Difference between revisions of "Talk:ATI"

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== Questionable Statements ==
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== The generic modesetting driver ==
=== Introduction ===
 
"Naming conventions" paired with an introduction ''and'' an overview, feels overly verbose and jumbled flow-wise.  I suggest a consolidation of the three, offloading much of that info to wikipedia or the like.  Any objections?  I'll edit as soon as April.  [[User:T1nk3r3r|T1nk3r3r]] ([[User talk:T1nk3r3r|talk]]) 08:25, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
 
  
== Enabling video acceleration ==
+
We should also mention the generic modesetting driver. For my card (HD6570), this driver outperforms the ATI driver (I have tested it with glxgears, gtkperf and Unigene Valley) and some benchmarks available on the web seems to go in the same direction. The generic driver gives 2D acceleration via glamor and the 3D mesa libraries; 3D acceleration is given by the Mesa libraries. It is not clear that the modesetting driver is better under all circumstances but it is a "real" driver that is worth considering.
  
<tt>~/.bashrc</tt> is the wrong place for setting this environment variables. This file is not consulted when starting i.e. firefox from the gnome shell.
+
{{unsigned|07:08, 6 October 2016‎|Olive}}
Setting this variables makes a difference when using flashplayer for youtube videos. When set, flashplayer reports accelerated rendering enabled at home with my ati hd3200 onboard graphics and rendering is faster in full screen mode.
 
  
It works now no more worse than under windows.
+
== Turn vsync off ==
:: So it only remains to replace content to reference /etc/profile.d instead.  I don't know the specifics off the top of my head, so if someone else would be so kind.... [[User:T1nk3r3r|T1nk3r3r]] ([[User talk:T1nk3r3r|talk]]) 08:18, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
 
::: I simply put a <tt>vdpau.sh</tt> and a <tt>vdpau.csh</tt> file under <tt>/etc/profile.d/</tt> which sets the environment variables and it seems to work (Flash video information says hw-acceleration is on). [[User:Kleinph|Kleinph]] ([[User talk:Kleinph|talk]]) 14:50, 4 June 2013 (UTC)
 
  
== Catalyst versus Radeon ==
+
driver="dri2" works both with DRI2 and DRI3. Also I would suggest changing vblank_mode to 1, because 0 is "force disable" and 1 is "disable by default", which seems more correct to me.
  
;Catalyst
+
{{unsigned|19:55, 12 December 2016‎|Equeim}}
The ATI and Catalyst pages state that Catalyst performs better for 3D. As most of you may have experienced, the Catalyst driver is clunky and very badly optimized for Linux. Gaming performance is usually worse than on Windows. Catalyst and Nvidia drivers do not uses Unix interfaces properly (Linux kernel and Xorg), a big part of it is just a bunch of hacks. See what [http://nouveau.freedesktop.org/wiki/FAQ#So_go_to_a_country_where_it.2BIBk-s_not_illegal_and_produce_specs.21 the nouveau folks think]. Maybe it's a matter of syncing development between different platforms, so adapting the driver as less as possible from Windows is probably more profitable. The lack of respect for interfaces has one major issue: the compatibility with Xorg and Kernels is extremely fragile. Besides, a lot of features or simply not reliable (or at least a real pain to setup) with these drivers, such as dual head / external output, custom kernels, hibernation...
 
  
It would be a great relief for the Unix communities to finally have a free, full-featured and top class 3D graphic driver.  
+
:You are completely right, this section should be edited, there's no need for "Reason: Is this still valid with DRI3? (which is default)", I will be free to remove it since it works on all drivers with DRI3 (nouveau, radeon etc.). You are also right about vblank_mode, but I've tested it just now, and it should stay 0 because some applications may refuse to disable it when it's "by default" (such as Chromium/Chrome).  
  
