Difference between revisions of "Talk:Installation guide"

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(Keymaps)
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== Read this first before add new suggestion ==
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== Read this first before adding new suggestions ==
* Point of this page is to ''not'' become another Beginner's guide. It's meant to be a ''concise'' checklist of things to be done. So detailed install instruction should go to [[Beginners' Guide]].
 
* If there is something to discuss which should also affect the Beginner's guide, then do it on [[Talk:Beginners%27_Guide/Installation]]. An advanced user will find this page less bloated and easier to read, so let's KISS.
 
  
== Prominently link to [[Beginners' Guide]] ==
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* systemd tools such as ''hostnamectl'', ''timedatectl'' and ''localectl'' [https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/798#issuecomment-126568596 do not work] in the installation chroot environment, so please do not propose to use them in the guide unless you can prove that they have been made to work also in that case. See [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Talk:Beginners%27_guide&oldid=388727#General_problems], [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Talk:Beginners%27_guide&oldid=404695#Replace_commands_with_their_systemd_equivalents], [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Talk:Beginners%27_guide&oldid=418662#Utilizing_systemd_tools] and [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Talk:Installation_guide&oldid=434985#change_configuration_system_from_old_way_to_new_way.28using_systemd_commands.29] for some past discussions about this issue.
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* {{ic|localectl list-keymaps}} does not work due to bug {{Bug|46725}}. For the chosen replacement command, see [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Talk:Beginners%27_guide&oldid=435044#localectl].
  
From https://www.archlinux.org new users who want to install Arch are likely to end up here, while for them the [[Beginners' Guide]] is a much better fit. IMHO this should be noted in the introductionary paragraphs. --[[User:Raboof|Raboof]] ([[User talk:Raboof|talk]]) 18:14, 3 March 2013 (UTC)
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-- [[ArchWiki:Administrators|The ArchWiki Administrators]] 22:17, 2 September 2016 (UTC)
:I plan on improving this to the point where that shouldn't be necessary. Feedback on what needs to be added here to fill any gaps would be helpful. It's not going to duplicate high quality pages though. If they're not approachable for beginners it should be fixed there instead of duplicated. [[User:Thestinger|thestinger]] ([[User talk:Thestinger|talk]]) 03:27, 15 March 2013 (UTC)
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__TOC__
  
:Meaning in the future there ''will'' be no beginner's guide? --[[User:Ewtoombs|Ewtoombs]] ([[User talk:Ewtoombs|talk]]) 17:21, 16 March 2013 (UTC)
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== pacman-key --populate ==
::Well I'm not setting out to delete it, but the purpose of having an entirely separate guide for beginners should begin to fade away. [[User:Thestinger|thestinger]] ([[User talk:Thestinger|talk]]) 09:03, 1 April 2013 (UTC)
 
  
== Change section "Connect to the internet" ==
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:''[Moved from [[Talk:Beginners' guide]]. -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 20:38, 12 July 2016 (UTC)]''
  
Since the installation guide is now part of the iso image, I'd like to see a few references to the manpages of the necessary tools here, since you cannot open the network related wiki pages. Maybe something like this would be acceptable:
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Reference: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Beginners%27_guide&diff=next&oldid=411670
  Assuming a wired ethernet connection, running dhclient or dhcpcd is
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I tried to install Archlinux on my new computer and got stuck. Only using the {{ic|pacman-key --populate archlinux}} helped me. I think I am not the only one having this problem. But why did you undo it? {{Unsigned|20:38, 12 December 2015‎|Sandstorm}}
  sufficient to get a lease. Otherwise set up the connection manually
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:This command is already run for the new system (by installation of archlinux-keyring), so running it by hand shouldn't be required for most users. Of course, things can go wrong (how old was the ISO you used to install the system?), but that belongs in Troubleshooting sections of the respective articles, which are linked at the beginning of the guide. -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 19:52, 12 December 2015 (UTC)
  using ip add, wpa_supplicant (WLAN with WPA), pppoe-setup (DSL), etc.
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::I had downloaded the ISO just yesterday, minutes before the install. Only that command installed the keys. Probably I should open a bug if you can confirm the issue?
  You can also create and use netcfg profiles. Read more in the manpages:
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:::Did you have to run pacman-key after, or before pacstrap? And do you recall what the error messages said exactly? (See also {{Bug|31286}}) -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 20:15, 12 December 2015 (UTC)
  ip(8), wpa_supplicant(8), pppoe(8), netcfg(8), netcfg-profiles(5)
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::::I had to run after pacstrap. As far as I remember, pacstrap stopped after trying to download the keys. The error message was something like shown in this forum post: https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=165367
A reminder to install the packages for the internet connection in the pacstrap section would also be nice. -- [[User:progandy|progandy]]
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:::::Well then, as you suggested, I'd open a bug report. -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 20:34, 12 December 2015 (UTC)
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::::::Done. Could you check if the description is good. I could not find an appropriate category, so I though Packages:Core might be the closest one. https://bugs.archlinux.org/task/47351 --[[User:Sandstorm|Sandstorm]] ([[User talk:Sandstorm|talk]]) 20:48, 12 December 2015 (UTC)
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:::::::Thanks, the description looks OK. If the category e.a is not right, [[Special:Contributions/Scimmia|User:Scimmia]] should fix it. :P -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 13:59, 13 December 2015 (UTC)
  
