Talk:Accessibility

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What about entirely replacing the mice with keyboard strokes equivalent, in particular in X?

I think there should be a whole section about a way to completely give up the mice, entirely replacing it with keyboard strokes equivalent, in particular in X. It is not that I am aware of such methods. I feel there are some people that need that.

There might be some hints in keyboard shortcuts.

Regid (talk) 19:46, 1 March 2017 (UTC)

I don't know a way to move the cursor with a keyboard, but I think the most effective way will always be to use programs that don't require the use of a cursor for navigation, such as vim, qutebrowser etc. -- Lahwaacz (talk) 22:03, 1 March 2017 (UTC)
Where are you having problems that tab, (Shift/Alt+ letter) and or arrow keys don't work for navigating instead of using a mouse? --Feas (talk) 19:52, 2 March 2017 (UTC)
  1. A way to move the mouse by keyboard strokes, at least with X, might be with xdotool. A short discussion, and examples, mentioning accessibility, is at http://tuxradar.com/content/xdotool-script-your-mouse. I am sure there are more mature tools. Surely this problem is more wide spread than for here to discuss it for the first time.
  2. As for using only terminal applications, I find it problematic. There are many problems with this approach and the bottom line, at least for me, is that it is not the general way to go.
Regid (talk) 00:41, 3 March 2017 (UTC)
Are you sure such key combinations are not unique to your environment? Which environment are you using? I think such an environment is definitely worth mentioning in the page. Regid (talk) 00:41, 3 March 2017 (UTC)
They have worked in any windowed environment I have ever worked in (windows/unix/linux/mac). I would ask what are you using that they don't.
For example:
Evolution I use "alt m" to open messages menu and then can use the arrow keys to move up/down/left/right.
Chrome Browser using tab to jump to the next link you can select with a mouse.
"Alt tab" will select from applications already running on the system.
Most if not all environments have these things set by default such as: [1]
The keyboard shortcuts link provided already seems to cover this well just what exactly are you looking to do or think is lacking in it?
--Feas (talk) 01:48, 3 March 2017 (UTC)
Looks like there is a built, X level, solution: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MouseKeys. I didn't know that. Regid (talk) 01:56, 3 March 2017 (UTC)
Perhaps I misunderstood what you are trying to achieve. You want to move the actual mouse cursor with the keyboard? That was horrible. The movement would be too small so you would increase the distance traveled and over shoot what you were trying to select and have to make the movement small again. It truly is a pain. It really is much easier to use keyboard shortcuts to manage navigation. I cannot think of an instance where I would want to control the cursor without a mouse again. Why are you trying to do this or think it would useful for others? --Feas (talk) 02:22, 3 March 2017 (UTC)
Please keep in mind the main purpose of this article is to provide help with some kind of handicap, examples well summarized in w:Sticky keys, not everyone's personal efficiency or preferences to manage a desktop. Both, listing of apps which have thought-through cursor-less navigation modes, as well as tools to manage cursors without the mouse (e.g. the w:MouseKeys find, if it works) would be good additions to the article in my view. --Indigo (talk) 09:02, 3 March 2017 (UTC)
I stopped understanding what are the diffrenet tools that are discussed here. However, I do feel that Mouse Keys are targeted for accessibility. They might have other targets too, but surely accessibility is targeted by Mouse Keys. Indeed, the wikipedia entry mentions disabled user or ergonomics issues.
The way I understood Feas, he stated that Mouse Keys are horrible. I still have to configure that. It could be that there are difficulties with the X implementation. However, I am familiar with the Microsoft implementation. Wikipedia states Microsoft enhanced the basic X implementation. I know that Microsoft implementation is of great help in terms of better accessibility.
Regid (talk) 09:41, 3 March 2017 (UTC)
Sorry wasn't following for a few days had other issues. The point I was trying to get across was that the mouse keys are a poor example for accessibility when there are better methods to aid those of us with use of one arm. I would compare it to including 9600 baud dial up modems under internet connectivity. Sure it exist but is it a good option? I wouldn't try to do anything to stop you or remove it from the page but really don't see it as a useful option for someone in a similar circumstance. Since this is discussion I would ask if you have enabled it and used it for a period of time and compare it to the sticky keys and the keyboard shortcuts that exist and decide which you think is a better solution to suggest for others.
Feas (talk) 06:33, 7 March 2017 (UTC)
I can't tell for people with one arm. There are many subdivision disabilities between a person without disabilities, and a person with one arm. I haven't tried sticky keys and keyboard shortcuts. Mouse keys can also work in parallel to a real mouse. How stickey keys or keybaord shortcuts can move the pointer across the screen? Mouse Keys can move it. In a sense, the ability of Mouse Keys to move the pointer accross the screen is a sort of keybaord shortcuts. I think we discuss problems that for the most part can't be cured. There are different solutions, to help different phases. I find the fact that Mouse Keys lasts more than 40 years speaking for itself. I do hope that in the future there will be better solutions. Regid (talk) 16:21, 7 March 2017 (UTC)
I tried it too now (with a keypad you get 8 move directions per default) and found it pretty usable, albeit mouse cursor movement is very slow. I did not manage to speed it up yet. One should be able to do that using one of the five w:Mouse keys#MouseKeysAccel parameters. That would be a good addition. Anyone has an idea how to do that? --Indigo (talk) 13:12, 8 March 2017 (UTC)
As for the motion speed, man xset m option, which mention xinput, might be related. I haven't tried that myself. Perhaps you would like to pursue it further. Regid (talk) 05:47, 9 March 2017 (UTC)