Difference between revisions of "Talk:Installation guide"

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(Install from Existing Linux)
(Install from Existing Linux: implemented with modification)
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:-- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 10:20, 18 November 2013 (UTC)
 
:-- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 10:20, 18 November 2013 (UTC)
  
== Install from Existing Linux ==
+
==<s>Install from Existing Linux</s>==
  
 
Having a reference to [[Install from Existing Linux]] somewhere around the top of the article would be really helpful, as such method is otherwise too difficult to find.
 
Having a reference to [[Install from Existing Linux]] somewhere around the top of the article would be really helpful, as such method is otherwise too difficult to find.
 
[[User:Rvalles|Rvalles]] ([[User talk:Rvalles|talk]]) 04:18, 29 November 2013 (UTC)
 
[[User:Rvalles|Rvalles]] ([[User talk:Rvalles|talk]]) 04:18, 29 November 2013 (UTC)
 +
 +
:That's not the only other installation guide we could link to, for the moment I've [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Installation_Guide&diff=285411&oldid=283482 linked] to the generic category. If/when the Beginners' Guide will be finally merged with this one we'll probably be able to introduce the other various installation guides in a proper section. -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 12:32, 30 November 2013 (UTC)

Revision as of 12:32, 30 November 2013

Read this first before add new suggestion

  • Point of this page is to not become another Beginner's guide. It's meant to be a concise checklist of things to be done. So detailed install instruction should go to Beginners' Guide.
  • If there is something to discuss which should also affect the Beginner's guide, then do it on Talk:Beginners' Guide. An advanced user will find this page less bloated and easier to read, so let's KISS.

Change section "Connect to the internet"

Since the installation guide is now part of the iso image, I'd like to see a few references to the manpages of the necessary tools here, since you cannot open the network related wiki pages. Maybe something like this would be acceptable:

  Assuming a wired ethernet connection, running dhclient or dhcpcd is 
  sufficient to get a lease. Otherwise set up the connection manually
  using ip add, wpa_supplicant (WLAN with WPA), pppoe-setup (DSL), etc.
  You can also create and use netcfg profiles. Read more in the manpages:
  ip(8), wpa_supplicant(8), pppoe(8), netcfg(8), netcfg-profiles(5)

A reminder to install the packages for the internet connection in the pacstrap section would also be nice. -- progandy

Suggestions to update this guide as part of ISO

Since this guide is now being included as 'install.txt' in the ISO, it might be beneficial to incorporate the following changes:

  • Entirely remove the 1. Download section and move it to the Download area of the archlinux.org page. This document here is about installing, not downloading, checking, burning discs or dd'ing. The majority of users reading this have likely already booted up the install medium.
  • Begin or end the document by mentioning the new archlinux(7) man page which explains the location of important system configuration files
# man archlinux
  • Slightly expand the 6. Connect to the internet section to include the most basic examples of setting up a private network using a dynamic and static IP address. (Right now it's only a single paragraph/line.) It's a vital installation step and should actually be moved to the top as one of the first actions during system setup. This fact should be emphasized.

Obtain dynamic IP

# dhcpcd

Set static IP

# ip link set dev eth0 up
# ip addr add 192.168.1.2/24 dev eth0
# ip route add default via 192.168.1.1
# echo "nameserver 8.8.8.8" >> /etc/resolv.conf

--MajorTom

  • I can agree to all your suggestions, I wonder why no one is modifying the wiki. Internet connection setup is the most important part and should be covered more extensively. In addition to your changes, mention the manpages and configuration templates for netcfg and pppoe-setup/connect. The boot medium must at least contain easy accesible information in order to read all pages referenced in the installation guide. There should also be mentioned that elinks is installed and can be used to access the wiki. --Progandy (talk) 21:50, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
  • The dhcpcd network daemon is started automatically: [1], [2], so there's no reason to start it manually. --DSpider (talk) 08:17, 25 August 2012 (UTC)

add a step: setting the clock

Lots of things care about the clock being more-or-less correct, e.g. pacman-key will not work at all if the clock is too far out. Lots of brand new computers come with the clock set to something in the distant past, which causes weird problems during the install. Thetrivialstuff (talk) 23:14, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