;Radeon
+
:However, there is something with mutter/clutter on Gnome-Shell/Cinnamon/Budgie etc. that makes browsers behave weird if it's set to 0, with 1, behaviour is as expected, so maybe we should add that as an note or added section? Here is bug explained: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=99418
AMD did a very good thing when they decided to release the specs of their cards. FOSS radeon driver is now lightyears beyond nouveau in term of OpenGL implementation. The FOSS radeon driver seems like the ideal future of Unix graphics to me.
 
  
Since version 9.0.* from late 2012 and January 2013, OpenGL implementation has moved several steps forward as you can see on the [http://www.x.org/wiki/RadeonFeature feature matrix]. In fact, I've tested several games (native or Wine) and radeon performs much better than catalyst most of the times.
+
:I would add notice for Gnome-Shell (mutter/clutter based WM), but I need second opinion. [[User:Lpr|Lpr]] ([[User talk:Lpr|talk]]) 22:36, 1 February 2017 (UTC)
  
For performance and Unix-frendliness, I suggest we should encourage Unix users to choose radeon over catalyst. Too many people are held back in their switching-to-Unix because of the terrible, infamous catalyst, even if all they need is average 3D graphics.
+
== Restructuring ==
  
Since this revolution is brand new, it requires support from the community. We also need concrete data that states the progress, the support and the performance of radeon compared to catalyst.
+
This is still called "ATI", after the company that has been acquired by AMD eleven years ago.
 +
I think this is rather confusing because the article is covering the radeon DRM driver, Mesa stuff etc. and nothing really carries the name ATI still inside it, besides the old ddx driver.
  
I suggest we create a benchmark page for that. Should we create a new page? I'll begin it below for now, but we shall move it in the future.
+
Also, the old stuff about catalyst and fglrx could get into a separate, legacy article as imho most Arch users should not be concerned about that stuff.
  
--[[User:Ambrevar|Ambrevar]] ([[User talk:Ambrevar|talk]]) 12:07, 6 February 2013 (UTC)
+
The "quick start guide" that comes after the installation guide (https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/General_recommendations#Display_drivers) also only refers to [[ATI]], [[Intel]] and [[NVIDIA]].
  
:: A benchmark page could be informative, especially for newcomers that are having a difficult time making up their minds.  AMD is actually shifting support from Catalyst to radeon drivers.  They had hired two bodies to work on the radeon driver.  But then I came across this: http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/AMD-dismisses-numerous-open-source-developers-1745131.html
+
I would like to restructure this whole stuff and add some more knowledge about the actual graphics stacks.
:: I just found this: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/02/05/amd_open_source_hd_8000_drivers/print.html
 
:: Regardless, there has been a lot of headway in the last four years.  I recently tested some games on vanilla Wine and performance was considerable.
 
:: When I came to Arch, I was using Catalyst.  I was a pain to setup and maintain.  I was since persuaded by a Wine developer to switch to the radeon driver, as it is much easier to debug and submit patches upstream for either Wine or Radeon.  Not to mention Catalyst only ever "officially" supported Ubuntu, SUSE, and RedHat.
 
:: Drop a line to the Catalyst talk page?  [[User:T1nk3r3r|T1nk3r3r]] ([[User talk:T1nk3r3r|talk]]) 17:27, 6 February 2013 (UTC)
 
::: I think the message in the introduction is clear: '''If unsure, try the open source driver first, it will suit most needs and is generally less problematic'''. -- 09:37, 7 February 2013 (UTC)
 
::::Sure, but the previous paragraph clearly tells 'if you want 3D performance, go for Catalyst', which is not very true anymore. --[[User:Ambrevar|Ambrevar]] ([[User talk:Ambrevar|talk]]) 09:43, 7 February 2013 (UTC)
 
:::::I agree.  So we just need a clear statement from a benchmarking website that supports that.  Preferably something recent.
 
