 4 May 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::It seems the project has indeed stalled. However, there were previous attempts to mark "old" helpers in the table. The response of helper authors was then to add trivial tags (like version bumps) to their project, simulating activity. As such, as long as the project is in AUR and still working, it seems best to leave this for users to decide. -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 15:53, 20 March 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Add table column for [[AUR helpers#Pacman wrappers]] ==<br />
<br />
We have a note right above the table, would it not be better to create a new column for the information it contains? --[[User:Erus Iluvatar|Erus Iluvatar]] ([[User talk:Erus Iluvatar|talk]]) 08:26, 20 March 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:The article went back and forth on this, the main issue being to define "batch operations" in the first place. This term was originally introduced by {{AUR|pacaur}} and comes down to 1. guessing which packages need to be replaced beforehand 2. using {{ic|pacman --ask}} (undocumented feature) to invert {{ic|pacman --noconfirm}} prompts from {{ic|N}} to {{ic|Y}} during the build process. <br />
:Making this a column with Yes/No implies this is a desirable feature. I argue that depending on undocumented features with a bug-prone implementation (what if the wrong package is replaced on the user's system?) can not be classified as such. Furthermore, it gives the impression this somehow leads to ''less'' interaction on the user's behalf, which is false (in fact, the vast majority of pacman wrappers play a game of whack-a-mole with {{ic|y/N}} prompts). A Note is more neutral, and leaves out whether a feature is wanted or not in the middle.<br />
:In any case, the other columns, Shell completion excepted, are better suited as basic requirements for a reliable AUR helper. And as far as basic requirements go, they are relatively simple to implement for AUR helper authors looking at this article - unlike a "batch operation" mechanism. -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 15:47, 20 March 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:: Thank you ! I better understand now the reason why this is not already done. --[[User:Erus Iluvatar|Erus Iluvatar]] ([[User talk:Erus Iluvatar|talk]]) 16:26, 20 March 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Which columns? ==<br />
<br />
Are the missing columns not relevant to the kind of helper covered in the tables? For example, is 'file review' not a concern for 'search & download'? Or the diff feature? I understand these helpers aren't triggering the build, but does that rule out their implementing the review/diff features altogether? --[[User:Margali|cfr]] ([[User talk:Margali|talk]]) 02:27, 6 May 2022 (UTC)</div>Margalihttps://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Talk:Media_Transfer_Protocol&diff=715341Talk:Media Transfer Protocol2022-02-03T19:38:12Z<p>Margali: /* Usage mtp-connect */ & /* libmtp generally */</p>
<hr />
<div>== Custom udev rules and rebooting ==<br />
<br />
In a couple of places {{ic|/usr/lib/udev/rules.d/}} is used as location for custom {{ic|udev}} rules. Isn't the {{ic|/etc/udev/rules.d/}} a better place for them? If so I propose to change {{ic|/usr/lib/udev/rules.d/}} to {{ic|/etc/udev/rules.d/}}.<br />
<br />
Also, there's no need for rebooting the system, as suggested in [[MTP#gvfs-mtp troubleshooting]]. What is that? A Windows? ;} I think this should be removed or changed to some other means like “relogging”.<br />
<br />
--thebodzio 22:34, 29 December 2014 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Yes to both, [[Udev#About udev rules]] and [[Udev#Loading new rules]]. -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 01:39, 31 December 2014 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:: May be it must be removed "This article or section is a candidate for merging with udev."? I have added more related info to gvfs-mtp but not related to udev, I think that it is good if will stay here as it is. (Andy Crowd - [[wikipedia:蔡依林|蔡依林]] 18:28, 17 August 2016 (UTC)).<br />
<br />
::I am not sure about two probably similar [[udev]] rules [[MTP#Media_players]] and [[MTP#gvfs-mtp]], may be to have only one is enough and merge both?(Andy Crowd - [[wikipedia:蔡依林|蔡依林]] 22:58, 19 August 2016 (UTC)) <br />
:: EDIT: <br />
:: I will try to merge them after few days, I hope it is OK. (Andy Crowd - [[wikipedia:蔡依林|蔡依林]] 21:24, 20 August 2016 (UTC))<br />
<br />
:: This is what I mean about merging Media players and gvfs-mtp sections and udev rules:<br />
ATTR{idVendor}=="04b7", ATTR{idProduct}=="88a9", SYMLINK+="libmtp", MODE="660", ENV{ID_MTP_DEVICE}="1"<br />
+<br />
SUBSYSTEM=="usb", ATTR{idVendor}=="04b7", ATTR{idProduct}=="88a9", MODE="0666", OWNER="[username]"<br />
=<br />
SUBSYSTEM=="usb", ATTR{idVendor}=="04b7", ATTR{idProduct}=="88a9", MODE="0660", GROUP="uucp", ENV{ID_MTP_DEVICE}="1", SYMLINK+="libmtp"<br />
:: (Andy Crowd - [[wikipedia:蔡依林|蔡依林]] 19:42, 21 August 2016 (UTC)).<br />
<br />
:: In Archlinux I have no problem with detecting my phone without Udev rules but in Debian I have tested both udev rules and only the last that I combined worked perfect, I could both see and mount MTP in Thunar.<br />
<br />
:: (Andy Crowd - [[wikipedia:蔡依林|蔡依林]] 11:12, 22 August 2016 (UTC))<br />
<br />
:: About restarting computer: after changing Udev rules and reload them is not working, I think that it is also necessary restart gvfsd and related to it processes or just reboot computer that helped me much better. Did some else tested it?<br />
:: (Andy Crowd - [[wikipedia:蔡依林|蔡依林]] 18:46, 22 August 2016 (UTC)).<br />
<br />
== Usage mtp-connect ==<br />
<br />
"You can transfer files using the {{ic|mtp-connect}} command." How? --[[User:Sleeping|Sleeping]] ([[User talk:Sleeping|talk]]) 16:45, 23 November 2018 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:When you run the command it tells you (provided that ''mtp-detect'' was successful). --[[User:Larivact|Larivact]] ([[User talk:Larivact|talk]]) 16:58, 23 November 2018 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Not for me, it doesn't. I *can* see files and folders etc. with mtp-files and so on. But mtp-connect tells me nothing and remains a mystery. --[[User:Margali|cfr]] ([[User talk:Margali|talk]]) 19:37, 3 February 2022 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== libmtp ==<br />
<br />
Does this actually provide any command line tools, as the wiki claims? The README for libmtp says explicitly that it provides no tools and only 'examples' which are deliberately undocumented and not intended for use. If that's right, it is misleading to describe them otherwise. It just leads to much frustration and wasted time. --[[User:Margali|cfr]] ([[User talk:Margali|talk]]) 19:37, 3 February 2022 (UTC)</div>Margalihttps://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Talk:AirPort&diff=536341Talk:AirPort2018-08-19T20:01:27Z<p>Margali: Created page with "The introductory description here is wrong. It may be correct for some models, but mine do not have 4 ethernet ports. I believe they have 2 and not the ac wireless (though I'm..."</p>
<hr />
<div>The introductory description here is wrong. It may be correct for some models, but mine do not have 4 ethernet ports. I believe they have 2 and not the ac wireless (though I'm not sure about the latter). The point is that there are different Airport Extreme models, whereas this makes it sound as if there is just one. --[[User:Margali|cfr]] ([[User talk:Margali|talk]]) 20:01, 19 August 2018 (UTC)</div>Margalihttps://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Talk:GRUB/EFI_examples&diff=529356Talk:GRUB/EFI examples2018-07-12T23:38:40Z<p>Margali: /* X270 */ new section</p>
<hr />
<div><br />
perhaps add examples for virtualbox and vmware here?<br />
<br />
they are common.<br />
<br />
== X270 ==<br />
<br />
There's no need to do anything special for UEFI booting on this laptop. It boots fine using EFI applications installed in standard places - no need to use the fallback path (unless this is some weirdness specific to GRUB). --[[User:Margali|cfr]] ([[User talk:Margali|talk]]) 23:38, 12 July 2018 (UTC)</div>Margalihttps://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Unified_Extensible_Firmware_Interface/Hardware&diff=497130Unified Extensible Firmware Interface/Hardware2017-11-17T18:11:14Z<p>Margali: /* Lenovo ThinkPad x121e */ additional notes/update</p>
<hr />
<div>[[Category:Boot process]]<br />
{{Style}}<br />
{{Out of date}}<br />
<br />
This is a subpage of the main article [[Unified Extensible Firmware Interface]]. It provides information about the hardware compatibility with [[UEFI]] under Arch Linux.<br />
<br />
== Required info ==<br />
<br />
# System OEM/Vendor (like Dell, HP, Lenovo etc.) and Model (like ThinkPad x121e etc.) - all info needed<br />
# Processor with the model number (full info like Intel Core i7 xxxx 1.8 GHz - for eg.)<br />
# Chipset info (Intel P67 or H67 etc.)<br />
# Motherboard with full model number - required if desktop, optional for laptop<br />
# BIOS/UEFI vendor - AMI Aptio, Phoenix SecureCore Tiano, Insyde H2O etc. (very important) with updated month/year (will be shown as copyright year in some firmwares)<br />
# Were you able to create a working entry in UEFI Boot menu using efibootmgr? Any specific issues like black screen or something like http://forum-en.msi.com/index.php?topic=153411.0 ?<br />
# If you were able to launch the UEFI Shell in ways other than using {{ic|(USB)/efi/boot/bootx64.efi}} or Archboot, how?<br />
# Output of UEFI Shell "ver" command.<br />
# If efibootmgr did not work for you and you were able to launch UEFI Shell, did you use bcfg command to create UEFI Boot Menu entry? Did bcfg created boot entry work for you?<br />
# Filesystem of UEFI System Partition? FAT32 or FAT16? (Mostly it should be FAT32 but some firmwares have problems with it, which is a violation of UEFI Spec.)<br />
# Any graphics/video card issues that occur in UEFI boot alone and not in BIOS boot? Like Nvidia closed-source driver's lack of Kernel Mode Setting etc.<br />
<br />
{{Note|In any user discussion in irc , forum or mailing lists etc. regarding UEFI, add your system info here and link to this page in the discussion to help solve the issue(s) quickly.}}<br />
<br />
Original Post: https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=133074.<br />
<br />
----<br />
<br />
== Lenovo ThinkPad t420s ==<br />
<br />
* intel core i7 2640M 2.80GHz<br />
* Phoenix SecureCore Tiano, 2011<br />
* UEFI bios version 8CET51WW (1.31), dated 2011-11-29<br />
* efibootmgr can create entries in menu just fine. looks good.<br />
* FAT32<br />
<br />
== Lenovo ThinkPad x121e ==<br />
<br />
# Model: Lenovo ThinkPad x121e 3045CTO<br />
# Processor: Intel(R) Core(TM) i3-2367M CPU @ 1.40GHz GenuineIntel<br />
# BIOS/UEFI vendor: Phoenix SecureCore Tiano<br />
# Could create a working entry in UEFI Boot menu using efibootmgr.<br />
# Have not managed to launch UEFI shell.<br />
# Filesystem of UEFI System Partition : FAT16 OR FAT32 with a sufficiently large ESP. FAT32 does ''NOT'' work with a smaller partition size. More info at https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=131149.<br />
# Stub loader does not work either directly or with a boot loader such as refind. EFI boot requires a boot manager such as grub.<br />
<br />
=== Additional notes ===<br />
<br />
* Works fine with MBR partition map in BIOS mode.<br />
* Also works fine with GPT partition map in UEFI mode but ONLY if the EFI partition is formatted as fat 16 OR the partition is large enough to officially support fat 32.<br />
* Cannot get it to boot from a GPT disk in BIOS mode.<br />
* I did not try archboot.<br />
<br />
== Lenovo ThinkCenter M92z ==<br />
<br />
# Intel(R) Pentium(R) CPU G2020 @ 2.90GHz<br />
# Motherboard: Lenovo MAHOBAY<br />
# Bios Version: American Megatrends, flashed with 9NKT60AUS Lenovo Bios Update, Release Date: 1/16/2014 <br />
# Use of efibootmgr: see just below<br />
# UEFI V.2.3.1 <br />
# I did not try to create entries with bcfg<br />
# Filesystem of UEFI System Partition? FAT32.<br />
<br />
Notes:<br />
The main problem of this computer is that the entries created by efibootmgr sometimes disappear after the next reboot.<br />
Example after the reboot:<br />
<br />
Boot0000* rEFInd Boot Manager Vendor(99e275e7-75a0-4b37-a2e6-c5385e6c00cb,)<br />
Boot0001* debian HD(1,800,f3800,b500458e-3e0e-4299-bc41-48424508bced)File(\EFI\debian\grubx64.efi)<br />
<br />
In this case after I installed the debian entry, a part of the entry for '''rEFInd''' disappeared.<br />
A step by step boot configuration with refind is available here: https://gist.github.com/EmmanuelKasper/9590327<br />
<br />
== Intel DZ77GA-70K ==<br />
<br />
# System OEM/Vendor (like Dell, HP, Lenovo etc.) and Model (like ThinkPad x121e etc.) - all info needed <br />
#* Intel DZ77GA-70K<br />
# Processor with the model number (full info like Intel Core i7 xxxx 1.8 GHz - for eg.)<br />
#* Intel Core i7 3770K<br />
# Chipset info (Intel P67 or H67 etc.)<br />
#* Z77<br />
# Motherboard with full model number - required if desktop, optional for laptop<br />
#* Intel DZ77GA-70K<br />
# BIOS/UEFI vendor - AMI Aptio, Phoenix SecureCore Tiano, Insyde H2O etc. (very important) with updated month/year (will be shown as copyright year in some firmwares)<br />
#* (from hardinfo, under a bios boot)<br />
-BIOS-<br />
Date : 07/13/2012<br />
Vendor : Intel Corp. (www.intel.com)<br />
Version : GAZ7711H.86A.0049.2012.0713.1518<br />
-Board-<br />
Name : DZ77GA-70K<br />
Vendor : Intel Corporation (www.intel.com)<br />
# Were you able to create a working entry in UEFI Boot menu using efibootmgr? Any specific issues like black screen or something like http://forum-en.msi.com/index.php?topic=153411.0 ?<br />
#* No. Linux cannot boot through uefi on this motherboard, with this bios revision.<br />
# If you were able to launch the UEFI Shell in ways other than using {{ic|(USB)/efi/boot/bootx64.efi}} or Archboot, how?<br />
#* No, however bootx64.efi works, archboot does not.<br />
# Output of UEFI Shell "ver" command.<br />
UEFI Interactive Shell v2.0<br />
Copyright 2009-2011 Intel(r) Corporation. All rights reserved. Beta build 1.0<br />
UEFI v2.31 (American Megatrends, 0x0004028D)<br />
# If efibootmgr did not work for you and you were able to launch UEFI Shell, did you use bcfg command to create UEFI Boot Menu entry? Did bcfg created boot entry work for you?<br />
#* booting through bcfg produced the same results as booting from the shell, didn't work.<br />
# Filesystem of UEFI System Partition? FAT32 or FAT16? (Mostly it should be FAT32 but some firmwares have problems with it, which is a violation of UEFI Spec.)<br />
#* Both FAT32 and FAT16 do not work.<br />
# Any graphics/video card issues that occur in UEFI boot alone and not in BIOS boot? Like Nvidia closed-source driver's lack of Kernel Mode Setting etc.<br />
#* Kernel hangs after attempting to boot, no graphics output after changing to the kernel. Graphics output before that is fine.<br />
<br />
=== Additional notes ===<br />
<br />
More info at [https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=146990 archlinux forums] and [http://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/45312/how-can-i-tell-if-i-have-a-bug-with-my-kernel-or-with-my-bios-firmware stack overflow]. Similar problems with [http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.linux.redhat.fedora.devel/167170 a different motherboard]. Seems to be a buggy uefi implementation by intel.<br />
<br />
mihanson on '''2013-07-21''': tried with latest BIOS, version 0066, and the results are the same as the above. No go in UEFI mode on the Intel DZ77GA-70K.<br />
----<br />
<br />
== Asus M5A99X EVO ==<br />
<br />
# System OEM/Vendor<br />
#* Asus M5A99X EVO<br />
# Processor with the model number<br />
#* AMD FX(tm)-8150 Eight-Core Processor<br />
# Chipset info<br />
#* AMD 990X/SB950<br />
# BIOS/UEFI vendor<br />
Vendor: American Megatrends Inc.<br />
Version: 0901<br />
Release Date: 12/02/2011<br />
# Were you able to create a working entry in UEFI Boot menu using efibootmgr?<br />
#* Yes<br />
# If you were able to launch the UEFI Shell in ways other than using {{ic|(USB)/efi/boot/bootx64.efi}} <br />
#* Yes, option in the Exit menu of the UEFI BIOS "Launch UEFI from system partition"<br />
# Output of UEFI Shell "ver" command.<br />
#* To be updated<br />
# Filesystem of UEFI System Partition? FAT32 or FAT16? <br />
#* FAT32<br />
# Any graphics/video card issues that occur in UEFI boot alone and not in BIOS boot? Like Nvidia closed-source driver's lack of Kernel Mode Setting etc.<br />
#* No<br />
<br />
----<br />
<br />
== HP EliteBook 840 G1 ==<br />
<br />
See [[HP EliteBook 840 G1]] for details.<br />
<br />
== Lenovo Thinkpad Edge E430 3254-DAQ ==<br />
<br />
The below information was added by user [[User:The.ridikulus.rat]] .<br />
<br />
=== System Info ===<br />
<br />
# [[Lenovo_ThinkPad_Edge_E430|Lenovo Thinkpad Edge E430]] 3254-DAQ (India)<br />
# Intel Core i5 3210M 2.50 GHz (3rd Gen aka Ivy Bridge), 8 GB RAM<br />
# Intel HM77 Express Chipset<br />
# UEFI Firmware Vendor : Phoenix SecureCore Tiano<br />
# UEFI/BIOS Version : 2.55<br />
# Lenovo UEFI/BIOS Build Date : 27-FEB-2014<br />
# External Ports: 3 USB 3.0, 1 USB 2.0, 1 VGA, 1 HDMI, 1 RJ45 Ethernet/LAN port (Realtek), 1 ExpressCard 34 port, 1 3.5mm Headphones jack<br />
# 1 Tray-Load CD/DVD Writer <br />
# Switchable Graphics : Intel HD Graphics 4000 and Nvidia GeForce 610M (1GB Dedicated RAM)<br />
# WiFi card : Intel Centrino Wireless-N 2230 (B/G/N + Bluetooth 4.0), no 802.11a and 802.11ac support<br />
<br />
=== Observations ===<br />
<br />
# UEFI Secure Boot support is present in firmware, but I have currently disabled it. System came pre-installed with Windows 7 Pro x64 in BIOS-MBR mode, with BIOS version 1.14 (which did not include UEFI Secure Boot).<br />
# Using a 1 GiB FAT32 UEFISYS partition (/dev/sda1) mounted at /boot/efi (i.e. separate from /boot). Kernel and initramfs files synced during update using [[UEFI Bootloaders#Sync EFISTUB Kernel in UEFISYS partition using Systemd]]{{Broken section link}}.<br />
# No issues with efibootmgr<br />
# Currently using gummiboot (textonly mode) as main boot manager. No need for {{ic|/EFI/Microsoft/Boot/bootmgfw.efi}} hack. Dual-booting Windows 8.1 Pro x64 UEFI-GPT. Windows boot files are stored in same EFISYS partition.<br />
# Both UEFI Shell v2 and v1 work. No option in the firmware setup/menu to directly launch the shell. <br />
# Currently using only intel and nouveau drivers. Haven't yet tried nvidia binary drivers or nvidia optimus graphics switching support. Kernel Mode Setting enabled.<br />
# grub-bios works if the firmware is changed to boot "Legacy only" without any boot/active flag in 0xEE Protective MBR partition entry.<br />
# Using only PARTUUID in /etc/fstab and in bootloader config files.<br />
<br />
=== Important Info ===<br />
<br />
I didn't use Archiso or Archboot to install the system. I transferred the Arch installation from my old Sony Vaio laptop to my new Thinkpad E430 using an external USB HDD and rsync from within SystemRescueCD, after manually creating the partitions using GParted, and then manually setup fstab and rEFInd. After that I rebooted into Arch and installed grub-efi-x86_64 and grub-bios.<br />
<br />
=====From WonderWoofy=====<br />
<br />
On an E430-3254(CTO) I had the same issues as the.ridikulus.rat with efibootmgr and truncated kerl command line parameters. This usually lead to the inability of the kernel to find the initramfs. What I ended up doing is putting the kernel and intramfs in the root of the ESP, and from there the efibootmgr entries worked nicely. This does lead to an ESP that is not organized in the recommended way though.<br />
<br />
Also, I did actually install via Archboot, and all worked fine. I have actually installed twice on this machine, once to a Momentus XT and once to a Samsung 830. The first time I used a CD, and therefore selected the "UEFI First" preference in the bios. This supposedly will try UEFI (\EFI\boot\bootx64.efi) first, and if that fails it will look to the MBR. Unfortunately, it did not honor this setting for the optical drive, and I had to turn off legacy bios mode entirely to get it to boot in UEFI from the CD. Interestingly, this "UEFI First" setting works just fine for interal drives. USB flash drives are a whole different story though, and more information can be found [[Unified_Extensible_Firmware_Interface#Create_UEFI_bootable_USB_from_ISO|here]].<br />
----<br />
<br />
== System76 Galago UltraPro / TUXEDO Book BU1402 ==<br />
<br />
=== System Info ===<br />
<br />
* System76 Galago UltraPro / TUXEDO Book BU1402 (Clevo W740SU)<br />
* intel core i7 4750HQ 2.0GHz<br />
* intel HM87 Chipset<br />
* Original firmware version unknown, but from American Megatrends Inc.<br />
* Boot in UEFI mode only possible by starting an UEFI shell via the BIOS setup ({{ic|$esp/shellx64.efi}})<br />
* UEFI menu entries could be created by using efibootmgr, but without them being shown in the bootup menu<br />
* ESP filesystem: FAT32<br />
* '''Note:''' UEFI boot is not officially supported by System76 or TUXEDO Computers. Currently TUXEDO Computers doesn't provide any BIOS updates. Create a backup if you want to be able to revert to original firmware.<br />
<br />
=== Fix ===<br />
<br />
* Download the Clevo W740SU firmware from [http://repo.palkeo.com/clevo-mirror/W740SU/].<br />
* Flash it using any FreeDOS live medium<br />
* The new firmware is from American Megatrends Inc. V.4.6.5 08/13/2013<br />
* The new firmware doesn't support mixed BIOS and UEFI support, so you have to manually switch if you want to boot from a medium that doesn't support UEFI.<br />
----<br />
<br />
== Intel Atom System-on-Chip ==<br />
<br />
Intel Atom System-on-Chip (SoC) is the Intel's answer to ARM SoC, primarily targeting Smartphones and Tablets (not regular Desktop and Notebook PCs).<br />
<br />
{{Note|This section was written based on information available online, not based on experience by an actual user of any Intel Atom SoC system.}}<br />
<br />