== Suggestions to update this guide as part of ISO ==
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::::::::Hmm, looks like it was closed with "Works for me" ... not very enlightening. All I can suggest is to further improve on [[Pacman/Package signing]] and related articles, and recheck if they're accessible enough from the Beginners' guide. -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 21:59, 12 February 2016 (UTC)
Since this guide is now being included as 'install.txt' in the ISO, it might be beneficial to incorporate the following changes:
 
* Entirely remove the '''1. Download''' section and move it to the Download area of the archlinux.org page. This document here is about installing, not downloading, checking, burning discs or dd'ing. The majority of users reading this have likely already booted up the install medium.
 
* Begin or end the document by mentioning the new archlinux(7) man page which explains the location of important system configuration files
 
# man archlinux
 
* Slightly expand the '''6. Connect to the internet''' section to include the most basic examples of setting up a private network using a dynamic and static IP address. (Right now it's only a single paragraph/line.) It's a vital installation step and should actually be moved to the top as one of the first actions during system setup. This fact should be emphasized.
 
  
Obtain dynamic IP
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== Switch to systemd-networkd ==
# dhcpcd
 
  
Set static IP
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Next ISOs may use systemd-networkd instead of dhcpcd, see [https://lists.archlinux.org/pipermail/arch-releng/2016-July/003739.html] -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 10:26, 19 July 2016 (UTC)
# ip link set dev eth0 up
 
# ip addr add 192.168.1.2/24 dev eth0
 
# ip route add default via 192.168.1.1
 
# echo "nameserver 8.8.8.8" >> /etc/resolv.conf
 
  
--[[User:MajorTom|MajorTom]]
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== Wireless Configuration ==
  
:* I can agree to all your suggestions, I wonder why no one is modifying the wiki. Internet connection setup is the most important part and should be covered more extensively. In addition to your changes, mention the manpages and configuration templates for netcfg and pppoe-setup/connect. The boot medium must at least contain easy accesible information in order to read all pages referenced in the installation guide. There should also be mentioned that elinks is installed and can be used to access the wiki.  --[[User:Progandy|Progandy]] ([[User talk:Progandy|talk]]) 21:50, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
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The advice for wireless network setup to refer to the wireless networking page in the Wiki could present a new user with a significant hurdle to overcome. The ARCH ISO contains wifi-menu, which should be sufficient for most purposes to establish a wireless network conneciton. I propose that informaton be added to the networking section at the start of the page stating:
  
:* The {{ic|dhcpcd}} network daemon is started automatically: [https://www.archlinux.org/news/install-media-20120804-available/], [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Beginners%27_Guide#Network_setup], so there's no reason to start it manually. --[[User:DSpider|DSpider]] ([[User talk:DSpider|talk]]) 08:17, 25 August 2012 (UTC)
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For wireless connections, iw(8), wpa_supplicant(8) and netctl are available. See Wireless network configuration. The ARCH ISO makes wifi-menu available. The wifi-menu programme should be sufficiently powerful for most users to establish a connection to a known WiFi network. {{Unsigned|11:49, 18 October 2016‎|Deggy}}
  
== <s> Keymaps </s> ==
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:My eventual plan is to propose a man page for wifi_menu, then we can just link to that one instead of netctl. -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 10:32, 18 October 2016 (UTC)
  