:::::I will not question the removal of dubious statements, so long as that point is made clear in the edit summary. [[User:T1nk3r3r|T1nk3r3r]] ([[User talk:T1nk3r3r|talk]]) 19:00, 7 February 2013 (UTC)
 
::::::At any rate, edits to wiki articles should be free of personal bias.  Older content should be neutralized if appropriate.  I believe the wiki exists to instruct procedures from any angle, not to influence a personal attitude. Cite credible sources when necessary. [[User:T1nk3r3r|T1nk3r3r]] ([[User talk:T1nk3r3r|talk]]) 08:08, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
 
  
=== Benchmark ===
+
In a separate, e.g. "graphics drivers" article we could
 +
* note that there are free and proprietary stacks
 +
* explain that there isn't an actual "graphics driver" but a graphics stack that consists of DRM/kernel drivers, the libdrm and userspace drivers for 3D, Video, GPGPU and X
 +
* present the different stacks in a table, say which stack supports which hardware and link to separate articles for each: Intel, free AMD stack, AMDGPU-PRO, nouveau, Nvidia, and maybe one legacy ATI/AMD stacks.
 +
* recommend to use free stacks in general. Also recommend generic modesetting w/ glamor instead of old ddx drivers
  
The following benchmark table is open for contribution.
+
Then, in each article with the more meaningful titles keep the same info for each of the stacks (tips, troubleshooting, ...).
However the benchmarking process is not trivial, it needs some helper scripts and configurations beforehand.
 
  
====Turn vsync off====
 
The radeon driver will enable vsync by default, which is perfectly fine except for benchmarking. To turn it off, create {{ic|~/.drirc}} (or edit it if it already exists) and add the following section:
 
{{hc|~/.drirc|<nowiki>
 
<driconf>
 
    <device screen="0" driver="dri2">
 
        <application name="Default">
 
            <option name="vblank_mode" value="0" />
 
        </application>
 
    </device>
 
    <!-- Other devices ... -->
 
</driconf>
 
</nowiki>}}
 
It is effectively '''dri2''', not your video card code (like r600).
 
  
====Driver switching helper====
+
How do you guys think about that proposal?
You may find yourself switching the driver a lot for benchmarking. Since there is conflicts between {{pkg|radeon}} and {{pkg|catalyst-utils}} it is quite cumbersome in the long run. So I wrote a little, very simple script. It only works for syslinux and Arch Linux. You ''must'' adapt it if you are using GRUB or another bootloader. This will also remove the {{ic|/etc/X11/xorg.conf}} file, so if you are using it, backup this file. Catalyst will backup it anyway.
 
{{hc|switchdriver.sh|<nowiki>
 
#!/bin/sh
 
  
if [ -z "$(lspci|grep "VGA.*Radeon")" ]; then
+
[[User:Iuno|Iuno]] ([[User talk:Iuno|talk]]) 22:50, 7 April 2017 (UTC)
    echo "You must have a Radeon graphic adapter. Exit."
 
    exit
 
fi
 
  
if [ $(id -u) -ne 0 ]; then
+
:* What are the "more meaningful titles" that you propose?
    echo "You must be root to run this script. Exit."
+
:* There is no catalyst/fglrx info on this page.
    exit
+
:* The "quick start guide" should point to [[Xorg#Driver_installation]], where most of your proposal is already covered. If not, feel free to prepare a draft on your userpage so that we can look at it.
fi
+
:-- [[User:Lahwaacz|Lahwaacz]] ([[User talk:Lahwaacz|talk]]) 07:27, 8 April 2017 (UTC)
  