{{Note|Intel Atom SoC systems that ship with Windows 8/8.1 32-bit provide 32-bit UEFI-only firmware with no BIOS compatibility option (no CSM). In UEFI terms these systems are called Class 3 systems (this term is not specific to 32-bit), ie. UEFI-only with no BIOS CSM. These Atom SoC systems are therefore called as 32-bit UEFI Class 3 systems, and these can be booted only using a 32-bit UEFI bootable USB, which is not provided by default in [[Archiso]] (official install iso) and [[Archboot]]. These systems also come with UEFI Secure Boot enabled by default, but the firmware setup provides option(s) to disable Secure Boot as mandated by Microsoft for x86 systems.}}<br />
<br />
'''Related Links:'''<br />
* [[Wikipedia:Atom (system on chip)]]<br />
<br />
=== MinnowBoard ===<br />
<br />
The MinnowBoard is an Intel Atom SoC based board similar to Raspberry Pi or BeagleBoard. It ships with [http://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/tianocore/index.php?title=Welcome Tianocore UDK] based 32-bit UEFI-only firmware which does not contain CSM support (no Legacy BIOS boot). The embedded Atom processor is supports only 32-bit, hence it is not possible to replace the 32-bit UEFI in the board with 64-bit (x86_64) UEFI. See below links for more info.<br />
<br />
'''Related Links:'''<br />
* http://www.minnowboard.org/<br />
* http://www.elinux.org/MinnowBoard<br />
* http://uefidk.intel.com/content/minnowboard-uefi-firmware<br />
<br />
=== Intel Atom SoC Clover Trail ===<br />
<br />
Intel Atom SoC Clover Trail processors are 32-bit only, hence they contain only 32-bit UEFI firmware. Officially Intel has stated that Linux will not be supported in Clover Trail tablets. Apart from this, Intel has not released the Clover Trail power-management and (PowerVR based) graphics code for Linux. Hence these systems may not work reliably with Linux.<br />
<br />
'''Related Links:'''<br />
* http://download.lenovo.com/luc/dml/Tablet2_Imaging_considerations.pdf<br />
* http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2012/09/intel-declares-clover-trail-atom-processor-a-no-linux-zone/<br />
<br />
=== Intel Atom SoC Bay Trail ===<br />
<br />
Intel Atom SoC Bay Trail processors actually support 64-bit, but these tablets ship with only Windows 8/8.1 32-bit (not 64-bit) because of a feature called '''Connected Standby''' (also called '''InstantGo''') which is mandated by Microsoft to be enabled, but currently supported only by Windows 8/8.1 32-bit version (not 64-bit, as of October 2013). '''Connected Standby''' requirements (by Microsoft) include tablets to support only UEFI boot (hence no BIOS CSM) and UEFI bitness to match the OS bitness (hence 32-bit UEFI for sake of Win 8/8.1 32-bit). With only 32-bit UEFI and lack of BIOS compatibility, even Windows XP/Vista/7 32-bit (no UEFI support) and 64-bit (cannot boot in 32-bit UEFI) cannot be installed in these systems. These systems are truly locked to Windows 8/8.1 32-bit (UEFI mode). <br />
<br />
In these systems it should (theoretically) be possible to install 64-bit Linux provided the kernel is instructed to not access EFI runtime code using the '''noefi''' kernel parameter, due to the kernel/UEFI bitness mismatch. Unlike Clover Trail, Intel has stated that Bay Trail will support Android (which is based on Linux), and its graphics is based on Intel HD graphics (not PowerVR). Therefore, Bay Trail systems may work better with Linux compared to Clover Trail.<br />
<br />
'''Related Links:'''<br />
* [[Wikipedia:Connected Standby]]<br />
* http://www.pcworld.com/article/2048599/windows-81-tablets-with-64bit-atom-chips-not-coming-until-q1.html<br />
* [http://www.anandtech.com/show/8038/windows-81-x64-connected-standby-support AnandTech: Windows 8.1 x64 Connected Standby Support]</div>Margalihttps://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Talk:Data-at-rest_encryption&diff=495016Talk:Data-at-rest encryption2017-11-04T05:03:06Z<p>Margali: /* Was Serpent judged most secure? */ new section</p>
<hr />
<div>==Unicode graphs/patterns==<br />
''[Original title was Ascii graphs/patterns]''<br />
<br />
Hi,<br />
A small issue unrelated topic : how are ascii graphs/patterns made?<br />
:One method I know is: http://www.asciiflow.com/#Draw<br />
:--[[User:Indigo|Indigo]] ([[User talk:Indigo|talk]]) 20:45, 3 September 2013 (UTC)<br />
::Note that those graphs are not made with simple ASCII characters, but Unicode (I've fixed the title of the discussion).<br />
::Anyway, this is a very interesting question indeed, I too would like to know if there are any editors that can make it easy to draw such diagrams.<br />
::This would also solve [[Talk:Installing Arch Linux with EVMS#Image replacement contest]].<br />
::Finally, an editor like that should be mentioned in [[Help:Style#Non-pertinent content]].<br />
::-- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 05:47, 4 September 2013 (UTC)<br />
:I created these diagrams manually using [[Wikipedia:Kate_%28text_editor%29|Kate]], which is a normal text editor ''(but it has an advanced feature called "Block Selection Mode" that helps a lot with this kind of stuff)''. I also kept a window of [[Wikipedia:gucharmap|gucharmap]] open on one side of the screen, which allowed me to easily find and pick suitable Unicode characters.<br />
:--[[User:Sas|Sas]] ([[User talk:Sas|talk]]) 19:21, 19 November 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Move out of User page==<br />
This page is quite good IMO. So it can be moved to a normal page. It can receive updates there and other pepole can contribute. -- [[User:Fengchao|Fengchao]] ([[User talk:Fengchao|talk]]) 06:20, 11 June 2012 (UTC)<br />
:+1 -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 09:18, 12 June 2012 (UTC)<br />
: No respons from author. This will block [System_Encryption_with_LUKS] restructure so I do the job to move on.-- [[User:Fengchao|Fengchao]] ([[User talk:Fengchao|talk]]) 02:22, 15 June 2012 (UTC)<br />
:: Hi, and sorry for abandoning this article half-way through and then forgetting about it.<br />
:: As for writing the general introduction/explanation text (part of which consists of merging the corresponding sections from the [[System_Encryption_with_LUKS]] article into this one), I had already started working on that locally back when I created this article, but I have that file on a different computer than I am on now. If you give me until tomorrow (Monday) evening (European time), I'll bring what I have into a readable state and upload it to this page, and then everybody can help modifying/extending it.<br />
:: The reason why I created the article as a user page and didn't move it into the main namespace right away, is that I originally planned to first discuss some feature requests with the wiki maintainers which would make the page more maintainable (without sacrificing user-friendliness). Namely, support for automatically numbered footnotes, and moving the comparison table formatting into a wiki-wide "comparison-table" CSS class (or maybe, separate "comparison-table-vertical" and "comparison-table-horizontal" classes). Right now, the comparison table's wiki markup is so messy and difficult to work with that I would feel guilty asking other people to help add info to it. --[[User:Sas|Sas]] ([[User talk:Sas|talk]]) 17:35, 17 June 2012 (UTC)<br />
::: I added the main text sections now. It would be great if a native speaker with good language skills could do some copyediting for the individual subsections to formulate them more concisely and make them nicer to read. --[[User:Sas|Sas]] ([[User talk:Sas|talk]]) 20:42, 18 June 2012 (UTC)<br />
::::Hi Sas, thank you for getting back working on this article!!<br />
::::About the numbered footnotes, that would require the installation of an extension (involving web developers) and if we can keep it simpler instead it'd be better, since this would be the only article using that feature.<br />
::::About the comparison-table class, can you report an existing example (in another wiki I guess) of what you mean exactly?<br />
::::-- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 20:57, 19 June 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Proposed renaming of this article to "System Encryption" or "Encryption" ==<br />
<br />
This was proposed by Kynikos in the form of a template added to this article, and also discussed [[Talk:System_Encryption_with_LUKS#Moving_the_.22why_should_I_use_encryption.22_section_to_a_separate_article|here]].<br />
<br />
I disagree with the proposal, and still believe that "Disk Encryption" is the right name for this article. Let me try to explain why.<br />
<br />
"Encryption" is a huge topic, encompassing a ''much'' bigger scope than this article could sensibly cover in the level of detail set out by the content I already added here, and the content that is to be merged here from [[System_Encryption_with_LUKS]].<br />
There is (among others)...<br />
* <span style="color:#00f">manual encryption of '''pieces of data''' (no matter where it comes from / is stored / is going to)</span><br />
** ''<span style="color:#777">GnuPG, ...</span>''<br />
* <span style="color:#00f">cryptographically protecting a '''communication channel'''</span><br />
** ''<span style="color:#777">HTTPS, SSH, ...</span>''<br />
* <span style="color:#00f">cryptographically protecting a '''logical part of a storage disk''' (real or virtual)</span><br />
** ''<span style="color:#777">Loop-AES, dm-crypt+LUKS, Truecrypt, eCryptfs, EncFs, ...</span>''<br />
<br />
I believe that the article should exclusively deal with the latter topic.<br />
Trust me, there's enough valuable information on this to fill a whole article (just look at how big the comparison table alone grew already). It would only add confusion and result in TL;DR to mix other encryption-related topics into the same article.<br />
<br />
I.e., the article should exclusively be about techniques which will cause all data written to a logical part of a disk to be automatically encrypted, and data read from it to be automatically decrypted.<br />
<br />
All of the following are examples of logical parts of (real or virtual) storage disks:<br />
* a '''whole disk'''<br />
* a '''partition''' (or anything else represented as a block device)<br />
* a '''folder'''<br />
So I don't see how the term "Disk Encryption" should be inclusive of block device encryption, but not of filesystem-level encryption, as Kynikos suggested in the renaming-proposal.<br />
The level at which the protected logical part of the disc is defined, is an just implementation detail - I don't see a conceptual difference there.<br />
<br />
So that's why I believe "Disk Encryption" is a more sensible title than "Encryption".<br />
<br />
Regarding "System Encryption", I believe ''that'' would actually not be inclusive enough of everything encompassed by the encryption methods described here.<br />
<br />
In my mind, '''system encryption''' is a potential ''application'' of disk encryption - it's about securing the "system" itself (as in, an Arch Linux installation) from unauthorized access to its system and user data while the system is not running.<br />
<br />
But disk encryption can also be used for simple '''data encryption''', e.g. protecting a partition or folder in which confidential data files are to be stored, and letting the user unlock/lock the encrypted data container on demand or on login/logout. This has nothing to do with the "system" and whether it is running.<br />
(This is especially the case for the filesystem-based disk encryption methods.)<br />
<br />
And of course there are many possible combinations and shades of grey in between.<br />
<br />
"Disk encryption", to my ears at least, captures all of that quite nicely.<br />
<br />
--[[User:Sas|Sas]] ([[User talk:Sas|talk]]) 18:37, 17 June 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Wow, you provided such an exhaustive argumentation in support of the current title that I don't think anyone will try to reply (including me) :) Let's stick with [[Disk Encryption]] then! It's worth to be noted that Wikipedia itself is a bit ambiguous in finding a consistent naming for this topic, see for example the intro of [[wikipedia:Filesystem-level encryption]] (''"Filesystem-level encryption, often called file or folder encryption, is a form of disk encryption [...]"'') versus [[wikipedia:Disk encryption#Disk encryption vs. filesystem-level encryption]]. -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 21:10, 19 June 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Was Serpent judged most secure? ==<br />
<br />
According to the fact sheet available from the relevant link (https://web.archive.org/web/20020211162045/http://csrc.nist.gov:80/encryption/aes/round2/aesfact.html), Serpent was not the finalist selected for the relevant standard. According to that fact sheet, the judgement was not that the other finalists (including Serpent) were insecure, but claiming it was judged the most secure seems unmotivated. Have I missed something? What's the source for this? The linked papers are by the researchers who proposed Serpent, aren't they? That's not the judgement of impartial evaluators. --[[User:Margali|cfr]] ([[User talk:Margali|talk]]) 05:03, 4 November 2017 (UTC)</div>Margalihttps://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Talk:Trusted_Platform_Module&diff=494958Talk:Trusted Platform Module2017-11-03T16:09:17Z<p>Margali: Ordering</p>
<hr />
<div>There should be some indication of where to find tcsd prior to listing commands which invoke it. Generally, moving onto later steps without resolving problems implementing earlier ones is not a good strategy for following wiki instructions, yet this page currently requires this. [I would edit, but the page clearly needs much more significant editing to update it and I'm not in a position to do that.] --[[User:Margali|cfr]] ([[User talk:Margali|talk]]) 16:09, 3 November 2017 (UTC)</div>Margalihttps://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Talk:Pass&diff=494336Talk:Pass2017-10-29T16:28:49Z<p>Margali: /* Mention need to trust key? */ new section</p>
<hr />
<div>== Using pass with gpg-agent ==<br />
<br />
I first set up gpg-agent in my .xinitrc file, and was unable to use it with pass. Pass appears to require the $GPG_AGENT_INFO variable to be set in order to utilize the functionality, which may make the /etc/profile.d/gpg-agent.sh solution in [[GnuPG#gpg-agent]] more favorable. [[User:Ctag|Ctag]] ([[User talk:Ctag|talk]]) 21:59, 26 July 2014 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Mention need to trust key? ==<br />
<br />
I found that, although I could use my gpg key to encrypt files locally as usual, pass would not accept my key for encryption purposes until I used gpg --edit-key <ID> to trust my key. Would it be worth mentioning this? I've been using gpg to encrypt files for years with no problems, so I couldn't understand why pass caused gpg to refuse to do what seemed to be essentially the same thing. --[[User:Margali|cfr]] ([[User talk:Margali|talk]]) 16:28, 29 October 2017 (UTC)</div>Margalihttps://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Talk:TrueCrypt&diff=494275Talk:TrueCrypt2017-10-29T03:48:42Z<p>Margali: /* Status? */ new section</p>
<hr />
<div>==Automatic mount home on login==<br />
You need to create an encrypted physical volume with the same password that your login. Then install pam_mount from AUR and change the following lines.<br />
/etc/security/pam_mount.conf.xml<br />
<cryptmount>bash -c "grep -q %(MNTPT) /etc/mtab || truecrypt --text --protect-hidden=no --keyfiles=&#39;&#39; %(VOLUME) %(MNTPT)"</cryptmount><br />
<cryptumount>truecrypt -d</cryptumount><br />
<volume fstype="crypt" path="/dev/sdXX" mountpoint="/home" /><br />
/etc/pam.d/{login,gdm,kdm,...}<br />
auth optional pam_mount.so<br />
session optional pam_mount.so<br />
<br />
'''Note:''' The volume label can be especified per home (~/.pam_mount.conf.xml)<br />
<br />
--[[User:Nak|Nak]] 09:03, 26 December 2010 (EST)<br />
<br />
==Outdated==<br />
Some of the information on this page is outdated since truecrypt 5.1, for example the steps to use ext3 as filesystem on the encrypted volume. I'd update it but am not sure if we should keep the present information as reference or replace it with the updated one. --[[User:Chimeric|chi]] 19:29, 2 May 2008 (EDT)<br />
<br />
==bashrc==<br />
Is there an error in ''Method 1 (Add a truecrypt group)''? It says that some lines should be added to ''/etc/bash/bashrc''. In my opinion it should say that these lines have to be added to each user's ''.bashrc''. --[[User:Sandstorm|Sandstorm]] 13:45, 1 June 2008 (EDT)<br />
: That file doesn't exist in my system, but I guess adding them to /etc/bash.bashrc should work, if people use bash. However, wouldn't it be most general if you put it in /etc/profile? --[[User:Unhammer|Unhammer]] 14:13, 12 March 2010 (EST)<br />
<br />
==GUI==<br />
What are the GUI options? (I found [http://www.kde-apps.org/content/show.php/TCmount?content=54314&PHPSESSID=e5af TCMount], but it's discontinued since it had security problems.)<br />
<br />
:: Why the fuck does it separate into a gui and a cli version like normal people, where did the man page go? You cant even do {{ic|truecrypt -l |grep someshit}} because it pops up a gui. Is this cruel and arbitrary and should it affect my trust in the software? It boggles the mind.[[User:Jasper1984|Jasper1984]] ([[User talk:Jasper1984|talk]]) 18:55, 21 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Use truecrypt -t -l for cli version.<br />
<br />
== tcplay ==<br />
<br />
Anyone else is trying it? Is that ok in this page?<br />
<br />
== Proper wipe? ==<br />
I created a truecrypted directory, then incrypted it with {{ic|truecrypt -d}}. I look at the files -'''still there?!''' Therefore i will add a comment telling people to check it. And that {{ic|rm}} doesn't make them unrecoverable.(after removing them remounting with truecrypt did return the files, so it does look like it worked) <br />
<br />
This will make the page ''look'' worse. [[User:Jasper1984|Jasper1984]] ([[User talk:Jasper1984|talk]]) 19:05, 21 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Status? ==<br />
<br />
The warning is confusing. Was development discontinued, but then the project got adopted? Or was it adopted some time in the past and later the adopters discontinued development? --[[User:Margali|cfr]] ([[User talk:Margali|talk]]) 03:48, 29 October 2017 (UTC)</div>Margalihttps://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Talk:HiDPI&diff=494121Talk:HiDPI2017-10-26T20:30:56Z<p>Margali: /* KDE 5 - PLASMA */ best way to adjust env variables?</p>
<hr />
<div>== Java ==<br />
<br />
Is there already a workaround for java-based apps? They look really ugly on hidpi :/ {{Unsigned|16:28, 25 June 2014|Avarty}}<br />
: GNOME and Cinnamon seem to correctly scale java-based apps. Running i3 as a [https://github.com/TheMarex/i3-gnome Gnome session] also works for me. [[User:Snackattack|Snackattack]] ([[User talk:Snackattack|talk]]) 08:28, 25 December 2016 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Instant messengers ==<br />
<br />
I think it would be worthwhile to change section 5 from 'Skype' to 'Instant Messengers / Chat' and add others as well. Telegram Messenger supports HiDPI perfectly, it has an option for 200% scaling in the settings. It is also supported on almost every major platform. {{Unsigned|05:26, 8 January 2015|Veazer}}<br />
<br />
== Console ==<br />
<br />
Could you potentially temporarily change the console frame buffer resolution (i.e. during installation?) {{Unsigned|18:50, 9 October 2015|Georgewhite5}}<br />
<br />
I found with the i915 driver I needed to add i915 to the MODULES section of /etc/mkinitcpio.conf for me to be able to set a large font (anything bigger than 16) for the vconsoles. systemd-vconsole-setup.service failed to start otherwise with with the following error: "/usr/bin/setfont failed with error code 71" [[User:Raoulmillais|Raoulmillais]] ([[User talk:Raoulmillais|talk]]) 18:29, 6 December 2015 (UTC)<br />
<br />
The archlinux iso doesn't come with lot of fonts. the best I got is sun12x22. This will make your life easy.<br />
Try running following command on prompt<br />
setfont sun12x22<br />
{{unsigned|16:24, 17 December 2015|Mohit310}}<br />
<br />
As of July 2016, the latarcyrheb-sub32 is also included after a fresh Arch Linux install. Unlike sun12x22 it looks much more similar to cp437 but it has just been scaled up. Its much larger size makes the console much more easier to read on a HiDPI screen.<br />
{{unsigned|14:38, 22 July 2016|Makhlaghi}}<br />
<br />
== KDE 5 - PLASMA ==<br />
I tried font settings in KDE Plasma but it doesn't change the DPI. Is there any other way to work around this.<br />
<br />
{{unsigned|16:26, 17 December 2015|Mohit310}}<br />
<br />
Is adding a file under /usr/share really the best place to do this? Would it be better to do it in /etc, for example? <br />
<br />
There is no option to sign this edit. The usual buttons used to do this are missing altogether.<br />
<br />
== Gnome Instructions are incomplete ==<br />
<br />
When you use GNOME by default on a HiDPI system, it autodetects the settings to use. In fact, it doesn't even set the environment variable that this article references. In reality, it stays at zero and it's autodetected. But another setting that is part of a gsettings propertybag is also changed.<br />
<br />
This is confirmed by looking at the source code for gnome-tweak-tool and seeing that it also changes XSettingsOverrides: https://github.com/GNOME/gnome-tweak-tool/blob/master/gtweak/tweaks/tweak_group_windows.py#L64<br />
<br />
I think it's worth mentioning that this value probably doesn't need to be adjusted. GNOME has autodetected it for a few releases now. Certainly with 3.20 if the mixed-hidpi work lands.<br />
<br />
{{unsigned|02:35, 27 December 2015|Colemickens}}<br />
<br />
== Gnome Scaling for Different Devices ==<br />
<br />
Recent changes asked the question:<br />
<br />
The scaling factor is obviously different for every device. What is the advantage of using xrandr over gsettings (i.e. gsettings set org.gnome.desktop.interface scaling-factor 1.5), let alone combining them?<br />
<br />
Answer: <br />
<br />
gsettings set org.gnome.desktop.interface scaling-factor 1.5<br />
<br />
...generates an error. 1.5 is not allowed. The "period" is an illegal charater. You can only set 1 (100%), 2 (200%), 3 (300%), etc. As mentioned in the recent edit, this is not enough resolution for several devices which require 1.5, 2.5, 2.25 1.75 and so on. <br />
<br />
