Difference between revisions of "Talk:Beginners' guide"

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(What do you think about merging "Post-Installation" into "Installation" ?: re)
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:::I hope more users will post their opinion here, since this would be a substantial restructuring; I too promise that I will properly evaluate the idea and write my thoughts.
 
:::I hope more users will post their opinion here, since this would be a substantial restructuring; I too promise that I will properly evaluate the idea and write my thoughts.
 
:::-- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 14:12, 20 September 2012 (UTC)
 
:::-- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 14:12, 20 September 2012 (UTC)
 +
 +
== Guide structure overview ==
 +
I do not want to impose anything here, but in order to discuss the guide content, I think it would be easier to work on the table content first. So what do you think? How do you think we should move parts around?--[[User:Zeb|zeb]] ([[User talk:Zeb|talk]]) 11:11, 21 September 2012 (UTC)
 +
 +
    1 Preface
 +
        1.1 Introduction
 +
        1.2 License
 +
        1.3 The Arch Way
 +
        1.4 About this guide
 +
    2 Preparation
 +
        2.1 Obtain the latest installation media
 +
            2.1.1 Write the ISO image on a CD/DVD or USB stick
 +
            2.1.2 Install over the network
 +
            2.1.3 Install on a virtual machine
 +
        2.2 Boot Arch Linux Installation Media
 +
            2.2.1 Test if you are booted into UEFI mode
 +
            2.2.2 Troubleshooting boot problems
 +
    3 Installation
 +
        3.1 Change the language
 +
        3.2 Establish an internet connection
 +
            3.2.1 Wired
 +
            3.2.2 Wireless
 +
            3.2.3 xDSL (PPPoE), analog modem or ISDN
 +
            3.2.4 Behind a proxy server
 +
        3.3 Prepare the storage drive
 +
            3.3.1 Example
 +
        3.4 Mount the partitions
 +
        3.5 Select a mirror
 +
        3.6 Install the base system
 +
        3.7 Generate an fstab
 +
        3.8 Chroot and configure the base system
 +
            3.8.1 Locale
 +
            3.8.2 Console font and keymap
 +
            3.8.3 Timezone
 +
            3.8.4 Hardware clock
 +
            3.8.5 Kernel modules
 +
            3.8.6 Daemons
 +
            3.8.7 Hostname
 +
        3.9 Configure the network
 +
            3.9.1 Wired
 +
            3.9.2 Wireless
 +
            3.9.3 xDSL (PPPoE), analog modem or ISDN
 +
        3.10 Create an initial ramdisk environment
 +
        3.11 Install and configure a bootloader
 +
            3.11.1 For BIOS motherboards
 +
                3.11.1.1 Syslinux
 +
                3.11.1.2 GRUB
 +
            3.11.2 For UEFI motherboards
 +
                3.11.2.1 EFISTUB
 +
                3.11.2.2 GRUB
 +
        3.12 Set the root password
 +
        3.13 Unmount the partitions and reboot
 +
    4 Post-Installation
 +
        4.1 Configure pacman
 +
            4.1.1 Repositories
 +
            4.1.2 Mirrors
 +
        4.2 Update the system
 +
            4.2.1 Ignoring packages
 +
        4.3 Add a user
 +
            4.3.1 Interactive method
 +
            4.3.2 Non-interactive method
 +
            4.3.3 Deleting the user account
 +
            4.3.4 More information
 +
    5 Extra
 +
        5.1 Sudo
 +
        5.2 Sound
 +
        5.3 Graphical User Interface
 +
            5.3.1 Install X
 +
            5.3.2 Install a video driver
 +
                5.3.2.1 Intel integrated graphics
 +
                5.3.2.2 Nvidia cards
 +
                5.3.2.3 ATI/AMD cards
 +
                5.3.2.4 SiS cards
 +
            5.3.3 Install input drivers
 +
            5.3.4 Configure X
 +
            5.3.5 Test X
 +
                5.3.5.1 Troubleshooting
 +
            5.3.6 Fonts
 +
            5.3.7 Choose and install a graphical interface
 +
    6 Appendix

Revision as of 11:14, 21 September 2012

About

  1. Please make all editing suggestions here.
  2. Please keep discussions civil and productive.

Thanks. Misfit138 15:23, 22 October 2009 (EDT)

Merge two network config section

Most of this section is a repeat of info already presented earlier in the guide (most notably in 3.1.1).

I understand that directing users to 3.1.1 when they've already got a system up and running isn't that great of an idea since they are no longer in the live environment and some things are different (but not much!), but surely something can be done to reduce the redunancy (especially on the 4.1.2 Wireless LAN section, which is basically a 1:1 copy of 3.1.1.2) Xgamer99 19:49, 8 January 2011 (EST)

Went ahead and made the edit, as I can't see anything wrong with it. Please let me know if you disagree. However, I still believe that 4.1 should be re-worked and merged with 3.1.1, and just have 4.1 direct users to it. The only thing that would need to be added is the Proxy settings and manual wired connection (installer handles wired connections flawlessly, so manual activation isn't covered in 3.1.1). Xgamer99 04:00, 9 January 2011 (EST)
Reopen this discuss. Those two network configuration section still exist. They should be merged. -- Fengchao (talk) 10:16, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

Splitting the 'Installation' section in the split version?

