Difference between revisions of "Help talk:Style/Formatting and punctuation"

From ArchWiki
Jump to: navigation, search
(First instances: first instances)
(Reference links before or after punctuation marks?: re)
 
(175 intermediate revisions by 18 users not shown)
Line 1: Line 1:
==General indications==
+
__TOC__
''[Split from a longer discussion: [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Help_talk%3AStyle%2FFormatting_and_Punctuation&diff=261275&oldid=261123]. -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 15:23, 5 June 2013 (UTC)]''
 
  
I am personally against any formatting at all, at least where it can be avoided. IMHO, if we want formatting in articles to be meaningful and helpful for readers, it is necessary to completely deprecate it's usage except limited list of well-defined cases. Such lists would obviously tend to change, but at least this would help to prevent counterintuitiveness and inconsistency. --[[User:AlexanderR|AlexanderR]] 20:45, 3 February 2012 (EST)
+
== Dealing with long lines within code block text ==
  
:I think what AlexanderR wrote here is very important: the style rules that will derive from this talk page will have to be a <u>white list</u> of (very) <u>specific</u> cases that require formatting, like in "all text is to be left without formatting except for the following cases: ...". -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 13:26, 4 June 2013 (UTC)
+
I'd like to get some input and, hopefully, a resolution to the issue of long lines within code block text boxes; even on this Help page the long lines of code or comments within code block text boxes are not constrained within the text box.  Perhaps a horizontal scroll bar can be used to expose the long lines of text within the text box instead of simply allowing the text to span past the width of the text box. This will prove especially useful with the exponential growth in usage of mobile browsers and devices.
  
::We could also mention [[Wikipedia:Manual of Style]] in the guide and only integrate it (or override, if really necessary) where needed. -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 07:03, 6 June 2013 (UTC)
+
[[User:ILMostro|ILMostro]] ([[User talk:ILMostro|talk]]) 17:55, 31 March 2014 (UTC)
  
=== Bold ===
+
:Desktop version of Firefox shows the horizontal scrollbar when needed. Mobile webkit-based browsers don't show the scrollbar, but "swiping" the code box actually scrolls the box.
{{Box||''The b element represents a span of text offset from its surrounding content without conveying any extra emphasis or importance, and for which the conventional typographic presentation is bold text; for example, keywords in a document abstract, or product names in a review.''<br>&ndash; {{Press-entry|author=W3C HTML5 draft (CVS version)|title=b – offset text conventionally styled in bold|source=dev.w3.org|date=2012-02-01|uri=http://dev.w3.org/html5/markup/b.html}}}}
+
:Optimization for mobile devices is another issue; but yes - browsing wiki pages on mobile webkit browsers sucks, mostly because of [https://mailman.archlinux.org/pipermail/arch-general/2013-December/034569.html].
 +
:-- [[User:Lahwaacz|Lahwaacz]] ([[User talk:Lahwaacz|talk]]) 18:28, 31 March 2014 (UTC)
  
<s>With respect to this Wiki specificity (and taking into account various precedents) I propose to limit usage of bold text to:</s> --[[User:AlexanderR|AlexanderR]] 19:44, 31 January 2012 (EST)
+
::Horizontal scroll bars are already enabled for code blocks [https://projects.archlinux.org/vhosts/wiki.archlinux.org.git/tree/skins/archlinux/arch.css#n7], this is indeed a problem with mobile webkit browsers, not limited to MediaWiki, for example I can't properly see long lines of code on github.com either (no horizontal scroll bar either).
 +
::Anyway, if somebody's aware of a CSS fix for that, it should be submitted to MediaWiki's bug tracker.
 +
::-- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 00:49, 2 April 2014 (UTC)
  
=== Italic ===
+
== Reference links before or after punctuation marks? ==
{{Box||''The i element represents a span of text offset from its surrounding content without conveying any extra emphasis or importance, and for which the conventional typographic presentation is italic text; for example, a taxonomic designation, a technical term, an idiomatic phrase from another language, a thought, or a ship name.''<br>&ndash; {{Press-entry|author=W3C HTML5 draft (CVS version)|title=i – offset text conventionally styled in italic|source=dev.w3.org|date=2012-02-01|uri=http://dev.w3.org/html5/markup/i.html}}}}
 
  
<s>I already noticed two kinds of italic usage in this Wiki, conventional enough to be proposed for this role (I am so lazy.. please add examples yourself if you want):</s> --[[User:AlexanderR|AlexanderR]] 19:44, 31 January 2012 (EST)
+
I was about to revert [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=PKGBUILD&diff=next&oldid=354351], but I have not found any rule about it in our guidelines, so I'm proposing to add one.
  
=== Underlining ===
+
Basically, reference links are not part of the sentence, so they should be put ''after'' punctuation marks like period or comma. There should be no space between the punctuation mark and the reference link. This style is widely used on [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style#Punctuation_and_footnotes|Wikipedia]] and apparently also [http://graphicdesign.stackexchange.com/a/15343 Chicago Manual Of Style].
{{Box||''The u element represents a span of text with an unarticulated, though explicitly rendered, non-textual annotation, such as labeling the text as being a proper name in Chinese text (a Chinese proper name mark), or labeling the text as being misspelt.<br><br>In most cases, another element is likely to be more appropriate: for marking stress emphasis, the em element should be used; for marking key words or phrases either the b element or the mark element should be used, depending on the context; for marking book titles, the cite element should be used; for labeling text with explicit textual annotations, the ruby element should be used; for labeling ship names in Western texts, the i element should be used.''<br>&ndash; {{Press-entry|author=WHATWG|title=HTML Standard|source=WHATWG HTML5 draft|date=2012-02-04|uri=http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#the-u-element}}}}
 
  
As far as I know underlining is used relatively rarely in this Wiki. The only use case I can imagine is using in place of bold (e.g. for highlighting single words and sentences without pulling them out of context). If we decide to deprecate direct usage of bold text in order to fully utilize it for technical purposes, such replacement would be suitable. --[[User:AlexanderR|AlexanderR]] 20:45, 3 February 2012 (EST)
+
-- [[User:Lahwaacz|Lahwaacz]] ([[User talk:Lahwaacz|talk]]) 08:39, 30 December 2014 (UTC)
  
:Following [[Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Text formatting#How not to apply emphasis]] I would deprecate any use of <u>underlining</u>. -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 07:33, 6 June 2013 (UTC)
+
:Fine with me, although I just recall using reference links in a sentence the other day, which I (obviously) found appropriate usage as well.[https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Network_configuration&diff=352654&oldid=352629] Further, if we are going to introduce "reference link" as a term, it should be noted as a case in [[Help:Style#Hypertext_metaphor]] as well (close to the indirect links bullet). --[[User:Indigo|Indigo]] ([[User talk:Indigo|talk]]) 19:35, 30 December 2014 (UTC)
  
=== Quoting and double quoting ===
+
::Well quoting the linked manual of style:
Quoting belongs to punctuation rather than formatting, so there is nothing to discuss. --[[User:AlexanderR|AlexanderR]] 20:45, 3 February 2012 (EST)
+
:::''The superior numerals used for note reference numbers in the text should follow any punctuation marks except the dash, which they precede. The numbers should also be placed outside closing parentheses.''
:Now the discussion also includes punctuation :) -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 11:51, 4 June 2013 (UTC)
+
::So as I understand it, it can be "part of the sentence", just after the respective punctuation (though you wouldn't put a {{ic|1=,}} between the references.) -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 19:56, 30 December 2014 (UTC)
  