Therefore, a tip/trick/hack/note was added that describes using the combination of <code>xrandr</code> and gsettings to achieve a scale of 1.5 (150%) without fonts becoming 'fuzzy'.<br />
<br />
The real question should be: "Then why not use xrandr to change the scale the other way, say 1920 / 1.5?" <br />
<br />
Answer: Then you'll have fuzzy fonts and lines.<br />
<br />
Hopefully this answers the factual accuracy request.<br />
<br />
[[User:Eduncan911|Eduncan911]] ([[User talk:Eduncan911|talk]]) 22:41, 7 January 2016 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:One also has the option to scale up to 2 with scaling-factor and scale it back down with the text-scaling-factor. It's easier and looks better in my experiences. And yes, the text-scaling-factor affects the physical size of other UI elements besides just text. [[User:Colemickens|Colemickens]] ([[User talk:Colemickens|talk]]) 22:47, 7 January 2016 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Excellent idea! How about adding it as an alternative method? Though, in my opinion, that takes up too much space. To each his own i suppose! Adding it as an alternative to mine allows customization. <br />
:EDIT: I just tried this and the title bars are all wacky, along with the topbar. I wouldn't recommend it at all.<br />
:Now, I must state that I just tested this on a fresh new install on a system with no other changes to DPI or scale (no GTK, no scaling tricks, nothing). As a matter of fact, i even booted off of an Arch Live CD (made by Antergos) and tested it again to make sure it wasn't my bare-metal + Gnome install I just finished. If you are stating that it looks good on your system, then perhaps you've done other scaling that resolves this issues. Which, IMO again, is overkill if you can solve everything with 1 or 2 combinations. [[User:Eduncan911|Eduncan911]] ([[User talk:Eduncan911|talk]]) 23:19, 7 January 2016 (UTC)<br />
<br />
: Probably these "fuzzy" fonts were something I have missed when I did my edit today - please feel free to edit the way you think is appropriate. BTW how could I look at these fuzzy fonts? I checked Microsoft Word Online - looks good with "scale" approach, identical to "scale-from". [[User:F3flight|F3flight]] ([[User talk:F3flight|talk]]) 22:54, 3 February 2016 (UTC)<br />
<br />
: Actually please re-check my last edit because it looks like it is not the same that has been proposed here - I do not do text-scale-factor nor do I do scale down by lowering the current res, like "1920/1.5". I feel like my approach keeps everything crisp while providing easier granularity then trying different pre-calculated values. Please re-check and let me know. [[User:F3flight|F3flight]] ([[User talk:F3flight|talk]]) 23:01, 3 February 2016 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Rephrase X Resources ==<br />
The wording is not so obvious in the section, [[HiDPI#X_Resources]] as [[User:Lahwaacz|Lahwaacz]] suggested here [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=HiDPI&type=revision&diff=440039&oldid=440025]. Rather than desktop environments which DO NOT use `~/.Xresources` file, I recommend list few environments or window managers which DO use X resources. In a page with dedicated sections for all kinds of applications, it is a shame not to mention a window manager. Speaking from personal experience on trying to configure i3 for a HiDPI screen. [[User:Jadelord|Jadelord]] ([[User talk:Jadelord|talk]]) 22:58, 6 July 2016 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Since nothing is listed on the opposite side, it means basically "everything else". Adding one example is not going to make it any more obvious for people that '''don't''' use i3 and as I pointed out in the edit summary, we can't list every window manager here. -- [[User:Lahwaacz|Lahwaacz]] ([[User talk:Lahwaacz|talk]]) 07:06, 7 July 2016 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== GNOME ignores X settings ==<br />
<br />
:''[Moved from [[User talk:Kynikos#Hidpi]] — [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 11:54, 20 April 2017 (UTC)]''<br />
<br />
The blog entry I mentioned is still valid and works perfectly.<br />
Unfortunately compiling / make install does not work for me under Ubuntu (sorry no Arch user ;-) ) but even without Patching, so its a general compile problem.<br />
<br />
The alternative I mentioned seems not to work as good as patching the scaling factor, even if its proposed to do nearly the same.<br />
Actually I have not enough time to dig into source.<br />
<br />
Actually Gnome scaling, the patch or Gnome Settings Daemon itself does nothing then manipulate XServer DPI Setting.<br />
In particular gnome also prevents self-change XServer dpi settings.<br />
<br />
So it's a bit running round in the circle when discussing where to put it.<br />
Feel free to put it where you think it makes the most sense.<br />
<br />
{{Unsigned|20 April 2017|Exloermond}}<br />
<br />
:Thanks for the explanation, I've moved your post here and linked it from the Accuracy flag so that it can be useful to other users, since I neither use GNOME nor a HiDPI monitor. Also, I've moved the content that you added under [[HiDPI#GNOME]], where I think it will be more visible to interested users. — [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 12:05, 20 April 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Java - Is sun.java2d.uiScale really effective? ==<br />
<br />
Is sun.java2d.uiScale really effective? I've tested it with VisualVM (which is based on AWT) to no avail. [[User:Hexchain|Hexchain]] ([[User talk:Hexchain|talk]]) 16:58, 14 September 2017 (UTC)</div>Margalihttps://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Talk:List_of_applications&diff=493786Talk:List of applications2017-10-21T23:59:50Z<p>Margali: /* TeX is general purpose and markup */ new section</p>
<hr />
<div>== Categorization ==<br />
=== Classification troubles ===<br />
Can "CD/DVD Burning Tools" be considered part of "Multimedia"?<br />
Should "Screen Capture" section be part of "Utilities" or "Multimedia"? --[[User:AlexanderR|AlexanderR]] 21:10, 16 January 2012 (EST)<br />
<br />
:Eh I'm afraid we'll just have to establish a convention: I'd say Burning tools in Multimedia and Screen Capture in Utilities? Let's wait for more opinions. -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] 07:53, 17 January 2012 (EST)<br />
<br />
::As I see, '''CD/DVD Burning Tools''' are already a part of '''Multimedia'''. '''Screen Capture''', I think, must be in '''Utilities'''.<br />
::And there's another question from russian users. '''OCR software''' isn't a reader or viewer, so it must be before or after '''1.9 Note taking organizers''' with corresponding number '''1.9''' or '''1.10'''<br />
::UPD. Also, there's a good idea to add in this section some (or all) progs from [[Optical Character Recognition]] -- [[User:Kycok|Kycok]] ([[User talk:Kycok|talk]]) 05:32, 11 April 2014 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::Um... "Utilities" is practically a default category for applications that don't fit anywhere else: since "Screen capture" is kind of related to "Multimedia", it would probably be better to leave it there (thus changing the opinion I expressed above, I think I'm allowed, after more than 2 years :P ).<br />
:::I'm quite neutral about moving "OCR software" in the tree: it is related to "Scans", but maybe not so closely. I'm also neutral about merging [[Optical Character Recognition]] there: actually that article doesn't contain anything except for a short list of applications, so it could indeed be merged.<br />
:::Anyone with a stronger position on the topic? -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 14:12, 11 April 2014 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::So, I've made corresponding changes in '''Documents''' section. Also I've merged '''Pdf''' and '''DjVu''', because many progs in '''Pdf''' works with DjVu. I've deleted tool '''fbdjvu''', because, as I see, it's merged with '''fbpdf'''.<br />
::::Let's talk if there's another opinions about my changes -- [[User:Kycok|Kycok]] ([[User talk:Kycok|talk]]) 09:59, 14 April 2014 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::Well done, except you forgot to redirect [[Optical Character Recognition]], [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Optical_Character_Recognition&diff=310498&oldid=273112 fixed] now :) -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 12:53, 15 April 2014 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
I have submitted a AUR package for {{AUR|sendanywhere}}, a cross-platform p2p file sharing utility (similar to Pushbullet, but with standalone software client). I am not sure under which section I should include it. It is definitely not FTP based or bittorrent based. Should it go under '''Downloaders''' or '''Communications'''; also, shall I start a new subsection, maybe called '''p2p file sharing/pushing'''? [[User:Jadelord|Jadelord]] ([[User talk:Jadelord|talk]]) 11:17, 6 January 2016 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I've just created [[List_of_applications/Internet#Other_P2P_networks]], I think that's the best place for the moment. — [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 03:11, 7 January 2016 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Split up completely? ===<br />
Just wondering if it would be better to completely split the article up into separate articles, rather than transcluding everything back in as templates. Perhaps just include links and a brief summary of each category in the top-level page, maybe something along the lines of:<br />
<br />
{{META Box | | This page has various categories of programs and points to lists of programs in those categories. It is a useful starting point for finding a program for a specific application. [Introduce console versus graphical.]<br />
<br />
'''[[Common Applications/Internet | Internet]]''' including network configuration, and clients or browsers for web sites, FTP, file sharing, chat and email messaging, web feeds, and microblogging<br />
<br />
'''[[Common Applications/Multimedia | Multimedia]]''' including viewers, players and editors for raster, vector, 3D, CAD, audio and video, GUI capture, systems for accessing audio devices, audio CD rippers, and e-book programs.<br />
<br />
'''[[Common Applications/Utilities | Utilities]]''', which covers package management, file managers including space usage, compression and merge tools, optical disc burning, clipboards, GUI taskbars.<br />
<br />
'''[[Common Applications/Documents | Documents]]''': readers for printable files like PDFs, office suites, word processors, spreadsheets, text search, OCR<br />
<br />
'''[[Common Applications/Security | Security]]''': firewalls; file, network and log monitoring, scanning and analysis; backup<br />
<br />
'''[[Common Applications/Games | Games]]''': native and emulators<br />
<br />
'''[[Common Applications/Science | Science]]''': calculators, visualisation, design, programming environments and other tools for maths, chemistry, biology, astronomy, electronics and physics<br />
<br />
'''[[Common Applications/Other | Other]]''': note taking and scheduling; translation; desktop environments and window managers; terminals; OS monitors; text editors<br />
<br />
'''See also''' [other general lists of programs]}}<br />
<br />
Smaller individual pages would be nicer, because often I’m only interested in programs for a specific application, such as (in the past) [[Common Applications/Science#Electronics | Science#Electronics]], and [[Common Applications/Multimedia#GUI players | Multimedia#GUI players]] (audio). Even using the TOC, I think currently it’s too easy to get lost or overwhelmed. [[User:Vadmium|Vadmium]] 00:18, 26 January 2012 (EST).<br />
<br />
:I think the main problem here is that if I'm looking for a particular subcategory I have to guess under which main category it can be, while currently, with the comprehensive ToC, that task is easier. Possible compromise: maintain a "manual" Table of Contents in the top-level page, with links to the various subpages/subsections. Let's hear more opinions. -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] 07:53, 26 January 2012 (EST)<br />
<br />
==See also visibility==<br />
Does somebody have any idea on how to improve the visibility of the See also section? -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] 07:13, 23 January 2012 (EST)<br />
:Its probably not in good style, but could we add an [[Writing Article Overviews| article overview]], and have an article summary section containing the see also links?--[[User:Leocp1|Leocp1]] 16:59, 23 January 2012 (EST)<br />
::@Leocp1 What links are you talking about? Wiki links already should be covered by [[Template:Article_summary_wiki]]), among others I'd prefer to see only '''important''' ones (like links to software home page, documentation, own wiki etc) included included in the template. --[[User:AlexanderR|AlexanderR]] 19:11, 23 January 2012 (EST)<br />
:::I've written a summary in the subsection below and added some other ideas: currently I think solution 4 may be the tidiest and best looking, otherwise I'd try solution 1 as a second choice. Please add your opinions there so we can make a better decision.<br />
:::@AlexanderR We're talking about the See also links at the bottom of the article, not the links specific to each application, which should stay in the proper App template and/or the related wiki article (I'm not sure if that's what you meant).<br />
:::-- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] 07:38, 24 January 2012 (EST)<br />
::::Who in the world uses this links at all? Wikipedia does not have any links at the bottom of articles except proofs of written or ones in categories templates. We do not provide proofs.. Or do we? And it would be great to see statistics of clicks on such links... --[[User:AlexanderR|AlexanderR]] 08:01, 24 January 2012 (EST)<br />
:::::Not sure if I'm on the same page as you, but many Wikipedia articles have 'External links' section at the bottom, below the references and above the 'Related articles' part. Have a look at e.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uefi article. It has 'See also', 'References' and 'External links' sections. -- [[User:Karol|Karol]] 08:43, 24 January 2012 (EST)<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
===Ideas so far===<br />
#Move all see-also links to article summary --[[User:Leocp1|Leocp1]] 16:59, 23 January 2012 (EST)<br />
#*PROS:<br />
#**Currently style compliant (but see related con) -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] 07:38, 24 January 2012 (EST)<br />
#*CONS:<br />
#**There's little room for long URLs and/or descriptions, unless we want to see ugly line wrapping. -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] 07:38, 24 January 2012 (EST)<br />
#**It's possible that in the future the style for article summaries will be reformed not to allow external links anymore, requiring them to be in See also sections only. -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] 07:38, 24 January 2012 (EST)<br />
#Move only important see-also links to article summary --[[User:AlexanderR|AlexanderR]] 19:11, 23 January 2012 (EST)<br />
#*PROS:<br />
#**Same as 1.<br />
#**No problems with line wrapping. --[[User:AlexanderR|AlexanderR]] 23:48, 3 February 2012 (EST)<br />
#**In many articles links to site/Wikipedia/etc. are already located in random places in text. Placing them all into single template at the top will hardly make "See also" section less visible than now. --[[User:AlexanderR|AlexanderR]] 23:48, 3 February 2012 (EST)<br />
#*CONS:<br />
#**Same as 1.<br />
#**The See also section will be even more "buried" at the bottom of the article, becoming practically useless. -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] 07:38, 24 January 2012 (EST)<br />
#Find a new name instead of "See also", move the section at the top, as the first section (and change its layout, e.g. use 2 columns?). -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] 07:38, 24 January 2012 (EST)<br />
#*PROS:<br />
#**Links are immediately accessible and there's room for long URLs and descriptions. -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] 07:38, 24 January 2012 (EST)<br />
#*CONS:<br />
#**Incosistent with the other articles, may look ugly. -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] 07:38, 24 January 2012 (EST)<br />
#Link to [[#See also]] from the introduction, with a sentence that enhances its visibility. -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] 07:38, 24 January 2012 (EST)<br />
#*PROS:<br />
#**Style compliant. -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] 07:38, 24 January 2012 (EST)<br />
#**The main content of the article is still shown first. -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] 07:38, 24 January 2012 (EST)<br />
#*CONS:<br />
#**Links are not evident at a glance unlike the solutions above. -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] 07:38, 24 January 2012 (EST)<br />
<br />
== IRC clients: Conspire fails to build ==<br />
<br />
Moving here Conspire from the IRC clients section, since it's reported to fail to build and it had been commented in the list (bad practice):<br />
<br />
* {{App|Conspire|Lightweight, simple, and powerful|http://nenolod.net/|{{AUR|conspire-client}}}}<br />
<br />
-- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] 17:02, 10 March 2012 (EST)<br />
<br />
== Multi-Protocol Downloader section ==<br />
<br />
Similarly to command shells, a downloader section is missing. Here we find good the same one: [[pyLoad#Alternatives]] [[JDownloader#Alternatives]].<br />
Plus aria2, curl, wget, kget should be added. Is it ok? Could you point me more downloaders?<br />
As kget and aria2 would be doubled we can do a "Multi-Protocol Downloader" section like [[List_of_Applications#Multi-Protocol Clients]] and delete original entries liting supported protocols. -- [[User:Flu|Flu]] ([[User talk:Flu|talk]]) 16:37, 8 September 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Good plan, +1. -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 05:01, 11 September 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Order of things? ==<br />
<br />
Is there any special order to these lists?<br />
<br />
For instance, under "Internet" it would seem more intuitive to begin with "Network Managers", then "Browsers", then a section for "Downloaders". and so on.<br />
[[User:Idomeneo1|Idomeneo1]] ([[User talk:Idomeneo1|talk]]) 00:51, 20 January 2014 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:"Intuitive" is subjective, I'd just simply use alphabetical order, although I know it's not used anywhere at the moment... -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 21:07, 20 January 2014 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Call it chronological? i.e. an order in which people (especially beginners) would think of setting things up - network, browser, communication, downloads, media etc.<br />
::The problem with alphabetical lists is that even if we decide on "correct" terms for things, some people will, i.e., look for 'console', and others for 'terminal'.<br />
::[[User:Idomeneo1|Idomeneo1]] ([[User talk:Idomeneo1|talk]]) 14:10, 21 January 2014 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::Eheh a similar objection could be made for the "chronological" order, which, as I said, is subjective, e.g. some people may want to install messaging apps before p2p or vice versa. Maybe what you really mean is a "dependency" order, i.e. if in a group of sections there's one that lists applications (e.g. network managers) that may be necessary for applications in other groups to work, then put it at the top. I can agree with that, also because other sections like the various "Other" should instead better be kept at the bottom. All the in-between sections, though, should be sorted alphabetically: the problem of synonyms would affect any kind of odering we may choose, and in general it affects all kinds of word lists (e.g. dictionaries), so users are used to dealing with it.<br />
:::If you're willing to do the reordering, please do it in several little edits, not a single big one.<br />
:::-- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 07:13, 22 January 2014 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::Yes, having "Other" at the end is exactly the kind of order I mean.<br />
::::[[User:Idomeneo1|Idomeneo1]] ([[User talk:Idomeneo1|talk]]) 15:25, 22 January 2014 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== List dead projects or not? ==<br />
[https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=List_of_Applications/Multimedia&diff=next&oldid=296040 Kino is dead], it doesn't even have a maintainer in the AUR. Is it OK to remove dead-but-still-working applications from the list in the wiki? -- [[User:Karol|Karol]] ([[User talk:Karol|talk]]) 14:16, 3 February 2014 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I wouldn't really know what's best to do, but if the application is confirmed to be still working, ''keep''ing it in the list should be the default action until somebody proves that listing it is counterproductive in some way. Of course a note about the EOL should be added if restored. -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 15:50, 4 February 2014 (UTC)<br />
<br />