if [ $(pacman -Qi catalyst-utils 2>/dev/null|wc -l) -ge 2 ]; then
+
:: Thanks for your answer. For "more meaningful titles" I'd suggest some consistency. E.g. there is [[Intel graphics]] (which seems fine on it's own), [[NVIDIA]] (the brand name that should also be fine as they build GPUs and SoCs, the latter might not be significant here), [[Nouveau]] (driver stack name). And then there is [[ATI]], as mentioned a brand name that died many years ago and the relevant article covers quite recent hardware. And of course [[AMDGPU]], the name of the driver stack that newbies might not now. [[Radeon]] also redirects to [[ATI]], as does [[Amd]]. If a user searches one term for AMD graphics, they land in [[ATI]] 99% and that's confusing imho. Sure, there is the introduction mentioning amdgpu and catalyst but should this not be on a short and clear overview page and then link to relevant article?
    pacman -Rdd --noconfirm catalyst-utils catalyst-dkms lib32-catalyst-utils
+
:: I like the table at [[Xorg#Driver_installation]] very much. But here you can also see there is catalyst mentioned instead of amdgpu-pro. Also it covers OpenGL but not VA-API, VDPAU, Vulkan or OpenCL. Also, it lists ddx drivers and make them look like a requirement but they don't really offer advantages over the generic modesetting driver at all anymore. The opposite is true for some users.
    rm -f "/etc/X11/xorg.conf"
+
:: I also dont' get what the GCN table is doing there: [[Xorg#AMD]]. I added the info about amdgpu compatibility a while ago on [[ATI]] or [[AMDGPU]] and it got removed. Also, this section is not tied to X, as it applies to Wayland too.  
    pacman -S --noconfirm ati-dri lib32-ati-dri  xf86-video-ati
+
:: -- [[User:Iuno|Iuno]] ([[User talk:Iuno|talk]]) 16:29, 8 April 2017 (UTC)
    if [ -f "/boot/syslinux/syslinux.cfg" ]; then
 
        sed -i 's/nomodeset//' "/boot/syslinux/syslinux.cfg"
 
        echo
 
        echo "#### Syslinux entry:"
 
        grep -A4 "^LABEL arch$" "/boot/syslinux/syslinux.cfg"
 
    else
 
        echo "You do not seem to use Syslinux. No configuration done."
 
        echo "You have to remove 'nomodeset' kernel parameter manually."
 
    fi
 
else
 
    pacman -Rs --noconfirm ati-dri lib32-ati-dri  xf86-video-ati
 
    pacman -Rdd --noconfirm mesa-libgl lib32-mesa-libgl
 
    pacman -S  --noconfirm catalyst-utils catalyst-dkms lib32-catalyst-utils
 
    aticonfig --initial
 
    if [ $? -eq 0 ] && [ -f "/boot/syslinux/syslinux.cfg" ]; then
 
        sed -i '/^LABEL arch$/{n;n;n;s/$/ nomodeset/}' "/boot/syslinux/syslinux.cfg"
 
        echo
 
        echo "#### Syslinux entry:"
 
        grep -A4 "^LABEL arch$" "/boot/syslinux/syslinux.cfg"
 
    else
 
        echo "You do not seem to use Syslinux. No configuration done."
 
        echo "You have to add 'nomodeset' kernel parameter manually."
 
    fi
 
fi
 
</nowiki>}}
 
  
====OpenGL FPS monitor====
+
:::Since you don't have anything better straight away, I think that "ATI" is a good enough title as it is sufficiently different from both [[AMDGPU]] and [[AMD Catalyst]]. There is already different driver for newer hardware, so we might as well just let the page perish following the lead of the brand. -- [[User:Lahwaacz|Lahwaacz]] ([[User talk:Lahwaacz|talk]]) 20:09, 8 April 2017 (UTC)
For native OpenGL games, there is actually no universal solution. Check if the game has an embedded FPS monitor (check the developper console or something like that). Otherwise we must use an external tool that will hook the double buffering function (glXSwapBuffers) to compute the framerate. I've found two FPS monitors that could do that:
 
* [http://code.fluffytapeworm.com/projects/libglfps libglfps] which I haven't been able to run properly. But with some source code edits I managed to output the FPS to the terminal.
 
* [http://code.google.com/p/frapix/ frapix] is newer and seems to work.
 
 
 
It works for some OpenGL applications like glxgears, but it will not for others, ''e.g.'' Legend of Grimrock. I'm still looking for a solution here.
 