===Alternative approach===
+
:::Good point, sometimes links are part of the sentence, for example in "...as can be found in [42]." or "...for example [43], [44] and [45]." it does not make sense to place the link after the period. On Wikipedia though, where the reference links are formatted as superscript, you would not find it being part of a sentence anywhere. If we keep formatting reference links as normal-size text, I believe the editors should be free to choose if the reference link will be part of a sentence or not.
We could define our own basic (or ''simple'', following Arch's philosophy) rules for italics and bold, and derive all the use cases from them. Citing AlexanderR in [[#Inline templates]], I would find it quite natural to use '''bold''' to "attract additional users attention" and ''italic'' to "offset text from its surrounding content".
+
:::I would define a reference link as a link without an anchor text (which implies that reference link must be of the syntax {{ic|[''full_url'']}}) and the rule would apply only to reference links that are not part of the sentence. -- [[User:Lahwaacz|Lahwaacz]] ([[User talk:Lahwaacz|talk]]) 20:08, 30 December 2014 (UTC)
  
Once these two cases are defined, all the specific uses should come quite naturally, for example [[#Executables names (as executables in file system, not in command line)]] and [[#Pseudo-variables]] would be in italic, [[#"not"]] and [[#Important part of file/command line contents]] would be in bold. Under these simple rules, I would even be in favour of using italic for [[#Single file names]].
+
::::In [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=PKGBUILD&diff=next&oldid=354351]'s case, I'd prefer the link to be after the period too, and I agree with the observations that have been brought here.
 +
::::Just a quickly-thought idea, we could specify that the rule "would apply only to reference links that are not" ''grammatically'' "part of the sentence".
 +
::::-- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 10:10, 31 December 2014 (UTC)
  
In this case I would reserve the use of [[Template:ic]] only for:
+
:::::I like that idea a lot. In my view it would, however, rule out the frequently used "...for example [43], [44] and [45]." cases, because the link count substitution ([43],...) does not make any of them a grammatic part of the sentence. My personal rule of thumb is that the reader should not be required to hover over the link in order to see where it leads out to. Arguably the "for example" does hint enough in this example what the links will lead to. For the wiki here that should be enough; we're using external links in a different manner than wikipedia and the cases they are used in an academic (aka "Chicago") style is very seldom.
* ''Complete'' commands, e.g. "run {{ic|grep Ignore /etc/pacman.conf}} using the ''grep'' utility"
+
:::::I now think we should skip this and leave it up to the editors how they want to present the references. Just make sure we don't end up with bogus sentences like "If [46] is [[Start|started]] with default configuration [47], the journal will show [48]." --[[User:Indigo|Indigo]] ([[User talk:Indigo|talk]]) 11:10, 16 January 2015 (UTC)
* Full file paths
 
* Content that can be read or written on a file, e.g. "add {{ic|bind '"\e[A": history-search-backward'}} to your ''.bashrc'' file" or "check that the ''GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT'' variable in {{ic|/etc/default/grub}} is set to {{ic|"quiet splash"}}, thus making the whole line of the ''grub'' file be {{ic|1=GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="quiet splash"}}"
 
* In general when it can ''make sense'' to copy-paste the ic'ed text in a terminal or a text editor (i.e. when there can be a ''realistic'' reason for doing it)
 
* Keyboard keys, see [[Help talk:Style/Migration to new Code formatting templates#Template:Keypress]]
 
  
Note however that basically I'm brainstorming, there are probably many aspects that I've overlooked with this reasoning, so please go on and comment!
+
::::::Draft for [[Help:Style/Formatting and punctuation#Links]]:
 +
::::::* A numbered external link that does not have a grammatical function should appear at the end of the sentence that it supports, immediately ''after'' a punctuation mark that terminates the sentence, unless such mark is a dash or a parenthesis, in which case the link shall be inserted immediately ''before'' it.
 +
::::::— [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 10:23, 3 June 2017 (UTC)
  
(EDIT:Comment '''only''' on the two "basic" definitions defined in the first paragraph; the rest of the post is only used to give an idea of what the consequences would be. To comment each specific case, just reply to one of the sections below or create a new one)
+
:::::::Well, after a couple of years, I've actually got used to the option #3 below, which is about the most common style in academic papers. See also [https://tex.stackexchange.com/questions/34414/should-you-put-citations-before-or-after-interpunction this question] and the two answers, and [https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/1751/where-does-the-period-go-in-an-mla-in-text-citation this question] with the same result even for non-numeric references. I should also correct my original reference to the [http://graphicdesign.stackexchange.com/a/15343 Chicago Manual Of Style], which in that snippet talks only about superscripts, which is entirely different beast. -- [[User:Lahwaacz|Lahwaacz]] ([[User talk:Lahwaacz|talk]]) 11:28, 3 June 2017 (UTC)
  
-- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 07:31, 6 June 2013 (UTC) (Last edit: 14:38, 6 June 2013 (UTC))
+
::::::::I think I've almost always used option #2 here instead, but I don't really mind as long as we agree on a common style. Your proposal would also simplify the wording:
 +
::::::::* A numbered external link that does not have a grammatical function should appear at the end of the sentence that it supports, separated from the last word by one space, and immediately ''before'' a punctuation mark that terminates the sentence. For example:
 +
:::::::::* Lorem ipsum [https://www.archlinux.org], dolor sit (amet consectetur [https://www.archlinux.org]) adipiscing elit [https://www.archlinux.org].
 +
:::::::::Multiple references, still without grammatical function, should be joined without spaces, for example:
 +
:::::::::* Lorem ipsum [https://www.archlinux.org][https://www.archlinux.org], dolor sit (amet consectetur [https://www.archlinux.org][https://www.archlinux.org]) adipiscing elit [https://www.archlinux.org][https://www.archlinux.org].
 +
:::::::::Note that numbered links are automatically enclosed in brackets, so there is no need to further enclose them in parentheses, for example ([https://www.archlinux.org]).
 +
:::::::::Numbered links that have a grammatical function should be treated like regular words, following the same punctuation conventions, for example:
 +
:::::::::* Lorem ipsum, as reported in [https://www.archlinux.org]'s last paragraph, dolor sit amet consectetur adipiscing elit, see also [https://www.archlinux.org], [https://www.archlinux.org] and [https://www.archlinux.org].
 +
::::::::— [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 06:21, 4 June 2017 (UTC)
  
:Any comments on this? Anybody else with some opinion on these issues? The problem is that it's difficult to make decisions here since I and [[User:Flu|Flu]] do not agree on everything, so any additional point of view will be highly appreciated ^^ -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 13:17, 10 June 2013 (UTC)
+
=== Positioning of numbered external links ===
  
==Formatting cases==
+
''[Moved from [[Help talk:Style#Positioning of numbered external links]] — [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 10:02, 3 June 2017 (UTC)]''
  
===Simple file names===
+
# Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. [http://example.com/]
(Highly questionable)
+
# Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit.[http://example.com/]
 +
# Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit [http://example.com/].
 +
# Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit, [http://example.com/].
 +
# Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit, see [http://example.com/].
  
:search for '''loop.ko''' in {{Ic|/lib/modules/''kernel_release''}}
+
I have seen all of these. I prefer #1. #2 looks clinched, #3 and #4 look weird.
 +
While #5 improves the reading flow it is superfluous.
  
