Difference between revisions of "Talk:Getting and installing Arch"

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(MBR+EFI multi boot: re)
(Merge and rewrite: address changes Svito tried out)
 
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== <s>RAID 5</s> ==
 
 
I'd like to add an install guide for installation to USB key /boot and RAID5 /root.  How can I go about doing that?
 
 
I'd be happy to create a page and send the link to someone for linking into the general "How To" area.
 
 
Thanks! {{Unsigned|20:10, 2 September 2009‎|TomB17}}
 
 
 
== Checksums/Windows ==
 
== Checksums/Windows ==
  
 
We removed checksums with [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Beginners%27_guide&diff=366400&oldid=366378]; concerning the last argument, it seems you can use ''powershell'' for checksums on Windows, see [https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/Fedora/22/html/Installation_Guide/sect-verifying-images.html Fedora Installation]. A possible candidate for the See also section, then again Fedora uses a different signing mechanism (the CHECKSUM file is signed, instead of the ISO). -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 08:31, 15 October 2015 (UTC)
 
We removed checksums with [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Beginners%27_guide&diff=366400&oldid=366378]; concerning the last argument, it seems you can use ''powershell'' for checksums on Windows, see [https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/Fedora/22/html/Installation_Guide/sect-verifying-images.html Fedora Installation]. A possible candidate for the See also section, then again Fedora uses a different signing mechanism (the CHECKSUM file is signed, instead of the ISO). -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 08:31, 15 October 2015 (UTC)
  
:Um yeah, at Fedora they sign the checksums, so that powershell "script" isn't gonna work for us, hence linking to it from See also wouldn't be very helpful for a Windows user. The script shouldn't be hard to adapt though, it should be enough to tell to replace "$expected_checksum" with a paste of the checksum from our download page, also changing the function to either MD5 or SHA1 because we don't provide the SHA256 currently. I don't know if it's worth to expand [[:Category:Getting and installing Arch#Verify signature]] in this direction. — [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 08:36, 16 October 2015 (UTC)
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:Um yeah, at Fedora they sign the checksums, so that powershell "script" isn't gonna work for us, hence linking to it from See also wouldn't be very helpful for a Windows user. The script shouldn't be hard to adapt though, it should be enough to tell to replace "$expected_checksum" with a paste of the checksum from our download page, also changing the function to either MD5 or SHA1 because we don't provide the SHA256 currently. I don't know if it's worth to expand [[Getting and installing Arch#Verify signature]] in this direction. — [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 08:36, 16 October 2015 (UTC)
  
 
::Alternatively, we could link to [https://www.gpg4win.org/ gpg4win] and (for OSX) [https://gpgtools.org/ gpgtools] -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 21:35, 1 August 2016 (UTC)
 
::Alternatively, we could link to [https://www.gpg4win.org/ gpg4win] and (for OSX) [https://gpgtools.org/ gpgtools] -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 21:35, 1 August 2016 (UTC)
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:What is the bootloader that you talk about? Maybe the info belongs on its page. -- [[User:Lahwaacz|Lahwaacz]] ([[User talk:Lahwaacz|talk]]) 14:13, 2 October 2017 (UTC)
 
