Difference between revisions of "Talk:Beginners' guide"

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m (→‎Error in grub.cfg gen, line 164: rm section, the bug was fixed long ago)
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:+1 for ''always'' using the {{ic|.service}} suffix ''everywhere'' on this wiki. There are many other things that can be shortened: instead of {{ic|ip link show eth0}} you can write {{ic|ip li sh eth0}} etc. Many command line utilities and libraries (e.g. Python [http://docs.python.org/dev/library/argparse.html argparse]) behave this way, I'd even say that it's a standard behaviour. Unfortunately in documentation it leads to inconsistency and bad readability. -- [[User:Lahwaacz|Lahwaacz]] ([[User talk:Lahwaacz|talk]]) 18:05, 31 January 2014 (UTC)
:+1 for ''always'' using the {{ic|.service}} suffix ''everywhere'' on this wiki. There are many other things that can be shortened: instead of {{ic|ip link show eth0}} you can write {{ic|ip li sh eth0}} etc. Many command line utilities and libraries (e.g. Python [http://docs.python.org/dev/library/argparse.html argparse]) behave this way, I'd even say that it's a standard behaviour. Unfortunately in documentation it leads to inconsistency and bad readability. -- [[User:Lahwaacz|Lahwaacz]] ([[User talk:Lahwaacz|talk]]) 18:05, 31 January 2014 (UTC)
::Well, consistency is always a good quality for documentation, and, between the two options, I'm also for always showing the suffix. About [[Help:Style#Daemon operations]] the problem is a little different though, as it forbids systemctl examples in the first place, except for the Beginners' Guide, so I'd say it's time to make a decision in [[Help_talk:Style#Daemons_and_modules]] about the whole wording to officially suggest in these cases. -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 04:30, 2 February 2014 (UTC)
== Laptop Mode ==
== Laptop Mode ==

Revision as of 04:30, 2 February 2014


  1. Make all editing suggestions here.
  2. Keep discussions civil and productive.
  3. Add the <s> </s> tag to the specific discussion subtitle when it is closed and (if possible) add it to the bottom of the page.
  4. Keep the KISS principle in mind.

-- Misfit138 15:23, 22 October 2009 (EDT)

-- wget 17:10, 04 August 2013 (UTC)


A single, unified official install guide

Note: This is based on talk/consensus in #archlinux. The official Installation Guide page is going to be expanded (or this guide could be protected, cleaned up and replace it - either works, that could be decided here).

Previously, there has been talk here about merging with the old official install guide, and just having a single official Installation Guide. However, that didn't happen when the old guide was removed because the Beginners' Guide was (and is) too long, with too much duplication of other pages after the point where it's necessary (getting the initial network access). In order to be an "official" document, it would also have to be protected - edits by regular users would be proposed on the talk page.

The installation process now always requires network access, and the ISO ships with both a browser and an IRC client, so it's not necessary to keep so much information on this page, since we have very good coverage elsewhere that surpasses the duplication here. For example, there's no need for the Beginners' Guide to explain how to do an upgrade as Pacman#Upgrading packages has much better coverage of the gritty details, and the initial install is already fully upgraded.

-- thestinger (talk) 21:52, 28 October 2012 (UTC)

Yes, the ISO comes with a browser (elinks), but it's not very good with formatting. Some people may prefer to actually print the guide (which is a waste of paper, if you ask me, but old timers may feel differently), or save it as a PDF/HTML and read it on whatever device they own (smartphone, tablet, etc).

No need to create a section for this, just reminding that the unification would affect FS#36111. -- Kynikos (talk) 06:57, 18 August 2013 (UTC)

Define scope of the guide

I'd like to define the scope of the guide(s) better and whether it's OK to remove certain things from the wiki instead of marking them as 'the old way' and maybe moving them to a separate article, if needed. Currently the beginners' guide still has info related to initscripts, like setting the timezone, but the article on time has not. -- Karol (talk) 09:56, 30 October 2012 (UTC)

Right now the Beginner's Guide is "A page where user can get their system installed without reading other pages". This is where the duplications come from. Maybe we can redefine it. So we can:
# Improve Help:Reading. Add some guide about Navigation, Searching, Category and Table of Contents. So users can reach the information they want more easily.
# Reduce long duplication texts. The two network configuration part is a candicate. -- Fengchao (talk) 07:46, 31 October 2012 (UTC)
The reason for using the manual way of configuring is actually because timedatectl and friends won't work from inside a chroot. We could avoid that by having users reboot before configuring this stuff (time, hostname, etc. aren't critical at all) but that would require some minor restructuring, so it's something worth discussing. thestinger (talk) 17:28, 3 November 2012 (UTC)
I think that the goal of the Beginners' Guide is not only to let an Arch novice install the system successfully, but also to introduce him to how an Arch Linux system is structured and the technologies it's based on: we shouldn't think of the Beginners' Guide (or any other article) as a simple howto or step-by-step guide, but as something more formative. -- Kynikos (talk) 15:40, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

Unification Status?