--[[User:AlexanderR|AlexanderR]] 19:44, 31 January 2012 (EST)
+
Proposed convention:
  
:<s>It seems I raised the problem again:</s>
+
* Numbered external links should be put after the relevant sentence or term separated by a space.
:I second AlexanderR <s>choices, also the first</s> point (between {{ic|fstab}} and '''fstab''' the latter is better-looking), plus the package name (once Pkg template has been used the first time). I bring to bear witness [[Core_Utilities]] article which is quiet good-looking, I think, also using lynx. -- [[User:Flu|Flu]] ([[User talk:Flu|talk]]) 16:10, 2 June 2013 (UTC)
 
  
::I'm against bold in this case, consistency is more important than aesthetics, so we should use the same formatting for both full-path file names and short (single) file names. I'm in favour of using [[Template:ic]] for filesystem paths and file names.
+
[[User:Larivact|Larivact]] ([[User talk:Larivact|talk]]) 05:18, 2 June 2017 (UTC)
:::search for {{Ic|loop.ko}} in {{Ic|/lib/modules/''kernel_release''}}
 
:: -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 05:57, 6 June 2013 (UTC)
 
:::good point, changed my mind, +1 -- [[User:Flu|Flu]] ([[User talk:Flu|talk]]) 21:07, 6 June 2013 (UTC)
 
::::Eheh sorry but now it's me who's changed his mind :) For coherence with executable names I propose using ''italic'':
 
  
::::* "Edit ''resolv.conf'', substituting your name servers' IP addresses and your local domain name:" ([[Beginners' Guide]])
+
== <s>Styling configuration paths</s> ==
::::* "Before installing, you may want to edit the ''mirrorlist'' file and place your preferred mirror first." ([[Beginners' Guide]])
 
::::* "For kernel modules to load during boot, place a ''*.conf'' file in {{ic|/etc/modules-load.d/}}, with a name based on the program that uses them." ([[Beginners' Guide]])
 
::::* "Create a ''refind_linux.conf'' file with the kernel parameters to be used by rEFInd:" ([[Beginners' Guide]])
 
  
::::I guess also device names should fall here:
+
Not sure you can understand what I mean from the heading so I'll give an example. I edited [[Cinnamon#Manage_languages_used_in_Cinnamon]] recently and added the third bullet. So I opted for bolding the configuration path, but I see in the article there are cases of using {{ic|ic}} ([[Cinnamon#Themes_and_icons]]), or using italics like in [[Cinnamon#Screenshot]]. So, what's the preferred way if any? I personally have a preference of using bold with the symbol {{ic|>}}. --[[User:Maevius|Maevius]] ([[User talk:Maevius|talk]]) 19:01, 29 May 2016 (UTC)
  
::::* "Each partition is identified with a number suffix. For example, ''sda1'' specifies the first partition of the first drive, while ''sda'' designates the entire drive." ([[Beginners' Guide]])
+
:We try to stick to ''Italics'' with ">" to separate the menu points, see the examples (last bullet) here: [[Help:Style/Formatting and punctuation#GUI.2FTUI text]]
 +
:edit: if you think it is worthwhile to change that style rule, we can discuss it here. You probably prefer to bold it, because it is easier to distinguish than italics. Likely other editors chose {{ic|ic}} for a similar reason. An alternative I can suggest here, is that you make the menu path go to a new line, e.g.
 +
:*To change the keyboard layout, navigate to:
 +
:::''System Settings > Hardware > Keyboard > Layouts''
 +
:which will also make it stand out more. Workable like this?
 +
:--[[User:Indigo|Indigo]] ([[User talk:Indigo|talk]]) 19:10, 29 May 2016 (UTC)
  
::::Also include extensions:
+
::No follow-up, closing. -- [[User:Lahwaacz|Lahwaacz]] ([[User talk:Lahwaacz|talk]]) 16:41, 2 June 2017 (UTC)
  
::::* "Pacman is written in the C programming language and uses the ''.pkg.tar.xz'' package format." ([[Pacman]])
+
== Orphan brake line tag? ==
  
::::-- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 04:18, 26 June 2013 (UTC)
+
Hi, all!
 +
I'm new to contributing in ArchWiki but I'm not quite familiar with wikitext... I'll try not to make many or serious errors!
 +
Is the "<nowiki><br></nowiki>" tag inside the first item of the first list of the article orphan, or do I miss something...?
  
=== Executable/application names===
+
P.S. I see now my message has a different formating from the rest of the messages in the page... Hows that...?
'''javaws''', which is in {{Pkg|icedtea-web-java7}}
+
{{Unsigned|10:46, 1 December 2016|Fragos.george}}
  
{{Box YELLOW|Clarification required:|should executable names be highlighted always, at first encounter or under other rules?}}
+
:The usage of {{ic|<nowiki><br></nowiki>}} in [[Help:Style/Formatting and punctuation#General rules]] is explained in the last line in [[Help:Style#HTML tags]], basically it's used to add a line break without breaking the list.
 +
:As for your ''different formatting'', see [[Help:Editing#Code]]. -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 11:09, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
  
--[[User:AlexanderR|AlexanderR]] 19:44, 31 January 2012 (EST)
+
::Just in case by "orphan" OP meant that the tag is not closed, &lt;br> is an empty tag in HTML, and it takes no end tag. — [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 11:50, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
  
:An interesting case from [[Installation Guide]]:
+
:::Why not make it valid XHTML and use {{ic|<nowiki><br/></nowiki>}}? -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 11:55, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
:*Uncomment the selected locale in {{ic|/etc/locale.gen}} and generate it with {{ic|locale-gen}}
 
:I guess technically {{ic|locale-gen}} would stay formatted that way, since it would be the same as writing:
 
:*Uncomment the selected locale in {{ic|/etc/locale.gen}} and generate it executing {{ic|locale-gen}}
 
:If however for instance the sentence changed very slightly to:
 
:*Uncomment the selected locale in {{ic|/etc/locale.gen}} and generate it with the {{ic|locale-gen}} utility
 
:Following AlexanderR's way it should become:
 
:*Uncomment the selected locale in {{ic|/etc/locale.gen}} and generate it with the '''locale-gen''' utility
 
:And with [[#Alternative approach]] it should become:
 
:*Uncomment the selected locale in {{ic|/etc/locale.gen}} and generate it with the ''locale-gen'' utility
 
:-- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 14:32, 10 June 2013 (UTC)
 
  
::I suggest using ''italic'', and only for full lower-case names:
+
::::Are you proposing to add a generic style rule (e.g. "always self-close void html tags"), or would you only change the tags in this article? In the former case [[Help:Style#HTML tags]] is the right place, I think I'd be in favor, but then I wouldn't start a campaign to mass-edit the tags in the articles... In the latter case, without a style rule I think it would not make a real difference, since the two syntaxes are well supported by the vast majority of modern browsers anyway. — [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 10:36, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
  
::* "You can also use ''iwconfig'' and see which interfaces are not wireless:" ([[Beginners' Guide]])
+
:::::I added the [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Help:Style&curid=11478&diff=458313&oldid=456514 new style rule] with an explicit {{ic|<nowiki><br/></nowiki>}} example. While mass editing tags would not be the most productive thing to do, maybe [[ArchWiki:Bots|bots]] could update them when making other changes to articles? -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 10:08, 3 December 2016 (UTC)
::* "As of v197, ''udev'' no longer assigns network interface names according to the ''wlanX'' and ''ethX'' naming scheme." ([[Beginners' Guide]])
 