Even after the split the Installation section is still a bit long. Couldn't it be split into two pages? --Det 07:24, 12 August 2011 (EDT)

Reiser4?

Reiser4 is by far a better choice for /var than ReiserFS, if you don't count the bugs that may still exist. The latest support is for 2.6.38 but is that a reason to not even mention it? --Det 11:02, 14 August 2011 (EDT)

Reiser4 is not supported by the installation media. Misfit138 21:16, 15 August 2011 (EDT)

Configuring /etc/pacman.conf

It would be useful to make new users aware of the benefits of enabling the multilib repository when installing 64-bit Arch. Currently the guide assumes that the defaults are fine but verification is recommended, which is good and true. However, a new user may not be aware of the purpose of multilib, and I think it would be good to inform them of its purpose so that they can make a more informed choice when editing their config files. Multilib is commented out in /etc/pacman.conf by default. --Rthomas6 15:08, 19 December 2011 (EST)

I agree. Go for it. Misfit138 22:04, 20 December 2011 (EST)

Beginners'_Guide#Need_Help.3F Re-direct?

I had created the IRC Collaborative Debugging page that details how to collect errors from programs, working from the console, and submitting via a pastebin service upload program. I think the details (what files need to be presented needs to stay) but the process of doing so can be re-directed? Any thoughts?

--Gen2ly (talk) 06:38, 12 May 2012 (UTC)

Let's see if I've understood correctly: what you want to do is move the "how" part from Beginners'_Guide#Need_Help.3F to IRC Collaborative Debugging? In that case, one observation I may make is that the section in the Beginners' Guide refers to the forums, not IRC: how would you deal with that? -- Kynikos (talk) 15:34, 13 May 2012 (UTC)
My reasoning for this edit would be that: because at this stage of the install if there are problems booting into the X11 environment using iRC may useful to some users simply for the reason of not having to boot into an alternate OS. Thinking about this some more though, I'm beginning to think this just adds extra details that the current method is most beneficial to the majority of the users.
--Gen2ly (talk) 02:11, 18 May 2012 (UTC)
An alternative could be to link to General Troubleshooting and move all troubleshooting/help-request guidelines there. -- Kynikos (talk) 10:04, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

Booting issues with NVIDIA

I have old desktop Dell OptiPlex 740 with video card: NVIDIA GeForce 6150 LE. I noticed some issue while booting the Arch from ISO. After a few init messages, the screen gets corrupted. The workaround is to pass nomodeset kernel options on boot. I think it is a good idea to add this with NVIDIA-specific section to troubleshooting section in the guide, or to General Troubleshooting article. --Mloskot (talk) 19:02, 14 July 2012 (UTC)

wireless set up for wpa

1.) One needs in addition the global option for wpa_supplicant configuration file:

here is the quote for original wpa_supplicant wiki

Global options

Lastly, you will need to specify some global options. Specify these additional lines at the top of /etc/wpa_supplicant.conf, with your editor of choice. The following is mandatory.

ctrl_interface=DIR=/var/run/wpa_supplicant GROUP=wheel
Note: For use with netcfg-2.6.1-1 in [testing] (as of 2011-06-25), this should be /run/wpa_supplicant (note: not /var/...). This will, however, break the default for wpa_cli (use the -p option to override). If this is not changed, one gets errors like "Failed to connect to wpa_supplicant - wpa_ctrl_open: no such file or directory".

There is a lot of optional parameters (have a look at /etc/wpa_supplicant/wpa_supplicant.conf). For example:

ap_scan=0
fast_reauth=1
Note: Your network information will be stored in plain text format; therefore, it may be desirable to change permissions on the newly created /etc/wpa_supplicant.conf file (e.g. chmod 0600 /etc/wpa_supplicant.conf to make it readable by root only), depending upon how security conscious you are.

Complete example

wp_supplicant.conf
ctrl_interface = DIR=/var/run/wpa_supplicant GROUP=wheel
fast_reauth = 1
ap_scan = 1

network ={
    ssid     = "mySSID"
    proto    = RSN
    key_mgmt = WPA-EAP
    pairwise = TKIP CCMP
    auth_alg = OPEN
    group    = TKIP
    eap      = PEAP
    identity = "myUsername"
    password = "********"
}



"fdisk" instead of "cfdisk"

According to the content of paragraph under [1] it's seems obvious to me that it should be "cfdisk /dev/sda" instead if "fdisk /dev/sda".

PS: I'm sorry for any possible mistake upthere, English is not my native language.

Separate /var and /usr

I run into problems because I forgot to mount my /var partition after chroot. Maybe you could provide a valid mounting example in the instruction.

"Mounting Partitions" does not correctly follow "Partitioning" Section

The Partitioning section refers to the root partition as sda1 but the Mounting Partitions section refers to the root partition as sda3. This may be confusing for new users?