 
 
====Wine====
 
Thankfully Wine features an embedded FPS monitor which works for all graphical applications. You just need to start the application with the {{ic|1=WINEDEBUG=fps}} variable set.
 
You can actually display the FPS on top of the game window thanks to {{ic|osd_cat}} from the {{pkg|xosd}} package. I wrote a helper script for convenience:
 
 
 
{{hc|winefps.sh|<nowiki>
 
if [ $# -lt 1 ]; then
 
    echo "Usage: ${0##*/} WIN32EXE PARAMS"
 
    exit
 
fi
 
 
 
if [ -z "$(command -v osd_cat)" ]; then
 
    echo "You must have osd_cat."
 
    exit
 
fi
 
 
 
if [ -z "$(sed --version | grep "GNU")" ]; then
 
    echo "You must have GNU sed."
 
    exit
 
fi
 
 
 
WINEDEBUG=fps wine "$@" 2>&1 | tee /dev/stderr | \
 
    sed -un '/^trace:fps:/{s/.* \([^ ]*\)fps/\1/;p}' | \
 
    osd_cat -l1 -f  "-*-*-*-*-*-*-32-*-*-*-*-*-*-*" -O1 -c "yellow"
 
</nowiki>}}
 
 
 
It works fullscreen with radeon, but seems quite messy with catalyst: you get a flash everytime osd_cat refreshes the output. A workaround is to play in windowed mode. If you are using a nice enough window manager you can toggle full screen with a shortcut.
 
[[User:Ambrevar|Ambrevar]] ([[User talk:Ambrevar|talk]]) 22:15, 9 March 2013 (UTC)
 
 
 
==== Benchmark table====
 
 
 
The relevent measures here focus on the comparison between the two drivers. Remember to use the same configuration and measure tools when benchmarking an application.
 
 
 
;avg: average framerate
 
;min-max: minimum and maximum framerate
 
 
 
{| border="1"
 
! rowspan="2" | Game !! rowspan="2" |Version !! width="50pt" rowspan="2" | Native Wine !! rowspan="2" | Hardware !! colspan="3" | Radeon !! colspan="3" | Catalyst !! rowspan="2" | Comments
 
|-
 
! version !! avg !! min-max  !!  version !! avg !! min-max
 
|-
 
| Command and Conquer Generals    ||        First Decade || Wine        || HD5770  ||          9.1 ||  30 ||  26-32 ||            13.1 ||  27 ||  18-30 ||
 
|-
 
| eduke32                        || 20130120_342 HRP 5.2 || Native      || HD5770  ||          9.1 ||  15 ||  12-18 ||            13.1 ||    ||        || Polymer, crash with Catalyst.
 
|-
 
| eduke32                        || 20130120_342 HRP 5.2 || Native      || HD5770  ||          9.1 ||  60 ||  60-60 ||            13.1 || 120 ||  70-200 || Polymost, loads faster on Catalyst, capped with Radeon.
 
|-
 
| Fallout New Vegas              ||                  1.0 || Wine        || HD5770  ||          9.1 ||  14 ||    5-20 ||            13.1 ||  15 ||    8-22 || Average graphics.
 
|-
 
| Far Cry 2                      ||                  1.3 || Wine        || HD5770  ||          9.1 ||  18 ||  15-40 ||            13.1 ||  20 ||  13-25 || Videos are very buggy with Catalyst.
 
|-
 
| Quake 3 Arena                  ||                1.32 || Wine        || HD5770  ||          9.1 ||  76 ||  75-77 ||            13.1 ||  86 ||  85-87 ||
 
|-
 
| Team Fortress 2                ||                      || Native      || HD5770  ||          9.1 ||  20 ||  10-60 ||            13.1 || 200 ||  30-300 || 16 bots cp_gorge, high graphics.
 
