Talk:CUPS/Printer-specific problems

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Revision as of 12:08, 9 November 2015 by Aerion (talk | contribs) (→‎Merging issues: response to suggestions for bug report)
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Merging issues

I was the author of the Canon CAPT page.

While the CAPT installation procedure is indeed non-standard, this is the only way I have managed to successfully install a Canon LBP2900 via USB, and a Canon LBP6310dn via ethernet on both Arch Linux and Linux Mint on three separate computers. This prompted me to document the steps in the Wiki, after adapting them to Arch Linux from the original, linked, Ubuntu article.

Furthermore, adding a printer to CUPS using lpadmin is a perfectly valid method.

Did the person who questions the instructions even attempt to install a CAPT printer himself, before disputing the factual accuracy?

Canon's own installation instructions use this method, rather than a standard installation procedure using the CUPS web interface, although they don't work due to the port number being incorrect.

While CAPT printers are detected by, and can be added via the CUPS GUI, they do not work.

Removing the Accuracy Dispute notification. -- Aerion (talk) 12:59, 5 November 2015 (UTC)

Thanks! I don't have access to a Canon printer, so I just "dumped" the contents of Canon_CAPT, see [1], and then it was cleaned up by Lonaowna [2].
I picked the accuracy template as I was unsure as to why the instructions were so different, but I was unable to verify them myself; it was not meant as a slur of any kind against the original page. I'm glad that someone could verify that the instructions worked as intended! -- Pypi (talk) 18:29, 5 November 2015 (UTC)
Pypi, thanks for pointing out the revisions. I should have looked more closely (essentially, I didn't know I could look up who made which edits) and have asked you directly if you had any particular reason for your questioning of the accuracy. Apologies! -- Aerion (talk) 12:05, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
The accuracy template was placed correctly. When you claim the regular way isn't working, you file a bug report or refer to upstream resources when they explain why exactly something doesn't work. That way users can keep track of changes and can be made sure it's not a PEBKAC issue. -- Alad (talk) 19:42, 5 November 2015 (UTC)
I fail to understand here why the factual accuracy is disputed. The information is factual (I performed the installation steps myself, rather than merely copying instructions for a printer I don't own myself, and they are based on Canon's own installation guide) as well as accurate (after performing the steps you end up with a working printer as confirmed by myself, on three separate systems). I don't understand the need to file an upstream bug report when Canon's own installation manual does not provide a CUPS web interface method. There is no bug here, as Canon's official installation instructions clearly work.
Is there a policy for Arch Linux that I'm not aware of that stipulates that all printers must be installable via the CUPS GUI? I thought that Arch is a techie distro that doesn't shy away from command line instructions. lpadmin is a perfectly valid method to install/manage printers, so if this printer requires installation via the command line, surely a wiki page with instruction on how to do so is all that's needed?
I thought the whole point of the Arch wiki is to provide other users with information so that they don't have to struggle to get something working, and since this printer requires 'special' instructions, I feel this section is valid, relevant, warranted and accurate -- Aerion (talk) 12:05, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
Aerion, have you filed a bug report/figured out why adding it via the web interface didn't work? I'm more curious than anything else; I can't test your method here. -- Pypi (talk) 03:45, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
Pypi, I can't remember what exactly doesn't work when you try to add the printer via the web interface; it's been more than a year since I set them up. I think the printer URI protocol is completely wrong (should be ccp:// but it ends up as something else) but I could be wrong on that. One of the printers I don't have access to (it's at my sister's who lives abroad), and the other one (the very LBP6310dn I used in the instructions here, running on Arch Linux) is at a charity where I volunteer as an IT admin once or twice a month. When I get some time I could try and see what exactly happens when adding this printer via the web interface.
Since these printers are more complicated to get to work than your average Gutenprint or Foomatic supported printers due to their proprietary Canon Printer Daemon for CUPS (ccpd), I decided to add the instructions to the Arch wiki for the benefit of others. I didn't see any need to file a bug report as the instructions from Canon's own installation manual work. Furthermore, since Canon themselves don't provide a CUPS GUI installation method, I don't see a need to file a bug report for the GUI approach not working. Aerion (talk) 12:05, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

Page title

I think the title for this page isn't appropriate as it doesn't discuss any printer specific problems as such, but rather the installation instructions for specific printers.

In fact, I'm not convinced it is a good idea to have all these printers on a single wiki page. It makes the article unnecessarily long. It would make more sense to use this page as an index page, providing links to each specific printer's own wiki page (similar to the Autostarting page). This avoids the page becoming excessively long and complicated, whilst at the same time making it easier for users to find instructions for their specific printer.

Aerion (talk) 15:46, 5 November 2015 (UTC)

Possibly. There's a fair bit of discussion on Talk:CUPS; if you'd like to comment with any concerns over there, it would possibly be a better place. I'm not entirely sure about just having one page either, but it seems to work; there used to be about 20-30 brother pages, most of which were outdated direct copies of some other brother page. That was the main motivation for combining them. -- Pypi (talk) 19:16, 5 November 2015 (UTC)
Yes, this approach is by far more effective. At best you could argue for separate pages per manufacturer, but the sections aren't large enough for that. Closing this branch. -- Alad (talk) 19:45, 5 November 2015 (UTC)

Remote forwarding

I'm not clear on why this newly added section is required. How is the process different from that outlined on Secure_Shell#X11_forwarding? As mentioned, there are several ways of doing this - I don't think that there is enough in here, as I understand it, to outweigh the maintenance cost of duplication. Could Aerion clarify as to why this is required? -- Pypi (talk) 03:48, 6 November 2015 (UTC)

I've tried to edit that section now ([3] and [4]), however I'm not convinced that it is an improvement. The old way had some advantages - it was clearer, for a start - and the "new" way seems even more redundant. For instance, adding the autostart section as a "tip" seems OK, but it makes me think that it is largely redundant. Was it better as a tutorial? There would be a fair bit of research required to duplicate Aerion's findings, so it could be argued that the duplication was fairly minimal. Also, how well would that section age? Thoughts? Feel free to revert the main edits if I didn't do a very good job. -- Pypi (talk) 03:42, 9 November 2015 (UTC)