I agree, the instructions in "Installation Guide" leaves you without a /etc/adjtime file. The following should be added (taken from beginners guide, but shortened): Set the hardware clock and generate a /etc/adjtime file with # hwclock --systohc --utc or # hwclock --systohc --localtime Bwid (talk) 08:03, 3 March 2013 (UTC)

There's no need for an adjtime file, but it does make sense to have people use timedatectl from the live media to set the clock correctly. -- thestinger (talk) 03:30, 15 March 2013 (UTC)

pacman-key --init / populate?

Isn't this a required step? pacstrap does not seem to do it on its own. Thetrivialstuff (talk) 23:15, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

Edit: Ah; I think this was related to the "set the clock" step -- I see that there is a pacman keyring init in the boot sequence of the latest media, but it (silently?) fails if the local clock is wrong.
https://mailman.archlinux.org/pipermail/arch-releng/2012-July/002708.html --Bluewind (talk) 09:10, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

This really need to be included on tutorial before pacstrap. Otherwise it will not work. Michelboaventura (talk) 16:49, 20 September 2013 (UTC)

Proposed changes to Beginners' Guide and link to Post-Installation

Some major changes are under discussion in Talk:Beginners'_Guide#Guide_restructuring: some of them would require adjustments to this very guide, see for example this post.

Please reply in the linked discussion, not here.

-- Kynikos (talk) 12:15, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

I've added the steps in Beginners' Guide/Post-Installation to this guide, which now directly sends users to Beginners' Guide/Extra.
If however Talk:Beginners' Guide#Guide restructuring will be implemented as planned, the Beginners' Guide will have a slightly different installation procedure than this guide, unless this one is updated too.
-- Kynikos (talk) 14:08, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
Shouldn't the information be added before "Unmount leftovers and reboot" ? By the way, the title should mention rebooting, because most likely a kernel update was involved. --DSpider (talk) 14:41, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
The link to Post-Installation was the last step of the guide, so that's the line I've replaced with the instructions from Post-Installation.
About rebooting in case of a kernel upgrade, I don't think it's necessary to state that since this guide is aimed at experienced users.
In any case, any reordering or modification of the various steps should better be approved by a Developer, and probably the forum or the mailing lists are better places than this talk page to involve them in such discussions.
-- Kynikos (talk) 14:59, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
Yeah, but at this point, you were instructed to reboot. In order to edit pacman.conf, you need to mount the root partition. And to update your system, you need to chroot into it. It would be better if "Unmount leftovers" was renamed "Unmount leftovers and reboot", and added at the end (before the suggestion to read the instructions from Extra). --DSpider (talk) 15:07, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
You are still instructed to reboot, aren't you? The "Unmount leftovers" section currently tells you to "reboot and then login into the new system with the root account". In the "new system", the correct partition is already mounted at /.
Whether or not configuring pacman, updating the system and adding a user would be better done in the chroot before rebooting, it's something that should be discussed with a Developer. I too think that it would make more sense, requiring one less reboot in case of a kernel upgrade.
-- Kynikos (talk) 15:18, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
Renaming "Unmount leftovers" to "Unmount leftovers and reboot" is safe anyway, so I've done that. -- Kynikos (talk) 15:37, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
@DSpider: you're quite active on the forum, why don't you propose your idea there? I think it would be interesting to discuss it. -- Kynikos (talk) 14:11, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
Ok, after reading this I realize that maybe I haven't been clear enough, so I'll try to explain everything more thoroughly.
  1. The current procedure makes you configure the system in the chroot environment from the live system.
  2. Then, still in the live system, it asks you to exit the chroot, unmount the partitions for the new system, reboot and login into the new system. Now, I refuse to write more explicitly in the guide that you should boot into the new system, and not again in the live system, in order to login into the new system.
  3. Since you are now into the new system (not the live system), the root partition is mounted at /, not at /mnt/, so you should be able to configure pacman, update the system and add a user wihtout chrooting. Now, if you've tested the procedure and really noticed that for some obscure-to-me reason you still need to chroot to /mnt in order to do those operations, please ask for clarifications in the forum because I wouldn't be able to answer any more.
Last thing, and I think this is the 3rd or 4th time I write it, I agree with you that configuring pacman etc. could easily be done in the chroot environment at step 1, but you should propose that change in the forum first, since it would be a change in the official installation procedure and I won't take responsibility for that.
I think this is the best I can do here, the next step to explain all this could be making a movie or a five-act play, but I hope it's not necessary :)
-- Kynikos (talk) 05:56, 30 September 2012 (UTC)