[http://www.afterstep.org/aterm.php The aterm project website] has been directing people to use urxvt instead since 2008. I've noticed quite a few projects in the maintainer-doesn't-even-advise-using-it category on this page and I don't see what purpose they serve. [[User:RyneEverett|Ryne Everett]] ([[User talk:RyneEverett|talk]]) 02:26, 13 December 2014 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Well, the apps whose ''upstream'' maintainers explicitly discourage using them can indeed be removed, possibly making sure that any indicated alternative is already present in this list, adding it otherwise. Just note that, taking your post literally, "not advising to" is different from "discouraging to" (the aterm case falls indeed in the latter case) :) Please state the reason for removing applications from the list using the edit summary. -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 02:32, 14 December 2014 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::I propose a deprecation warning, especially in the security subpage. there are numerous projects listed, that might still work, but are not developed anymore. this renders them insecure, as malware recognition needs to keep up with developement. This concerns rkhunter, chkrootkit and also the currently unlisted unhide. [[User:Fordprefect|Fordprefect]] ([[User talk:Fordprefect|talk]]) 12:35, 2 September 2016 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::I think it's too soon to talk on warnings like that when there's hundreds of dead AUR packages on the list... -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 15:41, 2 September 2016 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::Well, for packages meant to improve security concerning malware, frequent updates are no bonus, but crucial. a simple note would help users distinguish more and less active projects. [[User:Fordprefect|Fordprefect]] ([[User talk:Fordprefect|talk]]) 17:17, 2 September 2016 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::At least rkhunter is still in the official repos, and John Horne, the [http://rkhunter.cvs.sourceforge.net/viewvc/rkhunter/rkhunter/files/ACKNOWLEDGMENTS current] main developer is still answering posts in the [https://sourceforge.net/p/rkhunter/mailman/rkhunter-users/ mailing list]. — [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 01:12, 3 September 2016 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Where should "full-stack" scanning software go? ==<br />
<br />
Some software (two examples below, I can add a few more when I have times) provide some set of scanner/camera frontend, image processing, document layout analysis, OCR frontend and document writer. We have categories for almost all of these, but where should software that smoothly incorporates all the above go?<br />
<br />
* {{App|Scan Tailor|Image procesing, document layout analyzer, document writer|http://scantailor.sourceforge.net/|{{Pkg|scantailor-git}}}}<br />
* {{App|gscan2pdf|Scans, runs an OCR engine, minor post-processing, creates a document.|http://gscan2pdf.sourceforge.net/|{{AUR|gscan2pdf}}}}<br />
<br />
I had some difficulty finding software that did what I expected/desired, so perhaps others are too. [[User:Scientific29|Scientific29]] ([[User talk:Scientific29|talk]]) 01:16, 5 September 2014 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:ScanTailor is not a "full-stack" software, it does just the image processing. -- [[User:Lahwaacz|Lahwaacz]] ([[User talk:Lahwaacz|talk]]) 07:57, 5 September 2014 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== What is Xpra, really? ==<br />
<br />
Where should [[Xpra]] go? Technically, remote desktop may be applicable, but it's not limited to remote stuff. You can run<br />
it locally on another X display.<br />
<br />
Technically, all Xpra is is some persistent X sessions that you can attach to and detach from at any time. It's not ''really''<br />
a remote desktop thing.<br />
[[User:Dillebidum|Dillebidum]] ([[User talk:Dillebidum|talk]]) 17:27, 10 January 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Does it ''have'' to go anywhere? -- [[User:Lahwaacz|Lahwaacz]] ([[User talk:Lahwaacz|talk]]) 18:09, 10 January 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Technically, yes. This ''is'' the list of applications, so why not? Xpra is a "screen for X". That way, the least vague thing to do would be to split terminal multiplexers into a multiplexers category and there would be two subcategories: terminal and X11. Xpra would, ''obviously'' be in X11. I say least vague, since screen is a multiplexer, yet Xpra isn't. The only thing it has in common with screen is the persistent sessions. [[User:Dillebidum|Dillebidum]] ([[User talk:Dillebidum|talk]]) 20:37, 11 January 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::It's just ''a'' list of applications, not list of ''all'' applications. The point is that there might be other, more appropriate places on the wiki, e.g. improving [[Allow a program to continue after logoff]]. -- [[User:Lahwaacz|Lahwaacz]] ([[User talk:Lahwaacz|talk]]) 21:10, 11 January 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Add Org-mode as a markup language? ==<br />
<br />
Org-mode is a markup language, but it is tied to the Emacs text editor. Any editor can produce valid org markup, but at present, only Emacs can export that markup to pdf, .tex, html, etc. <br />
<br />
Org-mode is such a great markup language, but I wonder if being tied to the Emacs means we should omit it. What do ya'll think?<br />
<br />
http://orgmode.org/<br />
<br />
{{unsigned|16:43, 18 February 2017|JoshuaBranson}}<br />
<br />
== Scope of the page ==<br />
<br />
It seems that this page is becoming a bloated index for all possible "lists" on the wiki, or maybe even the whole wiki itself. There are other pages to help users find what they are looking for, e.g. [[Table of contents]], [[General recommendations]] and of course the full-text search. Therefore I think that the [[List of applications]] should be a ''comprehensible'' list of the most common categories of application software and not a ''comprehensive'' list of everything. I believe that the index pages can have separate targets and cooperate with each other to provide a complete picture instead of overlapping and hindering readability by linking to each other.<br />
<br />
I propose the following:<br />
<br />
* remove [[List_of_applications/Workspace#Command_shells]] - one does not look for an alternative shell "just because", but to solve some specific problem or inconvenience, which is out of the reach of this page ([[General_recommendations#Console_improvements]] covers it quite nicely)<br />
* <s>I do not consider the things linked from [[List_of_applications/Workspace#Bootsplash]] to be "applications" and would like it removed. An explicit link to [[:Category:Bootsplash]] could be added to [[General_recommendations#Appearance]], although it already links to its parent category: [[:Category:Eye candy]].</s><br />
* remove [[List_of_applications/Workspace#Display_managers]], [[List_of_applications/Workspace#Desktop_environments]], [[List_of_applications/Workspace#Window_managers]] and [[List_of_applications/Workspace#Composite_managers]] - the topic is much better covered in [[General_recommendations#Graphical_user_interface]] (the two packages from [[List_of_applications/Workspace#Window_managers]] could be moved to [[General_recommendations#Console_improvements]])<br />
* <s>remove [[List_of_applications/Workspace#Accessibility]]</s> - it is a topic of its own, not just about selecting applications<br />
* <s>remove [[List_of_applications/Utilities#Databases]]</s> - they are certainly not utilities (so much less applications), but complex systems consisting of many deamons, utilities and interfaces designed to work together<br />
* <s>remove the [[List_of_applications/Internet#Web_Servers]] section:</s><br />
** <s>merge [[List_of_applications/Internet#LAMP_stack]] to [[Server#LAMP]]</s> - I doubt it is useful for an average user<br />
** <s>remove [[List_of_applications/Internet#Wiki_engines]]</s> - it is very incomplete and like above, not useful<br />
** <s>move [[List_of_applications/Internet#Content_management.2C_social_networks.2C_blog_publishers]] back to [[List_of_applications/Internet#Blog_engines]]</s><br />
** <s>move [[List_of_applications/Internet#Cloud_storage_servers]] under [[List_of_applications/Internet#File_sharing]]</s><br />
<br />
-- [[User:Lahwaacz|Lahwaacz]] ([[User talk:Lahwaacz|talk]]) 14:44, 2 March 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I've undone most of the structural changes to [[List of applications]] (starting with [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=List_of_applications/Workspace&oldid=469393]) due to their one-sided nature. A radical restructure of one of the most popular wiki articles requires a consensus that isn't (yet) reached here. -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 14:38, 15 March 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:About Display managers et al., perhaps we should just have a general header such as "Graphical user interface" and link to [[General recommendations#Graphical user interface]]. The idea is that the sections in question contain little more than single wiki links and as such add TOC entries to little benefit. As touched upon in [[#Radical alternative]], a comprehensive TOC is already served by [[Table of Contents]] and there's no need for this page to compete. We could remind users of this by placing a link to [[Table of contents]] somewhere at the top.<br />
:Other sections such as [[List_of_applications/Other#Window_tilers]] could further be moved to their respective articles (here [[Window manager]]) to have all information in one place.<br />
:If this approach works out, we could use it to reduce [[List of applications/Other]] and [[List of applications/Utilities]] in size and merge the articles accordingly, as a compromise until a better approach is agreed upon in [[#Radical alternative]]. -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 14:48, 15 March 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::I think that "Graphical user interface" is too general, it might attract items or crosslinks to other sections for anything with a GUI. We might call it "Custom desktop environment" or something like that to group [[List_of_applications#Taskbars_.2F_panels_.2F_docks]], [[List_of_applications#Application_launchers]], [[List_of_applications#Wallpaper_setters]], [[List_of_applications#Virtual_desktop_pagers]], [[List_of_applications#Logout_dialogue]] and probably also [[List_of_applications#Screen_lockers]]. It could contain links to [[General recommendations]], [[Window manager]] etc. but I wouldn't merge them anywhere until the recategorization discussed in [[#Radical alternative]] is finished. -- [[User:Lahwaacz|Lahwaacz]] ([[User talk:Lahwaacz|talk]]) 15:15, 15 March 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::See [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=List_of_applications/Other&diff=470830&oldid=470804], [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=List_of_applications/Other&diff=470831&oldid=470830].<br />
:::I've kept [[List of applications/Other#Window managers]], [[List of applications/Other#Window tilers]] and [[List_of_applications/Other#Taskbars_.2F_panels_.2F_docks]] (latter could use a simpler name?) under the same [[List of applications#Desktop environments]] header because they're equally a part of a [[Desktop environment]] just like e.g. an application launcher is. We can always remove those items later on a restructure. -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 18:10, 15 March 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::Some more candidates:<br />
::::*[[List of applications/Utilities#Files]]. Naming the header "files" is ambiguous at best; "File management" would be better but there's already [[List of applications/Utilities#File managers]]...<br />
::::*[[List_of_applications/Utilities#Disk_usage_display]] could fit under the more general [[List of applications/Utilities#System monitoring]], however [[List_of_applications/Utilities#Disk_usage_display]] is right next to it. However, [[List_of_applications/Utilities#Partitioning_tools]] is also a "disk" related topic.<br />
::::*[[List_of_applications/Utilities#Keyboard_layout_switchers]] may be better suited for [[List_of_applications/Other#Desktop_environments]]. Then again it's related to [[List_of_applications/Utilities#Input_methods]]<br />
::::So yes, I've also taken on the hard task of properly classifying entries in the "Other" categories. Though I would say completing this will make discussing proper alternatives easier. -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 17:41, 15 March 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
=== Radical alternative ===<br />
<br />
Warning: extreme brainstorming, join at your own risk.<br />
<br />
I agree with Lahwaacz about the fact that this page is becoming bloated and overlapping with the other index pages. However I also think that the very existence of this article (and its subsections) encourages Idomeneo1's approach, and honestly I don't think it's Simple anymore to understand what to keep here and what not, what to interlink where and what not etc., any solution still looks a bit arbitrary to me.<br />
<br />
I was thinking, perhaps we could kill this page completely and merge the various sections in the appropriate Category pages, taking the chance to improve the [[Table of contents|Category tree]], possibly also creating empty categories if needed, which would function as placeholders in that case, or each Category could still contain a main section and some subsections. I think that our current [[Table of contents]] already has some resemblance with the ToC of this article, so that scope overlapping/duplication may be the root cause of the parent discussion. Categories can also have multiple parents, which would address the current problem of having to interlink sections of this article with each other. Another advantage is that users would get more used to look into the Category page of an article, not only to find related articles, but now also to find related software that may not have wiki articles. Another advantage is that when creating an article about a piece of software it's already clear where to categorize it.<br />
<br />
Disadvantages: we lose the ability to see all the applications in the same page. (and...?)<br />
<br />
Last thing, I think that this idea would look the best if the app lists were changed to tables, as we discussed a long time ago in [[Talk:List of games]] and now I tried in [[User:Kynikos/App]]. [[Template:App]] can be changed to create a table row very easily, but I'd also like to discuss restructuring it as shown at the bottom of [[User:Kynikos/App#Terminal emulators]], which IMO gives info less redundantly.<br />
<br />
Enough :) — [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 18:12, 5 March 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Currently we have a rule that if category A has a subcategory B, pages in B cannot be categorized also in A. I'd imagine that the application lists/tables would follow similar rule to avoid duplication, so we'd also lose the ability to see all applications in category A on the same page. Depending on how the actual categorization would look like, this might be important disadvantage - consider e.g. the subsections of [[List_of_applications#File_sharing]].<br />
:-- [[User:Lahwaacz|Lahwaacz]] ([[User talk:Lahwaacz|talk]]) 21:33, 5 March 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Personally I don't think that viewing the whole [[List of applications#File sharing]] section in the same page is so useful; seeing its section structure in the ToC is useful, but that would be preserved in the automated category tree. As I wrote, we could allow subsections in Category pages, for example to keep non-specific distinctions like console/graphical or client/server. We could also instruct toc.py to read section headings in Category pages and show them in the generated ToC (perhaps only under [[:Category:Applications]]). Finally, it wouldn't be a violation of the DRY principle if we also generated pages that collate the contents of some Categories and their descendants, of course protecting them from manual editing. — [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 05:56, 6 March 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::On second thought, [[:Category:Applications]] currently has only 2 levels of subcategories so I think the problem mentioned above does not apply. If more levels appear in the future, I'd imagine it would be for a reason and even then it might not be so terrible. The parent tables or their captions might even contain a link to the subcategory tables to make them more visible instead of duplicating them. -- [[User:Lahwaacz|Lahwaacz]] ([[User talk:Lahwaacz|talk]]) 18:25, 8 March 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::On third thought, we might even start with splitting up this very page, i.e. do [[#Split up completely?]] + an autogenerated ToC list of sections on all subpages. -- [[User:Lahwaacz|Lahwaacz]] ([[User talk:Lahwaacz|talk]]) 18:33, 8 March 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::I'm still in favor of [[#Split up completely?]], it works as an improvement and a compromise for me. — [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 15:31, 9 March 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I was actually thinking that for applications which have a wiki page, browsing [[:Category:Applications]] instead of this page should give basically the same results (maybe some small subsections are squashed together, but that's not a problem). To make things simple(r), we might just say that topics which have most pages outside of [[:Category:Applications]] don't belong here and should be linked externally. Usually such topics have an introduction page, such as [[Server]], [[Xorg]] or [[Desktop environments]]. There would be a huge problem with "Utilities" and "Security" though. Also this approach would probably not cut the bloat enough.<br />
:-- [[User:Lahwaacz|Lahwaacz]] ([[User talk:Lahwaacz|talk]]) 21:33, 5 March 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::As I said, I think that trying to find a clear rule to define what belongs in this page or not is too hard, there are too many blurred cases, as also seen in the parent discussion. IMHO the bloat problem of this article can't be reduced to only some sections in [[List of applications/Workspace]]: I like your "I think that the List of applications should be a comprehensible list of the most common categories of application software and not a comprehensive list of everything", but to me "List of applications" practically does sound like "List of everything", which is why I say that the problem is the whole article itself. — [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 15:19, 8 March 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::Well think that we can cut it in halves: I don't see many problems with [[List of applications/Internet]], [[List of applications/Multimedia]], [[List of applications/Documents]] and [[List of applications/Science]] - they are all with individual sections or even list entries, but the overall scope is clear. On the other hand, most of the "applications" listed on the remaining pages, [[List of applications/Workspace]], [[List of applications/Utilities]], [[List of applications/Security]] and [[List of applications/Other]], fall simply under "Utilities". From what the current page looks like, I think it's roughly like "Desktop utilities", "System administration utilities", "Security utilities" and (shrugs) "Other utilities", but there are many overlaps so it's probably not very useful to make this differentiation and it would be better to call them just "Utilities". Btw. I think that the category tree has generally the same problem with arbitrary decisions: somehow I don't see a common idea behind [[:Category:Command shells]] under [[:Category:Applications]] and [[:Category:Desktop environments]] under [[:Category:System administration]]. So that's the problem - do you see a way out? -- [[User:Lahwaacz|Lahwaacz]] ([[User talk:Lahwaacz|talk]]) 19:29, 8 March 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::Let's use the branch above about the destiny of this article.<br />
::::About the categories, as you say the problem is similar, I don't think there's much to do other than solve case by case: I'm in favor of moving [[:Category:Command shells]] and also [[:Category:Status monitoring and notification]] and [[:Category:Terminal emulators]] under [[:Category:System administration]]. Another thing that I'd do is rename [[:Category:Networking]] to [[:Category:Network administration]], and move only to [[:Category:Applications]] what doesn't fit there anymore, in particular [[:Category:Internet applications]], [[:Category:Telephony and voice]] and probably also [[:Category:Remote desktop]], plus possibly recategorize some articles which are currently directly under [[:Category:Networking]]. At that stage I would also consider renaming [[:Category:System administration]] to [[:Category:Host administration]] to remark the ''ideal'' complementarity of the two *_administration categories.<br />
::::— [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 15:31, 9 March 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:The category tree / table of contents lists wiki pages, not apps - an app would have to have a special wiki page just to be mentioned, and even then, there is old cruft in the wiki pages as well. And that is ''much'' harder to clean up than a list.<br />
:I definitely agree the categories need improvement.<br />
:--[[User:Idomeneo1|Idomeneo1]] ([[User talk:Idomeneo1|talk]]) 00:09, 7 March 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Probably I didn't explain it very clearly, but my idea would be to merge the various lists here (turned into tables) in the editable part of Category pages, e.g. [[:Category:Getting and installing Arch]], so applications wouldn't need a wiki page to be mentioned there. — [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 08:49, 7 March 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::I like tables, especially sortable ones, though I'm not sure how they simplify things.<br />
:::An option could be to break the lists down into smaller sections, which could then be included in their respective wiki pages, as well as in a master list-of-apps page.<br />
:::An issue I see with the current [[Table of Contents]] is that it is entirely manually structured - no headings. How is a category tree "automated"? Does this automation preserve included lists/tables/cross-links?<br />
:::--[[User:Idomeneo1|Idomeneo1]] ([[User talk:Idomeneo1|talk]]) 00:00, 8 March 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::Tables in this case more than simplifying would reduce bloat, since many entries would be reduced to one line (at least on wide screens), and the various fields (name, description, website, packages) would be neatly and rationally separated, making it much easier to scan for the needed info. Tables are also a more standard and often preferred way to list and compare applications e.g. on Wikipedia.<br />
::::About breaking the lists further and merging them into specific wiki pages, I'd be in favor if you want to discuss specific cases. However what is merged into other articles can't be duplicated in a "master list-of-apps page".<br />
