Talk:Installation guide

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Read this first before adding new suggestions

  • systemd tools such as hostnamectl, timedatectl and localectl do not work in the installation chroot environment, so please do not propose to use them in the guide unless you can prove that they have been made to work also in that case. See [1], [2], [3] and [4] for some past discussions about this issue.
  • localectl list-keymaps does not work due to bug FS#46725. For the chosen replacement command, see [5].
  • localhost must be set explicitely in /etc/hosts, as it is otherwise resolved over the network. See FS#56684.

-- The ArchWiki Administrators 22:17, 2 September 2016 (UTC)

pacman-key --populate

[Moved from Talk:Beginners' guide. -- Alad (talk) 20:38, 12 July 2016 (UTC)]

Reference: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Beginners%27_guide&diff=next&oldid=411670 I tried to install Archlinux on my new computer and got stuck. Only using the pacman-key --populate archlinux helped me. I think I am not the only one having this problem. But why did you undo it? —This unsigned comment is by Sandstorm (talk) 20:38, 12 December 2015‎. Please sign your posts with ~~~~!

This command is already run for the new system (by installation of archlinux-keyring), so running it by hand shouldn't be required for most users. Of course, things can go wrong (how old was the ISO you used to install the system?), but that belongs in Troubleshooting sections of the respective articles, which are linked at the beginning of the guide. -- Alad (talk) 19:52, 12 December 2015 (UTC)
I had downloaded the ISO just yesterday, minutes before the install. Only that command installed the keys. Probably I should open a bug if you can confirm the issue?
Did you have to run pacman-key after, or before pacstrap? And do you recall what the error messages said exactly? (See also FS#31286) -- Alad (talk) 20:15, 12 December 2015 (UTC)
I had to run after pacstrap. As far as I remember, pacstrap stopped after trying to download the keys. The error message was something like shown in this forum post: https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=165367
Well then, as you suggested, I'd open a bug report. -- Alad (talk) 20:34, 12 December 2015 (UTC)
Done. Could you check if the description is good. I could not find an appropriate category, so I though Packages:Core might be the closest one. https://bugs.archlinux.org/task/47351 --Sandstorm (talk) 20:48, 12 December 2015 (UTC)
Thanks, the description looks OK. If the category e.a is not right, User:Scimmia should fix it. :P -- Alad (talk) 13:59, 13 December 2015 (UTC)
Hmm, looks like it was closed with "Works for me" ... not very enlightening. All I can suggest is to further improve on Pacman/Package signing and related articles, and recheck if they're accessible enough from the Beginners' guide. -- Alad (talk) 21:59, 12 February 2016 (UTC)

Switch to systemd-networkd

Next ISOs may use systemd-networkd instead of dhcpcd, see [6] -- Alad (talk) 10:26, 19 July 2016 (UTC)

Include hint at top of page for install.txt

Inform users that a copy of the installation guide can be found in ~/install.txt on the live CD.

This would be incredibly helpful for users who potentially don't have access to two computers at the same time. —This unsigned comment is by Cheeseypi (talk) 23:33, 13 November 2017‎. Please sign your posts with ~~~~!

install.txt is not a real copy in the sense that all wiki links are missing, and those without two computers can simply switch ttys to elinks as is described in Installation_guide#Pre-installation (throughout the guide, a working internet connection is assumed). -- Alad (talk) 07:57, 14 November 2017 (UTC)

Link to the German version

Instead of de:Arch Install Scripts you could choose de:Anleitung für Einsteiger it means "Beginner's Guid" and is a very detailed artikel for very new arch users and the future experts.