Is there any forward motion on unifying or cleaning up the Installation Guides? I would like to lend my hand if or when I earn that ability.

Both my fiancee and I have recently completed installs of Arch Linux and found ourselves hopping back and forth between the official installation guide and this Beginners Guide. Short of unification, synchronizing the steps would be a huge boon for those that utilize the resources in a similar manner.

Cheers, AdamT (talk) 03:35, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

While it's more work and kind of a mess sometimes with 2 Guides, if those 2 are well maintained it has the advantage to serve distinct target groups well. If you where to merge into one, i fear you'd either annoy the expierienced Users with unnecessary fluff, or if you cut too much info out of it you'd leave the newbies with open questions.
Another system would be, have one guide, and on specific topics links to article which will explain those well. But then you would have to but all the verbose-newbiew "explain everything" information into those subarticles. I don't think it would be a better system.
One thing which i don't like about current state of the Beginners Guide, in some places there is some quite advanced info/adviced included which is only relevant in niche-scenarious. I think those should be moved into the specialized articles on a case by case basis.
What do you mean when you say "synchronizing the steps"? How would this look like?
Bwid (talk) 08:22, 24 July 2013 (UTC)
Hi Bwid,
I should have clarified with regards to synchronizing the steps between the Beginners' Guide and the official Installation Guide. Simply put, the Beginners' Guide completes the installation with steps ordered differently than the Installation Guide.
  • Connecting to the internet
    • Beginners' Guide Section 2.2
    • Installation Guide Section 2.5
  • Configure the System
    • Installation Guide Section 2.7
    • Beginner's Guide Section 2.8
      • Under which the steps are differently ordered compared to the installation guide.
Going back over this, it does seem a little trite, but if we are going to maintain two separate guides keeping them as close as possible in terms of process seems to be the simpler choice. I am not saying they need to have the same section numbers (though where feasible, that would be ideal I should think), just flow in the same order from start to finish.
There is something that strikes me as being distinctly not in keeping with The Arch Way with regards to keeping two separate guides. With that said, assuming for a moment that two guides are a necessary evil, it further seems to go against simplicity by keeping redundant information in the Beginners' Guide that could otherwise be put (and should be put or at least duplicated in my view) in the subject specific Arch Wiki articles so that people that are not just installing, or that may not consider themselves beginners might benefit from the information as well.
It does not need to be novice user centric, it does not need to be verbose. The sub-articles just need to provide the information that is necessary to properly address a given subject with regards to Arch Linux, which is the point of the subject specific articles as it is. Comprehensiveness is listed as a goal for the Arch Wiki so this should not be something that is feared (ArchWiki:About#Comprehensive).
This linking to relevant articles is exactly what the official Installation Guide does, and finding subject specific articles is a skill needed post-install for anyone that continues to use Arch Linux.
Anyway, I do not intend to talk this to death or to become hyperbolic, this just seemed to have fizzled and I was curious as to its current state. If people are happy with the current state of things regarding the installation guides that works for me I shall focus on other articles! : )
AdamT (talk) 18:20, 24 July 2013 (UTC)
Actually i think its good that you brought the topic up again. I was wondering along the same lines a while again. Is it worth it spending time working on restructuring the guide when the the thing might be done away with soon? Also don't take my rationalization of the 2 Guides as some sort of common opinion, i am sure there are many who agree that the Beginners Guide shouldnt duplicate Install guide, and even I am not sure about if what I wrote above is true. If the decission is that the BG should be repurposed, and instead the articles which are linked from IG improved then i would be fine with it.
Bwid (talk) 19:02, 24 July 2013 (UTC)
Technically yes, having only one slim installation guide that links to specific articles is the solution supported by thestinger and me (although with slightly different opinions on some things like protection of the article), and IIRC I've never read a word against the idea from other admins.
IMO the only big problem that's still holding us back is that we're playing with what's arguably the most visited article of the wiki, which is sometimes seen as kind of a trademark from outside, so everybody (including me) is hesitant about making the final decision that will definitively kill it. Maybe, and I say maybe, we should discuss this on the forums, where we would get many more responses, although a big part of them would probably be against the merge, as many new users do like having as much information as possible in one article without having to click on links. -- Kynikos (talk) 13:02, 25 July 2013 (UTC)
Bwid & Kynikos,
I appreciate both of your well reasoned responses. If the time is worth investing, perhaps putting together a third, unified option and then presenting the three on the forums (or however the admins would like) would provide a concise comparison which the community at large could form an educated opinion and decision from?
AdamT (talk) 21:47, 25 July 2013 (UTC)
Sorry I'm not following, what would be the third option? :) -- Kynikos (talk) 04:54, 27 July 2013 (UTC)
No worries. The third option would be a "unified guide" that we could create without removing the existing two (the official Installation Guide and the Beginners' Guide) so that a direct comparison could be made between the existing guides and our proposed unified guide. This would allow the admins to bring the guides before the greater community for a vote on which to use (the current two guides or a singular unified replacement). The risk with this plan is the potential for wasted time in creating a guide that may not ultimately be used. We should also probably commit to deleting the third guide if the community votes against it so as not to make the current situation worse with a third unofficial guide. :)
I hope this makes my idea clearer.
Take care,
AdamT (talk) 18:55, 27 July 2013 (UTC)
I don't think this third option is feasible without affecting the other two guides, in fact the big part of this whole unification is moving content from the Beginners' Guide to the various specific articles, and the third option wouldn't make sense if we don't do that. -- Kynikos (talk) 11:14, 29 July 2013 (UTC)