|-
 
| The Elder Scrolls III Morrowind ||                GOTYE || Wine        || HD5770  ||          9.1 ||  26 ||  16-60 ||            13.1 ||  26 ||  14-50 ||
 
|-
 
| Unigine Heaven Benchmark        ||                  2.5 || Native      || HD5770  ||          9.1 ||    ||        ||            13.1 ||  20 ||  15-25 || Using normal tesselation. Radeon does not support tesselation as of 9.1.
 
|-
 
| Unreal Tournament              ||                  436 || Wine        || HD5770  ||          9.1 || 120 || 118-160 ||            13.1 ||  95 ||  90-100 || Game stutters while using Catalyst + osd_cat.
 
|}
 
 
 
Note: this table looks properly aligned when edited in monospace (using [[Emacs Mediawiki]] for instance). I'm not sure that's the best way to go for tables in a wiki because the web view looks terrible; but if each column goes on its respective line, that's even harder to read in my opinion. [[User:Ambrevar|Ambrevar]] ([[User talk:Ambrevar|talk]]) 22:22, 9 March 2013 (UTC)
 
:: Obviously you went through a serious effort to produce these results, thank you.  It appears to me that driver performance might be dependant on the game engine as much as anything else, but the two drivers are neck to neck on most games.  At least for the 5770, there is no clear performance winner except in a few specific cases.  If only we could convince one of the tech sites to do something more comprehensive...I know they always have a nice selection of hardware to pick from... [[User:T1nk3r3r|T1nk3r3r]] ([[User talk:T1nk3r3r|talk]]) 07:56, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
 
 
 
Well, that was some research on the topic, but that's only the beginning! I still need to work on a proper FPS monitor, but I do not have much time right now. If someone knows how to measure FPS for OpenGL games that do not seem to use glXSwapBuffers... Anyway, as you said, we need more results. I have a bunch of games still waiting to be benchmarked, but I do not have much time right now. I can do it in a month or so. However this is not of utmost importance, what we need right now is a benchmark covering the various ATI cards.
 
 
 
This benchmark definitely needs more advertising. On this page it's worth nothing, chances are high nobody ever reads it. It think it deserves a better, more visited place. ArchWiki is great, and in a few years it managed to gathered so much stuff about Unix. Even when I was using FreeBSD I used Arch Wiki a lot (I'm still using it actually). Besides it seems like there is an army of ex-gamers among Arch users. Look at the Wine stats: [http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=distribution&sTitle=View%20Distributions AppDB Distributions]. I've skimmed over the pages, and it seems like Arch is in the top 5 with Ubuntu, Debian, Mint and Gentoo.
 
What I'm suggesting here is that we can manage to gather the benchmark results for different hardware using the manpower of the Arch Wiki.
 
 
 
Maybe that's not a good idea and it would fit better at Xorg or some place. Tell me what you think. If you agree, we can create an specific page ''Radeon vs Catalyst'' or something, create links on ATI and Catalyst pages, and invite users on the forum to contribute. -- [[User:Ambrevar|Ambrevar]] ([[User talk:Ambrevar|talk]]) 15:25, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
 
 
 
:: My personal conclusion on this benchmark: Catalyst has better performances for native games, but is as bad as Radeon for Wine. Radeon is much more comfortable in many ways since it is almost bug-free (I'm speaking of obvious bugs like crashes and glitches). Every new release of Radeon gives a huge performance boost in games, up to 100-150% I'd say, but I have no data for that. (I could benchmark with 9.0, but that's not worth it, let's wait for 9.2.) -- [[User:Ambrevar|Ambrevar]] ([[User talk:Ambrevar|talk]]) 15:34, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
 
::: This has got to start somewhere...I think posting something on the forums, linking here, will increase traffic.  We might possibly create a dedicated wiki page, but I don't know how the admins will feel about that.  I suppose the forum thread would poll the support on such a move.  The main argument for Radeon that was presented to me by a Wine developer was: a bug in Catalyst ''might'' get fixed in the distant future, a bug in Radeon could get fixed in a few days. That motivated me to switch. [[User:T1nk3r3r|T1nk3r3r]] ([[User talk:T1nk3r3r|talk]]) 05:49, 13 March 2013 (UTC)
 