::* "The Arch Linux install media includes the following partitioning tools: ''fdisk'', ''gdisk'', ''cfdisk'', ''cgdisk'', ''parted''." ([[Beginners' Guide]])
 
::* "This article deals with so-called ''core'' utilities on a GNU/Linux system, such as ''less'', ''ls'', and ''grep''." ([[Core Utilities]])
 
  
::Note that this rule would apply to executables when they represent the application/file itself, not when used in [[#CLI lines]]. In particular pay attention to executables that are usually run without any arguments:
+
::::::Well yes, bots could do it indeed. — [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 16:03, 3 December 2016 (UTC)
  
::* "You can use {{ic|lsblk}} to help with this." ([[Beginners' Guide]])
+
::::{{ic|<nowiki><br></nowiki>}} is valid HTML5. We serve HTML5 at Arch Wiki, so the XHTML argument is invalid. {{ic|<nowiki><br /></nowiki>}} is accepted as well in HTML5, but is not better in any way than {{ic|<nowiki><br></nowiki>}}, so it makes no sense to let a bot change all of these. See http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1946426/html-5-is-it-br-br-or-br for more information. (edit: to clarify: I think the rule should not be there and we should remove it) [[User:Lonaowna|Lonaowna]] ([[User talk:Lonaowna|talk]]) 14:01, 3 December 2016 (UTC)
::* "If pacman fails to verify your packages, check the system time with {{ic|cal}}." ([[Beginners' Guide]])
 
::* "Set a root password with {{ic|passwd}}." ([[Installation Guide]])
 
  
::-- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 03:31, 26 June 2013 (UTC)
+
:::::Just like with any other style rule, the purpose of this one would not be to improve the functionality or compatibility with browsers or standards, but more simply to resolve possible editing disputes by stating what is the preferred way to write html tags, and also to have a more consistent source text in general. Usually I do tend to prefer self-closed tags (when I pay attention to that detail, which wasn't clearly the case when I wrote this article :P ), however if more users think that this rule is too strict, when compared to the other ones, we can always just fall back on [[Help:Style#Coding style]]. — [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 16:03, 3 December 2016 (UTC)
  
===Repository names===
+
::::::I too think the self-closed style looks better, but I think it is too unimportant to make a rule about. It makes no difference in how the reader experiences the page, both options are technically valid, and the rule only creates extra work for the editors. It also makes the [[Help:Style]] page needlessly longer. The longer it is, the less people will read, honour and memorise it. I really don't see why we should enforce one or the other.  [[User:Lonaowna|Lonaowna]] ([[User talk:Lonaowna|talk]]) 16:33, 3 December 2016 (UTC)
Currently the [repository] form seems the most frequent, however note the problem of brackets in links, e.g. {{ic|<nowiki>[[#.5Bcommunity.5D|[community]]]</nowiki>}} in the intro of [[AUR]]. The ''repository'' form (italic) can be an alternative, what do you think? -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 04:29, 26 June 2013 (UTC)
 
  
===Package and group names===
+
:::::::I agree this is too specific to make an explicit rule over. After all, we're not trying to compete with [[w:Wikipedia:Manual of style]]. -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 17:52, 3 December 2016 (UTC)
Use italic for package and package-group names. -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 04:41, 26 June 2013 (UTC)
 
  
===Daemons/services, kernel modules===
+
::::::::How about replacing the usage of {{ic|<nowiki><br></nowiki>}} with a template ([[Template:\n]]) which would insert it instead. We could get rid of the special rule for br (and also the one I added) and the page would be shorter than before I edited it. [[Help:Editing#Line breaks]] and maybe others would need adjusting, but it should not make them longer. -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 09:44, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
ensure that '''radeonfb''' is blacklisted
 
  
--[[User:AlexanderR|AlexanderR]] 19:44, 31 January 2012 (EST)
+
::::::::I rolled back the changes to [[Help:Style]]. Any thoughts about the [[Template:\n]] idea? -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 15:12, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
  
:I'd use ''italic'' in these cases (of course only when the name represents the service/module itself, not when used in [[#CLI lines]]):
+
:::::::::I see, however we're still 2 for and 2 against the new style rule :)
 +
:::::::::Regarding [[Template:\n]], I'm against instead because it feels too complicated, and it would look a bit incoherent to me if a style rule about void tags syntax was rejected because unimportant, but then we passed one to enforce replacing &lt;br> tags altogether. — [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 10:16, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
  
:* "The ''dhcpcd'' network daemon starts automatically during boot" ([[Beginners' Guide]])
+
::::::::::I'm still for the new style rule, it just seemed ''wrong'' to have it sitting there while someone so strongly objects to it. If the '''for''' side wins we can undo the rollback.
 +
::::::::::About [[Template:\n]], I thought that having a template would be preferable to using plain HTML. -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 10:31, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
  
:-- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 04:07, 26 June 2013 (UTC)
+
:::::::::::Wikipedia has [[w:Template:break|Template:break]] for this purpose, but it's not just a stupid wrapper around &lt;br> since their Lua module allowed the implementation of the "count" parameter. They also have many similar [[w:Category:Wikipedia_XHTML_tag-replacing_templates|templates to replace XHTML tags]], but most of them are not simple wrappers. Some are convenient shortcuts, some involve Lua programming, and some are there just for consistency. If we want to go the same way (except for Lua obviously), I'd say the "consistency templates" like a &lt;br> wrapper should be created last and not induce the creation of the more complex templates. -- [[User:Lahwaacz|Lahwaacz]] ([[User talk:Lahwaacz|talk]]) 15:00, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
  
===Configuration parameters, variables, options, properties...===
+
::::::::::::So, which of the other templates do we ''need''? -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 15:44, 10 December 2016 (UTC)
Use monospace ([[Template:ic]]):
 
 
 
* "By default, the keyboard layout is set to {{ic|us}}." ([[Beginners' Guide]])
 
* "...where ''layout'' can be {{ic|fr}}, {{ic|uk}}, {{ic|dvorak}}, {{ic|be-latin1}}, etc." ([[Beginners' Guide]])
 
* "As of v197, ''udev'' no longer assigns network interface names according to the {{ic|wlanX}} and {{ic|ethX}} naming scheme." ([[Beginners' Guide]])
 
* "In this example, the Ethernet interface is {{ic|enp2s0f0}}." ([[Beginners' Guide]])
 
* "If you are unsure, your Ethernet interface is likely to start with the letter "e", and unlikely to be {{ic|lo}} or start with the letter "w"." ([[Beginners' Guide]])
 
* "Currently, you may include a maximum of three {{ic|nameserver}} lines." ([[Beginners' Guide]])
 
* "you will need to create an extra [[GRUB#GUID Partition Table (GPT) specific instructions|BIOS Boot Partition]] of size 1007 KiB and {{ic|EF02}} type code." ([[Beginners' Guide]])
 
* "All files should have {{ic|644}} permissions and {{ic|root:root}} ownership." ([[systemd]])
 
 
 
Also include command options:
 
 
 
* "The {{ic|-i}} switch can be omitted if you wish to install every package from the {{Grp|base}} group without prompting." ([[Beginners' Guide]])
 
 
 
...and user groups:
 
 
 