::::[[Table of contents]] is completely generated by a [https://github.com/lahwaacz/wiki-scripts/blob/master/toc.py bot], there's no manual structuring. I'm not sure what you mean with your question about preserving included lists etc.<br />
::::— [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 15:00, 8 March 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::Your [[User:Kynikos/App]] trial is a great approach, but I'm unconvinced tables being a good format for this information. If you look at the sections, each table has different column widths (for a reason, but not neat). There are too many other variances: the current template app allows for short or longer descriptions, a single bot comment may shift column width for a whole table, etc. Worst: Even on a wide screen (which can't be a precondition in my view) table data would always break URLs, which is neither readable nor a neat, positive presentation. --[[User:Indigo|Indigo]] ([[User talk:Indigo|talk]]) 21:07, 8 March 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::::Just clarifying that my plan was to eventually switch to the format at the bottom of [[User:Kynikos/App#Terminal_emulators]], which doesn't display urls explicitly. Other modifications in the 3-column table solution that I see as advantages would be to resolve the current [[Template:App]]'s redundancy of always requiring to show the app's packages even when there is a dedicated article which already lists them. However I acknowledge that the idea of using tables isn't attracting much positive feedback, so ok, I'll keep it for the future generations ^^ — [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 16:12, 9 March 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::::: Ok, thanks. Not displaying URLs would help, yes. Still I don't believe we would be able to make column width look neat across sections. Nested tables (for neatness) are not an option re maintainability. I see your point about showing duplication with the packages, but particularly in this list it can also be quite helpful to click through to content of alternative packages directly. It's not that a dedicated article would have immediate info on that. --[[User:Indigo|Indigo]] ([[User talk:Indigo|talk]]) 21:23, 15 March 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::What I was suggesting was to break these lists up further into smaller "include" pages, such as Browsers, Window managers, File managers, etc etc, on separate, single "include" pages that could be simply "included" on the respective wiki pages, as well as the category pages, as well as the list of apps. This would provide simplicity, visibility, and coherence, so a whole bunch of app lists don't need to be maintained separately.<br />
:::::--[[User:Idomeneo1|Idomeneo1]] ([[User talk:Idomeneo1|talk]]) 23:56, 8 March 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::::Hmmm every time that you added, split or removed an included page you'd have to remember to update all the articles that include it, and also you wouldn't be able to include section headings because their levels would have to adapt to the host articles, so it wouldn't be very easy to maintain. — [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 15:31, 9 March 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::::That would be true of any new wiki pages. The idea is to break the lists up into logical units that could be included on multiple pages and categories. Then, when you update the actual lists, such as fixing/removing broken links, you would only need to do it once, instead of editing multiple pages for every list edit.<br />
:::::::--[[User:Idomeneo1|Idomeneo1]] ([[User talk:Idomeneo1|talk]]) 01:33, 10 March 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::::: I think to a large extent the app list in this article is it's own meta information, and that diminishes the more we break it down into smaller (&detached) units. When I try to apply your idea to e.g. [[List of applications#Screen lockers]] (same goes for "file manager", "browsers" examples to me), it's hard to picture where we would want to include that list but easy to imagine it can be helpful to link to from, say, a window manager article. Even '''if''' that "screen locker" unit would list 100% applicable packages for window manager A and B, is it really that helpful to include the full list in A and B? Likewise I don't see how that section can be broken down into more units, such attempt is bound to be very arbitrary in every case. Not simple. What would be a practical example of an include unit with two targets? --[[User:Indigo|Indigo]] ([[User talk:Indigo|talk]]) 22:30, 15 March 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I have to disagree. Since application lists are often quite large, prepending them to the category pages would mean that you often have to scroll down just to see the categories of a category page. If you want to promote categories, maybe they should be placed in the sidebar instead of at the bottom of the article, but we shouldn't obstruct the navigability of categories. --[[User:Larivact|Larivact]] ([[User talk:Larivact|talk]]) 18:32, 3 July 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== <s>Otter and Opera</s> ==<br />
<br />
Otter changed its development model from QtWebEngine to Annulens fork of QtWebKit. <br />
Opera is not "very customizable" anymore. ;) [[User:ShalokShalom|ShalokShalom]] ([[User talk:ShalokShalom|talk]])<br />
<br />
:Do you have a reference to support your claim about Otter? -- [[User:Lahwaacz|Lahwaacz]] ([[User talk:Lahwaacz|talk]]) 12:18, 23 March 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::No response, closing. -- [[User:Lahwaacz|Lahwaacz]] ([[User talk:Lahwaacz|talk]]) 16:59, 14 October 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== TeX is general purpose and markup ==<br />
<br />
TeX is not specific to scientific documents. Its most common use is in mathematics, which is not necessarily 'scientific'. But it is also used in the humanities (e.g. in philosophy, linguistics), business schools (to my surprise), for writing novels, for cookbooks and for drawing ducks, cats and witches. Putting it under 'Scientific Documents' is misleading. Fair enough to point out that it is more common in mathematics and the sciences, if you insist (this is probably true, though I don't have stats), but the suggestion that this is its (sole) function is just wrong. <br />
<br />
It is primarily a document mark-up language, but is oddly not mentioned in the section on text mark-up at all. This is particularly weird since some of the tools there (e.g. pandoc) are commonly used in conjunction with TeX, as well as other formats. <br />
<br />
I would suggest either merging it with the mark-up section or, probably better, put a link there and change the title to just 'TeX Documents'.<br />
<br />
--[[User:Margali|cfr]] ([[User talk:Margali|talk]]) 23:59, 21 October 2017 (UTC)</div>Margalihttps://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Xorg&diff=493303Xorg2017-10-15T18:55:22Z<p>Margali: /* X startup tweaking (startx) */ out-dated / another inaccuracy</p>
<hr />
<div>[[Category:X server]]<br />
[[Category:Graphics]]<br />
[[cs:Xorg]]<br />
[[da:Xorg]]<br />
[[de:X]]<br />
[[el:Xorg]]<br />
[[es:Xorg]]<br />
[[fr:Xorg]]<br />
[[it:Xorg]]<br />
[[ja:Xorg]]<br />
[[nl:Xorg]]<br />
[[pl:Xorg]]<br />
[[pt:Xorg]]<br />
[[ro:Xorg]]<br />
[[ru:Xorg]]<br />
[[tr:X Sunucusu]]<br />
[[zh-hans:Xorg]]<br />
[[zh-hant:Xorg]]<br />
{{Related articles start}}<br />
{{Related|Autostarting}}<br />
{{Related|Display manager}}<br />
{{Related|Window manager}}<br />
{{Related|Font configuration}}<br />
{{Related|Cursor themes}}<br />
{{Related|Desktop environment}}<br />
{{Related|Wayland}}<br />
{{Related|xinit}}<br />
{{Related|xrandr}}<br />
{{Related articles end}}<br />
From http://www.x.org/wiki/:<br />
:The X.Org project provides an open source implementation of the X Window System. The development work is being done in conjunction with the freedesktop.org community. The X.Org Foundation is the educational non-profit corporation whose Board serves this effort, and whose Members lead this work.<br />
<br />
'''Xorg''' is the most popular display server among Linux users. Its ubiquity has led to making it an ever-present requisite for GUI applications, resulting in massive adoption from most distributions. See the [[Wikipedia:X.Org Server|Xorg]] Wikipedia article or visit the [http://www.x.org/wiki/ Xorg website] for more details.<br />
<br />
== Installation ==<br />
<br />
Xorg can be [[install]]ed with the {{Pkg|xorg-server}} package.<br />
<br />
Additionally, some packages from the {{Grp|xorg-apps}} group are necessary for certain configuration tasks, they are pointed out in the relevant sections.<br />
<br />
Finally, an {{Grp|xorg}} group is also available, which includes Xorg server packages, packages from the {{Grp|xorg-apps}} group and fonts. <br />
<br />
{{Tip|You will typically seek to install a [[window manager]] or a [[desktop environment]] to supplement X.}}<br />
<br />
=== Driver installation ===<br />
<br />
The Linux kernel includes open-source video drivers and support for hardware accelerated framebuffers. However, userland support is required for OpenGL and 2D acceleration in X11.<br />
<br />
First, identify your card:<br />
<br />
$ lspci | grep -e VGA -e 3D<br />
<br />
Then install an appropriate driver. You can search the package database for a complete list of open-source video drivers:<br />
<br />
$ pacman -Ss xf86-video<br />
<br />
Xorg searches for installed drivers automatically:<br />
<br />
* If it cannot find the specific driver installed for the hardware (listed below), it first searches for ''fbdev'' ({{pkg|xf86-video-fbdev}}).<br />
* If that is not found, it searches for ''vesa'' ({{pkg|xf86-video-vesa}}), the generic driver, which handles a large number of chipsets but does not include any 2D or 3D acceleration.<br />
* If ''vesa'' is not found, Xorg will fall back to [[kernel mode setting]], which includes GLAMOR acceleration (see {{man|4|modesetting}}).<br />
<br />
In order for video acceleration to work, and often to expose all the modes that the GPU can set, a proper video driver is required:<br />
<br />
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"<br />
|-<br />
! Brand !! Type !! Driver !! OpenGL !! OpenGL ([[Multilib]]) !! Documentation<br />
|-<br />
| rowspan="3" {{R|'''AMD/<br/>ATI'''}} || rowspan="2" | Open source || {{Pkg|xf86-video-amdgpu}} || rowspan="2" | {{Pkg|mesa}} || rowspan="2" | {{Pkg|lib32-mesa}} || [[AMDGPU]]<br />
|-<br />
| {{Pkg|xf86-video-ati}} || [[ATI]]<br />
|-<br />
| Proprietary || {{AUR|catalyst}} || {{AUR|catalyst-libgl}} || {{AUR|lib32-catalyst-libgl}} || [[AMD Catalyst]]<br />
|-<br />
| {{C|'''Intel'''}} || Open source || {{Pkg|xf86-video-intel}} || {{Pkg|mesa}} || {{Pkg|lib32-mesa}} || [[Intel graphics]]<br />
|-<br />
| rowspan="4" {{G|'''Nvidia'''}} || Open source || {{Pkg|xf86-video-nouveau}} || {{Pkg|mesa}} || {{Pkg|lib32-mesa}} || [[Nouveau]]<br />
|-<br />
| rowspan="3" | Proprietary || {{Pkg|nvidia}} || {{Pkg|nvidia-utils}} || {{Pkg|lib32-nvidia-utils}} || rowspan="3" | [[NVIDIA]]<br />
|-<br />
| {{Pkg|nvidia-340xx}} || {{Pkg|nvidia-340xx-utils}} || {{Pkg|lib32-nvidia-340xx-utils}}<br />
|-<br />
| {{Pkg|nvidia-304xx}} || {{Pkg|nvidia-304xx-utils}} || {{Pkg|lib32-nvidia-304xx-utils}}<br />
|}<br />
<br />
{{Note|For NVIDIA Optimus enabled laptop which uses an integrated video card combined with a dedicated GPU, see [[NVIDIA Optimus]] or [[Bumblebee]].}}<br />
<br />
Other video drivers can be found in the {{Grp|xorg-drivers}} group.<br />
<br />
Xorg should run smoothly without closed source drivers, which are typically needed only for advanced features such as fast 3D-accelerated rendering for games.<br />
<br />
=== AMD ===<br />
<br />
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"<br />
|-<br />
! GPU architecture !! Radeon cards !! Open-source driver !! Proprietary driver<br />
|-<br />
| GCN 4<br/>and newer || rowspan=4 | [[wikipedia:List of AMD graphics processing units|various]] || [[AMDGPU]] || [[AMDGPU PRO]]<br />
|-<br />
| GCN 3 || [[AMDGPU]] || [[Catalyst]] /<br/>[[AMDGPU PRO]]<br />
|- <br />
| GCN 2* || [[AMDGPU]] / [[ATI]] || [[Catalyst]]<br />
|- <br />
| GCN 1* || [[AMDGPU]] / [[ATI]] || [[Catalyst]]<br />
|-<br />
| TeraScale 2&3 || HD 5000 - HD 6000 || rowspan=3 | [[ATI]] || [[Catalyst]]<br />
|-<br />
| TeraScale 1 || HD 2000 - HD 4000 || [[Catalyst]] legacy<br />
|-<br />
| Older || X1000 and older || ''not available''<br />
|-<br />
|}<br />
: *: Experimental AMDGPU support<br />
<br />
== Running ==<br />
<br />
=== Display manager ===<br />
<br />
A convenient way to start X, but one that requires an additional application and dependencies, is by using a [[display manager]].<br />
<br />
=== Manually ===<br />
To start the X server without a display manager, see [[xinit]].<br />
<br />
== Configuration ==<br />
<br />
{{Note|Arch supplies default configuration files in {{ic|/usr/share/X11/xorg.conf.d}}, and no extra configuration is necessary for most setups.}}<br />
<br />
Xorg uses a configuration file called {{ic|xorg.conf}} and files ending in the suffix {{ic|.conf}} for its initial setup: the complete list of the folders where these files are searched can be found at [http://www.x.org/releases/current/doc/man/man5/xorg.conf.5.xhtml] or by running {{man|5|xorg.conf}}, together with a detailed explanation of all the available options.<br />
<br />
=== Using .conf files ===<br />
<br />
The {{ic|/etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/}} directory stores host-specific configuration. You are free to add configuration files there, but they must have a {{ic|.conf}} suffix: the files are read in ASCII order, and by convention their names start with {{ic|''XX''-}} (two digits and a hyphen, so that for example 10 is read before 20). These files are parsed by the X server upon startup and are treated like part of the traditional {{ic|xorg.conf}} configuration file. Note that on conflicting configuration, the file read ''last'' will be processed. For that reason the most generic configuration files should be ordered first by name. The configuration entries in the {{ic|xorg.conf}} file are processed at the end. <br />
<br />
For option examples to set, see also the [http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Input_device_configuration#xorg.conf.d fedora wiki].<br />
<br />
=== Using xorg.conf ===<br />
<br />
Xorg can also be configured via {{ic|/etc/X11/xorg.conf}} or {{ic|/etc/xorg.conf}}. You can also generate a skeleton for {{ic|xorg.conf}} with:<br />
<br />
# Xorg :0 -configure<br />
<br />
This should create a {{ic|xorg.conf.new}} file in {{ic|/root/}} that you can copy over to {{ic|/etc/X11/xorg.conf}}.<br />
<br />
{{Tip|If you are already running an X server, use a different display, for example {{ic|Xorg :2 -configure}}.}}<br />
<br />
Alternatively, your proprietary video card drivers may come with a tool to automatically configure Xorg: see the article of your video driver, [[NVIDIA]] or [[AMD Catalyst]], for more details.<br />
<br />
{{Note|Configuration file keywords are case insensitive, and "_" characters are ignored. Most strings (including Option names) are also case insensitive, and insensitive to white space and "_" characters.}}<br />
<br />
== Input devices ==<br />
<br />
For input devices the X server defaults to the libinput driver ({{Pkg|xf86-input-libinput}}), but {{Pkg|xf86-input-evdev}} and related drivers are available as alternative.[https://www.archlinux.org/news/xorg-server-1191-is-now-in-extra/]<br />
<br />
[[Udev]], which is provided as a systemd dependency, will detect hardware and both drivers will act as hotplugging input driver for almost all devices, as defined in the default configuration files {{ic|10-evdev.conf}} and {{ic|40-libinput.conf}} in the {{ic|/usr/share/X11/xorg.conf.d/}} directory.<br />
<br />
After starting X server, the log file will show which driver hotplugged for the individual devices (note the most recent log file name may vary): <br />
$ grep -e "Using input driver " Xorg.0.log<br />
<br />
If both do not support a particular device, install the needed driver from the {{Grp|xorg-drivers}} group. The same applies, if you want to use another driver. <br />
<br />
To influence hotplugging, see [[#Configuration]]. <br />
<br />
For specific instructions, see also the [[libinput]] article, the following pages below, or the [https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Input_device_configuration Fedora wiki] entry for more examples.<br />
<br />
=== Mouse acceleration ===<br />
<br />
See [[Mouse acceleration]].<br />
<br />
=== Extra mouse buttons ===<br />
<br />
See [[All Mouse Buttons Working]].<br />
<br />
=== Touchpad ===<br />
<br />
See [[libinput]] or [[Synaptics]].<br />
<br />
=== Touchscreen ===<br />
<br />
See [[Touchscreen]].<br />
<br />
=== Keyboard settings ===<br />
<br />
See [[Keyboard configuration in Xorg]].<br />
<br />
== Monitor settings ==<br />
<br />
=== Getting started ===<br />
<br />
{{Note|Newer versions of Xorg are auto-configuring, you should not need to use this.}}<br />
<br />
First, create a new config file, such as {{ic|/etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/10-monitor.conf}}.<br />
<br />
{{hc|/etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/10-monitor.conf|<nowiki><br />
Section "Monitor"<br />
Identifier "Monitor0"<br />
EndSection<br />
<br />
Section "Device"<br />
Identifier "Device0"<br />
Driver "vesa" #Choose the driver used for this monitor<br />
EndSection<br />
<br />
Section "Screen"<br />
Identifier "Screen0" #Collapse Monitor and Device section to Screen section<br />
Device "Device0"<br />
Monitor "Monitor0"<br />
DefaultDepth 16 #Choose the depth (16||24)<br />
SubSection "Display"<br />
Depth 16<br />
Modes "1024x768_75.00" #Choose the resolution<br />
EndSubSection<br />
EndSection<br />
</nowiki>}}<br />
<br />
{{Note|By default, Xorg needs to be able to detect a monitor and will not start otherwise. A workaround is to create a configuration file such as the example above and thus avoid auto-configuring. A common case where this is necessary is a headless system, which boots without a monitor and starts Xorg automatically, either from a [[Automatic login to virtual console|virtual console]] at [[Start X at login|login]], or from a [[display manager]].}}<br />
<br />
=== Multiple monitors ===<br />
<br />
See main article [[Multihead]] for general information.<br />
<br />
See also GPU-specific instructions:<br />
* [[NVIDIA#Multiple monitors]]<br />
* [[Nouveau#Dual head]]<br />
* [[AMD Catalyst#Double Screen (Dual Head / Dual Screen / Xinerama)]]<br />
* [[ATI#Multihead setup]]<br />
<br />
==== More than one graphics card ====<br />
<br />
You must define the correct driver to use and put the bus ID of your graphic cards.<br />
<br />
{{bc|<br />
Section "Device"<br />
Identifier "Screen0"<br />
Driver "nouveau"<br />
BusID "PCI:0:12:0"<br />
EndSection<br />
<br />
Section "Device"<br />
Identifier "Screen1"<br />
Driver "radeon"<br />
BusID "PCI:1:0:0"<br />
EndSection<br />
}}<br />
<br />
To get your bus ID:<br />
<br />
{{hc|<nowiki>$ lspci | grep VGA</nowiki>|<nowiki><br />
01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: nVidia Corporation G96 [GeForce 9600M GT] (rev a1)<br />
</nowiki>}}<br />
<br />
The bus ID here is 1:0:0.<br />
<br />
=== Display size and DPI ===<br />
<br />
{{Accuracy|1=Xorg always sets dpi to 96. See [https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=23705 this], [https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=41115 this] and finally [http://pastebin.com/vtzyBK6e this].}}<br />
<br />
The DPI of the X server is determined in the following manner:<br />
# The -dpi command line option has highest priority.<br />
# If this is not used, the DisplaySize setting in the X config file is used to derive the DPI, given the screen resolution.<br />
# If no DisplaySize is given, the monitor size values from [[wikipedia:Display_Data_Channel|DDC]] are used to derive the DPI, given the screen resolution.<br />
# If DDC does not specify a size, 75 DPI is used by default.<br />
<br />
In order to get correct dots per inch (DPI) set, the display size must be recognized or set. Having the correct DPI is especially necessary where fine detail is required (like font rendering). Previously, manufacturers tried to create a standard for 96 DPI (a 10.3" diagonal monitor would be 800x600, a 13.2" monitor 1024x768). These days, screen DPIs vary and may not be equal horizontally and vertically. For example, a 19" widescreen LCD at 1440x900 may have a DPI of 89x87. To be able to set the DPI, the Xorg server attempts to auto-detect your monitor's physical screen size through the graphic card with DDC. <s>When the Xorg server knows the physical screen size, it will be able to set the correct DPI depending on resolution size.</s><br />
<br />
To see if your display size and DPI are detected/calculated correctly:<br />
<br />
$ xdpyinfo | grep -B2 resolution<br />
<br />
Check that the dimensions match your display size. If the Xorg server is not able to correctly calculate the screen size, it will default to 75x75 DPI and you will have to calculate it yourself.<br />
<br />
If you have specifications on the physical size of the screen, they can be entered in the Xorg configuration file so that the proper DPI is calculated:<br />
<br />
{{bc|<br />
Section "Monitor"<br />
Identifier "Monitor0"<br />
DisplaySize 286 179 # In millimeters<br />
EndSection<br />
}}<br />
<br />
If you only want to enter the specification of your monitor '''without''' creating a full xorg.conf create a new config file. For example ({{ic|/etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/90-monitor.conf}}):<br />
<br />
{{bc|<br />
Section "Monitor"<br />
Identifier "<default monitor>"<br />
DisplaySize 286 179 # In millimeters<br />
EndSection<br />
}}<br />
<br />
If you do not have specifications for physical screen width and height (most specifications these days only list by diagonal size), you can use the monitor's native resolution (or aspect ratio) and diagonal length to calculate the horizontal and vertical physical dimensions. Using the Pythagorean theorem on a 13.3" diagonal length screen with a 1280x800 native resolution (or 16:10 aspect ratio):<br />
<br />
$ echo 'scale=5;sqrt(1280^2+800^2)' | bc # 1509.43698<br />