 
 
::Okay, so I'll start a thread. If it works and gains popularity, this page will get bloated soon (it already is), so moving it to a dedicated page will be more than necessary. -- [[User:Ambrevar|Ambrevar]] ([[User talk:Ambrevar|talk]]) 11:29, 14 March 2013 (UTC)
 
 
 
::New thread here: https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?pid=1244119#p1244119
 
 
 
::By the way I've found this benchmark on  [http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=amd_lucidrar_r4830&num=1 phoronix]. -- [[User:Ambrevar|Ambrevar]] ([[User talk:Ambrevar|talk]]) 12:07, 14 March 2013 (UTC)
 
 
 
== Overheating ==
 
Worth to mention that the powersaving is related to overheating issues. With the default powersaving off my laptop's graphic card, Mobility Radeon HD 4650, overheating causing the system to shutdown. Changing the setting to mid solved this issue.[[User:Dhead|Dhead]] ([[User talk:Dhead|talk]]) 12:37, 9 March 2013 (UTC)
 
: Laptops are also prone to dust accumulation. You should try taking some pressurized air to the vents, whether from a can or air compressor.  I've seen dust=overheating dozens of times with my own equipment and with friends and family.  Naturally, lowering the voltage via powersaving functions will mitigate such issues. Temporarily. [[User:T1nk3r3r|T1nk3r3r]] ([[User talk:T1nk3r3r|talk]]) 19:55, 9 March 2013 (UTC)
 
:: Thanks T1nk3r3r, but this isn't dust related, I've a habbit of cracking open my laptop once in a while and cleaning it with a blow fan. This is a real issue that I think needed to be addressed in the wiki. Good remark about lowering the voltage, currently I'm satisfied with the manual mid setting.[[User:Dhead|Dhead]] ([[User talk:Dhead|talk]]) 09:37, 20 March 2013 (UTC)
 
 
 
== Early KMS ==
 
 
 
I think that the Early KMS start in this page is very messy. The explanations on nouveau and intel pages, and the generic in KMS are much simpler.
 
If someone confirm that this is poorly explained, I will modify it.--[[User:Jacobopantoja|Jacobopantoja]] ([[User talk:Jacobopantoja|talk]]) 02:37, 27 March 2013 (UTC)
 
 
 
:I think they are simpler only because they are incomplete. [[ATI#Early_start]] describes both kernel line and initramfs methods. -- [[User:Lahwaacz|Lahwaacz]] ([[User talk:Lahwaacz|talk]]) 12:47, 3 September 2013 (UTC)
 

Latest revision as of 10:15, 11 April 2017

The generic modesetting driver

We should also mention the generic modesetting driver. For my card (HD6570), this driver outperforms the ATI driver (I have tested it with glxgears, gtkperf and Unigene Valley) and some benchmarks available on the web seems to go in the same direction. The generic driver gives 2D acceleration via glamor and the 3D mesa libraries; 3D acceleration is given by the Mesa libraries. It is not clear that the modesetting driver is better under all circumstances but it is a "real" driver that is worth considering.

—This unsigned comment is by Olive (talk) 07:08, 6 October 2016‎. Please sign your posts with ~~~~!

Turn vsync off

driver="dri2" works both with DRI2 and DRI3. Also I would suggest changing vblank_mode to 1, because 0 is "force disable" and 1 is "disable by default", which seems more correct to me.

—This unsigned comment is by Equeim (talk) 19:55, 12 December 2016‎. Please sign your posts with ~~~~!

