Difference between revisions of "Talk:GRUB"

From ArchWiki
Jump to: navigation, search
(Advanced configuration: rm closed discussion)
(Root encryption: new discussion)
Line 94: Line 94:
 
::::::::The note is much cleaner, and the information being put together is perfect for the organization for the article. I agree we need to link to troubleshooting. I was just waiting for the Troubleshooting section to be reworked by me or someone else first.
 
::::::::The note is much cleaner, and the information being put together is perfect for the organization for the article. I agree we need to link to troubleshooting. I was just waiting for the Troubleshooting section to be reworked by me or someone else first.
 
::::::::--[[User:Stevenmw|Stevenmw]] ([[User talk:Stevenmw|talk]]) 12:30, 22 December 2014 (UTC)
 
::::::::--[[User:Stevenmw|Stevenmw]] ([[User talk:Stevenmw|talk]]) 12:30, 22 December 2014 (UTC)
 +
 +
== Root encryption ==
 +
 +
I think [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=GRUB&diff=next&oldid=351856] is just saying the same things of the previous revision but in an unnecessarily more verbose way, I'd like to undo it, maybe leaving the reminder to regenerate grub.cfg, which seems a very common mistake. -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 03:20, 23 December 2014 (UTC)

Revision as of 03:20, 23 December 2014

Alpha sorting for kernel names without versions

When installing the "linux" and "linux-lts" kernels on a basic install, the /etc/grub.d/10_linux in 2.02-beta1 will try and use a numeric-oriented sorting routine that doesn't work well for kernels without any versions in the names of the files. I've submitted a feature request and patch for this upstream:

Forum discussion w/patch:

I solved this (and other problems) long ago… why nobody applied this patch to the Arch package is beyond me. felix (talk) 14:11, 8 August 2014 (UTC)
What is the current sate of this issue? --Stevenmw (talk) 10:56, 6 December 2014 (UTC)
I'd leave this open right now, as it seems a candidate for merging with GRUB/Tips and tricks#Multiple entries. -- Alad (talk) 19:36, 22 December 2014 (UTC)

Suggested changes

This section should be used to discuss reasons behind suggested changes to the GRUB article. I'm slowly going through the discussions on the page. My goal is to address any concerns in these discussions and get them closed. Once closed, we can address all concerns relating to the article as it exists now and the current state of GRUB. The reason being several of these discussions are very old. --Stevenmw (talk) 15:17, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

I've read over the GRUB article a dozen times over the past couple of days. Just trying to weed out what is relevant information, and what should be removed all together or moved out of a section and into another one. I'm currently focusing on the preface. Could I please get feedback from other users on this? I'd likesome opinions on better organization, what is relevant, what could use better clarification, etc. Thanks.
--Stevenmw (talk) 14:55, 5 December 2014 (UTC)
Okay, I've been very busy lately and unable to focus on working on this article. I recently installed Arch with UEFI on my laptop and I have several findings and tips / tricks / notes I'd like to put together in instruction form. Expect to see an update to the UEFI section of the article soon.
--Stevenmw (talk) 21:16, 18 December 2014 (UTC)
I've drafted up some clearer UEFI instructions. I've got to polish them, figure out how they'll best fit, and then format them for the wiki including linking to packages. Expect these changes soon. If you have anything you'd like to note please do so.
--Stevenmw (talk) 17:56, 19 December 2014 (UTC)

GRUB is a highly used package, and the Arch wiki standard has risen a great deal over the years. I feel like this article could really use several small changes and even a small amount of restructuring. It could definitely use use clarification and rephrasing in certain areas,

Here is the course of action I am proposing;

  • First we go through this discussion page and address everything. We give people a chance to provide feedback. Then within a reasonable amount of time we slowly close the discussions. (Several haven't had a response in over a year, and by closing them we can start fresh and handle things a piece at a time.)
  • Then we start one master discussion where we can all discuss changes / concerns regarding this article.
  • Then we gradually roll out these changes in an order that best fits the changes we decided needed to happen.