Already under discussion at Talk:Beginners' Guide/Installation#Inconsistency between "create" and "mount" partitions. You can show your opinion there. -- Fengchao (talk) 00:38, 2 September 2012 (UTC)
That link does not work. hozza (talk) 07:32, 5 September 2012 (UTC)
Oh, a typo. Fixed. -- Fengchao (talk) 05:38, 6 September 2012 (UTC)

3.9.2 Wireless setup - 'dialog' package needed

I used a wired connection from section 3.2 to install the base system and decided to configure wireless at section 3.9.2.

After installing wireless_tools, netcfg,wpa_supplicant and wpa_actiond, running wifi-menu gives the following message: "Please install 'dialog' to use wifi-menu". Maybe the package dialog should be mentioned in this section, as well as how to install it.

What do you think about merging "Post-Installation" into "Installation" ?

At the end of the Installation section you are instructed to reboot. Then, in the Post-Installation section, you are instructed to update the system, and, if the linux package is updated (the Linux kernel), reboot again! This doesn't need to happen. Kernel updates come out all the time and if someone installs at the end of the month (i.e. before the new ISO comes out), chances are pretty high that the linux package will be updated. The user may forget to reboot and problems may come up when he notices that modules and other crap stop working.

Adding a regular user and updating the system could fit well into the install section. Because a Linux distribution isn't supposed to run only on the root account. Sure, Installation will be a bit longer, but this is why you're reading it, right? To install. And also, "Post-Installation" sounds silly, IMO. --DSpider (talk) 11:28, 9 September 2012 (UTC)

I still don't see a reason why there should be four parts instead of three. --DSpider (talk) 08:30, 20 September 2012 (UTC)
+1 for merge. Another choice is "Add a user" to "Extra", it already have a sudo section. And this can make "installatian" page a little short. -- Fengchao (talk) 09:36, 20 September 2012 (UTC)
I don't have the time to think if I'm pro or against right now, but I'm just quickly reminding that this merge would require adjusting at least the link in Installation Guide#Unmount leftovers.
About "Add a user", I don't think it would fit "Extra", since it's practically a required step (i.e. not an extra one).
I hope more users will post their opinion here, since this would be a substantial restructuring; I too promise that I will properly evaluate the idea and write my thoughts.
-- Kynikos (talk) 14:12, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

Guide structure overview

I do not want to impose anything here, but in order to discuss the guide content, I think it would be easier to work on the table content first. So what do you think? How do you think we should move parts around?--zeb (talk) 11:11, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

   1 Preface
       1.1 Introduction
       1.2 License
       1.3 The Arch Way
       1.4 About this guide
   2 Preparation
       2.1 Obtain the latest installation media
           2.1.1 Write the ISO image on a CD/DVD or USB stick
           2.1.2 Install over the network
           2.1.3 Install on a virtual machine
       2.2 Boot Arch Linux Installation Media
           2.2.1 Test if you are booted into UEFI mode
           2.2.2 Troubleshooting boot problems
   3 Installation
       3.1 Change the language
       3.2 Establish an internet connection
           3.2.1 Wired
           3.2.2 Wireless
           3.2.3 xDSL (PPPoE), analog modem or ISDN
           3.2.4 Behind a proxy server
       3.3 Prepare the storage drive
           3.3.1 Example
       3.4 Mount the partitions
       3.5 Select a mirror
       3.6 Install the base system
       3.7 Generate an fstab
       3.8 Chroot and configure the base system
           3.8.1 Locale
           3.8.2 Console font and keymap
           3.8.3 Timezone
           3.8.4 Hardware clock
           3.8.5 Kernel modules
           3.8.6 Daemons
           3.8.7 Hostname
       3.9 Configure the network
           3.9.1 Wired
           3.9.2 Wireless
           3.9.3 xDSL (PPPoE), analog modem or ISDN
       3.10 Create an initial ramdisk environment
       3.11 Install and configure a bootloader
           3.11.1 For BIOS motherboards
               3.11.1.1 Syslinux
               3.11.1.2 GRUB
           3.11.2 For UEFI motherboards
               3.11.2.1 EFISTUB
               3.11.2.2 GRUB
       3.12 Set the root password
       3.13 Unmount the partitions and reboot
   4 Post-Installation
       4.1 Configure pacman
           4.1.1 Repositories
           4.1.2 Mirrors
       4.2 Update the system
           4.2.1 Ignoring packages
       4.3 Add a user
           4.3.1 Interactive method
           4.3.2 Non-interactive method
           4.3.3 Deleting the user account
           4.3.4 More information
   5 Extra
       5.1 Sudo
       5.2 Sound
       5.3 Graphical User Interface
           5.3.1 Install X
           5.3.2 Install a video driver
               5.3.2.1 Intel integrated graphics
               5.3.2.2 Nvidia cards
               5.3.2.3 ATI/AMD cards
               5.3.2.4 SiS cards
           5.3.3 Install input drivers
           5.3.4 Configure X
           5.3.5 Test X
               5.3.5.1 Troubleshooting
           5.3.6 Fonts
           5.3.7 Choose and install a graphical interface
   6 Appendix