Mounting the Swap partition.

Just a note to clarify the swap partition is NOT mounted. You will get an error message if you try.

Turning on the partition with swapon command will have the desired effect of having it activated before you add it to /etc/fstab. --CaptainK (talk) 07:56, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

Hardware compatibility List

The Installation Guide should refer to the Hardware compatibility List at https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/HCL in case specific kernel parameters are needed for the mainboard. --Qqqqqqqqq9 (talk) 09:32, 1 August 2013 (UTC)

-1. The info in HCL is quite out of date so it should not be linked. -- Fengchao (talk) 13:13, 3 August 2013 (UTC)

base is redundant in pacstrap command

pacstrap /mnt

works just fine. base is installed by default. KISS, right? I'd do it myself, except it seems regular users don't have permission to edit this page.

Ewtoombs (talk) 22:54, 10 September 2013 (UTC)

simplify umount

# umount /mnt/{boot,home,}

could be replaced with

# umount -R /mnt

which will umount everything under /mnt recursively. This is simpler because the user doesn't have to explicitly specify everything he mounted under /mnt. 65kid (talk) 11:53, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

Done. Thanks. -- Fengchao (talk) 00:28, 27 October 2013 (UTC)

Clarify that vconsole.conf must be created

Example: "Add console keymap and font preferences in /etc/vconsole.conf. This file must be created by you."

Please read #Read this first before add new suggestion, first point... Lahwaacz (talk) 20:46, 5 October 2013 (UTC)

genfstab, add -U for uuid

see heading

Add quick note for order in mount section

Would like to see a quick note stating that / should be mount before the other partitions or un-intentional unmounts will occur. I've installed Arch several times before, but forgetting this tiny tid-bit had me really confused for hours.

(Please sign your edits in talk pages, see Help:Discussion)
Does [3] make it clear enough?
-- Kynikos (talk) 01:23, 16 November 2013 (UTC)
Close. I would like an explicit order word in there. Maybe the first sentence to mount root should use the word "First". Or perhaps instead of "then" say "Followed by". I can understand wanting to cut out wordy-ness here, so it's really your discretion. Thanks for considering this.
All right, I've changed "then" to "after that", which does feel stronger. -- Kynikos (talk) 07:27, 17 November 2013 (UTC)

ATI video Driver

Modify Propietary ATI catalyst reference

Better fix: [4] :)
Please update Xorg#Driver installation and/or AMD Catalyst if needed.
-- Kynikos (talk) 10:20, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

Install from Existing Linux

Having a reference to Install from Existing Linux somewhere around the top of the article would be really helpful, as such method is otherwise too difficult to find. Rvalles (talk) 04:18, 29 November 2013 (UTC)

That's not the only other installation guide we could link to, for the moment I've linked to the generic category. If/when the Beginners' Guide will be finally merged with this one we'll probably be able to introduce the other various installation guides in a proper section. -- Kynikos (talk) 12:32, 30 November 2013 (UTC)