This afternoon I will be starting at the top of this page and researching each concern / issue. I will slowly work my way down the page over the rest of the week. I encourage other Arch users to contribute to this page as it exists right now so we can address any concerns regarding open discussions and get them closed out so we can start from scratch.

After reading over the discussion rules page I realized I had a couple of violations when adding this discussion topic. I've corrected them.

--Stevenmw (talk) 18:23, 3 December 2014 (UTC)

I was the one who added the template, so thank you very much for the initiative. Improving GRUB was planned as part of the Beginners' guide merge, and a big gripe is how information is scattered throughout the article, with none distinction between essential and dubious (corner-case to dirty hack) approaches. Feel free to add to this list. -- Alad (talk) 18:25, 3 December 2014 (UTC)

Others

  • Shorted the introduction at the top of the article by removing the definition of a bootloader, moved definition to the Preface section of the article
--Stevenmw (talk) 15:45, 4 December 2014 (UTC)
  • The MBR and EFI sections need a major overhaul / restructure. (will draft something out this weekend) --Stevenmw (talk) 15:52, 4 December 2014 (UTC)
  • Preface needs to be cleaned up with non-relevant information stripped and provide a better transition into the article. --Stevenmw (talk) 15:49, 5 December 2014 (UTC)
  • Possibly add setting up custom keyboard layout section as mentioned in a closed discussion. --Stevenmw (talk) 10:52, 6 December 2014 (UTC)
Keyboard layouts, if added, should be added to GRUB/Tips and tricks. -- Alad (talk) 00:51, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

Article cleanup master discussion

I've made several heavy edits to the UEFI section of this article. Anything I did not change is now under what I've labeled as further reading. I will be going through this section today and weeding things out, reorganizing, reformatting, restructuring, ect. My goal is to completely clean up the UEFI section and create a structure in which can be used to somewhat mirror the BIOS section to help structure it and clean it up. My other goal is to consolidate any UEFI and BIOS information into their own sections. Things in this article are far too scattered. Before I consolidated the UEFI sections some of it was above and below the BIOS section. There are some major formatting issues on my part. This is due to the consolidation. I was more focused on getting everything together and starting a restructure so I haven't gone through yet and cleaned up these formatting problems. I have also removed the old UEFI discussions from this page. I felt that since I was cleaning the UEFI section up and adding to it, that it may be better to have all of the discussions lumped into one master discussion.

Please use this master discussion to add thoughts, ideas, complaints, notes, etc regarding cleaning up this article. Thanks

--Stevenmw (talk) 11:40, 20 December 2014 (UTC)