<br />
This will give the pixel diagonal length and with this value you can discover the physical horizontal and vertical lengths (and convert them to millimeters):<br />
<br />
$ echo 'scale=5;(13.3/1509)*1280*25.4' | bc # 286.43072<br />
$ echo 'scale=5;(13.3/1509)*800*25.4' | bc # 179.01920<br />
<br />
{{Note|This calculation works for monitors with square pixels; however, there is the seldom monitor that may compress aspect ratio (e.g 16:10 aspect resolution to a 16:9 monitor). If this is the case, you should measure your screen size manually.}}<br />
<br />
==== Setting DPI manually ====<br />
<br />
{{Note|While you can set any dpi you like and applications using Qt and GTK will scale accordingly, it's recommended to set it to 96, 120 (25% higher), 144 (50% higher), 168 (75% higher), 192 (100% higher) etc., to reduce scaling artifacts to GUI that use bitmaps. Reducing it below 96 dpi may not reduce size of graphical elements of GUI as typically the lowest dpi the icons are made for is 96.}}<br />
<br />
For RandR compliant drivers (for example the open source ATI driver), you can set it by:<br />
<br />
$ xrandr --dpi 144<br />
<br />
{{Note|Applications that comply with the setting will not change immediately. You have to start them anew.}}<br />
<br />
See [[Execute commands after X start]] to make it permanent.<br />
<br />
===== Proprietary NVIDIA driver =====<br />
<br />
DPI can be set manually if you only plan to use one resolution ([http://pxcalc.com/ DPI calculator]):<br />
<br />
{{bc|<br />
Section "Monitor"<br />
Identifier "Monitor0"<br />
Option "DPI" "96 x 96"<br />
EndSection<br />
}}<br />
<br />
You can manually set the DPI adding the options below on {{ic|/etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/20-nvidia.conf}} (inside '''Device''' section):<br />
<br />
Option "UseEdidDpi" "False"<br />
Option "DPI" "96 x 96"<br />
<br />
=== Display Power Management ===<br />
<br />
[[DPMS]] (Display Power Management Signaling) is a technology that allows power saving behaviour of monitors when the computer is not in use. This will allow you to have your monitors automatically go into standby after a predefined period of time.<br />
<br />
== Composite ==<br />
<br />
The Composite extension for X causes an entire sub-tree of the window hierarchy to be rendered to an off-screen buffer. Applications can then take the contents of that buffer and do whatever they like. The off-screen buffer can be automatically merged into the parent window or merged by external programs, called compositing managers. See the following article for more information: [[Wikipedia:Compositing window manager|compositing window manager]]<br />
<br />
Some window managers (e.g. [[Compiz]], [[Enlightenment]], KWin, Marco, Metacity, Muffin, Mutter, [[Xfwm]]) do compositing on their own. For other window managers, a standalone composite manager can be used.<br />
<br />
=== List of composite managers ===<br />
<br />
* {{App|[[Cairo Compmgr|Cairo Composite Manager]]|Cairo based composite manager|http://cairo-compmgr.tuxfamily.org/|{{AUR|cairo-compmgr-git}}}}<br />
* {{App|[[Compton]]|Compositor (a fork of xcompmgr-dana)|https://github.com/chjj/compton|{{Pkg|compton}}}}<br />
* {{App|[[Xcompmgr]]|Composite window-effects manager|http://cgit.freedesktop.org/xorg/app/xcompmgr/|{{Pkg|xcompmgr}}}}<br />
* {{App|Unagi|Modular compositing manager which aims written in C and based on XCB|http://projects.mini-dweeb.org/projects/unagi|{{AUR|unagi}}}}<br />
<br />
== Tips and tricks ==<br />
<br />
=== X startup tweaking (startx) ===<br />
<br />
{{Accuracy|{{ic|/usr/bin/startx}} should not be modified, ''startx'' recognises the options as command line arguments. Information is also outdated. kdm retired a while ago. Unless the warning now applies to sdm, it may no longer be relevant.}}<br />
<br />
For X's option reference see:<br />
$ man Xserver<br />
<br />
The following options have to be appended to the variable {{ic|"defaultserverargs"}} in the {{ic|/usr/bin/startx}} file:<br />
<br />
* Enable deferred glyph loading for 16 bit fonts:<br />
-deferglyphs 16<br />
<br />
{{Note|If you start X with kdm, the startx script does not seem to be executed. X options must be appended to the variable {{ic|ServerArgsLocal}} in the {{ic|/usr/share/config/kdm/kdmrc}} file.}}<br />
<br />
=== Nested X session ===<br />
<br />
{{Expansion|mention [[Awesome#Using_Xephyr|xephyr]]}}<br />
<br />
To run a nested session of another desktop environment:<br />
$ /usr/bin/Xnest :1 -geometry 1024x768+0+0 -ac -name Windowmaker & wmaker -display :1<br />
<br />
This will launch a Window Maker session in a 1024 by 768 window within your current X session.<br />
<br />
This needs the package {{Pkg|xorg-server-xnest}} to be installed.<br />
<br />
=== Starting GUI programs remotely ===<br />
<br />
See main article: [[SSH#X11 forwarding]].<br />
<br />
=== On-demand disabling and enabling of input sources ===<br />
<br />
With the help of ''xinput'' you can temporarily disable or enable input sources. This might be useful, for example, on systems that have more than one mouse, such as the ThinkPads and you would rather use just one to avoid unwanted mouse clicks.<br />
<br />
[[Install]] the {{Pkg|xorg-xinput}} package.<br />
<br />
Find the name or ID of the device you want to disable:<br />
<br />
$ xinput<br />
<br />
For example in a Lenovo ThinkPad T500, the output looks like this:<br />
<br />
{{hc|$ xinput|<nowiki><br />
⎡ Virtual core pointer id=2 [master pointer (3)]<br />
⎜ ↳ Virtual core XTEST pointer id=4 [slave pointer (2)]<br />
⎜ ↳ TPPS/2 IBM TrackPoint id=11 [slave pointer (2)]<br />
⎜ ↳ SynPS/2 Synaptics TouchPad id=10 [slave pointer (2)]<br />
⎣ Virtual core keyboard id=3 [master keyboard (2)]<br />
↳ Virtual core XTEST keyboard id=5 [slave keyboard (3)]<br />
↳ Power Button id=6 [slave keyboard (3)]<br />
↳ Video Bus id=7 [slave keyboard (3)]<br />
↳ Sleep Button id=8 [slave keyboard (3)]<br />
↳ AT Translated Set 2 keyboard id=9 [slave keyboard (3)]<br />
↳ ThinkPad Extra Buttons id=12 [slave keyboard (3)]<br />
</nowiki>}}<br />
<br />
Disable the device with {{ic|xinput --disable ''device''}}, where ''device'' is the device ID or name of the device you want to disable. In this example we will disable the Synaptics Touchpad, with the ID 10:<br />
<br />
$ xinput --disable 10<br />
<br />
To re-enable the device, just issue the opposite command:<br />
<br />
$ xinput --enable 10<br />
<br />
Alternatively using the device name, the command to disable the touchpad would be:<br />
<br />
$ xinput --disable "SynPS/2 Synaptics TouchPad"<br />
<br />
=== Killing application with hotkey ===<br />
Run script on hotkey:<br />
<br />
#!/bin/bash<br />
windowFocus=$(xdotool getwindowfocus);<br />
pid=$(xprop -id $windowFocus | grep PID);<br />
kill -9 $pid<br />
<br />
Deps: {{Pkg|xorg-xprop}}, {{Pkg|xdotool}}<br />
<br />
=== Block TTY access ===<br />
<br />
To block tty access when in an X add the following to [[#Configuration|xorg.conf]]:<br />
{{bc|Section "ServerFlags"<br />
Option "DontVTSwitch" "True"<br />
EndSection}}<br />
<br />
=== Prevent a user from killing X ===<br />
<br />
To prevent a user from killing when it is running add the following to [[#Configuration|xorg.conf]]:<br />
{{bc|Section "ServerFlags"<br />
Option "DontZap" "True"<br />
EndSection}}<br />
<br />
== Troubleshooting ==<br />
<br />
=== General ===<br />
<br />
If a problem occurs, view the log stored in either {{ic|/var/log/}} or, for the rootless X default since v1.16, in {{ic|~/.local/share/xorg/}}. [[GDM]] users should check the [[systemd]] journal. [https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=184639]<br />
<br />
The logfiles are of the form {{ic|Xorg.n.log}} with {{ic|n}} being the display number. For a single user machine with default configuration the applicable log is frequently {{ic|Xorg.0.log}}, but otherwise it may vary. To make sure to pick the right file it may help to look at the timestamp of the X server session start and from which console it was started. For example: <br />
<br />
{{hc|1=$ grep -e Log -e tty Xorg.0.log|2=[ 40.623] (==) Log file: "/home/archuser/.local/share/xorg/Xorg.0.log", Time: Thu Aug 28 12:36:44 2014<br />
[ 40.704] (--) controlling tty is VT number 1, auto-enabling KeepTty}}<br />
<br />
* In the logfile then be on the lookout for any lines beginning with {{ic|(EE)}}, which represent errors, and also {{ic|(WW)}}, which are warnings that could indicate other issues.<br />
<br />
* If there is an ''empty'' {{ic|.xinitrc}} file in your {{ic|$HOME}}, either delete or edit it in order for X to start properly. If you do not do this X will show a blank screen with what appears to be no errors in your {{ic|Xorg.0.log}}. Simply deleting it will get it running with a default X environment.<br />
* If the screen goes black, you may still attempt to switch to a different virtual console (e.g. {{ic|Ctrl+Alt+F2}}), and blindly log in as root. You can do this by typing {{ic|root}} (press {{ic|Enter}} after typing it) and entering the root password (again, press {{ic|Enter}} after typing it).<br />
<br />
: You may also attempt to kill the X server with:<br />
: {{bc|# pkill X}}<br />
: If this does not work, reboot blindly with:<br />
: {{bc|# reboot}}<br />
<br />
*Check specific pages in [[:Category:Input devices]] if you have issues with keyboard, mouse, touchpad etc.<br />
*Search for common problems in [[ATI]], [[Intel]] and [[NVIDIA]] articles.<br />
<br />
=== Black screen, No protocol specified.., Resource temporarily unavailable for all or some users ===<br />
<br />
X creates configuration and temporary files in current user's home directory. Make sure there is free disk space available on the partition your home directory resides in. Unfortunately, X server does not provide any more obvious information about lack of disk space in this case.<br />
<br />
=== CTRL right key does not work with oss keymap ===<br />
<br />
{{Accuracy|The file will be overwritten on {{Pkg|xkeyboard-config}} update; for such simple task should be used [[Xmodmap]].}}<br />
<br />
Edit as root {{ic|/usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/fr}}, and change the line:<br />
<br />
include "level5(rctrl_switch)"<br />
<br />
to<br />
<br />
// include "level5(rctrl_switch)"<br />
<br />
Then restart X, reboot or run<br />
<br />
setxkbmap fr oss<br />
<br />
=== DRI with Matrox cards stopped working ===<br />
<br />
If you use a Matrox card and DRI stopped working after upgrading to Xorg, try adding the line:<br />
<br />
Option "OldDmaInit" "On"<br />
<br />
to the Device section that references the video card in {{ic|xorg.conf}}.<br />
<br />
=== Frame-buffer mode problems ===<br />
<br />
If X fails to start with the following log messages,<br />
<br />
{{bc|<nowiki><br />
(WW) Falling back to old probe method for fbdev<br />
(II) Loading sub module "fbdevhw"<br />
(II) LoadModule: "fbdevhw"<br />
(II) Loading /usr/lib/xorg/modules/linux//libfbdevhw.so<br />
(II) Module fbdevhw: vendor="X.Org Foundation"<br />
compiled for 1.6.1, module version=0.0.2<br />
ABI class: X.Org Video Driver, version 5.0<br />
(II) FBDEV(1): using default device<br />
<br />
Fatal server error:<br />
Cannot run in framebuffer mode. Please specify busIDs for all framebuffer devices<br />
</nowiki>}}<br />
<br />
[[Uninstall]] the {{pkg|xf86-video-fbdev}} package.<br />
<br />
=== Launching multiple X sessions with proprietary NVIDIA on Xorg 1.16 ===<br />
<br />
When attempting to launch X sessions in multiple ttys on Xorg 1.16, you may be rejected with a log indicating that no drivers were found. I found that a workaround for this was to specifically tell X that we'd like to use the 'nvidia' driver.<br />
<br />
{{ic|/etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/20-nvidia.conf}}<br />
Section "Device"<br />
Identifier "Device0"<br />
Driver "nvidia"<br />
VendorName "NVIDIA Corporation"<br />
Option "NoLogo" "True"<br />
EndSection<br />
<br />
=== Program requests "font '(null)'" ===<br />
<br />
* Error message: "''unable to load font `(null)'.''"<br />
Some programs only work with bitmap fonts. Two major packages with bitmap fonts are available, {{Pkg|xorg-fonts-75dpi}} and {{Pkg|xorg-fonts-100dpi}}. You do not need both; one should be enough. To find out which one would be better in your case, try this:<br />
<br />
$ xdpyinfo | grep resolution<br />
<br />
and use what is closer to the shown value.<br />
<br />
=== Recovery: disabling Xorg before GUI login ===<br />
<br />
If Xorg is set to boot up automatically and for some reason you need to prevent it from starting up before the login/display manager appears (if the system is wrongly configured and Xorg does not recognize your mouse or keyboard input, for instance), you can accomplish this task with two methods.<br />
<br />
* Change default target to rescue.target. See [[systemd#Change default target to boot into]].<br />
* If you have not only a faulty system that makes Xorg unusable, but you have also set the GRUB menu wait time to zero, or cannot otherwise use GRUB to prevent Xorg from booting, you can use the Arch Linux live CD. Follow the [[Installation_guide#Format the partitions|installation guide]] about how to mount and chroot into the installed Arch Linux. Alternatively try to switch into another [[Getty|tty]] with {{ic|Ctrl+Alt}} + function key (usually from {{ic|F1}} to {{ic|F7}} depending on which is not used by X), login as root and follow steps below.<br />
<br />
Depending on setup, you will need to do one or more of these steps:<br />
<br />
* [[Disable]] the [[display manager]].<br />
* Disable the [[start X at login|automatic start of the X]].<br />
* Rename the {{ic|~/.xinitrc}} or comment out the {{ic|exec}} line in it.<br />
<br />
=== X clients started with "su" fail ===<br />
<br />
If you are getting "Client is not authorized to connect to server", try adding the line:<br />
<br />
session optional pam_xauth.so<br />
<br />
to {{ic|/etc/pam.d/su}} and {{ic|/etc/pam.d/su-l}}. {{ic|pam_xauth}} will then properly set environment variables and handle {{ic|xauth}} keys.<br />
<br />
=== X failed to start: Keyboard initialization failed ===<br />
<br />
If the filesystem (specifically {{ic|/tmp}}) is full, {{ic|startx}} will fail. {{ic|/var/log/Xorg.0.log}} will end with:<br />
<br />
{{bc|<nowiki><br />
(EE) Error compiling keymap (server-0)<br />
(EE) XKB: Could not compile keymap<br />
(EE) XKB: Failed to load keymap. Loading default keymap instead.<br />
(EE) Error compiling keymap (server-0)<br />
(EE) XKB: Could not compile keymap<br />
XKB: Failed to compile keymap<br />
Keyboard initialization failed. This could be a missing or incorrect setup of xkeyboard-config.<br />
Fatal server error:<br />
Failed to activate core devices.<br />
Please consult the The X.Org Foundation support at http://wiki.x.org<br />
for help.<br />
Please also check the log file at "/var/log/Xorg.0.log" for additional information.<br />
(II) AIGLX: Suspending AIGLX clients for VT switch<br />
</nowiki>}}<br />
<br />
Make some free space on the relevant filesystem and X will start.<br />
<br />
=== Rootless Xorg (v1.16) ===<br />
<br />
As of version 1.16 [https://www.archlinux.org/news/xorg-server-116-is-now-available/], Xorg may run with standard user privileges with the help of {{ic|logind}}. The requirements for this are:<br />
<br />
* [[systemd]]; version >=216 for multiple instances<br />
* Starting X via [[xinit]]; display managers are not supported<br />
* [[Kernel mode setting]]; implementations in proprietary display drivers fail [http://cgit.freedesktop.org/xorg/xserver/tree/hw/xfree86/xorg-wrapper.c#n222 auto-detection] and require manually setting {{ic|1=needs_root_rights = no}} in {{ic|/etc/X11/Xwrapper.config}}.<br />
<br />
If you do not fit these requirements, re-enable root rights in {{ic|/etc/X11/Xwrapper.config}}:<br />
<br />
needs_root_rights = ''yes''<br />
<br />
See also {{man|1|Xorg.wrap}} and [[Systemd/User#Xorg as a systemd user service]].<br />
<br />
[[GDM]] also runs Xorg without root privileges by default when [[Kernel mode setting]] is used. If you don't use KMS with [[NVIDIA]], you can force rootless Xorg as described above via {{ic|1=Xwrapper.config}}.<br />
<br />
==== Broken redirection ====<br />
<br />
While user Xorg logs are stored in {{ic|~/.local/share/xorg/Xorg.log}}, they do not include the output from the X session. To re-enable redirection, start X with the {{ic|-keeptty}} flag:<br />
<br />
exec startx -- -keeptty -nolisten tcp > ~/.xorg.log 2>&1<br />
<br />
Or copy {{ic|/etc/X11/xinit/xserverrc}} to {{ic|~/.xserverrc}}, and append {{ic|-keeptty}}. See [https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?pid=1446402#p1446402].<br />
<br />
=== Why do I get a green screen whenever I try to watch a video?===<br />
<br />
Your color depth is set wrong. It may need to be 24 instead of 16, for example.<br />
<br />
=== SocketCreateListener error ===<br />
<br />
If X terminates with error message "SocketCreateListener() failed", you may need to delete socket files in {{ic|/tmp/.X11-unix}}. This may happen if you have previously run Xorg as root (e.g. to generate an {{ic|xorg.conf}}).</div>Margalihttps://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Talk:Laptop_Mode_Tools&diff=493027Talk:Laptop Mode Tools2017-10-13T03:54:51Z<p>Margali: /* frequency scaling */ new section</p>
<hr />
<div>== acpid and dbus ==<br />
I'd like to see some more explanation of how all of these power management/laptop subsystems relate to each other. Do I need acpid now that udev and dbus exist? Will laptop mode tools talk to pm-suspend to initiate suspend on lid close? Or can this be signalled by dbus, or acpid? --[[User:VitaminJ|VitaminJ]] 19:32, 5 February 2011 (EST)<br />
<br />
:I'm pretty sure you do need acpid, else the events aren't picked up. It seems there are some LM connected scripts in the /etc/acpi/ directories, but they don't really do much besides enabling/disabling LM. I guess that's up to the user to decide, but you could provide some suggestions on the wiki for these scripts.--[[User:Smartass|Smartass]] 10:18, 20 March 2011 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Laptop-mode-tools does not disable on AC ==<br />
<br />
I think the command should be:<br />
# touch /etc/pm/power.d/laptop-mode<br />
because in /usr/lib/pm-utils/power.d/ there is a "laptop-mode" file<br />
<br />
pm-utils version :1.4.1-5 {{Unsigned|01:03, 2 January 2013|Tsester}}<br />
<br />
== frequency scaling ==<br />
<br />
The suggestions about disabling intel_pstate should at least be hedged with appropriate warnings, since the advice here flatly contradicts almost everything else I've read in this wiki, on the forums and elsewhere. --[[User:Margali|cfr]] ([[User talk:Margali|talk]]) 03:54, 13 October 2017 (UTC)</div>Margalihttps://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Andy_Crowd/Update_packages_from_crontab&diff=492748User talk:Andy Crowd/Update packages from crontab2017-10-08T20:44:30Z<p>Margali: double jeopardy not acknowledged?</p>
<hr />
<div>== AUR scripts or not scripts ==<br />
<br />
Hi! I am not sure if it is good to have scripts in the AUR section here may be is better have link to [https://gist.github.com/lahwaacz/11d15cad8374fbfcee38 ] by lahwaacz for pepper flash and have more theoretical descriptions instead of the scripts.<br />
<br />
- Andy Crowd - 蔡依林 19:57, 3 March 2015 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== failed update or upgrade ==<br />
<br />
The main [[Update packages from crontab#Recovery after failed update or upgrade|Recovery after failed update or upgrade]] section should it be moved to sub-page or to the new article?<br />
<br />
- Andy Crowd - 蔡依林 11:49, 21 March 2015 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I agree it should be moved, but I can't think of an existing suitable article, so I'd create a new page for it, categorized under [[:Category:System recovery]]. Also, it would be great if you could crosslink it with other articles in that category. — [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 01:29, 22 March 2015 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== External link under "[[Update packages from crontab#Using systemd|Using systemd]]" ==<br />
<br />
The external link under "[[Update packages from crontab#Using systemd|Using systemd]]" has already broken once. Should we add the information from the article to the wiki page itself? That way we won't have to depend on the permanence and uptime of the linked article.<br />
<br />
— [[User:Cosmo|Cosmo]] ([[User talk:Cosmo|talk]]) 07:05, 3 May 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:No, because the article is rubbish and has no place in Arch's documentation. [[User:Jasonwryan|Jasonwryan]] ([[User talk:Jasonwryan|talk]]) 20:33, 13 July 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Apart from warning about the general ill-advisedness of doing this at all, shouldn't the article also point out that its recommendation to do partial updates is independently dangerous and unsupported? --[[User:Margali|cfr]] ([[User talk:Margali|talk]]) 20:43, 8 October 2017 (UTC)</div>Margalihttps://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Talk:OpenSSH&diff=491458Talk:OpenSSH2017-09-26T22:25:51Z<p>Margali: /* X11 forwarding */</p>
<hr />
<div>== X11 forwarding == <br />
regarding X11 forwarding:<br />
i don't think it is necessary to enable X11Forwarding on the client on a global base:<br />
"Enable the ForwardX11 option in ssh_config on the client."<br />
<br />
simply specifing -X option to ssh works for me. [The preceding unsigned comment was added 2010-01-11T15:41:54 by [[User:Uwinkelvos|Uwinkelvos]] ([[User_talk:Uwinkelvos|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Uwinkelvos|contribs]]).]<br />
<br />
<br />
Upon another look at the SSH Forwarding section, as per the comment in the Stack Exchange link provided [https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/12755/how-to-forward-x-over-ssh-to-run-graphics-applications-remotely#comment17148_12772] the {{Pkg|xorg-xhost}} package is not needed on either the remote side or client side.<br />
However the {{Pkg|xorg-xauth}} package is needed on the side client for the {{ic|ForwardX11Trusted}} or {{ic|-X}} options to work.<br />