The transclusion way

I agree with the idea to create a guide for all users. For newbies, the fastest way to achieve the installation step should be written explicitly. Alternative/advanced ways (e.g. other bootloaders instead of the default proposed gummiboot for uefi bootloader) should be put in a dedicated article (to take the same example, the Bootloader article --> this article could even integrate the introduction section of grub for example. --> We will have recursive inclusions).

In order to avoid duplication and avoid too much maintenance efforts, we could use the MediaWiki's transclusion method, which embeds section of internal wiki pages into the current one (a dedicated extension exists to provide even more advanced inclusions possibilities). In that way, we maintain all the dedicated pages and include some of their sections to the unified install guide. Pay attention to don't broke the links when editing the dedicated articles. In that way, we will satisfy both kind of users: the advanced ones and the newbies.

  • The advanced ones will check the advanced pages when skimming the unified installation guide. For these users the guide will be like a memento (the current Installation Guide is thus not needed any more).
  • For newbies, it will be a beginner guide which will offer the availability to learn further by reading the linked pages.

Install guide

5. Add a bootloader
<Include introduction section of the bootloader article: what is a bootloader>

Use the recommended one for UEFI:
<Include standard/easy install section gummiboot install>


-- wget (talk) 17:57, 4 August 2013 (UTC)

Um I thought of this possibility myself a while ago, but then discarded it because it would make maintenance even more difficult, as when editing one of the transcluded articles it should always be taken into account any consequence on the "long" article; in the end, it looks too complicated to me. -- Kynikos (talk) 11:50, 5 August 2013 (UTC)
This is the reason I wrote "Pay attention to don't broke the links when editing the dedicated articles.". But I think applying this method is the best way to avoid duplication efforts. Take the following example. A guy: "It would be great if we add this new useful tool to establish a wi-fi connection to the beginner guide", another guy checking/watching the network page won't be informed and cannot bring its experience as he won't be informed about these changes written in the install guide.
If you're a developer you know what I mean when I say page inclusion is the BEST way to avoid duplication ;-)
- wget (talk) 12:52, 5 August 2013 (UTC)
One big problem I foresee with this method is that we still should maintain two separate installation guides: they should contain the same instructions, but one should contain links to the relevant articles, while the other should transclude the needed article sections; this means this method wouldn't avoid duplication completely :) I still think the "links" way is the simplest and most efficient. -- Kynikos (talk) 14:27, 6 August 2013 (UTC)
+1 for links. Based on my old experience, inclusion increase maintenance efforts, you need to consider both pages when editing. And what is worse, it make it harder for new users to contribute because change in one place may influence another page they do not know well. Let us keep it simple :) -- Fengchao (talk) 13:23, 11 August 2013 (UTC)
Please note that it is crucial that the document aimed at beginners (whether a separate article or not) direct UEFI users for whom gummiboot fails to alternative boot methods. I do not have in mind cases where a complex configuration requires something else but, rather, cases in which the user's firmware will not work with this method. One case is that in which the firmware fails with any method relying on EFISTUB. This is not the standard case but it is not uncommon either. Moreover, all UEFI users should be aware of this because firmware which boots the EFISTUB with this kernel may easily refuse to do so with the next. Any user using UEFI to boot needs to be aware of this possibility and of where to look for work-arounds if it they are hit by the bug(s) at some point. (Almost certainly multiple bugs at work here.) I am reiterating this because the original discussion (complete with forum links) has been removed as closed. That's fine but I worry that people unaware of those issues may easily streamline the new version of the guide in a way which recreates the problem with the same results: lots of confused beginners on the forums, often being directed back to a version of the guide which fails to point them in any useful direction. --cfr (talk) 23:35, 22 September 2013 (UTC)