Thank you, done. -- Kynikos (talk) 16:31, 6 February 2018 (UTC)
This was already proposed last year and rejected: [7]. I don't see what has changed since then. If someone adds me as admin to the german wiki or changes the protection settings, I can update de:Arch Install Scripts as required. -- Alad (talk) 18:13, 6 February 2018 (UTC)
I see, I didn't remember that discussion so I've reverted the change, hopefully you'll make it to update the translation, let's leave this open until the problem is solved, otherwise this kind of suggestion will keep appearing recurrently. -- Kynikos (talk) 17:53, 7 February 2018 (UTC)

Adding a reference to the multi-boot page

Hello. First of all, I want to thanks all the maintainers of this page. I started to use arch in 2011, and felt in love with this distro. I definitively consider that this page is the entry point to archlinux, and as such, it's a really important page. About 1 year ago when I install arch on a friend PC, I thought, that some stuff should be clarified, but I didn't had the expertise to do so. Today, I discovered that my wishes became true! So thanks to all of you.

I think that a link to dual boot with windows should be added in the mount section, since I think that dual booting is a common use-case. I didn't tested if this is required, but I assume that sharing the EFI partition between all your OS is a good thing. —This unsigned comment is by Robin moussu (talk) 22:41, 1 May 2018‎. Please sign your posts with ~~~~!

Hi, thanks for the good feedback! :) Dual boot with Windows is already linked from Category:Getting and installing Arch#Installation methods, which is in turn linked from Installation guide#Pre-installation and therefore assumed to have been read by newcomers, so there's no need for a direct shortcut from this article. I'll close this talk, thank you for sharing your idea though! -- Kynikos (talk) 14:38, 3 May 2018 (UTC)

Suggest a method to generate a useful mirrorlist

It took me a while to figure out a procedure for me to do in order to generate a mirrorlist, and it was probably the most time-consuming part of the initial install for me. It could be helpful to guide new users to use the tools on the live USB to do generate this file, and it could even benefit older users who do a different method. I'm proposing we add it to the Installation Guide, as I feel it's most relevant there, but I'll gladly take any input on a relevant spot. The setup is as follows:

1) after configuring a network connection, open elinks, and go to https://archlinux.org/mirrorlist to generate a mirrorlist according to the options you want. Save the generated file to your filesystem. 2) Uncomment all of the "Server" lines in this new file, and rename the default mirrorlist. use rankmirrors /path/to/source >> /etc/pacman.d/mirrorlist to create the mirrorlist.

It would be written differently, of course, but it may be helpful to the community, and i wanted to get some thoughts on it before doing it. Arinlares (talk) 23:26, 16 May 2018 (UTC)

The guide links to the Mirrors page where you can find all details. Going to https://archlinux.org/mirrorlist is not necessary and not the only way to get a useful mirrorlist. -- Lahwaacz (talk) 06:46, 17 May 2018 (UTC)
Agreed, the link to Mirrors is enough, closed. -- Kynikos (talk) 15:50, 20 May 2018 (UTC)
@Arinlares maybe you could add your suggestion as a Tip to Mirrors#Fetching_and_ranking_a_live_mirror_list since elinks is better suited than typing long commands in the installation environment. -- Alad (talk) 16:48, 20 May 2018 (UTC)

Network configuration

The newly installed environment has no network connection activated by default. See Network configuration#Network management.
For Wireless configuration, install the iw and wpa_supplicant packages, as well as needed firmware packages. Optionally install dialog for usage of wifi-menu.

The Network configuration section is rubbish. It doesn't explain that wifi-menu is part of netctl and telling users to install both iw and wpa_supplicant is plainly wrong. I would replace it with a DRY "See Network configuration." but maintainers aren't trusted to edit the Installation guide. --Larivact (talk) 17:09, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