[[User:Jamesp9|Jamesp9]] ([[User talk:Jamesp9|talk]]) 10:56, 2 September 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I have to use export DISPLAY=:10.0 on the server after logging in before I can actually run any programme requiring X. --[[User:Margali|cfr]] ([[User talk:Margali|talk]]) 22:25, 26 September 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== SendEnv ==<br />
<br />
I think we should add something about accent/UTF-8/encoding.<br />
Setting SendEnv LANG LC_* in /etc/ssh/ssh_config (client side) would be very useful.<br />
{{unsigned|22 August 2010|LeCrayonVert}}<br />
<br />
== Automatically logout all SSH users when the sshd daemon is shutdown. ==<br />
<br />
edit /lib/systemd/system/systemd-user-sessions.service and append network.target to the after line.<br />
<br />
<br />
[Unit]<br />
Description = Permit User Sessions<br />
<br />
Documentation = man:systemd-user-sessions.service(8)<br />
<br />
After = network.target remote-fs.target<br />
<br />
<br />
then symlink /lib/systemd/system/systemd-user-sessions.service to /etc/systemd/system/<br />
<br />
<br />
[[User:Artomason|artomason]] ([[User talk:Artomason|talk]]) 20:32, 7 February 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== systemd failed to start sshd ==<br />
<br />
It might be good to add, if {{ic|systemctl status sshd}} shows that sshd failed, try and run /usr/sbin/sshd. This way if there is a bad configuration option (ie typo in /etc/ssh/sshd_conf), it is listed with line number.<br />
<br />
[[User:Matyilona200|Matyilona200]] ([[User talk:Matyilona200|talk]]) 13:45, 16 May 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
== follow_symlinks == <br />
<br />
The option 'transform_symlinks' does not work anymore, 'follow_symlinks' is the new one.<br />
<br />
1. Should we correct that at the autossh section?<br />
<br />
2. Should we write that somewhere?<br />
<br />
--[[User:Greenway|Greenway]] ([[User talk:Greenway|talk]]) 17:14, 26 April 2014 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Are you sure? I've just installed {{Pkg|sshfs}} and the man page still mentions both options as separate functions. If {{ic|transform_symlinks}} is really not working anymore, that's more likely a bug that must be reported upstream.<br />
:Anyway I'm just mentioning that also the [[sshfs]] article would be affected.<br />
:-- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 03:12, 28 April 2014 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
Sorry for this discussion and thank you for correcting me.<br />
I referred to this question: http://askubuntu.com/questions/75094/sshfs-transform-symlinks-is-broken<br />
Anyway I tested both parameters:<br />
<br />
<pre><br />
1) sshfs bar: foo<br />
<br />
-a --> /etc l<br />
-b --> c/c1 l<br />
-c d <br />
--c1 f<br />
<br />
2) sshfs -o follow_symlinks bar: foo<br />
<br />
-a d<br />
-b d<br />
-c d<br />
--c1 f<br />
<br />
(works as expected)<br />
<br />
3) sshfs -o transform_symlinks bar: foo<br />
<br />
(same as without the option.)<br />
</pre><br />
<br />
==== Here' s the wiki explanation ====<br />
<br />
===== Following symlinks on the server side =====<br />
<br />
The -o follow_symlinks option will enable this.<br />
<br />
===== Making absolute symlinks work =====<br />
<br />
Use the -o transform_symlinks option, which will transform absolute symlinks (ones which point somewhere inside the mount) into relative ones. <br />
<br />
<br />
--[[User:Greenway|Greenway]] ([[User talk:Greenway|talk]]) 20:38, 28 April 2014 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Regenerate host keys ==<br />
I am using pre-load arch linux image on Raspberry Pi, which had openssh configured, so I want to regenerate new host keys, which could be archived on Debian with<br />
<br />
rm /etc/ssh/ssh_host_* && dpkg-reconfigure openssh-server<br />
<br />
Do we have equivalent command on Arch? I can't find them on the wiki<br />
<br />
ssh-keygen -t dsa -f /etc/ssh/ssh_host_dsa_key<br />
ssh-keygen -t rsa -f /etc/ssh/ssh_host_rsa_key<br />
ssh-keygen -t ecdsa -f /etc/ssh/ssh_host_ecdsa_key<br />
<br />
should be enough? Or more setting is required?<br />
<br />
Ref:<br />
* [http://answers.oreilly.com/topic/62-how-to-generate-new-host-keys/ How to generate new host keys]<br />
* [https://www.digitalocean.com/company/blog/avoid-duplicate-ssh-host-keys/ Avoid Duplicate SSH Host Keys]<br />
<br />
--[[User:Lefthaha|Lefthaha]] ([[User talk:Lefthaha|talk]]) 24 May 2014<br />
<br />
== AutoSSH as a Service ==<br />
<br />
AutoSSH doesn't like to run as a service without specifying a port. Using -M 0 and -f parameters in combination will result in the service not starting. Also, when starting as a service (-f option) SSH will not look in ~/.ssh for public keys. If you're using key authentication, the public key will need to be specified with the -i parameter. I assume this limitation would also apply when running as a systemd service.<br />
<br />
Running AutoSSH this way worked for me for a Socks 5 proxy:<br />
<br />
autossh -f -M 1111 -N -i /home/username/.ssh/id_rsa username@server -D 8080<br />
<br />
--[[User:Twofive0|Twofive0]] ([[User talk:Twofive0|talk]]) 18:24, 12 August 2014 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Autossh as a service seems to be a little redundant, since autossh itself is basically just a service to restart ssh when it exits. I was about write a .service file for autossh when I realized I could cut out the middleman entirely:<br />
:{{hc|~/.config/systemd/user/autossh.service|<nowiki><br />
[Unit]<br />
Description=SSH tunnel<br />
<br />
[Service]<br />
Type=simple<br />
Restart=always<br />
RestartSec=1min<br />
ExecStart=/usr/bin/ssh -F %h/.ssh/config -N foo@bar<br />
<br />
[Install]<br />
WantedBy=default.target<br />
</nowiki>}}<br />
:This seems a little nicer to me, but I'm not sure how I would edit the article to include it.<br />
:[[User:Silverhammermba|Silverhammermba]] ([[User talk:Silverhammermba|talk]]) 00:32, 12 February 2015 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Additional steps to setup Dropbear ==<br />
<br />
Noticed that you need to create some keys before Dropbear will run:<br />
<br />
<pre>dropbearkey -t dss -f /etc/dropbear/dropbear.dss<br />
dropbearkey -t rsa -s 4096 -f /etc/dropbear/dropbear.rsa</pre><br />
Maybe it's a good idea to chmod this to 600 or something?<br />
{{unsigned|5 December 2014|MindTooth}}<br />
<br />
:To note: Not relating to dropbear, but generally [[#Regenerate_host_keys]] above suggests the addition of a setup step for that as well. --[[User:Indigo|Indigo]] ([[User talk:Indigo|talk]]) 14:19, 5 December 2014 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Allowing SSH Users to Shutdown, Mount, etc. Without Root authentication ==<br />
<br />
:Merged from [[Allow users to shutdown]]. -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 20:48, 23 May 2015 (UTC)<br />
The following describes what I did to allow power [EDIT: and mounting] operations on my machine from a SSH login. I'd be very grateful if anyone could tell me if this was correct and if so, I'll add this section to the page and add a link on the polkit examples.<br />
<br />
I have a miniature server machine I use at home for automatic backups, and I used WOL to startup without user intervention, however I found out that issuing {{bc|systemctl poweroff}} and friends works from a tty but from a remote login I get a message starting: {{bc|<nowiki>==== AUTHENTICATING FOR org.freedesktop.login1.power-off ====</nowiki>}} and asking for a root password. After searching online it seemed that the right thing to do (but I'm not sure) was to write a polkit rule overriding the and place this before the defaults in /etc/polkit-1/rules.d/. Below is my rule:<br />
{{bc|<nowiki><br />
polkit.addRule(function(action, subject) {<br />
if ( action.id == "org.freedesktop.login1.power-off" ||<br />
action.id == "org.freedesktop.login1.power-off-multiple-sessions" ||<br />
<br />
action.id == "org.freedesktop.login1.reboot" ||<br />
action.id == "org.freedesktop.login1.reboot-multiple-sessions" ||<br />
<br />
action.id == "org.freedesktop.login1.suspend" ||<br />
action.id == "org.freedesktop.login1.suspend-multiple-sessions" ||<br />
<br />
action.id == "org.freedesktop.login1.hibernate" ||<br />
action.id == "org.freedesktop.login1.hibernate-multiple-sessions" ) {<br />
<br />
if ( subject.isInGroup("mypowergroup") ){<br />
return polkit.Result.YES;<br />
}<br />
}); </nowiki><br />
}}<br />
<br />
There might be a neater way to do this rather than enumerating all the actions but I don't speak JavaScript. EDIT: See below:<br />
<br />
https://gist.github.com/wooptoo/4013294/ccacedd69d54de7f2fd5881b546d5192d6a2bddb<br />
<br />
Someone somewhere seemed to mention that polkit rules weren't the right way to go and there was something wrong with integration with logind/systemd but I didn't understand what he really meant and it was in a different context.<br />
<br />
Thanks in advance for any advice<br />
--[[User:Stellarpower|Stellarpower]] ([[User talk:Stellarpower|talk]]) 12:24, 4 May 2015 (UTC)</div>Margalihttps://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=TeX_Live&diff=485014TeX Live2017-08-12T04:31:46Z<p>Margali: /* Manual Installation */ accuracy - advice was completely wrong! The linked advice is pretty bad, too. Is there a better discussion?</p>
<hr />
<div>[[Category:TeX]]<br />
[[fa:LaTeX]]<br />
[[it:TeX Live]]<br />
[[ja:TeX Live]]<br />
[[zh-hans:TeX Live]]<br />
{{Related articles start}}<br />
{{Related|TeX Live FAQ}}<br />
{{Related|TeX Live and CJK}}<br />
{{Related|Ooolatex}}<br />
{{Related|List of applications/Documents#Scientific_documents}}<br />
{{Related articles end}}<br />
[https://www.tug.org/texlive/ TeX Live] is an "easy way to get up and running with the [[Wikipedia:TeX|TeX]] document production system. It provides a comprehensive TeX system with binaries for most flavors of Unix, including GNU/Linux, and also Windows. It includes all the major TeX-related programs, macro packages, and fonts that are free software, including support for many languages around the world."<br />
<br />
TeX Live is one of the most popular distributions for [[Wikipedia:LaTeX|LaTeX]], [[Wikipedia:ConTeXt|ConTeXt]] and friends.<br />
<br />
== Installation ==<br />
The TeX Live packages are arranged into two groups in the [[official repositories]]: <br />
* {{grp|texlive-most}} includes TeX Live applications.<br />
* {{grp|texlive-lang}} provides various character sets and non-English features.<br />
<br />
The essential package {{Pkg|texlive-core}} contains the basic texmf-dist tree, while {{Pkg|texlive-bin}} contains the binaries, libraries, and the texmf tree. {{Pkg|texlive-core}} is based on the “medium” install scheme of the upstream distribution. All other packages are based on the eponymous collections in TeX Live. To determine which CTAN packages are included in each package, lookup the files:<br />
/var/lib/texmf/arch/installedpkgs/<package>_<revnr>.pkgs<br />
<br />
{{note|{{Pkg|texlive-langextra}} provides language support for African, Arabic, Armenian, Croatian, Hebrew, Indic, Mongolian, Tibetan and Vietnamese.}}<br />
<br />
=== Manual installation ===<br />
<br />
See the [https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/LaTeX/Installation#Custom_installation_with_TeX_Live LaTeX Wikibook] and [https://tug.org/texlive/doc/texlive-en/texlive-en.html#x1-140003 TeX Live Guide]. For programs that require TeX Live to be installed (e.g. kile) you can use the {{AUR|texlive-dummy}} package.<br />
<br />
== Usage ==<br />
<br />
You can test your installation with<br />
<br />
$ tex '\empty Hello world!\bye'<br />
$ pdftex '\empty Hello world!\bye'<br />
<br />
You should get a DVI or a PDF file accordingly.<br />
<br />
You will probably want a [[List of applications/Documents#Scientific_documents|TeX editor]]. There are also a few online solutions that let you create TeX-based documents without TeX Live. See the [https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/LaTeX/Installation#Online_solutions LaTeX wikibook].<br />
<br />
== Important information ==<br />
* The {{Pkg|biber}} utility used to handle biblatex bibliography is provided as a separate package.<br />
<br />
* The way to handle font mappings for updmap was improved in September 2009, and installation should now be much more reliable than in the past. In the meantime, if you encounter error messages about unavailable map files, simply remove them by hand from the {{ic|updmap.cfg}} file (ideally using {{Ic|updmap-sys --edit}}). You can also run {{Ic|updmap-sys --syncwithtrees}} to automatically comment out outdated map lines from the config file.<br />
<br />
* The ConTeXt formats (for MKII and MKIV) are not automatically generated upon installation. See [http://wiki.contextgarden.net the ConTeXT wiki] for instructions on how to do this.<br />
<br />
* The packages containing the documentation and sources are '''no longer available''' in official repositories. You can locally build them with [[#TeXLive Local Manager|tllocalmgr]]. You can also consult documentation online at https://tug.org/texlive/Contents/live/doc.html or on CTAN. Another possibility is using the online documentation at {{ic|<nowiki>http://texdoc.net/pkg/packagename</nowiki>}} which resolves to the relevant pdf for {{ic|packagename}}, similar to the command line tool {{ic|texdoc}} (which is useless without locally installed documentation).<br />
<br />
* TeX Live (upstream) now provides a tool for incremental updates of CTAN packages. On that basis, we also plan to update our packages on a regular basis (we have written tools that almost automate that task).<br />
<br />
* Some tools and utilities included in TeX Live rely on {{Pkg|ghostscript}}, {{Pkg|perl}}, {{Pkg|python2}}, and {{Pkg|ruby}}. <br />
<br />
* For help and information about TeX Live see: https://tug.org/texlive/doc.html and https://tug.org/texlive/doc/texlive-en/texlive-en.html<br />
<br />
* System-wide configuration files are under {{ic|/usr/share/texmf-config}}. User-specific ones should be put under {{ic|~/.texlive/texmf-config}}. {{Ic|$TEXMFHOME}} is {{ic|~/texmf}} and {{Ic|$TEXMFVAR}} is {{ic|~/.texlive/texmf-var}}.<br />
<br />
* A skeleton of a local texmf tree is at {{ic|/usr/local/share/texmf}}: this directory is writable for members of the group '''tex'''.<br />
<br />
===Paper Size===<br />
If you would like to set the default page size to something other than A4 (such as "Letter"), run the following command:<br />
$ texconfig<br />
This command is also capable of changing other useful settings.<br />
<br />
===Error with "formats not generated" upon update===<br />
See [https://bugs.archlinux.org/task/16467 this bug report]. ('''Note that if you do not use the experimental engine ''LuaTeX'', you can ignore this.''') This situation typically occurs when the configuration files {{ic|language.def}} and/or {{ic|language.dat}} for hyphenation patterns contain references to files from earlier releases of {{Ic|texlive-core}}, in particular to the latest experimental hyphenation patterns for German, whose file name changes frequently. Currently they should point to {{ic|dehyph{n,t}-x-2009-06-19.tex}}. <br />
<br />
To solve this, you need to either remove these files: {{ic|/usr/share/texmf-config/tex/generic/config/language.<nowiki>{def,dat}</nowiki>}}<br />
or update them using the newest version under: {{ic|/usr/share/texmf/tex/generic/config/language.<nowiki>{def,dat}</nowiki>}}<br />
and then run<br />
# fmtutil-sys --missing<br />
<br />
===Fonts===<br />
By default, the fonts that come with the various TeX Live packages are not automatically available to Fontconfig. If you want to use them with, say XeTeX or [[LibreOffice]], the easiest approach is to make symlinks as follows:<br />
ln -s /usr/share/texmf-dist/fonts/opentype/public/<some_fonts_you_want> ~/.fonts/OTF/ (or TTF or Type1) <br />
<br />
To make them available to fontconfig, run: <br />
fc-cache ~/.fonts<br />
mkfontscale ~/.fonts/OTF (or TTF or Type1) <br />
mkfontdir ~/.fonts/OTF (or TTF or Type1)<br />
<br />
Alternatively, {{Pkg|texlive-core}} contains the file {{ic|/etc/fonts/conf.avail/09-texlive-fonts.conf}} that contains a list of the font directories used by TeX Live. You can use this file with:<br />
<br />
{{bc|# ln -s /etc/fonts/conf.avail/09-texlive-fonts.conf /etc/fonts/conf.d/09-texlive-fonts.conf}}<br />
<br />
And then update fontconfig:<br />
<br />
{{bc|# fc-cache && mkfontscale && mkfontdir}}<br />
<br />
{{Note|This may cause conflicts with XeTeX/XeLaTeX if the same fonts are (separately) available to both TeX and Fontconfig, i.e. if multiple copies of the same font are available on the search path.}}<br />
<br />
== TeXLive Local Manager ==<br />
{{AUR|texlive-localmanager-git}} is a utility which allows to conveniently manage a TeX Live installation on Arch Linux. See [https://git.archlinux.org/users/remy/texlive-localmanager.git/tree/tllocalmgr#n809 Usage] for details.<br />
<br />
== Install .sty files == <br />
TeX Live (and teTeX) uses its own directory indexes (files named {{ic|ls-R}}), and you need to refresh them after you copy something into one of the TeX trees. Or TeX can not see them. Magic command:<br />
{{bc|# mktexlsr}}<br />
or<br />
{{bc|# texhash}}<br />
or<br />
{{bc|# texconfig[-sys] rehash}}<br />
A command line program to search through these indexes is<br />
kpsewhich<br />
Hence you can check that TeX can find a particular file by running<br />
kpsewhich <filename.sty><br />
The output should be the full path to that file.<br />
<br />
Alternatively, sty files that are intended only for a particular user should go in the {{ic|~/texmf/}} tree. For instance, the latex package wrapfig consists of the file {{ic|wrapfig.sty}} and would go in {{ic|~/texmf/tex/latex/wrapfig/wrapfig.sty}}. There is no need to run {{ic|mktexlsr}} or equivalent because {{ic|~/texmf}} is searched every time tex is run.<br />
<br />
=== Manual Installation ===<br />
You should **not** manually install files into {{ic|/usr/share/texmf-dist/tex/latex/<package name>/*}}. Instead, install local *.sty files in TEXMFLOCAL, if they should be available to all users, or into TEXMFHOME, if they are specific to you. {{ic|mkdir -p $(kpsewhich -var TEXMFHOME)/tex/latex/<package name>}} will create an appropriate home for <package name>'s *.sty files etc. This directory will automatically be searched when *tex is executed - you do not need texhash. If you use TEXMFLOCAL, you need to update the database as described above in order for the files to be found. Further (somewhat confused) discussion can be found here: https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=85757<br />
<br />
=== Using PKGBUILDs ===<br />
To install a LaTeX package on a global level, you should use a [[PKGBUILD]] for the sake of simplifying maintenance. Examples can be found in the [[AUR]], e.g. {{AUR|texlive-gantt}}.<br />
<br />
== Updating babelbib language definitions ==<br />
If you have the very specific problem of babelbib not having the latest language definitions that you need, and you do not want to recompile everything, you can get them manually from https://www.tug.org/texlive/devsrc/Master/texmf-dist/tex/latex/babelbib/ and put them in {{ic|/usr/share/texmf-dist/tex/latex/babelbib/}}. For example:<br />
<br />
{{bc|<br />
# cd /usr/share/texmf-dist/tex/latex/babelbib/ <br />
# wget https://www.tug.org/texlive/devsrc/Master/texmf-dist/tex/latex/babelbib/romanian.bdf<br />
# wget [...all-other-language-files...]<br />
# wget https://www.tug.org/texlive/devsrc/Master/texmf-dist/tex/latex/babelbib/babelbib.sty<br />
}}<br />
<br />
Afterwards, you need to run {{ic|texhash}} to update the TeX database:<br />
# texhash</div>Margalihttps://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Talk:CUPS/Printer-specific_problems&diff=452164Talk:CUPS/Printer-specific problems2016-09-27T03:44:21Z<p>Margali: /* Printer specific information */</p>
<hr />
<div>== Printer specific information ==<br />
<br />
Wouldn't it be better to direct people to openprinting.org and to suggest contributing missing information there, if applicable? Maintaining a very partial list of information about specific printers seems an exercise in futility. Unless, of course, there are Arch-specific issues here, which is different (e.g. how to do X with `pacman` or whatever). That is, shouldn't openprinting.org be the *first* port of call, rather than a last resort? --[[User:Margali|cfr]] ([[User talk:Margali|talk]]) 03:42, 27 September 2016 (UTC)</div>Margalihttps://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Talk:CUPS/Printer-specific_problems&diff=452163Talk:CUPS/Printer-specific problems2016-09-27T03:42:43Z<p>Margali: /* Printer specific information */ new section</p>
<hr />
<div>== Printer specific information ==<br />
<br />
Wouldn't it be better to direct people to openprinting.org and to suggest contributing missing information there, if applicable? Maintaining a very partial list of information about specific printers seems an exercise in futility. Unless, of course, there are Arch-specific issues here, which is different (e.g. how to do X with `pacman` or whatever). --[[User:Margali|cfr]] ([[User talk:Margali|talk]]) 03:42, 27 September 2016 (UTC)</div>Margalihttps://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Plasma&diff=360542Plasma2015-02-13T10:53:28Z<p>Margali: /* Tips and tricks */ remove obsolete information (none of these options exist in Plasma 5 which this page is meant to be about, and some haven't existed in KDE 4 for a couple of years either)</p>
<hr />
<div>[[Category:KDE]]<br />
[[it:Plasma]]<br />
[[zh-CN:Plasma]]<br />
{{Related articles start}}<br />
{{Related|Desktop environment}}<br />
{{Related|KDE}}<br />
{{Related|Qt}}<br />
{{Related|Uniform Look for Qt and GTK Applications}}<br />
{{Related articles end}}<br />
{{Merge|KDE|Perhaps this page made sense in 2009 but currently there seems no point to having a separate page. It duplicates and complicates the KDE plasma section.}}<br />
Plasma is the component of the [[KDE]] project that actually displays the desktop (i.e. wallpapers, panels, etc) using 'containments'. The containments are capable of containing other widgets called plasmoids.<br />
<br />
== Installation ==<br />
{{Note|Plasma 5 is not coinstallable with KDE 4 Workspace. If you install it you will be prompted to remove kdebase-workspace.<br />
It's a good idea to remove it first and then install {{Pkg|plasma-meta}} or {{Grp|plasma}}.}}<br />
<br />
The Plasma 5 Desktop workspace is available in the [[official repositories]] as {{Pkg|plasma-meta}} or {{Grp|plasma}} group.<br />
<br />