Merge two network config sections

In my opinion the network configuration section is no longer correct and it should be replaced with the correct section from this page. At least, the static IP configuration section does not work for me. This is probably caused by the switch to systemd. --Doru001 (talk) 16:49, 29 January 2013 (UTC)

Most of this section is a repeat of info already presented earlier in the guide (most notably in 3.1.1).

I understand that directing users to 3.1.1 when they've already got a system up and running isn't that great of an idea since they are no longer in the live environment and some things are different (but not much!), but surely something can be done to reduce the redunancy (especially on the 4.1.2 Wireless LAN section, which is basically a 1:1 copy of Xgamer99 19:49, 8 January 2011 (EST)

Went ahead and made the edit, as I can't see anything wrong with it. Please let me know if you disagree. However, I still believe that 4.1 should be re-worked and merged with 3.1.1, and just have 4.1 direct users to it. The only thing that would need to be added is the Proxy settings and manual wired connection (installer handles wired connections flawlessly, so manual activation isn't covered in 3.1.1). Xgamer99 04:00, 9 January 2011 (EST)
Reopen this discuss. Those two network configuration section still exist. They should be merged. -- Fengchao (talk) 10:16, 1 August 2012 (UTC)
There are Beginners'_Guide#Establish_an_internet_connection and Beginners'_Guide#Configure_the_network sections. Though they are not 1:1 copy, I agree that they should be merged. -- Lahwaacz (talk) 14:34, 4 August 2013 (UTC)
Just to make sure it is clear, there are two sections because one configures the network in the live environment, the other does it in the chroot environment; for example in the first section it's not needed to enable services or netctl profiles. -- Kynikos (talk) 11:43, 5 August 2013 (UTC)
I disagree, they should not be merged. The first one is just a quick and dirty one-time setup. (As it should be.) The second one is about how to setup a network manager that provides a persistent connection. I think that merging these two will lead to more confusion. (I've already seen lots of people who do not understand that the network has to be configured twice; I think that we should explain the difference more clearly.) --Lonaowna (talk) 11:53, 5 August 2013 (UTC)
What about put this into another form: Merge common parts into Network Configuration and leave just a link here. -- Fengchao (talk) 13:25, 11 August 2013 (UTC)


If someone was interested and had the time to lay out here a detailed plan with indications on where to merge every section of the guide and a report of all the problems that could be encountered in the process, it would definitely be the final step before announcing the unification on the forums with full support from the admins, which would mean that at that point only strong and reasonable objections could prevent the unification. -- Kynikos (talk) 06:44, 18 August 2013 (UTC)

Here is a list of sections that should be merged. Feel free to expand, comment in #Comments. -- Lahwaacz (talk) 18:26, 31 August 2013‎ (UTC)

General problems

  • timedatectl, hostnamectl, localectl etc. won't work from inside a chroot, so manual method of configuration is required. This could be avoided by having users reboot before configuring this stuff (time, hostname, etc. aren't critical at all). (mentioned in #Define scope of the guide by User:Thestinger)


(place for comments)

Reloading font and keymap after arch-chroot

In the beginner's guide, after "arch-chroot /mnt" it says that we need to load keymap (loadkeys) and font (setfont) because the environment has changed... I installed Arch on a few computers so far and never did that, the keymap and font persisted even in the chroot. So maybe it isn't necessary and someone should remove that from the guide ? -- Unifiedlinux (talk) 19:00, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

Just did a couple of installs during the last days on two different computer and can confirm this. No change in keympa or font after chrooting --Evil.oyster (talk) 16:52, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