* "Adding your user to [[Users and Groups|groups]] ({{ic|sys}}, {{ic|disk}}, {{ic|lp}}, {{ic|network}}, {{ic|video}}, {{ic|audio}}, {{ic|optical}}, {{ic|storage}}, {{ic|scanner}}, {{ic|power}}, etc.) is '''not''' necessary for most use cases with systemd." ([[systemd]])
 
 
 
Plus environment variables:
 
 
 
* "If you are behind a proxy server, you will need to export the {{ic|http_proxy}} and {{ic|ftp_proxy}}environment variables." ([[Beginners' Guide]])
 
* "To use other locales for other {{ic|LC_*}} variables, run {{ic|locale}} to see the available options and add them to ''locale.conf''. It is not recommended to set the {{ic|LC_ALL}} variable. An advanced example can be found [[Locale#Setting_system-wide_locale|here]]." ([[Beginners' Guide]])
 
 
 
...and variables in general:
 
 
 
* "this roughly equates to what you included in the {{ic|DAEMONS}} array." ([[systemd]])
 
 
 
-- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 04:20, 26 June 2013 (UTC)
 
 
 
===CLI lines===
 
Use [[Template:ic]]. Must be inline command examples, not a simple mention of an executable name (see [[#Executable/application names]]). Also console output and text that may reasonably be useful to paste in a terminal.
 
 
 
* "you are encouraged to type {{ic|man ''command''}} to read the ''man'' page of any command" ([[Beginners' Guide]])
 
* "You can use the command {{ic|ip link}} to discover the names of your interfaces." ([[Beginners' Guide]])
 
* "If you get a {{ic|ping: unknown host}} error, first check if there is an issue with your cable or wireless signal strength." ([[Beginners' Guide]])
 
* "Type {{ic|yes}} and choose ''Quit'' (or press {{ic|Q}}) to exit without making any more changes." ([[Beginners' Guide]])
 
 
 
No prompt symbol is to be represented in inline code: if needed, permission notes must be added explicitly, like in "Execute {{ic|pacman -Syu}} with root privileges", '''not''' "Execute {{ic|# pacman -Syu}}".
 
 
 
-- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 05:03, 26 June 2013 (UTC)
 
 
 
===File content===
 
Use [[Template:ic]] for content that can be both read or written on a file or that may reasonably be useful to copy from or paste in a text editor:
 
 
 
* "At the end of the string type {{ic|nomodeset}} and press {{ic|Enter}}. Alternatively, try {{ic|1=video=SVIDEO-1:d}} which, if it works, will not disable kernel mode setting." ([[Beginners' Guide]])
 
* "remove the {{ic|#}} in front of the [http://www.greendesktiny.com/support/knowledgebase_detail.php?ref=EUH-483 locale] you want from {{ic|/etc/locale.gen}}" ([[Beginners' Guide]])
 
* "Please choose the {{ic|UTF-8}} entry." ([[Beginners' Guide]]) (could be grouped in [[#Technical terms]] instead)
 
 
 
-- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 04:25, 26 June 2013 (UTC)
 
 
 
===Full file system paths===
 
Use [[Template:ic]]:
 
 
 
* "To test if you have booted into UEFI mode check if directory {{ic|/sys/firmware/efi}} has been created" ([[Beginners' Guide]])
 
* "All files and directories appear under the root directory {{ic|/}}, even if they are stored on different physical devices." ([[Partitioning]])
 
 
 
-- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 04:25, 26 June 2013 (UTC)
 
 
 
===Keyboard keys===
 
Use [[Template:ic]], see [[Help talk:Style/Migration to new Code formatting templates#Template:Keypress]]:
 
 
 
* "you have to press a key (usually {{ic|Delete}}, {{ic|F1}}, {{ic|F2}}, {{ic|F11}} or {{ic|F12}}) during the POST" ([[Beginners' Guide]])
 
 
 
-- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 04:25, 26 June 2013 (UTC)
 
 
 
===Important part of file/command line contents===
 
{{bc|1=root=/dev/sda6 ro 5 radeon.modeset=1 '''vga=current''' logo.nologo quiet splash}}
 
 
 
--[[User:AlexanderR|AlexanderR]] 19:44, 31 January 2012 (EST)
 
 
 
:This one can be acceptable. -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] 17:58, 3 February 2012 (EST)
 
 
 
::Since these contents are code themselves, when referenced outside of the template, [[Template:ic]] should be preserved, as opposed to [[#Pseudo-variables]]:
 
:::{{bc|# ln -s /usr/src/linux-'''$(uname -r)'''/include/generated/uapi/linux/version.h /usr/src/linux-'''$(uname -r)'''/include/linux/}}
 
:::You can replace '''{{ic|$(uname -r)}}''' with any kernel not currently running." ([[VMware]])
 
::-- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 03:53, 26 June 2013 (UTC)
 
 
 
===Pseudo-variables===
 
I don't know if we should use bold or what else when using pseudo-variables like:
 
 
 
{{bc|# modprobe '''module_name'''}}
 
 
 
{{bc|# modprobe ''module_name''}}
 
 
 
{{bc|# modprobe <module_name>}}
 
 
 
{{bc|# modprobe [MODULE_NAME]}}
 
 
 
(from [[Kernel Modules]]). -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] 17:58, 3 February 2012 (EST)
 
 
 
:This conflicts with "important part of file/command line contents" part. As I said below, italic seems to be more appropriate.
 
:''Probably worse idea than just italic'': Another proposal &ndash;
 
:{{bc|# modprobe <''module_name''>}}
 
:This way pseudo-variables become highlighted and offset from surrounding text at the same time but in different way than "important part". --[[User:AlexanderR|AlexanderR]] 20:45, 3 February 2012 (EST)
 
 
 
::I prefer:
 
::{{bc|# modprobe ''module_name''}}
 
::-- [[User:Flu|Flu]] ([[User talk:Flu|talk]]) 15:20, 2 June 2013 (UTC)
 
 
 
:::+1 (plain italic). -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 06:08, 6 June 2013 (UTC)
 
 
 
::::When mentioning the variable outside of the template, it should drop [[Template:ic]]:
 
::::* "...where ''layout'' can be {{ic|fr}}, {{ic|uk}}, {{ic|dvorak}}, {{ic|be-latin1}}, etc." ([[Beginners' Guide]])
 
::::-- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 03:34, 26 June 2013 (UTC)
 
 
 
====<s>Inline templates</s>====
 
(IMHO, those with italic formatting look much better than ones with bold formatting):
 
 
 
{{Ic|<nowiki>http://127.0.0.1:8080/index.jsp#</nowiki>''section_name''}}
 
 
 
--[[User:AlexanderR|AlexanderR]] 19:44, 31 January 2012 (EST)
 
 
 
:I don't understand, you'd use always italic inside [[Template:ic]] regardless of the content? In that case I don't even like it aesthetically :) -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] 17:58, 3 February 2012 (EST)
 
 
 
::This is exactly what you name "pseudo-variables" (your wording was better than mine, lets use it). Using bold in this case conflicts with "important part of file/command line contents" part; italic would also be more intuitive: we want to ''offset text from its surrounding content'' rather than attract additional users attention. --[[User:AlexanderR|AlexanderR]] 20:45, 3 February 2012 (EST)
 
 
 
:::Ah ok, then formatting in this case should be coherent with [[#Pseudo-variables]]. -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 07:07, 6 June 2013 (UTC)
 