:What is the bootloader that you talk about? Maybe the info belongs on its page. -- [[User:Lahwaacz|Lahwaacz]] ([[User talk:Lahwaacz|talk]]) 14:13, 2 October 2017 (UTC)
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::I'm talking about [[GRUB]] which, as you can see, assumes your system is already well installed and functional for you to install a bootloader. However, I guess it's possible that this doesn't concern every grub installation, hence scarsity of documentation. [[User:Lo1|Lo1]] ([[User talk:Lo1|talk]]) 15:01, 2 October 2017 (UTC)lo1
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:::The [[GRUB#UEFI_systems]] already contains this note: "When installing to use UEFI it is important to start the install with your machine in UEFI mode. The Arch Linux install media must be UEFI bootable." which is very related to your problem. Considering that GRUB is the only [[boot loader]] that supports both BIOS and UEFI systems, I'd say that info really does not belong anywhere else.
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:::Anyway, what exactly do you mean by "multi boot installation"?
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:::-- [[User:Lahwaacz|Lahwaacz]] ([[User talk:Lahwaacz|talk]]) 15:12, 2 October 2017 (UTC)
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::::Right about that, just it doesn't explain that actually pressing a few buttons before getting started may prevent real headaches. I wrote about it in the forum [https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=230258]. By "multi boot" i meant dual boot, sorry for my poor writing. Editing after some time, the reason i wanted to add that note is not intended for those who want to install using UEFI, but for those who may consider the option to use a MBR even if their machine has a UEFI firmware. [[User:Lo1|Lo1]] ([[User talk:Lo1|talk]]) 15:21, 2 October 2017 (UTC)lo1
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:::::Still, please consider improving the [[GRUB]] page instead of adding the note here. -- [[User:Lahwaacz|Lahwaacz]] ([[User talk:Lahwaacz|talk]]) 18:33, 25 October 2017 (UTC)
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== Merge and rewrite ==
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''[Moved from [[Talk:Installation guide#Stop misusing categories]]. -- [[User:Larivact|Larivact]] ([[User talk:Larivact|talk]]) 14:40, 27 September 2018 (UTC)]''
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Also [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Getting_and_installing_Arch&diff=543776&oldid=543736]. I've tried to think of some meaningful reason against this merge, but I can't think of any. Feel free to suggest otherwise. -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 14:45, 26 September 2018 (UTC)
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:I'm fine with merging but I dislike the current form of [[Getting and installing Arch]]. Particularly the large notes and the wide table. I'll try to come up with a draft. --[[User:Larivact|Larivact]] ([[User talk:Larivact|talk]]) 15:12, 26 September 2018 (UTC)
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::I like the proposed list format in [[User:Larivact/drafts/Getting and installing Arch 1]]. Not sure on using "Note:" without [[Template:Note]], if you don't want the blue frame I guess you should use some different term like "Keep in mind", or a summarizing sentence. If length is the main issue, a better approach might be to check if all the content is actually required. -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 12:35, 27 September 2018 (UTC)
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::Something like [[Template:Important]] would also fit here... but we don't have it. -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 12:37, 27 September 2018 (UTC)
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:::Yeah the blue frame bothers me. I created a new draft that splits the ''Installation methods'' section and uses definition lists: [[User:Larivact/drafts/Getting and installing Arch]], what do you think of it? --[[User:Larivact|Larivact]] ([[User talk:Larivact|talk]]) 14:43, 27 September 2018 (UTC)
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::::''[Moved to [[Help talk:Template#Template colors]] -- [[User:Svito|Svito]] ([[User talk:Svito|talk]]) 18:08, 27 September 2018 (UTC)]''
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::::Ad the changes Svito tried out. [[Special:Diff/544309]]: Grouping ''Special installation methods'' under ''Installation medium'' doesn't make sense and I don't think a supersection for the other two sections is necessary. [[Special:Diff/544310]]: I also initially had that order but decided against it because the ''Installation environments'' section contains instructions on how to boot, which belong after the download section. --[[User:Larivact|Larivact]] ([[User talk:Larivact|talk]]) 04:30, 28 September 2018 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 04:30, 28 September 2018

Checksums/Windows

We removed checksums with [1]; concerning the last argument, it seems you can use powershell for checksums on Windows, see Fedora Installation. A possible candidate for the See also section, then again Fedora uses a different signing mechanism (the CHECKSUM file is signed, instead of the ISO). -- Alad (talk) 08:31, 15 October 2015 (UTC)

Um yeah, at Fedora they sign the checksums, so that powershell "script" isn't gonna work for us, hence linking to it from See also wouldn't be very helpful for a Windows user. The script shouldn't be hard to adapt though, it should be enough to tell to replace "$expected_checksum" with a paste of the checksum from our download page, also changing the function to either MD5 or SHA1 because we don't provide the SHA256 currently. I don't know if it's worth to expand Getting and installing Arch#Verify signature in this direction. — Kynikos (talk) 08:36, 16 October 2015 (UTC)
Alternatively, we could link to gpg4win and (for OSX) gpgtools -- Alad (talk) 21:35, 1 August 2016 (UTC)

MBR+EFI multi boot

Under the section "Installation methods", there are some useful notes intended for new arch linux users. I'd like to add :

If you opt for a multi boot installation using MBR partition table but your PC is UEFI-enabled, remember to boot the USB live in legacy mode to prevent issues with the bootloader.