Blacklisting radeon module

Installed Arch on my laptop, during pacstrap the screen went blank, pressing SPACE, CTL+C ... didn't helped only modprobe.blacklist=radeon enabled me to go through the whole installation process. My graphic card is ATI M96 aka Mobility Radeon HD 4650. I believe this info and similar problems should be added to the beginner's guide on a Installation's Issues Troubleshooting section. I believe this is important enough to dual post and separate it from the Removing "Kernel modules" talk. p.s. I may add that this is my first desktop Linux experience--Dhead (talk) 06:20, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

Newbie here offering thoughts on what could be changed in guide

Hey everyone, I finally successfully installed arch. I know this is easy for most people, but for me it was surprisingly more than just a weekend's worth of late nights. The number one thing that I would love to propose is Archboot. I understand that this may not be eligible for the wiki since it's not an official repository. However, it did make things ridiculously easy.

Apart from that there should be a section at the very beginning explaining how to troubleshoot your own problems. Learning dmesg -HLkd and journalctl -b etc were helpful tools for me. I also appreciated learning lsblk, lsmod, ls etc from the various articles, but a quick over view of these helpful commands on this page would help newbies like myself.

Also some of the methods described can be done in multiple ways, explaining that one version of live USB / Archboot uses iw instead of iwconfig or iwlist etc is not helpful if the user is confused about whether/how they can still use the old methods and how to check which they have loaded. I finally figured all this stuff out on my own (which I probably should've! no hard feelings at all).

And lastly, the surprisingly tricky bit about "mounting" partitions that do not belong to you on a dual boot system. Ultimately for me what ended up working was knowing which file systems the others could read (esp in a UEFI system). These things can't just be "linked" to because even the pages linked to don't have the information. I got quite a bit of help from friends and google.

Just wanted to lend my first time experience. I personally was installing on a macbook air, so perhaps this might be better suited for that discussion page. However, I can honestly say that most of it can be merged together with this page. I barely (and I mean barely.) deviated from the usual archboot install for a mac. And I did it three times to make sure it was do-able.

Considering the archboot is basically the live usb wrapped in a gui (I believe?) it probably means that the two would've been quite similar for installing on a mba, and thus for macs in general. (The issues of xorg, wifi, etc, are real problems for macbooks, but I meant the general install should not require two wiki pages) Victoroux (talk) 14:01, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

Sorry! Just reading over again, and realizing that I could've saved a tonne of time if I knew the problem of "a bunch of white letters clustered on my screen" was an error I could check. It usually happened when the firmware didn't support something (in my case) but telling the user what he can do when this happens helps ease the wiki hopping. I finally, finally figured out how to debug most of my own problems and I think that is the number one thing this guide should do. No offense, but it would also lessen the load on the "newbie corner" on the forums (not that I know it's loaded or not, but less is better, right?). That way no matter what's written in the guide, if it's incorrect or leads to a bad result, the user can figure out why and what to do.. Victoroux (talk) 14:05, 7 June 2013 (UTC)
Another useful article that could be mentioned (rebooting from black screens, yay!) Victoroux (talk) 00:27, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

Unmounting before reboot

https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Beginners%27_Guide#Unmount_the_partitions_and_reboot says to unmount the partitions, but isn't that handled automatically by the reboot command? If not, should swap be turned off too?

UEFI booting (again)

I have reinstated the instructions for modprobing efivars before chroot since the new method seems not to be working for at least some users using the latest available iso (September). The thread is at https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?pid=1328120. Users there report using the guide with that iso earlier in the month but failing later in the month because of this change. (That is, they relied on the updated version of the instructions and it didn't work.) This may change with the next release of the iso and I'm not clear why it isn't working, but since this method seems to work, I think this guide should use it for now. Please test that the new method works before changing this again. Thanks. --cfr (talk) 23:14, 22 September 2013 (UTC)

Windows 8 Fast Startup

I've added a short paragraph (with Warning tags) about the Windows 8 Fast Startup feature, which is biting an increasing number of people. This paragraph should probably be expanded into a full section with explicit instructions on how to disable this feature, but I lack a Windows 8 machine for testing, so I just included a link to such a description on a Windows forum. --User:srs5694

remove gdisk instructions for install medium 2013-11

fdisk now has GPT support, this means that both MBR and GPT disks can now be formatted with fdisk. Does anyone object to removing gdisk instructions from this guide when the new image is released? --Lonaowna (talk) 09:34, 25 October 2013 (UTC)