== Starting Plasma ==<br />
<br />
Starting Plasma depends on your preferences. Basically there are two ways of starting Plasma. Using a '''display manager''' or '''xinitrc'''.<br />
<br />
=== Using a Display Manager ===<br />
A [[display manager]], or login manager, is typically a graphical user interface that is displayed at the end of the boot process in place of the default shell. It allows easily logging in straight to Plasma.<br />
Using [[SDDM]] as DM is recommended, as it provides better integration with the Plasma 5 theme.<br />
<br />
To launch a Plasma 5 session, choose "Plasma" in your [[display manager]] menu.<br />
{{Note|To better integrate SDDM with Plasma, it is recommended to edit /etc/sddm.conf to use the breeze theme, which is automatically installed with {{Pkg|plasma-meta}} or {{Grp|plasma}}. <br />
Refer to [[SDDM#Theme_settings]] for instructions.}}<br />
<br />
=== Using xinitrc ===<br />
''See the [[xinitrc]] page for more information.''<br />
<br />
Add this line to your {{ic|.xinitrc}} file:<br />
<br />
{{hc|~/.xinitrc|<br />
exec startkde<br />
}}<br />
<br />
Execute ''startx'' or ''xinit'' to start Plasma.<br />
<br />
{{Note|If you want to start Xorg at boot, please read the [[Start X at login]] article.}}<br />
<br />
== Configuration ==<br />
<br />
[[Plasma]] is a desktop integration technology that provides many functions like displaying the wallpaper, adding widgets to the desktop, and handling the panel(s), or "taskbar(s)".<br />
<br />
=== Themes ===<br />
<br />
[http://kde-look.org/index.php?xcontentmode=76 Plasma themes] define the look of panels and plasmoids. For easy system-wide installation, some such themes are available in both the official repositories and the [https://aur.archlinux.org/packages.php?O=0&K=plasmatheme&do_Search=Go AUR].<br />
<br />
The easiest way to install themes is by going through the Desktop Settings control panel:<br />
<br />
Workspace Theme > Desktop Theme > Get new Themes<br />
<br />
This will present a nice frontend for [http://www.kde-look.org/ kde-look.org] that allows you to install, uninstall, or update third-party plasmoid scripts with literally just one click.<br />
<br />
=== Plasmoids ===<br />
<br />
The easiest way to install plasmoid scripts is by right-clicking onto a panel or the desktop:<br />
<br />
Add Widgets > Get new Widgets > Download Widgets<br />
<br />
This will present a nice frontend for [http://www.kde-look.org/ kde-look.org] that allows you to install, uninstall, or update third-party plasmoid scripts with literally just one click.<br />
<br />
== Tips and tricks==<br />
<br />
=== Changing Style of "old" qt4-Applications ===<br />
<br />
If the design of all qt4-based applications is not Breeze, than you can use <code>qtconfig-qt4</code> to fix it</div>Margalihttps://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Cron&diff=360517Cron2015-02-13T02:03:39Z<p>Margali: /* cronie */ It is not true that cronie ignores /etc/crontab. It is just that the file runs no jobs by default.</p>
<hr />
<div>{{Lowercase title}}<br />
[[Category:Daemons and system services]]<br />
[[de:Cron]]<br />
[[fr:Cron]]<br />
[[ja:Cron]]<br />
[[ko:Cron]]<br />
[[sk:Cron]]<br />
[[zh-CN:Cron]]<br />
{{Related articles start}}<br />
{{Related|systemd/Timers}}<br />
{{Related|Update packages from crontab}}<br />
{{Related articles end}}<br />
<br />
From [[Wikipedia:Cron|Wikipedia]]:<br />
<br />
'''''cron''' is the time-based job scheduler in Unix-like computer operating systems. cron enables users to schedule jobs (commands or shell scripts) to run periodically at certain times or dates. It is commonly used to automate system maintenance or administration.''<br />
<br />
== Installation ==<br />
<br />
There are many cron implementations, but none of them are installed by default as the base system uses [[systemd/Timers]] instead. See the Gentoo's [http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/cron-guide.xml cron guide], which offers comparisons.<br />
<br />
Packages available in [[official repositories]]:<br />
<br />
* {{Pkg|cronie}}<br />
* {{Pkg|fcron}}<br />
<br />
Packages available in [[AUR]]:<br />
<br />
* {{AUR|bcron}}<br />
* {{AUR|dcron}}<br />
* {{AUR|vixie-cron}}<br />
<br />
== Configuration ==<br />
<br />
=== Activation and autostart ===<br />
<br />
After installation, the daemon will not be enabled by default. The installed package likely provides a service, which can be controlled by [[systemd#Using units|systemctl]]. For example, to start and enable ''cronie'':<br />
<br />
# systemctl start cronie<br />
# systemctl enable cronie<br />
<br />
Check {{ic|/etc/cron.daily/}} and similar directories to see which jobs are present. Activating cron service will trigger all of them.<br />
<br />
{{Note|''cronie'' provides the {{ic|0anacron}} ''hourly'' job, which allows for [[#Asynchronous job processing|delayed runs of other jobs]] e.g. if the computer was switched off at the moment of standard execution.}}<br />
<br />
=== Handling errors of jobs ===<br />
<br />
cron registers the output from ''stdout'' and ''stderr'' and attempts to send it as email to the user's spools via the {{ic|sendmail}} command. Cronie disables mail output if {{ic|/usr/bin/sendmail}} is not found. To log these messages use the {{ic|-m}} option and write a script or install a rudimentary SMTP subsystem.<br />
<br />
# [[Systemd#Editing_provided_unit_files|Edit]] the {{ic|cronie.service}} unit.<br />
# Install {{Pkg|esmtp}}, [[msmtp]], {{Pkg|opensmtpd}} or write a custom script.<br />
<br />
==== Example with msmtp ====<br />
<br />
{{Expansion|How exactly do I ''make sure it detects the new {{ic|sendmail}} command''?}}<br />
<br />
Install {{Pkg|msmtp-mta}} which creates a symbolic link from {{ic|/usr/bin/sendmail}} to {{ic|/usr/bin/msmtp}}. Restart {{ic|cronie}} to make sure it detects the new {{ic|sendmail}} command. You must then provide a way for {{ic|msmtp}} to convert your username into an email address.<br />
<br />
Then either add {{ic|MAILTO}} line to your crontab, like so:<br />
<br />
<nowiki>MAILTO=your@email.com</nowiki><br />
<br />
'''or''' create {{ic|/etc/msmtprc}} and append this line:<br />
<br />
aliases /etc/aliases<br />
<br />
and create {{ic|/etc/aliases}}: <br />
<br />
your_username: your@email.com<br />
# Optional:<br />
default: your@email.com<br />
<br />
Then [[Systemd#Editing_provided_unit_files|modify the configuration]] of ''cronie'' daemon by replacing the {{ic|ExecStart}} command with:<br />
<br />
ExecStart=/usr/bin/crond -n -m '/usr/bin/msmtp -t'<br />
<br />
==== Example with esmtp ====<br />
<br />
Install {{Pkg|esmtp}} and {{Pkg|procmail}}.<br />
<br />
After installation configure the routing:<br />
{{hc|/etc/esmtprc|<br />
identity ''myself''@myisp.com<br />
hostname mail.myisp.com:25<br />
username ''"myself"''<br />
password ''"secret"''<br />
starttls enabled<br />
default<br />
mda "/usr/bin/procmail -d %T"<br />
}}<br />
<br />
Procmail needs root privileges to work in delivery mode but it is not an issue if you are running the cronjobs as root anyway.<br />
<br />
To test that everything works correctly, create a file {{ic|message.txt}} with {{ic|"test message"}} in it. <br />
<br />
From the same directory run:<br />
<br />
$ sendmail ''user_name'' < message.txt <br />
<br />
then:<br />
<br />
$ cat /var/spool/mail/''user_name''<br />
<br />
You should now see the test message and the time and date it was sent.<br />
<br />
The error output of all jobs will now be redirected to {{ic|/var/spool/mail/''user_name''}}.<br />
<br />
Due to the privileged issue, it is hard to create and send emails to root (e.g. {{ic|su -c ""}}). You can ask {{ic|esmtp}} to forward all root's email to an ordinary user with:<br />
{{hc|/etc/esmtprc|<br />
2=force_mda="''user-name''"<br />
}}<br />
<br />
{{Note|If the above test didn't work, you may try creating a local configuration in {{ic|~/.esmtprc}} with the same content.<br />
<br />
Run the following command to make sure it has the correct permission: <br />
<br />
$ chmod 710 ~/.esmtprc<br />
<br />
Then repeat the test with {{ic|message.txt}} exactly as before.}}<br />
<br />
==== Example with opensmtpd ====<br />
<br />
Install {{Pkg|opensmtpd}}.<br />
<br />
Edit {{ic|/etc/smtpd/smtpd.conf}}. The following configuration allows for local delivery:<br />
<br />
listen on localhost<br />
accept for local deliver to mbox<br />
<br />
You can proceed to test it:<br />
# systemctl start smtpd<br />
$ echo test | sendmail user<br />
<br />
''user'' can check his/her mail in with any [[:Category:Email clients|reader]] able to handle mbox format, or just have a look at the file {{ic|/var/spool/mail/''user''}}. If everything goes as expected, you can enable opensmtpd for future boots:<br />
# systemctl enable smtpd<br />
<br />
This approach has the advantage of not sending local cron notifications to a remote server. Not even network connection is needed. On the downside, you need a new daemon running.<br />
<br />
{{Note|<br />
* At the moment of writing the Arch opensmtpd package does not create all needed directories under {{ic|/var/spool/smtpd}}, but the daemon will warn about that specifying the required ownerships and permissions. Just create them as suggested.<br />
* Even though the suggested configuration does not accept remote connections, it's a healthy precaution to add an additional layer of security blocking port 25 with [[iptables]] or similar.<br />
}}<br />
<br />
==== Long cron job ====<br />
<br />
Suppose this program is invoked by cron :<br />
<br />
#!/bin/sh<br />
echo "I had a recoverable error!"<br />
sleep 1h<br />
<br />
What happens is this:<br />
# cron runs the script<br />
# as soon as cron sees some output, it runs your MTA, and provides it with the headers. It leaves the pipe open, because the job hasn't finished and there might be more output.<br />
# the MTA opens the connection to postfix and leaves that connection open while it waits for the rest of the body.<br />
# postfix closes the idle connection after less than an hour and you get an error like this :<br />
smtpmsg='421 … Error: timeout exceeded' errormsg='the server did not accept the mail'<br />
<br />
To solve this problem you can use the command chronic or sponge from {{Pkg|moreutils}}.<br />
From their respective man page:<br />
; chronic: chronic runs a command, and arranges for its standard out and standard error to only be displayed if the command fails (exits nonzero or crashes). If the command succeeds, any extraneous output will be hidden.<br />
; sponge: sponge reads standard input and writes it out to the specified file. Unlike a shell redirect, sponge soaks up all its input before opening the output file… If no output file is specified, sponge outputs to stdout.<br />
<br />
Even if it's not said chronic buffer the command output before opening its standard output (like sponge does).<br />
<br />
== Crontab format ==<br />
<br />
The basic format for a crontab is:<br />
<br />
''minute'' ''hour'' ''day_of_month'' ''month'' ''day_of_week'' ''command''<br />
<br />
* ''minute'' values can be from 0 to 59.<br />
* ''hour'' values can be from 0 to 23.<br />
* ''day_of_month'' values can be from 1 to 31.<br />
* ''month'' values can be from 1 to 12.<br />
* ''day_of_week'' values can be from 0 to 6, with 0 denoting Sunday.<br />
<br />
Multiple times may be specified with a comma, a range can be given with a hyphen, and the asterisk symbol is a wildcard character. Spaces are used to separate fields. For example, the line:<br />
<br />
*0,*5 9-16 * 1-5,9-12 1-5 ~/bin/i_love_cron.sh<br />
<br />
Will execute the script {{ic|i_love_cron.sh}} at five minute intervals from 9 AM to 4:55 PM on weekdays except during the summer months (June, July, and August). More examples and advanced configuration techniques can be found below.<br />
<br />
== Basic commands ==<br />
<br />
Crontabs should never be edited directly; instead, users should use the {{ic|crontab}} program to work with their crontabs. To be granted access to this command, user must be a member of the users group (see the {{ic|gpasswd}} command).<br />
<br />
To view their crontabs, users should issue the command:<br />
<br />
$ crontab -l<br />
<br />
To edit their crontabs, they may use:<br />
<br />
$ crontab -e<br />
<br />
{{Note|By default the {{ic|crontab}} command ueses the {{ic|vi}} editor. To change it, [[environment variable|export]] {{ic|EDITOR}} or {{ic|VISUAL}}, or specify the editor directly: {{ic|1=EDITOR=vim crontab -e}}.}}<br />
<br />
To remove their crontabs, they should use:<br />
<br />
$ crontab -r<br />
<br />
If a user has a saved crontab and would like to completely overwrite their old crontab, he or she should use:<br />
<br />
$ crontab ''saved_crontab_filename''<br />
<br />
To overwrite a crontab from the command line ([[Wikipedia:stdin]]), use<br />
<br />
$ crontab - <br />
<br />
To edit somebody else's crontab, issue the following command as root:<br />
<br />
# crontab -u ''username'' -e<br />
<br />
This same format (appending {{ic|-u ''username''}} to a command) works for listing and deleting crontabs as well.<br />
<br />
== Examples ==<br />
<br />
The entry:<br />
<br />
01 * * * * /bin/echo Hello, world!<br />
<br />
runs the command {{ic|/bin/echo Hello, world!}} on the first minute of every hour of every day of every month (i.e. at 12:01, 1:01, 2:01, etc.).<br />
<br />
Similarly:<br />
<br />
*/5 * * jan mon-fri /bin/echo Hello, world!<br />
<br />
runs the same job every five minutes on weekdays during the month of January (i.e. at 12:00, 12:05, 12:10, etc.).<br />
<br />
The line (as noted in "man 5 crontab"):<br />
<br />
*0,*5 9-16 * 1-5,9-12 1-5 /home/user/bin/i_love_cron.sh<br />
<br />
will execute the script {{Ic|i_love_cron.sh}} at five minute intervals from 9 AM to 5 PM (excluding 5 PM itself) every weekday (Mon-Fri) of every month except during the summer (June, July, and August).<br />
<br />
Periodical settings can also be entered as in this crontab template:<br />
<br />
<pre># Chronological table of program loadings <br />
# Edit with "crontab" for proper functionality, "man 5 crontab" for formatting<br />
# User: johndoe<br />
<br />
# mm hh DD MM W /path/progam [--option]... ( W = weekday: 0-6 [Sun=0] )<br />
21 01 * * * /usr/bin/systemctl hibernate<br />
@weekly $HOME/.local/bin/trash-empty<br />
</pre><br />
<br />
== Default editor ==<br />
<br />
To use an alternate default editor, define the {{ic|EDITOR}} environment variable in a shell initialization script as described in [[Environment variables]].<br />
<br />
As a regular user, {{ic|su}} will need to be used instead of {{ic|sudo}} for the environment variable to be pulled correctly:<br />
<br />
$ su -c "crontab -e"<br />
<br />
To have an alias to this {{ic|printf}} is required to carry the arbitrary string because {{ic|su}} launches in a new shell:<br />
<br />
alias scron="su -c $(printf "%q " "crontab -e")"<br />
<br />
== run-parts issue ==<br />
<br />
cronie uses {{ic|run-parts}} to carry out script in {{ic|cron.daily}}/{{ic|cron.weekly}}/{{ic|cron.monthly}}. Be careful that the script name in these won't include a dot (.), e.g. {{ic|backup.sh}}, since {{ic|run-parts}} without options will ignore them (see: {{ic|man run-parts}}).<br />
<br />
== Running X.org server-based applications ==<br />
<br />
Cron does not run under the X.org server therefore it cannot know the environmental variable necessary to be able to start an X.org server application so they will have to be defined. One can use a program like {{AUR|xuserrun}} to do it:<br />
<br />
17 02 * ... /usr/bin/xuserrun /usr/bin/xclock<br />
<br />
Or then can be defined manually ({{ic|echo $DISPLAY}} will give the current DISPLAY value):<br />
<br />
17 02 * ... env DISPLAY=:0 /usr/bin/xclock<br />
<br />
If done through say SSH, permission will need be given:<br />
<br />
# xhost +si:localuser:$(whoami)<br />
<br />
== Asynchronous job processing ==<br />
<br />
If you regularly turn off your computer but do not want to miss jobs, there are some solutions available (easiest to hardest):<br />
<br />
=== Cronie ===<br />
{{Pkg|cronie}} comes with anacron included.<br />
The project homepage reads:<br />
<br />
Cronie contains the standard UNIX daemon crond that runs specified programs at scheduled times and related tools.<br />
It is based on the original cron and has security and configuration enhancements like the ability to use pam and SELinux.<br />
<br />
=== Dcron ===<br />
<br />
Vanilla {{AUR|dcron}} supports asynchronous job processing. Just put it with @hourly, @daily, @weekly or @monthly with a jobname, like this:<br />
<br />
@hourly ID=greatest_ever_job echo This job is very useful.<br />
<br />
=== Cronwhip ===<br />
<br />
{{AUR|cronwhip}} is a script to automatically run missed cron jobs; it works with the former default cron implementation, ''dcron''.<br />
See also the [https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=57973 forum thread].<br />
<br />
=== Anacron ===<br />
Anacron is a full replacement for ''dcron'' which processes jobs asynchronously.<br />
<br />
It is provided by {{Pkg|cronie}}. The configuration file is {{ic|/etc/anacrontab}}. Information on the format can be found in the {{ic|anacrontab(5)}} [[man page]]. Running {{ic|anacron -T}} will test {{ic|/etc/anacrontab}} for validity.<br />
<br />
=== Fcron ===<br />
<br />
Like ''anacron'', {{Pkg|fcron}} assumes the computer is not always running and, unlike ''anacron'', it can schedule events at intervals shorter than a single day which may be useful for systems which suspend/hibernate regularly (such as a laptop). Like cronwhip, fcron can run jobs that should have been run during the computer's downtime.<br />
<br />
When replacing {{Pkg|cronie}} with fcron be aware the spool directory is {{ic|/var/spool/fcron}} and the {{ic|fcrontab}} command is used instead of ''crontab'' to edit the user crontabs. These crontabs are stored in a binary format with the text version next to them as ''foo''.orig in the spool directory. Any scripts which manually edit user crontabs may need to be adjusted due to this difference in behavior.<br />
<br />
A quick scriptlet which may aide in converting traditional user crontabs to fcron format:<br />
<br />
{{bc|<br />
cd /var/spool/cron && (<br />
for ctab in *; do<br />
fcrontab ${ctab} -u ${ctab}<br />
done<br />
)<br />
}}<br />
<br />
See also the [https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=140497 forum thread].<br />
<br />
== Ensuring exclusivity ==<br />
<br />
If you run potentially long-running jobs (e.g., a backup might all of a sudden run for a long time, because of many changes or a particular slow network connection), then {{AUR|lockrun}} can ensure that the cron job won't start a second time.<br />
<br />
5,35 * * * * /usr/bin/lockrun -n /tmp/lock.backup /root/make-backup.sh<br />
<br />
== cronie ==<br />
<br />
Long time users of vixie-cron (traditional cron) will be confused by how cronie is set up. Here is the relevant file hierarchy:<br />
<br />
/etc<br />
|----- anacrontab<br />
|----- cron.d<br />
| ----- 0hourly<br />
|----- cron.daily<br />
|----- cron.deny<br />
|----- cron.hourly<br />
|----- cron.monthly<br />
|----- cron.weekly<br />
|----- crontab<br />
<br />
<br />
Note that crontab is empty by default, but jobs added here will be run if you wish to use this file. Cronie provides both cron and anacron functionality. The difference is that cron will run jobs at particular time intervals (down to a granularity of one minute) ''if the machine is on at the particular time specified'', while anacron runs jobs (with a minimum daily granularity) without assuming that the machine is turned on all the time. When the machine is on, anacron will check to see if there are any jobs that ''should have been run'' and will run them accordingly. The {{ic|/etc/cron.d}} and {{ic|/etc/cron.hourly}} directories are associated with '''cron''' functionality, while the {{ic|/etc/anacrontab}} file and {{ic|/etc/cron.daily}}, {{ic|/etc/cron.weekly}}, and {{ic|/etc/cron.monthly}} directories are associated with '''anacron''' functionality. The {{ic|/etc/cron.deny}} file is there so that any user who is not specifically prohibited can create their own cron jobs.<br />
<br />
To implement a system-wide cron job, create a crontab-like file for it and place it in the {{ic|/etc/cron.d}} directory or add the job to /etc/crontab. Any executable in <br />
{{ic|/etc/cron.hourly}} will be run every hour.<br />
<br />
Anacron functionality is implemented similarly, however using the {{ic|/etc/cron.daily}}, {{ic|/etc/cron.weekly}}, or {{ic|/etc/cron.monthly}} directories, depending on how frequently you want the job to be run.<br />
<br />
== Dcron ==<br />
<br />
The cron daemon parses a configuration file known as {{ic|crontab}}. Each user on the system can maintain a separate crontab file to schedule commands individually. The root user's crontab is used to schedule system-wide tasks (though users may opt to use {{ic|/etc/crontab}} or the {{ic|/etc/cron.d}} directory, depending on which cron implementation they choose).<br />
<br />
{{hc|/var/spool/cron/root<br />
|2=<nowiki><br />
# Run command at a scheduled time<br />
# Edit this 'crontab -e' for error checking, man 1 crontab for acceptable format<br />
<br />
# <@freq> <tags and command><br />
@hourly ID=sys-hourly /usr/sbin/run-cron /etc/cron.hourly<br />
@daily ID=sys-daily /usr/sbin/run-cron /etc/cron.daily<br />
@weekly ID=sys-weekly /usr/sbin/run-cron /etc/cron.weekly<br />
@monthly ID=sys-monthly /usr/sbin/run-cron /etc/cron.monthly<br />
<br />
# mm hh DD MM W /path/command (or tags) # W = week: 0-6, Sun=0<br />
21 01 * * * /usr/bin/systemctl suspend<br />
</nowiki>}}<br />
<br />
These lines exemplify one of the formats that crontab entries can have, namely whitespace-separated fields specifying:<br />
<br />
# @period<br />
# ID=jobname (this tag is specific to dcron)<br />
# command<br />
<br />
The other standard format for crontab entries is:<br />
<br />
# minute<br />
# hour<br />
# day<br />
# month<br />
# day of week<br />
# command<br />
<br />
The crontab files themselves are usually stored as {{ic|/var/spool/cron/username}}. For example, root's crontab is found at {{ic|/var/spool/cron/root}}<br />
<br />
See the crontab [[man page]] for further information and configuration examples.<br />
<br />
== See also ==<br />
<br />
* [http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/cron-guide.xml Gentoo Linux Cron Guide]</div>Margali