As suggested, this note may be too specific and belongs to Unified_Extensible_Firmware_Interface, still I think it's better to add it in this category anyway, since other notes concern how to boot the live usb properly and are useful for newbies (plus, that reminder would have personally saved me some hard times trying to get a bootloader properly working and Installation_guide wasn't helpful to find proper documentation). I strongly recommend to specify it in non-specialized wiki. You got any suggestion to make this reminder more appropriate? Lo1 (talk) 13:59, 2 October 2017 (UTC)lo1

What is the bootloader that you talk about? Maybe the info belongs on its page. -- Lahwaacz (talk) 14:13, 2 October 2017 (UTC)
I'm talking about GRUB which, as you can see, assumes your system is already well installed and functional for you to install a bootloader. However, I guess it's possible that this doesn't concern every grub installation, hence scarsity of documentation. Lo1 (talk) 15:01, 2 October 2017 (UTC)lo1
The GRUB#UEFI_systems already contains this note: "When installing to use UEFI it is important to start the install with your machine in UEFI mode. The Arch Linux install media must be UEFI bootable." which is very related to your problem. Considering that GRUB is the only boot loader that supports both BIOS and UEFI systems, I'd say that info really does not belong anywhere else.
Anyway, what exactly do you mean by "multi boot installation"?
-- Lahwaacz (talk) 15:12, 2 October 2017 (UTC)
Right about that, just it doesn't explain that actually pressing a few buttons before getting started may prevent real headaches. I wrote about it in the forum [2]. By "multi boot" i meant dual boot, sorry for my poor writing. Editing after some time, the reason i wanted to add that note is not intended for those who want to install using UEFI, but for those who may consider the option to use a MBR even if their machine has a UEFI firmware. Lo1 (talk) 15:21, 2 October 2017 (UTC)lo1
Still, please consider improving the GRUB page instead of adding the note here. -- Lahwaacz (talk) 18:33, 25 October 2017 (UTC)

Merge and rewrite

[Moved from Talk:Installation guide#Stop misusing categories. -- Larivact (talk) 14:40, 27 September 2018 (UTC)]

Also [3]. I've tried to think of some meaningful reason against this merge, but I can't think of any. Feel free to suggest otherwise. -- Alad (talk) 14:45, 26 September 2018 (UTC)

I'm fine with merging but I dislike the current form of Getting and installing Arch. Particularly the large notes and the wide table. I'll try to come up with a draft. --Larivact (talk) 15:12, 26 September 2018 (UTC)
I like the proposed list format in User:Larivact/drafts/Getting and installing Arch 1. Not sure on using "Note:" without Template:Note, if you don't want the blue frame I guess you should use some different term like "Keep in mind", or a summarizing sentence. If length is the main issue, a better approach might be to check if all the content is actually required. -- Alad (talk) 12:35, 27 September 2018 (UTC)
Something like Template:Important would also fit here... but we don't have it. -- Alad (talk) 12:37, 27 September 2018 (UTC)
Yeah the blue frame bothers me. I created a new draft that splits the Installation methods section and uses definition lists: User:Larivact/drafts/Getting and installing Arch, what do you think of it? --Larivact (talk) 14:43, 27 September 2018 (UTC)
[Moved to Help talk:Template#Template colors -- Svito (talk) 18:08, 27 September 2018 (UTC)]
Ad the changes Svito tried out. Special:Diff/544309: Grouping Special installation methods under Installation medium doesn't make sense and I don't think a supersection for the other two sections is necessary. Special:Diff/544310: I also initially had that order but decided against it because the Installation environments section contains instructions on how to boot, which belong after the download section. --Larivact (talk) 04:30, 28 September 2018 (UTC)