You are completely right, this section should be edited, there's no need for "Reason: Is this still valid with DRI3? (which is default)", I will be free to remove it since it works on all drivers with DRI3 (nouveau, radeon etc.). You are also right about vblank_mode, but I've tested it just now, and it should stay 0 because some applications may refuse to disable it when it's "by default" (such as Chromium/Chrome).
However, there is something with mutter/clutter on Gnome-Shell/Cinnamon/Budgie etc. that makes browsers behave weird if it's set to 0, with 1, behaviour is as expected, so maybe we should add that as an note or added section? Here is bug explained: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=99418
I would add notice for Gnome-Shell (mutter/clutter based WM), but I need second opinion. Lpr (talk) 22:36, 1 February 2017 (UTC)

Restructuring

This is still called "ATI", after the company that has been acquired by AMD eleven years ago. I think this is rather confusing because the article is covering the radeon DRM driver, Mesa stuff etc. and nothing really carries the name ATI still inside it, besides the old ddx driver.

Also, the old stuff about catalyst and fglrx could get into a separate, legacy article as imho most Arch users should not be concerned about that stuff.

The "quick start guide" that comes after the installation guide (https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/General_recommendations#Display_drivers) also only refers to ATI, Intel and NVIDIA.

I would like to restructure this whole stuff and add some more knowledge about the actual graphics stacks.

In a separate, e.g. "graphics drivers" article we could

  • note that there are free and proprietary stacks
  • explain that there isn't an actual "graphics driver" but a graphics stack that consists of DRM/kernel drivers, the libdrm and userspace drivers for 3D, Video, GPGPU and X
  • present the different stacks in a table, say which stack supports which hardware and link to separate articles for each: Intel, free AMD stack, AMDGPU-PRO, nouveau, Nvidia, and maybe one legacy ATI/AMD stacks.
  • recommend to use free stacks in general. Also recommend generic modesetting w/ glamor instead of old ddx drivers

Then, in each article with the more meaningful titles keep the same info for each of the stacks (tips, troubleshooting, ...).


How do you guys think about that proposal?

Iuno (talk) 22:50, 7 April 2017 (UTC)

  • What are the "more meaningful titles" that you propose?
  • There is no catalyst/fglrx info on this page.
  • The "quick start guide" should point to Xorg#Driver_installation, where most of your proposal is already covered. If not, feel free to prepare a draft on your userpage so that we can look at it.
-- Lahwaacz (talk) 07:27, 8 April 2017 (UTC)
Thanks for your answer. For "more meaningful titles" I'd suggest some consistency. E.g. there is Intel graphics (which seems fine on it's own), NVIDIA (the brand name that should also be fine as they build GPUs and SoCs, the latter might not be significant here), Nouveau (driver stack name). And then there is ATI, as mentioned a brand name that died many years ago and the relevant article covers quite recent hardware. And of course AMDGPU, the name of the driver stack that newbies might not now. Radeon also redirects to ATI, as does Amd. If a user searches one term for AMD graphics, they land in ATI 99% and that's confusing imho. Sure, there is the introduction mentioning amdgpu and catalyst but should this not be on a short and clear overview page and then link to relevant article?
I like the table at Xorg#Driver_installation very much. But here you can also see there is catalyst mentioned instead of amdgpu-pro. Also it covers OpenGL but not VA-API, VDPAU, Vulkan or OpenCL. Also, it lists ddx drivers and make them look like a requirement but they don't really offer advantages over the generic modesetting driver at all anymore. The opposite is true for some users.
I also dont' get what the GCN table is doing there: Xorg#AMD. I added the info about amdgpu compatibility a while ago on ATI or AMDGPU and it got removed. Also, this section is not tied to X, as it applies to Wayland too.
-- Iuno (talk) 16:29, 8 April 2017 (UTC)
Since you don't have anything better straight away, I think that "ATI" is a good enough title as it is sufficiently different from both AMDGPU and AMD Catalyst. There is already different driver for newer hardware, so we might as well just let the page perish following the lead of the brand. -- Lahwaacz (talk) 20:09, 8 April 2017 (UTC)