:::Closing as it duplicates [[#Pseudo-variables]]. -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 04:31, 26 June 2013 (UTC)
 
 
 
===GUI/TUI text===
 
Use ''italic'', for example for menu entries:
 
 
 
* "Then, select ''Boot Arch Linux'' from the menu and press {{ic|Enter}} in order to begin with the installation" ([[Beginners' Guide]])
 
* "When using Gparted, selecting the option to create a new partition table gives an ''msdos'' partition table by default. If you are intending to follow the advice to create a GPT partition table then you need to choose ''Advanced'' and then select ''gpt'' from the drop-down menu." ([[Beginners' Guide]])
 
* "Type {{ic|yes}} and choose ''Quit'' (or press {{ic|Q}}) to exit without making any more changes." ([[Beginners' Guide]])
 
 
 
-- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 04:09, 26 June 2013 (UTC)
 
 
 
===Technical terms===
 
I suggest using ''italic'':
 
 
 
* "you are encouraged to type {{ic|man ''command''}} to read the ''man'' page of any command" ([[Beginners' Guide]])
 
* "This article deals with so-called ''core'' utilities on a GNU/Linux system" ([[Core Utilities]])
 
* "''Primary'' partitions can be bootable and are limited to four partitions per disk or RAID volume." ([[Partitioning]])
 
* "This is already a separate partition by default, by virtue of being mounted as ''tmpfs'' by systemd." ([[Partitioning]])
 
 
 
'''Except''' for all-caps terms (usually acronyms):
 
 
 
* "you have to press a key (usually {{ic|Delete}}, {{ic|F1}}, {{ic|F2}}, {{ic|F11}} or {{ic|F12}}) during the POST (Power On Self-Test) phase" ([[Beginners' Guide]])
 
* "Please choose the UTF-8 entry." ([[Beginners' Guide]]) (could be thought of as part of a line in {{ic|/etc/locale.gen}} and grouped in [[#File content]])
 
 
 
-- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 03:20, 26 June 2013 (UTC)
 
 
 
===Stressed/strong words or statements===
 
'''not''' bold when it is worth -- [[User:Flu|Flu]] ([[User talk:Flu|talk]]) 15:20, 2 June 2013 (UTC)
 
 
 
:I would use italics in this case, see also [[Wikipedia:MOS:text_formatting#Contraindications]] and [[Wikipedia:MOS:text_formatting#Emphasis]].
 
:It would also be great if we could find the right words to define "worth".
 
:-- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 06:12, 6 June 2013 (UTC)
 
::Attempt 1: it is worth when it may lead a user to a dangerous or inefficient choice.
 
::I do not like italic by the way, it is not that evident. -- [[User:Flu|Flu]] ([[User talk:Flu|talk]]) 21:15, 6 June 2013 (UTC)
 
:::So would you see these special '''not'''s as kind of a super-compact [[Template:Warning]]? (as defined in [[Help:Style#Notes, Warnings, Tips]])
 
:::About bold vs italic, I'd support bold if there was agreement over [[#Alternative approach]]: I want to find a solid basic reference from which derive all our text formatting rules, instead of deciding case by case without any kind of global vision of the problem; in this section I proposed to base our rules on Wikipedia's style rules, but now I tend to prefer the definitions that I've exposed in [[#Alternative approach]].
 
:::-- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 14:43, 7 June 2013 (UTC)
 
::::Yes, but a warning does not exclude a not -- [[User:Flu|Flu]] ([[User talk:Flu|talk]]) 10:57, 8 June 2013 (UTC)
 
 
 
:::::So, a general rule could be to use ''italic'' for words whose importance in giving the meaning to a sentence would not be recognized otherwise; usually they would be pronounced in a stressed way if reading out loud:
 
 
 
:::::* "Choose the best environment for ''your'' needs." ([[Beginners' Guide]])
 
:::::* "This command can synchronize the repository databases ''and'' update the system's packages" ([[Pacman]])
 
:::::* "If the screen does ''not'' go blank and the boot process gets stuck" ([[Beginners' Guide]])
 
:::::* "so please type it ''exactly'' as you see it:" ([[Beginners' Guide]])
 
:::::* "If you want, you can make it the ''only'' mirror available by getting rid of everything else" ([[Beginners' Guide]])
 
 
 
:::::When however particular attention is needed, words like "not", "only", "exactly", "strongly", "before"... can be highlighted in '''bold''' (use only when ''really'' needed (or "worth", citing Flu above), though):
 
 
 
:::::* "Partitioning can destroy data. You are '''strongly''' cautioned and advised to backup any critical data before proceeding." ([[Beginners' Guide]])
 
:::::* "keep up to date with changes in Arch Linux that require manual intervention '''before''' upgrading your system." ([[Beginners' Guide]])
 
 
 
:::::The same goes for very important parts of a section that cannot be put in a separate Warning or Note as they are an essential part of the section itself:
 
 
 
:::::* "'''When performing a system update, it is essential that users read all information output by pacman and use common sense.'''" ([[Pacman]])
 
:::::* "This means that partial upgrades are '''not supported'''." ([[Pacman]])
 
 
 
:::::-- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 03:47, 26 June 2013 (UTC)
 
 
 
=== Acronym/abbreviation expansions===
 
I suggest ''italic'':
 
 
 
* "Pacman is the Arch Linux ''pac''kage ''man''ager." ([[Beginners' Guide]])
 
* "[[Wikipedia:cat_(Unix)|cat]] (''catenate'') is a standard Unix utility that concatenates and lists files." ([[Core Utilities]])
 
 
 
-- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 03:46, 26 June 2013 (UTC)
 
 
 
=== Words/letters when referenced as mere "text entities" ===
 
Use quote marks:
 
 
 
* "When however particular attention is needed, words like "not", "only", "exactly", "strongly", "before"... can be highlighted in '''bold'''" ([[#Stressed/strong words or statements]])
 
* "If you are unsure, your Ethernet interface is likely to start with the letter "e", and unlikely to be {{ic|lo}} or start with the letter "w"." ([[Beginners' Guide]])
 
 
 
-- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 04:08, 26 June 2013 (UTC)
 
 
 
=== Generic words used in an improper or questionable way ===
 
Use quote marks:
 
 
 
'Words/letters when referenced as mere "text entities"' (from the section above)
 
 
 
-- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 04:11, 26 June 2013 (UTC)
 
 
 
===Quotations===
 
''All your data belongs to us'' &ndash; Google
 
 
 
--[[User:AlexanderR|AlexanderR]] 19:44, 31 January 2012 (EST)
 
 
 
:...or ''"All your data belongs to us"'' (w/ quotes)? (see e.g. [[Beginners'_Guide#The_Arch_Way]]) -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] 17:58, 3 February 2012 (EST)
 
 
 
::This is matter of punctuation, not formatting. --[[User:AlexanderR|AlexanderR]] 20:45, 3 February 2012 (EST)
 
 
 
:::Both ways seem incoherent with [[Wikipedia:MOSQUOTE#Italics and quotations]]. -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 07:00, 6 June 2013 (UTC)
 
 
 
::::I'd like to follow Wikipedia on this topic, and avoid ''italic'' for quotations: in general, I'd refer to Wikipedia's guidelines, so use quote marks for inline quotations, and {{ic|&lt;blockquote>}} or {{ic|:}} (we'd better choose only one form here) for block quotes, ''without'' italic-izing them.
 