No, I strongly object. util-linux fdisk's GPT support is beta/experimental and it does not offer full set of GPT manipulation features that gdisk supports. And Rod Smith (srs5694) does an amazing job of maintaining gdisk upstream and also helps users in the forums and contributes to the wiki. You can maybe add info about util-linux fdisk's GPT support, but alone with mentioning clearly its limitations viz-a-viz gdisk. Even if fdisk gains full GPT support, gdisk is not going anywhere and its more mature. -- Keshav Padram Amburay (talk) 09:51, 25 October 2013 (UTC)

Okay, I thought it was classified as 'stable' now, but if it isn't, we should indeed keep gdisk. In the future however, I would like to move to a one-partioner because it would be a lot cleaner (the current 'partitioning' section is a mess). Thanks for the reply! --Lonaowna (talk) 06:38, 27 October 2013 (UTC)

Confusing note in the chroot section

The chroot section starts with the note "If you are planning to reboot Arch in UEFI mode, read #For UEFI motherboards as there are some things to take care of before entering the chroot. This is necessary to ensure the boot loader or manager can be correctly configured within the chroot." But the UEFI section referred to does not contain any additional information, correct?

For UEFI users: they should install dosfstools

Shouldn't we tell UEFI users to additionally install dosfstools? Otherwise fsck.fat fails everytime they boot and shutdown.

Additional Clarification

Guide may benefit from some (admittedly obvious) clarifications and streamlining. For example:

  • Make it clear that font / keyboard / network configuration is at first for the install media, and not the system to be installed (e.g. this can be done by sectioning the guide)
  • dhcpcd should work right off the bat for wired connections; where this is so, add a line to skip to the next relevant section. A package like NetworkManager is also a nice and easy way to set up networking for installed systems. This would likely be preferable for newer users than being buried under reams of complex commands for networking.
  • Recommended to add base-devel as an option to the pacstrap command, and not just base.

network not accessible after configure under chroot during installation process

Hello, I encountered this issue, and repeated installation process to confirm it, while I was installing arch on an Acer aspire 722 laptop when relying wireless network access during installation.

As the wireless was configured before chroot, after chroot, if configuring it again, it won't trigger errors, but the network will not be accessible. Not sure if this happens to others, but I would suggest move the "chroot configuration new installation's network" after reboot the newly installed system, instead of configuring it under chroot.

Ipstone (talk) 20:13, 4 January 2014 (UTC)

service suffix

I just undid a few of User:Jstjohn's edits that remove .service from a systemctl operation.

I think we should include these suffixes to show the beginning users that there are other things than services that can be managed by systemctl. Besides that, I think we should always include the unit type in this wiki, as there are cases where there is a foo.service and a (for example) foo.socket where not showing it can be confusing.

Further more, I cannot find any documentation about what is actually done when the unit type is excluded. I THINK that it defaults to .service but I'm not sure what happens when there isn't a .service or there are multiple types.

Thoughts? Maybe the outcome of this discussion could be included in Help:Style#Daemon operations. --Lonaowna (talk) 09:20, 15 January 2014 (UTC)

+1 for always using the .service suffix everywhere on this wiki. There are many other things that can be shortened: instead of ip link show eth0 you can write ip li sh eth0 etc. Many command line utilities and libraries (e.g. Python argparse) behave this way, I'd even say that it's a standard behaviour. Unfortunately in documentation it leads to inconsistency and bad readability. -- Lahwaacz (talk) 18:05, 31 January 2014 (UTC)
Well, consistency is always a good quality for documentation, and, between the two options, I'm also for always showing the suffix. About Help:Style#Daemon operations the problem is a little different though, as it forbids systemctl examples in the first place, except for the Beginners' Guide, so I'd say it's time to make a decision in Help_talk:Style#Daemons_and_modules about the whole wording to officially suggest in these cases. -- Kynikos (talk) 04:30, 2 February 2014 (UTC)

Laptop Mode

My brother and I have been using Arch for a long time, and neither of us had any idea that Linux, by default, doesn't have a few power saving features that most would consider vital to laptops. I think the guide for beginners should mention Laptop_Mode_Tools

There is a link to General Recommendations in the top right box of Related articles (and also on the Main Page and in the Appendix) and the Power management section links to the necessary pages, that should be enough. -- Lahwaacz (talk) 17:44, 1 February 2014 (UTC)