Difference between revisions of "Talk:Diskless system"

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(Per-host mountpoints (was: Separate /var))
(Bootstrapping installation: Two machines did not work)
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:::Re: mounting /var in initcpio: the "usr" hook does the same thing for a similar reason. This is a clean and sensible approach to an unusual problem. [[User:Giddie|Giddie]] ([[User talk:Giddie|talk]]) 21:12, 3 July 2013 (UTC)
 
:::Re: mounting /var in initcpio: the "usr" hook does the same thing for a similar reason. This is a clean and sensible approach to an unusual problem. [[User:Giddie|Giddie]] ([[User talk:Giddie|talk]]) 21:12, 3 July 2013 (UTC)
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:::: Absolutely not; the usr hook is required because things critical for starting late-boot like init (/usr/lib/systemd/systemd) are in /usr. At the same time, the real problem is that the user separated /usr for absolutely no reason--it's a hack to fix a hack, and certainly not best-practice.
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::::: Pretty much all of initcpio is a hack, but it's a necessary one: early boot is messy. I've been unable to find a way to make systemd mount /var early enough.  I believe I did manage to make it mount it first, before any other unit, but it still didn't work correctly: there were issues with NFS locks, etc.  Booting from NFS is a corner-case, and I think mounting /var in initcpio is a perfectly valid workaround for this issue. Feel free to search for a pure systemd-based solution. [[User:Giddie|Giddie]] ([[User talk:Giddie|talk]]) 09:39, 4 July 2013 (UTC)
  
 
== how to organize ==
 
== how to organize ==
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:::: Here is another idea: Instead of one index page for just [[Network Installation Guide]] and [[PXE]], we can add a index page about all of the different installation methods in [[:Category:Getting and installing Arch]]. There are 49 articles in the category, so a good index page can make them stay organized. -- [[User:Fengchao|Fengchao]] ([[User talk:Fengchao|talk]]) 13:14, 13 December 2012 (UTC)
 
:::: Here is another idea: Instead of one index page for just [[Network Installation Guide]] and [[PXE]], we can add a index page about all of the different installation methods in [[:Category:Getting and installing Arch]]. There are 49 articles in the category, so a good index page can make them stay organized. -- [[User:Fengchao|Fengchao]] ([[User talk:Fengchao|talk]]) 13:14, 13 December 2012 (UTC)
 
::::: This sounds like a good idea to me. [[User:Giddie|Giddie]] ([[User talk:Giddie|talk]]) 14:42, 13 December 2012 (UTC)
 
::::: This sounds like a good idea to me. [[User:Giddie|Giddie]] ([[User talk:Giddie|talk]]) 14:42, 13 December 2012 (UTC)
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== Bootstrapping installation ==
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Hello,
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Should we not include that the network drivers for the client machines be in the MODULES section at /etc/mkinitcpio.conf as [https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?pid=1321289#p1321289 SOLVED Diskless - ipconfig: no devices to configure] says?
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It worked just like a charm for me after hours trying to troubleshoot the network.  --[[User:Gbc921|Gabriel B. Casella]] ([[User talk:Gbc921|talk]]) 21:36, 24 January 2014 (UTC)
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: This isn't something that I ran into, but it sounds very sensible to me, if it is an issue for some. [[User:Giddie|Giddie]] ([[User talk:Giddie|talk]]) 10:27, 27 January 2014 (UTC)
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:: I tested in two different machines, one with intel (e1000e, if I'm not wrong) and one with Broadcom. Neither recognized them automatically. --[[User:Gbc921|Gabriel B. Casella]] ([[User talk:Gbc921|talk]]) 11:39, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

Revision as of 11:39, 27 January 2014

Per-host mountpoints (was: Separate /var)

I feel like treating just /var specially isn't fair. I mean, how would /etc feel? In all seriousness, I think this needs to be reorganized into something like "per-host special mountpoints". --Buhman (talk) 15:30, 12 December 2012 (UTC)