:::::"All your data belongs to us" &ndash; Google
 
:::: -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 03:56, 26 June 2013 (UTC)
 
 
 
==General rules==
 
 
 
===First instances===
 
 
 
The first relevant appearance of a term or name in an article (e.g. executable names) can be highlighted if regarded as worthy of particular attention, considering the topic of the article or the specific section. The first "relevant" appearance may not be the absolute first appearance of the name: its choice is left to the editor.
 
 
 
The preferable way of highlighting the name is using a link to a closely related article in the wiki or to an external page, like Wikipedia; if there are no possible pertinent links, '''bold''' can be used as a fallback solution.
 
 
 
Package and group names should make use of [[Template:Pkg]], [[Template:AUR]] or [[Template:Grp]].
 
 
 
Note that if the name is already introduced by the title of the article or by a section heading, it doesn't require any further highlighting in the article, except in the case of [[#Name/term lists]].
 
 
 
-- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 13:53, 26 June 2013 (UTC)
 
 
 
====Name of application in the beginning of application-related article====
 
'''Foo''' is the most popular Linux alternative to [[Wikipedia:Bar]].
 
 
 
--[[User:AlexanderR|AlexanderR]] 19:44, 31 January 2012 (EST)
 
 
 
:I don't know, usually the name of the application is also the title of the article, so this rule could just add bloat for nothing. I'd recommend to use the first encounter of the app name as an anchor for a link to the official website instead. If there's nothing to link, leave it in normal weight. -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] 17:58, 3 February 2012 (EST)
 
 
 
::>> so this rule could just add bloat for nothing
 
::Maybe, but for some reason cited HTML5 developers, authors of many articles in this Wiki and even https://www.archlinux.org/ webmaster believe this to be "conventional typographic presentation". This, however, does not oblige us to support such case of usage here.
 
::>> I'd recommend to use the first encounter of the app name as an anchor for a link to the official website instead.
 
::This is neither consistent (there is often ''nothing to link'') nor intuitive &ndash; user can not see link destination without hovering cursor over it. As I [[Talk:Common_Applications#Ideas so far|said in discussion on "''See also'' visibility"]], links to Wikipedia article(s), application home page(s), application project(s) on code hostings etc. together with reliable summary are the only reasonable content for [[Writing_Article_Overviews|article summary template]] and should probably be placed in that single predefined place. --[[User:AlexanderR|AlexanderR]] 20:45, 3 February 2012 (EST)
 
 
 
===Links===
 
Whenever any of the above formatting cases can be a link to another article or external page, the link takes precedence over any formatting (which is discarded). -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 04:43, 26 June 2013 (UTC)
 
 
 
===Name/term lists===
 
Keep consistent formatting in lists of executable names, technical terms... even if not all of the items would require to be formatted (e.g. all-caps terms, which shouldn't be italic-ized by themselves, or names in a list where most of the items are formatted according to [[#First instances]]. -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 06:10, 26 June 2013 (UTC)
 

Latest revision as of 06:21, 4 June 2017

Dealing with long lines within code block text

I'd like to get some input and, hopefully, a resolution to the issue of long lines within code block text boxes; even on this Help page the long lines of code or comments within code block text boxes are not constrained within the text box. Perhaps a horizontal scroll bar can be used to expose the long lines of text within the text box instead of simply allowing the text to span past the width of the text box. This will prove especially useful with the exponential growth in usage of mobile browsers and devices.

ILMostro (talk) 17:55, 31 March 2014 (UTC)

Desktop version of Firefox shows the horizontal scrollbar when needed. Mobile webkit-based browsers don't show the scrollbar, but "swiping" the code box actually scrolls the box.
Optimization for mobile devices is another issue; but yes - browsing wiki pages on mobile webkit browsers sucks, mostly because of [1].
-- Lahwaacz (talk) 18:28, 31 March 2014 (UTC)
Horizontal scroll bars are already enabled for code blocks [2], this is indeed a problem with mobile webkit browsers, not limited to MediaWiki, for example I can't properly see long lines of code on github.com either (no horizontal scroll bar either).
Anyway, if somebody's aware of a CSS fix for that, it should be submitted to MediaWiki's bug tracker.
-- Kynikos (talk) 00:49, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

Reference links before or after punctuation marks?

I was about to revert [3], but I have not found any rule about it in our guidelines, so I'm proposing to add one.

Basically, reference links are not part of the sentence, so they should be put after punctuation marks like period or comma. There should be no space between the punctuation mark and the reference link. This style is widely used on Wikipedia and apparently also Chicago Manual Of Style.

-- Lahwaacz (talk) 08:39, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

Fine with me, although I just recall using reference links in a sentence the other day, which I (obviously) found appropriate usage as well.[4] Further, if we are going to introduce "reference link" as a term, it should be noted as a case in Help:Style#Hypertext_metaphor as well (close to the indirect links bullet). --Indigo (talk) 19:35, 30 December 2014 (UTC)
Well quoting the linked manual of style:
The superior numerals used for note reference numbers in the text should follow any punctuation marks except the dash, which they precede. The numbers should also be placed outside closing parentheses.
So as I understand it, it can be "part of the sentence", just after the respective punctuation (though you wouldn't put a , between the references.) -- Alad (talk) 19:56, 30 December 2014 (UTC)
Good point, sometimes links are part of the sentence, for example in "...as can be found in [42]." or "...for example [43], [44] and [45]." it does not make sense to place the link after the period. On Wikipedia though, where the reference links are formatted as superscript, you would not find it being part of a sentence anywhere. If we keep formatting reference links as normal-size text, I believe the editors should be free to choose if the reference link will be part of a sentence or not.
I would define a reference link as a link without an anchor text (which implies that reference link must be of the syntax [full_url]) and the rule would apply only to reference links that are not part of the sentence. -- Lahwaacz (talk) 20:08, 30 December 2014 (UTC)
In [5]'s case, I'd prefer the link to be after the period too, and I agree with the observations that have been brought here.
Just a quickly-thought idea, we could specify that the rule "would apply only to reference links that are not" grammatically "part of the sentence".
-- Kynikos (talk) 10:10, 31 December 2014 (UTC)
I like that idea a lot. In my view it would, however, rule out the frequently used "...for example [43], [44] and [45]." cases, because the link count substitution ([43],...) does not make any of them a grammatic part of the sentence. My personal rule of thumb is that the reader should not be required to hover over the link in order to see where it leads out to. Arguably the "for example" does hint enough in this example what the links will lead to. For the wiki here that should be enough; we're using external links in a different manner than wikipedia and the cases they are used in an academic (aka "Chicago") style is very seldom.
I now think we should skip this and leave it up to the editors how they want to present the references. Just make sure we don't end up with bogus sentences like "If [46] is started with default configuration [47], the journal will show [48]." --Indigo (talk) 11:10, 16 January 2015 (UTC)
Draft for Help:Style/Formatting and punctuation#Links:
  • A numbered external link that does not have a grammatical function should appear at the end of the sentence that it supports, immediately after a punctuation mark that terminates the sentence, unless such mark is a dash or a parenthesis, in which case the link shall be inserted immediately before it.
Kynikos (talk) 10:23, 3 June 2017 (UTC)
Well, after a couple of years, I've actually got used to the option #3 below, which is about the most common style in academic papers. See also this question and the two answers, and this question with the same result even for non-numeric references. I should also correct my original reference to the Chicago Manual Of Style, which in that snippet talks only about superscripts, which is entirely different beast. -- Lahwaacz (talk) 11:28, 3 June 2017 (UTC)
I think I've almost always used option #2 here instead, but I don't really mind as long as we agree on a common style. Your proposal would also simplify the wording:
  • A numbered external link that does not have a grammatical function should appear at the end of the sentence that it supports, separated from the last word by one space, and immediately before a punctuation mark that terminates the sentence. For example:
  • Lorem ipsum [6], dolor sit (amet consectetur [7]) adipiscing elit [8].
Multiple references, still without grammatical function, should be joined without spaces, for example:
Note that numbered links are automatically enclosed in brackets, so there is no need to further enclose them in parentheses, for example ([15]).
Numbered links that have a grammatical function should be treated like regular words, following the same punctuation conventions, for example:
  • Lorem ipsum, as reported in [16]'s last paragraph, dolor sit amet consectetur adipiscing elit, see also [17], [18] and [19].
Kynikos (talk) 06:21, 4 June 2017 (UTC)