I've made a large amount of minor edits to the UEFI section throughout the day in an effort to polish a lot of the information. Also to get rid of a lot of duplicate information I initially missed when moving things around. I'd like to make a note of the dosfstools package in the UEFI further reading section, but I don't really know where it would fit in and how to properly explain what it is used for. Hoping to have the UEFI section done with my contributions by tonight. Please contribute any changes you feel is valid to this section. There are several areas of what I've done that could use improvements. Let me know if you have a complaint with anything I've done.
--Stevenmw (talk) 23:10, 20 December 2014 (UTC)
I've gotten to a point where I'm happy with what I've done to the UEFI section. If anyone isn't please let me know or make changes to the Article. I'm going to move on to the MBR section next and as the article content changes I'll most likely need to make changes to the UEFI so everything in the article is consistent and blends. By the end of the weekend I will try to have the MBR section cleaned up and some what matching the structure of the UEFI section.
--Stevenmw (talk) 00:09, 21 December 2014 (UTC)
Thanks, I do much prefer the current structure of GRUB#UEFI systems and GRUB#BIOS systems over the previous GRUB#Preface and GRUB#Installation. But I have a few remarks:
  1. The usual way to handle larger edits, particularly content rewrital, is make a draft on your user page. Then successively work on it with smaller, descriptive edits, and merge it back to the main article after community review. (I know me saying the "after" part sounds two-faced.. :P)
  2. Bulleted/numbered lists are uncommon in articles and gives less overview than a few well-chosen headers.
  3. IMHO, the Beginners' guide is not a proper reference in the context of Help:Style#Hypertext metaphor. Besides it not strictly following Help:Style, its contents are a limited selection of wiki content so you'd rather link to the articles themselves.
I'm afraid I can't give more detailed remarks on the content with my current schedule, so I'll leave this to the others. -- Alad (talk) 01:48, 21 December 2014 (UTC)
Great to see your work on it, I also like the new structure and it's a lot of effort to bring instructions into it without loosing content before it is certain it's not required.
To your question above: I would not expect we have to mention dosfstools in this article. It is mentioned in the BG guide and (not yet, should be too) in Unified_Extensible_Firmware_Interface#EFI_System_Partition.
Couple of thoughts on GRUB#UEFI_systems:
(a) Having/keeping subsections on GPT and EFI system partition (ESP) makes sense (should be renamed though, imo), particularly to provide some context and the relevant crosslinks, but what I would expect is that the core GRUB#UEFI Installation subsection starts at the step (7) (setting up Grub on UEFI) and the content before should be covered in the subsections before, i.e. content/crosslinks related to the partitioning (1) and the ESP (2).
(b) I agree with Alad as per BG guide as a "non-proper" reference and this article should not explicitly tie to it (i.e. drop points 3-6 from the list) but rather the other articles. Still, for the existing subsections we could expect a lot readers of the GPT/ESP subsections arrive from Beginners' guide#Prepare the storage drive (or wants to know the info what GRUB options there are for GPT/ESP) and the reader of GRUB#UEFI Installation might arrive from Beginners' guide#For UEFI motherboards or the install guide/boot loader installation step. What do you think?
(c) Along my lines in (a) the first note in GRUB#UEFI Installation could be merged into the note in GRUB#UEFI systems. Likewise the explanations in the large second note of the grub efi variables (--efi-directory ...) could be moved right after the grub-install command when they are used first time. --Indigo (talk) 02:31, 21 December 2014 (UTC)
Thanks for the feedback. I'll review your remarks and strip out several steps and restructure as suggested.
--Stevenmw (talk) 04:02, 21 December 2014 (UTC)
I took Alad's advice and used my user page to write out a draft then merged the changes. I rewrote the UEFI instructions keeping suggestions in mind.
--Stevenmw (talk) 18:16, 21 December 2014 (UTC)
I like how the note below the UEFI install steps is now split up. The note was already there when I did my rewrite and I thought the information may be useful to others so I left it as it was with the intention to clean it up. The only thing I changed was adding the does not look like efi partition error. --Stevenmw (talk) 21:21, 21 December 2014 (UTC)
Yes, it's much more readable; we just need to make sure to link down to the troubleshooting note as a reference. I tried to clean the remaining notes in #UEFI Installation subsection, please check that I got it right. Something else: I liked how you referenced the "alternative" method with [1] in the instructions before starting the current rework. I think it is very popular for users to simply keep /boot in the $esp, hence it is useful to reference it early. --Indigo (talk) 11:42, 22 December 2014 (UTC)
The note is much cleaner, and the information being put together is perfect for the organization for the article. I agree we need to link to troubleshooting. I was just waiting for the Troubleshooting section to be reworked by me or someone else first.
--Stevenmw (talk) 12:30, 22 December 2014 (UTC)

Root encryption

I think [2] is just saying the same things of the previous revision but in an unnecessarily more verbose way, I'd like to undo it, maybe leaving the reminder to regenerate grub.cfg, which seems a very common mistake. -- Kynikos (talk) 03:20, 23 December 2014 (UTC)