Difference between revisions of "Talk:Diskless system"

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== Diskless_Network_Boot_NBD_Root merge and rewrite ==
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== how to organize ==
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Heh, we go back to 3+ articles again? :P We're actually agreeing here I think, but I would say "sub-articles" rather than dedicated articles--[[User:Buhman|Buhman]] ([[User talk:Buhman|talk]]) 10:22, 13 December 2012 (UTC)
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: Well, sub-articles does imply that the tasks are basically the same, which I don't think they are.  I think they are very different tasks with different purposes, but which happen to share some configuration.  No harm in a page that explains which article deals with what, I suppose.  I don't feel too strongly about this, really.  This is just what makes sense to me. [[User:Giddie|Giddie]] ([[User talk:Giddie|talk]]) 10:58, 13 December 2012 (UTC)
  
There was a bunch of extraneous stuff that was clogging up the old articles, and most information was duplicated between the two. This is the result of the cleanup effort. That gPXE stuff, for example, deserves its own article in my opinion. Yet-another refactoring/merging of the related [[PXE]] article is also planned--the two should be sub-articles of a larger "PXE" article that describes "PXE" in general, with sub-articles describing booting installation media or an arch installation (minimizing duplicated information yet even more). --[[User:Buhman|Buhman]] ([[User talk:Buhman|talk]]) 14:31, 9 October 2012 (UTC)
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:: What would be really cool is if the reading went something like: the user reads about each of the ways that this could be done, then selects what he wants to see (whatever combinations), and then gets a tailored-to-order article with just the stuff he's interested in. --[[User:Buhman|Buhman]] ([[User talk:Buhman|talk]]) 10:16, 13 December 2012 (UTC)
  
== DNSmasq ==
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::: I don't think that will be possible on this MediaWiki setup without the kind of duplication we're keen to avoid.  Probably best to split out the common stuff into separate articles, and link from an article for each usecase. [[User:Giddie|Giddie]] ([[User talk:Giddie|talk]]) 10:19, 13 December 2012 (UTC)
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:::: Here is another idea: Instead of one index page for just [[Network Installation Guide]] and [[PXE]], we can add a index page about all of the different installation methods in [[Getting and installing Arch]]. There are 49 articles in the category, so a good index page can make them stay organized. -- [[User:Fengchao|Fengchao]] ([[User talk:Fengchao|talk]]) 13:14, 13 December 2012 (UTC)
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::::: This sounds like a good idea to me. [[User:Giddie|Giddie]] ([[User talk:Giddie|talk]]) 14:42, 13 December 2012 (UTC)
  
If DNSmasq is not appropriate for the job, please write a section explaining why this is the case.  Since I use dnsmasq, I'd be interested to know why exactly you think it's not appropriate.  What definitely is not appropriate, however, is undoing my edits, for which I've gone to pains to explain my reasoning. [[User:Giddie|Giddie]] ([[User talk:Giddie|talk]]) 10:38, 11 December 2012 (UTC)
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== Bootstrapping installation ==
  
: No, we don't write sections explaining why sections don't exist. That's just plain stupid. --[[User:Buhman|Buhman]] ([[User talk:Buhman|talk]]) 10:42, 11 December 2012 (UTC)
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Hello,
  
:: We write sections explaining why an obvious choice is actually not a good idea, so others can be informed and avoid the same mistake. (Assuming they agree that it is actually a mistake.)  Seriously: this wiki is not here to reflect only your own opinions; it's here so that we can '''all''' share our knowledge. It's all about collaboration and compromise, and I'm seeing very little of that from you right now. [[User:Giddie|Giddie]] ([[User talk:Giddie|talk]]) 11:34, 11 December 2012 (UTC)
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Should we not include that the network drivers for the client machines be in the MODULES section at /etc/mkinitcpio.conf as [https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?pid=1321289#p1321289 SOLVED Diskless - ipconfig: no devices to configure] says?
  
::: dnsmasq is a problem because it's a little unwieldy primarily due to its crazy amount of scope-creep. What was originally just a dns server got way out of hand. If you say things like listen-address=192.168.0.1, that is only applicable for the DNS part, and not, e.g: DHCP. This becomes problematic if say you want your {{pkg|hostapd}} stuff that also runs isc-dhcp just on wlan0, and then decide you want to PXE boot some stuff off the wired-lan really quick. Nope; have to shut down dhcpd4 to allow dnsmasq to hog all the interfaces and bind wildcard on everything BUT dns. But oh wait, you said port=0? That controls what, just DNS? So DNS is disabled now, and listen-address in this case does absolutely nothing, as well as listen-interface.
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It worked just like a charm for me after hours trying to troubleshoot the network. --[[User:Gbc921|Gabriel B. Casella]] ([[User talk:Gbc921|talk]]) 21:36, 24 January 2014 (UTC)
  