That sounds fine to me, if you want to do that. I'm pretty sure that /var contains everything that makes a host unique (or that's the intention), and I'm keen for people to think about it, since it's an added complication that can easily be overlooked when planning the cluster. Giddie (talk) 15:39, 12 December 2012 (UTC)
As I tried to imply somewhat, I still don't think its a good idea to do *all* of var, maybe a few application-specific subdirectories. For example it's actually desirable in a non-diskless scenario like this to put /var/cache/pacman on a NFS share--effectively working like a local repository mirror. Only in this scenario, we get that for free :D --Buhman (talk) 16:41, 12 December 2012 (UTC)
Yeah, in my setup I share /var/lib/pacman between all clients, and /var/cache/pacman between all clients and the host. Some other directories in /var/cache could probably be safely shared, but my general stance is to opt-in to sharing certain directories in /var for convenience (or storage space), rather than to determine which directories can't safely be shared. I have no problem with providing suggestions for both points of view ("share all of /var except for certain dirs" vs "/var is node-specific except for certain dirs"); it's helpful for readers to have a chance to consider both views and decide what fits their usecase best. Giddie (talk) 09:57, 13 December 2012 (UTC)
Re: mounting /var in initcpio: the "usr" hook does the same thing for a similar reason. This is a clean and sensible approach to an unusual problem. Giddie (talk) 21:12, 3 July 2013 (UTC)
Absolutely not; the usr hook is required because things critical for starting late-boot like init (/usr/lib/systemd/systemd) are in /usr. At the same time, the real problem is that the user separated /usr for absolutely no reason--it's a hack to fix a hack, and certainly not best-practice.
Pretty much all of initcpio is a hack, but it's a necessary one: early boot is messy. I've been unable to find a way to make systemd mount /var early enough. I believe I did manage to make it mount it first, before any other unit, but it still didn't work correctly: there were issues with NFS locks, etc. Booting from NFS is a corner-case, and I think mounting /var in initcpio is a perfectly valid workaround for this issue. Feel free to search for a pure systemd-based solution. Giddie (talk) 09:39, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

how to organize

Heh, we go back to 3+ articles again? :P We're actually agreeing here I think, but I would say "sub-articles" rather than dedicated articles--Buhman (talk) 10:22, 13 December 2012 (UTC)

Well, sub-articles does imply that the tasks are basically the same, which I don't think they are. I think they are very different tasks with different purposes, but which happen to share some configuration. No harm in a page that explains which article deals with what, I suppose. I don't feel too strongly about this, really. This is just what makes sense to me. Giddie (talk) 10:58, 13 December 2012 (UTC)
What would be really cool is if the reading went something like: the user reads about each of the ways that this could be done, then selects what he wants to see (whatever combinations), and then gets a tailored-to-order article with just the stuff he's interested in. --Buhman (talk) 10:16, 13 December 2012 (UTC)
I don't think that will be possible on this MediaWiki setup without the kind of duplication we're keen to avoid. Probably best to split out the common stuff into separate articles, and link from an article for each usecase. Giddie (talk) 10:19, 13 December 2012 (UTC)
Here is another idea: Instead of one index page for just Network Installation Guide and PXE, we can add a index page about all of the different installation methods in Category:Getting and installing Arch. There are 49 articles in the category, so a good index page can make them stay organized. -- Fengchao (talk) 13:14, 13 December 2012 (UTC)
This sounds like a good idea to me. Giddie (talk) 14:42, 13 December 2012 (UTC)

Bootstrapping installation

Hello,

Should we not include that the network drivers for the client machines be in the MODULES section at /etc/mkinitcpio.conf as SOLVED Diskless - ipconfig: no devices to configure says?

It worked just like a charm for me after hours trying to troubleshoot the network. --Gabriel B. Casella (talk) 21:36, 24 January 2014 (UTC)

This isn't something that I ran into, but it sounds very sensible to me, if it is an issue for some. Giddie (talk) 10:27, 27 January 2014 (UTC)
I tested in two different machines, one with intel (e1000e, if I'm not wrong) and one with Broadcom. Neither recognized them automatically. --Gabriel B. Casella (talk) 11:39, 27 January 2014 (UTC)