Positioning of numbered external links

[Moved from Help talk:Style#Positioning of numbered external links — Kynikos (talk) 10:02, 3 June 2017 (UTC)]

  1. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. [20]
  2. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit.[21]
  3. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit [22].
  4. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit, [23].
  5. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit, see [24].

I have seen all of these. I prefer #1. #2 looks clinched, #3 and #4 look weird. While #5 improves the reading flow it is superfluous.

Proposed convention:

  • Numbered external links should be put after the relevant sentence or term separated by a space.

Larivact (talk) 05:18, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

Styling configuration paths

Not sure you can understand what I mean from the heading so I'll give an example. I edited Cinnamon#Manage_languages_used_in_Cinnamon recently and added the third bullet. So I opted for bolding the configuration path, but I see in the article there are cases of using ic (Cinnamon#Themes_and_icons), or using italics like in Cinnamon#Screenshot. So, what's the preferred way if any? I personally have a preference of using bold with the symbol >. --Maevius (talk) 19:01, 29 May 2016 (UTC)

We try to stick to Italics with ">" to separate the menu points, see the examples (last bullet) here: Help:Style/Formatting and punctuation#GUI.2FTUI text
edit: if you think it is worthwhile to change that style rule, we can discuss it here. You probably prefer to bold it, because it is easier to distinguish than italics. Likely other editors chose ic for a similar reason. An alternative I can suggest here, is that you make the menu path go to a new line, e.g.
  • To change the keyboard layout, navigate to:
System Settings > Hardware > Keyboard > Layouts
which will also make it stand out more. Workable like this?
--Indigo (talk) 19:10, 29 May 2016 (UTC)
No follow-up, closing. -- Lahwaacz (talk) 16:41, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

Orphan brake line tag?

Hi, all! I'm new to contributing in ArchWiki but I'm not quite familiar with wikitext... I'll try not to make many or serious errors! Is the "<br>" tag inside the first item of the first list of the article orphan, or do I miss something...?

P.S. I see now my message has a different formating from the rest of the messages in the page... Hows that...? —This unsigned comment is by Fragos.george (talk) 10:46, 1 December 2016. Please sign your posts with ~~~~!

The usage of <br> in Help:Style/Formatting and punctuation#General rules is explained in the last line in Help:Style#HTML tags, basically it's used to add a line break without breaking the list.
As for your different formatting, see Help:Editing#Code. -- nl6720 (talk) 11:09, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
Just in case by "orphan" OP meant that the tag is not closed, <br> is an empty tag in HTML, and it takes no end tag. — Kynikos (talk) 11:50, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
Why not make it valid XHTML and use <br/>? -- nl6720 (talk) 11:55, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
Are you proposing to add a generic style rule (e.g. "always self-close void html tags"), or would you only change the tags in this article? In the former case Help:Style#HTML tags is the right place, I think I'd be in favor, but then I wouldn't start a campaign to mass-edit the tags in the articles... In the latter case, without a style rule I think it would not make a real difference, since the two syntaxes are well supported by the vast majority of modern browsers anyway. — Kynikos (talk) 10:36, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
I added the new style rule with an explicit <br/> example. While mass editing tags would not be the most productive thing to do, maybe bots could update them when making other changes to articles? -- nl6720 (talk) 10:08, 3 December 2016 (UTC)
Well yes, bots could do it indeed. — Kynikos (talk) 16:03, 3 December 2016 (UTC)
<br> is valid HTML5. We serve HTML5 at Arch Wiki, so the XHTML argument is invalid. <br /> is accepted as well in HTML5, but is not better in any way than <br>, so it makes no sense to let a bot change all of these. See http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1946426/html-5-is-it-br-br-or-br for more information. (edit: to clarify: I think the rule should not be there and we should remove it) Lonaowna (talk) 14:01, 3 December 2016 (UTC)
Just like with any other style rule, the purpose of this one would not be to improve the functionality or compatibility with browsers or standards, but more simply to resolve possible editing disputes by stating what is the preferred way to write html tags, and also to have a more consistent source text in general. Usually I do tend to prefer self-closed tags (when I pay attention to that detail, which wasn't clearly the case when I wrote this article :P ), however if more users think that this rule is too strict, when compared to the other ones, we can always just fall back on Help:Style#Coding style. — Kynikos (talk) 16:03, 3 December 2016 (UTC)
I too think the self-closed style looks better, but I think it is too unimportant to make a rule about. It makes no difference in how the reader experiences the page, both options are technically valid, and the rule only creates extra work for the editors. It also makes the Help:Style page needlessly longer. The longer it is, the less people will read, honour and memorise it. I really don't see why we should enforce one or the other. Lonaowna (talk) 16:33, 3 December 2016 (UTC)
I agree this is too specific to make an explicit rule over. After all, we're not trying to compete with w:Wikipedia:Manual of style. -- Alad (talk) 17:52, 3 December 2016 (UTC)
How about replacing the usage of <br> with a template (Template:\n) which would insert it instead. We could get rid of the special rule for br (and also the one I added) and the page would be shorter than before I edited it. Help:Editing#Line breaks and maybe others would need adjusting, but it should not make them longer. -- nl6720 (talk) 09:44, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
I rolled back the changes to Help:Style. Any thoughts about the Template:\n idea? -- nl6720 (talk) 15:12, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
I see, however we're still 2 for and 2 against the new style rule :)
Regarding Template:\n, I'm against instead because it feels too complicated, and it would look a bit incoherent to me if a style rule about void tags syntax was rejected because unimportant, but then we passed one to enforce replacing <br> tags altogether. — Kynikos (talk) 10:16, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
I'm still for the new style rule, it just seemed wrong to have it sitting there while someone so strongly objects to it. If the for side wins we can undo the rollback.
About Template:\n, I thought that having a template would be preferable to using plain HTML. -- nl6720 (talk) 10:31, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
Wikipedia has Template:break for this purpose, but it's not just a stupid wrapper around <br> since their Lua module allowed the implementation of the "count" parameter. They also have many similar templates to replace XHTML tags, but most of them are not simple wrappers. Some are convenient shortcuts, some involve Lua programming, and some are there just for consistency. If we want to go the same way (except for Lua obviously), I'd say the "consistency templates" like a <br> wrapper should be created last and not induce the creation of the more complex templates. -- Lahwaacz (talk) 15:00, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
So, which of the other templates do we need? -- nl6720 (talk) 15:44, 10 December 2016 (UTC)