::: It's just a dirty ugly quick "omfg I want dhcp+tftp NAOW" hack, rather than something that should be considered sane to actually systemctl enable. Lots of features, really crappy defaults, and, most importantly, no way to un-configure those defaults (aside from making a fork that would just end up being a less-good isc bind/tftp/dhcp). And compared to bind it's a lousy DNS server anyway. So why it even exists I don't know.
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: This isn't something that I ran into, but it sounds very sensible to me, if it is an issue for some. [[User:Giddie|Giddie]] ([[User talk:Giddie|talk]]) 10:27, 27 January 2014 (UTC)
  
::: Nothing against you personally; I've, as you can see from the history, reverted dnsmasq edits before. --[[User:Buhman|Buhman]] ([[User talk:Buhman|talk]]) 16:37, 12 December 2012 (UTC)
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:: I tested in two different machines, one with intel (e1000e, if I'm not wrong) and one with Broadcom. Neither recognized them automatically. --[[User:Gbc921|Gabriel B. Casella]] ([[User talk:Gbc921|talk]]) 11:39, 27 January 2014 (UTC)
  
:::: I'm content enough with the note, so that people can at least inform themselves and make their own decision.  So I think we've reached a settlement :) [[User:Giddie|Giddie]] ([[User talk:Giddie|talk]]) 09:47, 13 December 2012 (UTC)
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::: I had some trouble with driver modules... also I had to add the nfs modules. Not sure if all are needed, but in the end, this worked:
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:::: MODULES="igb bnx2 e1000e ixgbe e1000 r8169 virtio_net virtio_blk virtio_pci virtio_ring virtio lockd nfs nfsv4 oid_registry rpcsec_gss_krb5 sunrpc"
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:::: [[User:Peetaur|Peetaur]] ([[User talk:Peetaur|talk]]) 12:04, 31 July 2015 (UTC)
  
==Moderation==
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== Client installation ==
This article seems to be undergoing an edit war between [[User:Buhman]] and [[User:Giddie]], and this is bad for the wiki and its users: I remind both users that the articles of the wiki belong to everybody and can't be treated as personal notebooks. Entering more into the merits of the discussion, I also remind that it's a common policy of the ArchWiki to always explain all the possible ways to achieve a particular result, never hiding anything and always leaving the final choice to the end users; if some methods are working but discouraged for some reasons, they are to be left in the article together with those reasons of discouragement; if some methods are working only under some conditions, these conditions are to be described, possibly adding an appropriate [[:Category:Template#Article_status_templates|article status template]]. Different subsections can be created to keep the various methods separate.
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Hello,
  
Furthermore, I invite to always sign with the full signature in discussion pages (<nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>) and to always thoroughly justify the edits with the edit summary, avoiding expressions like "why the fsck was this even created?" or empty summaries (in particular when undoing edits), since these practices don't help in any way. Finally, please avoid expressions like "NFSv3 sucks", "Kthx", "I couldn't care less about your migration woes; it doesn't belong on the wiki, end of discussion", "That's just plain stupid", ... since this '''is''' considered ''flaming'', and flamers are not welcome here, regardless of the effective quality of their edits.
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pacstrap ends with error (205499 blocks need, 175865 blocks available) with "truncate -s 1G /srv/arch.img". I tried change to 2G and all seems ok. Maybe article needs change?
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--[[User:Stempit|Stempit]] ([[User talk:Stempit|talk]]) 17:12, 08 August 2017 (UTC)
  
This section is more of a notice than a real discussion, so replies are not expected, please go on with the other discussions peacefully and constructively: once the situation has calmed down, this section can just be deleted.
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== Server configuration ==
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"Next, start NFS services: rpc-idmapd rpc-mountd."
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# [root@MUSIC srv]# systemctl status rpc-idmapd rpc-mountd
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Unit rpc-idmapd.service could not be found.
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Unit rpc-mountd.service could not be found.
  
-- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 14:39, 12 December 2012 (UTC)
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But
  
: As you wish, my Lord. --[[User:Buhman|Buhman]] ([[User talk:Buhman|talk]]) 16:39, 12 December 2012 (UTC)
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# systemctl status nfs-idmapd nfs-mountd
  
== Per-host mountpoints (was: Separate /var) ==
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works. But i'am not sure. [[User:Stempit|Stempit]] ([[User talk:Stempit|talk]]) 08:50, 10 August 2017 (UTC)
  
I feel like treating just {{ic|/var}} specially isn't fair. I mean, how would {{ic|/etc}} feel? In all seriousness, I think this needs to be reorganized into something like "per-host special mountpoints". --[[User:Buhman|Buhman]] ([[User talk:Buhman|talk]]) 15:30, 12 December 2012 (UTC)
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== NBD tutorial needs more explanation ==
  