If maintainers go on the talk page and plainly state "this section is rubbish" while indicating they would push their change without discussion, then no, I wouldn't trust maintainers with editing this central article. -- Alad (talk) 21:09, 18 May 2018 (UTC)
I would agree linking appropriate article would suit more than current section, given deprecation of Beginners' Guide for similar reasons.
It is not that maintainers aren't trusted, but that MediaWiki doesn't allow specifying what user groups can perform edits, the choice is only among all, only auto-confirmed or only admins [8], plus we need to discuss edits to central wiki articles beforehand anyway [9]. -- Svito (talk) 20:03, 18 May 2018 (UTC)
I've wanted to create additional groups for a while now (should be simple with LocalSettings.php published). Anyone interested should be able to write a patch and send it to the admins. -- Alad (talk) 21:09, 18 May 2018 (UTC)
Indeed "rubbish" wasn't a very wise choice of a word, a lot of volunteer effort has been put to get to the current state of the wiki, of course everything can always be improved.
In particular, the history of that section basically is Beginners' guide#Network configuration > [10] > [11].
I'd be in favor of simply restoring a similar state to [12], i.e. I'd link Network configuration but also Wireless network configuration directly, and drop the rest of the details.
-- Kynikos (talk) 16:19, 20 May 2018 (UTC)
[13] With the recent changes to Network configuration article, we may make similar changes to Installation guide#Connect to the Internet. Even a specific link to Wireless network configuration should no longer be required, since you need to follow Network configuration#DHCP anyway and Wireless is linked from Network configuration#Setup. Proposed wording:
The installation image enables the dhcpcd daemon on boot for wired network devices. The connection may be checked with:
# ping archlinux.org
If no connection is available, stop the dhcpcd service:
# systemctl stop dhcpcd@<TAB>
Proceed with instructions in Network configuration.
If that's a bit too short we might expand the ping(8) example, compare expansion template in Network_configuration#Ping. --Alad (talk) 16:38, 20 May 2018 (UTC)
I actually prefer the current style with the systemctl example, using the ic template and a spelled-out instruction to press Tab. I don't see the need to expand further on ping directly in this page.
On a second thought with respect to my previous post, I'm fine with dropping direct links to Wireless network configuration and only point to Network configuration as proposed in OP, i.e. also in Installation guide#Network configuration (I think we should be consistent between the two network-configuration sections).
Another idea, we could merge Installation guide#Hostname into Installation guide#Network configuration now, since Hostname lands in Network configuration anyway, and even if that section is moved to DNS configuration, it's still all network setup.
-- Kynikos (talk) 15:08, 21 May 2018 (UTC)
I've removed the Wireless network configuration link from both sections. As it stands it cannot be used independently of Network configuration anyway. It's the devil or the blue sea - when configuring a simple wireless connection, users have to wade through pages of possibly unrelated information in Network configuration or be confused by missing steps in Wireless network configuration. Sometimes I believe that things would be much easier if our user base didn't value "choice" as much.
About the systemctl example, after all this time I'm still not sure on the Tab instructions. We never finished the relevant discussion in Help_talk:Reading and the steps to fill in (choosing the right ethernet adapter, tab-completing it and pressing return) are not necessarily obvious.
About Installation guide#Hostname, I'm fine with moving this section under Installation guide#Network configuration. -- Alad (talk) 23:22, 25 May 2018 (UTC)

boot

the boot loader section is outdated with UEFI. nowadays an UEFI firmware can boot arch directly via EFISTUB. if the firmware boot manager is not good enough a boot manager like rEFInd can be used. to have better menu selection, autodection of bootable partitions resp operating systems. --Soloturn (talk) 09:41, 19 May 2018 (UTC)

It's not outdated because it makes a single reference to Category:Boot loaders. -- Alad (talk) 13:12, 19 May 2018 (UTC)
I checked and the category contains a valid reference to EFISTUB. No idea what article/guide you were looking at but it's not this one. -- Alad (talk) 14:13, 19 May 2018 (UTC)

Why should a static IP be preferred over 127.0.1.1 in /etc/hosts?

"If the system has a permanent IP address, it should be used instead of 127.0.1.1."

I think the ArchWiki should not just say do X but also why. Alad as you added this, perhaps you can explain?--Larivact (talk) 15:14, 21 May 2018 (UTC)

In Network_configuration#Local hostname resolution: "For a system with a permanent IP address, that permanent IP address should be used instead of 127.0.1.1." -- Lahwaacz (talk) 06:48, 22 May 2018 (UTC)
First appearance in our wiki, cited source, also discussion. -- Kynikos (talk) 10:26, 22 May 2018 (UTC)