: That sounds fine to me, if you want to do that. I'm pretty sure that {{ic|/var}} contains everything that makes a host unique (or that's the intention), and I'm keen for people to think about it, since it's an added complication that can easily be overlooked when planning the cluster. [[User:Giddie|Giddie]] ([[User talk:Giddie|talk]]) 15:39, 12 December 2012 (UTC)
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When using NBD a new user is added as given in the '/etc/nbd-server/config' file, using this example it is 'nbd'. When using the 'copyonwrite' (if set to true) parameter, nbd will use the same folder to store the cache as the folder of the given export. Because 'nbd' is a user it needs to own this folder (chown <folder>) in order to be able to write cache files in it. Without this adjustment any 'copyonwrite' nbd pxe boot will crash on boot, saying 'received invalid negotiation magic'.
  
:: As I tried to imply somewhat, I still don't think its a good idea to do *all* of var, maybe a few application-specific subdirectories. For example it's actually desirable in a non-diskless scenario like this to put /var/cache/pacman on a NFS share--effectively working like a local repository mirror. Only in this scenario, we get that for free :D --[[User:Buhman|Buhman]] ([[User talk:Buhman|talk]]) 16:41, 12 December 2012 (UTC)
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Alternatively you can give nbd a custom folder, to write its files (using the parameter 'cowdir=/path/to/use' ). This folder also needs to be owned by the user 'nb1d'.
  
::: Yeah, in my setup I share {{ic|/var/lib/pacman}} between all clients, and {{ic|/var/cache/pacman}} between all clients and the host. Some other directories in {{ic|/var/cache}} could probably be safely shared, but my general stance is to opt-in to sharing certain directories in {{ic|/var}} for convenience (or storage space), rather than to determine which directories can't safely be shared.  I have no problem with providing suggestions for both points of view ("share all of /var except for certain dirs" vs "/var is node-specific except for certain dirs"); it's helpful for readers to have a chance to consider both views and decide what fits their usecase best. [[User:Giddie|Giddie]] ([[User talk:Giddie|talk]]) 09:57, 13 December 2012 (UTC)
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Please add this to the 'Diskless system' explanation of 'copyonwrite' usage. It took me a long time to find this solution (and read about lots of people skipping nbd because of this):
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[https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=172249 solution]
  
== Is installation ISO needed ? ==
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{{Unsigned|14:43, 15 July 2018 (UTC)|ArchB}}
I am trying to merge [[PXE]] into this article. While I am quite familiar with PXE, I do not know what exactly need to be done in the Network installation guide. Should I download ISO installation media? Where to put/get installation packages? -- [[User:Fengchao|Fengchao]] ([[User talk:Fengchao|talk]]) 04:44, 13 December 2012 (UTC)
 
 
 
: [[PXE]] talks about booting installation media via PXE, whereas this article talks about creating an installation from an already-installed system. A proper merge will be highly difficult in my opinion, which is why I have not yet attempted it. --[[User:Buhman|Buhman]] ([[User talk:Buhman|talk]]) 08:16, 13 December 2012 (UTC)
 
 
 
: The article titles are currently very non-helpful in determining what the content of each article is, but I'm not confident on how to fix this. For example "Network Installation" could mean both booting installation media via a network, or, as used in this article, creating an installation that happens to exist on network'ed storage media. In all cases, for example, you end up 1) preparing the TFTP root, whether it be a mounted Archiso, or part of a complete installation 2) actually setting up a TFTP and DHCP server, and the only real difference is 3) what exactly is contained on the root filesystem and how it is delivered to the client. I would love to hear ideas on how to reorganize this sanely. --[[User:Buhman|Buhman]] ([[User talk:Buhman|talk]]) 09:38, 13 December 2012 (UTC)
 
 
 
: I think this article should be called something more like "Diskless ArchLinux System", whereas [[PXE]] could maybe be called "Network-booting Installation Media"? [[User:Giddie|Giddie]] ([[User talk:Giddie|talk]]) 10:04, 13 December 2012 (UTC)
 
 
 
:: Well, the goal is to actually merge the two and just have sub-articles for each topic. Historically, this article was called [[Diskless_network_boot_NFS_root]], but in a never-finished attempt to unify all of the duplicated "how to do thus and such with PXE; let me verbatim copy 90% of one article, and then write about a paragraph of original stuff, and call it a new article" efforts, I renamed it to the more-generic "Network Installation Guide". The idea there was to mimic [[Installation Guide]], with the emphasis that the installation media resides on the network. The problem with that is that *clearly* isn't obvious until I explain it. I think there should also be a article named [[PXE]] (for googlers if anything else) if only to redirect to some more-specific article (but optimally the uber-merge that I think would be best). --[[User:Buhman|Buhman]] ([[User talk:Buhman|talk]]) 10:12, 13 December 2012 (UTC)
 
 
 
::: What would be really cool is if the reading went something like: the user reads about each of the ways that this could be done, then selects what he wants to see (whatever combinations), and then gets a tailored-to-order article with just the stuff he's interested in. --[[User:Buhman|Buhman]] ([[User talk:Buhman|talk]]) 10:16, 13 December 2012 (UTC)
 

Latest revision as of 07:19, 27 September 2018

how to organize

Heh, we go back to 3+ articles again? :P We're actually agreeing here I think, but I would say "sub-articles" rather than dedicated articles--Buhman (talk) 10:22, 13 December 2012 (UTC)

Well, sub-articles does imply that the tasks are basically the same, which I don't think they are. I think they are very different tasks with different purposes, but which happen to share some configuration. No harm in a page that explains which article deals with what, I suppose. I don't feel too strongly about this, really. This is just what makes sense to me. Giddie (talk) 10:58, 13 December 2012 (UTC)
What would be really cool is if the reading went something like: the user reads about each of the ways that this could be done, then selects what he wants to see (whatever combinations), and then gets a tailored-to-order article with just the stuff he's interested in. --Buhman (talk) 10:16, 13 December 2012 (UTC)
I don't think that will be possible on this MediaWiki setup without the kind of duplication we're keen to avoid. Probably best to split out the common stuff into separate articles, and link from an article for each usecase. Giddie (talk) 10:19, 13 December 2012 (UTC)
Here is another idea: Instead of one index page for just Network Installation Guide and PXE, we can add a index page about all of the different installation methods in Getting and installing Arch. There are 49 articles in the category, so a good index page can make them stay organized. -- Fengchao (talk) 13:14, 13 December 2012 (UTC)
This sounds like a good idea to me. Giddie (talk) 14:42, 13 December 2012 (UTC)

Bootstrapping installation

Hello,

Should we not include that the network drivers for the client machines be in the MODULES section at /etc/mkinitcpio.conf as SOLVED Diskless - ipconfig: no devices to configure says?

It worked just like a charm for me after hours trying to troubleshoot the network. --Gabriel B. Casella (talk) 21:36, 24 January 2014 (UTC)

This isn't something that I ran into, but it sounds very sensible to me, if it is an issue for some. Giddie (talk) 10:27, 27 January 2014 (UTC)
I tested in two different machines, one with intel (e1000e, if I'm not wrong) and one with Broadcom. Neither recognized them automatically. --Gabriel B. Casella (talk) 11:39, 27 January 2014 (UTC)
I had some trouble with driver modules... also I had to add the nfs modules. Not sure if all are needed, but in the end, this worked:
MODULES="igb bnx2 e1000e ixgbe e1000 r8169 virtio_net virtio_blk virtio_pci virtio_ring virtio lockd nfs nfsv4 oid_registry rpcsec_gss_krb5 sunrpc"
Peetaur (talk) 12:04, 31 July 2015 (UTC)

Client installation

Hello,

pacstrap ends with error (205499 blocks need, 175865 blocks available) with "truncate -s 1G /srv/arch.img". I tried change to 2G and all seems ok. Maybe article needs change? --Stempit (talk) 17:12, 08 August 2017 (UTC)

Server configuration

"Next, start NFS services: rpc-idmapd rpc-mountd."

# [root@MUSIC srv]# systemctl status rpc-idmapd rpc-mountd
Unit rpc-idmapd.service could not be found.
Unit rpc-mountd.service could not be found.

But

# systemctl status nfs-idmapd nfs-mountd

works. But i'am not sure. Stempit (talk) 08:50, 10 August 2017 (UTC)

NBD tutorial needs more explanation

When using NBD a new user is added as given in the '/etc/nbd-server/config' file, using this example it is 'nbd'. When using the 'copyonwrite' (if set to true) parameter, nbd will use the same folder to store the cache as the folder of the given export. Because 'nbd' is a user it needs to own this folder (chown <folder>) in order to be able to write cache files in it. Without this adjustment any 'copyonwrite' nbd pxe boot will crash on boot, saying 'received invalid negotiation magic'.

Alternatively you can give nbd a custom folder, to write its files (using the parameter 'cowdir=/path/to/use' ). This folder also needs to be owned by the user 'nb1d'.

Please add this to the 'Diskless system' explanation of 'copyonwrite' usage. It took me a long time to find this solution (and read about lots of people skipping nbd because of this): solution

—This unsigned comment is by ArchB (talk) 14:43, 15 July 2018 (UTC). Please sign your posts with ~~~~!