As this guide mentions the loading of keymaps using loadkeys there should be at least a very small example about /etc/vconsole.conf
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::That would be great, I'd try to help; welcome to drop me a note about it. In the meantime I'd be +1 to Deggy's suggestion. Simplest way for new Archers, most of them will be used to a distro automatically enabling a network tool. Likewise, a simple sentence above it ala "see [[dhcpcd#Running]] for a quick start and [[Network configuration]] for free choice." would make it simpler for those wired users. --[[User:Indigo|Indigo]] ([[User talk:Indigo|talk]]) 10:33, 18 March 2017 (UTC)
  
Either not talk about keymaps or tell how to make it correct. When this is used as a checklist, the setup of the keymap should not be missing.
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:::Thanks. Though I disagree on another link to [[dhcpcd]] in [[Installation_guide#Network_configuration]]; attentive users will have noticed that it is the method used in the installation environment, and [[Installation_guide#Configure_the_system]] specifically avoids recommending particular software choices for the new system (due to endless bickering in our user base on what's "best" or "recommended").
: [[KEYMAP]] page link added. Close. -- [[User:Fengchao|Fengchao]] ([[User talk:Fengchao|talk]]) 04:03, 4 September 2012 (UTC)
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:::Regarding wifi-menu, its usage is poorly covered even in the [[netctl]] article ([[Netctl#Wireless_.28WPA-PSK.29]] doesn't even mention how to select an interface) so that, or said man page, should be fixed first in my view. -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 22:38, 18 March 2017 (UTC)
  
:: The section on keymaps and fonts links only to the KEYMAP page. An additional link regarding setting default console font should be added to:
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::::[https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Netctl&type=revision&diff=471232&oldid=471030] Well, in this case "The [[dhcpcd]] daemon is [https://git.archlinux.org/archiso.git/tree/configs/releng/airootfs/etc/udev/rules.d/81-dhcpcd.rules enabled] on boot for '''wired''' devices,.." should be changed to "On the installation image the [[dhcpcd]] daemon is [[enable]]d on boot for '''wired''' devices,...", because the crosslink helps a new user more than the udev rule and it currently suggests a non-existent default. Likewise, [[Installation guide#Network configuration]] should clarify it again with "The newly installed environment has no network connection activated per default. See [[Network configuration]] to configure one." --[[User:Indigo|Indigo]] ([[User talk:Indigo|talk]]) 00:00, 19 March 2017 (UTC)
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Fonts#Console_fonts
 
: Link updated. Thanks for suggestion. -- [[User:Fengchao|Fengchao]] ([[User talk:Fengchao|talk]]) 13:47, 18 May 2013 (UTC)
 
  
== add a step: setting the clock ==
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:::::Sounds reasonable and would also strike off one point in [[#Notes]]. :) I think the link to the udev rule is still useful though, perhaps suitable for the ''wired'' word. -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 02:13, 19 March 2017 (UTC)
  
Lots of things care about the clock being more-or-less correct, e.g. pacman-key will not work at all if the clock is too far out. Lots of brand new computers come with the clock set to something in the distant past, which causes weird problems during the install. [[User:Thetrivialstuff|Thetrivialstuff]] ([[User talk:Thetrivialstuff|talk]]) 23:14, 31 July 2012 (UTC)
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::::::[https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Installation_guide&type=revision&diff=471297&oldid=469435] @Deggy: Your suggestion not fully picked up yet, but for now ''wifi-menu'' is directly mentioned behind the [[Netctl#Wireless_.28WPA-PSK.29|netctl]] link. --[[User:Indigo|Indigo]] ([[User talk:Indigo|talk]]) 18:01, 19 March 2017 (UTC)
  
I agree, the instructions in "Installation Guide" leaves you without a /etc/adjtime file.
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:::::::Different suggestion: remove the links to [[netctl]] & co. alltogether, as this is already described in [[Wireless configuration]]. The table in [[Wireless_network_configuration#Automatic_setup]] could be expanded or generalized to mention {{Pkg|wireless-tools}} is unavailable on archiso.
The following should be added (taken from beginners guide, but shortened):
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:::::::In other words:
Set the hardware clock and generate a {{ic|/etc/adjtime}} file with {{ic|# hwclock --systohc --utc}} or {{ic|# hwclock --systohc --localtime}}
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::::::::If no connection is available, [[stop]] the ''dhcpcd'' service with {{ic|systemctl stop dhcpcd@}}, {{ic|Tab}} and see [[Network configuration]] for '''wired''' devices or [[Wireless network configuration]] for '''wireless''' devices.
[[User:Bwid|Bwid]] ([[User talk:Bwid|talk]]) 08:03, 3 March 2013 (UTC)
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:::::::-- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 12:46, 17 November 2017 (UTC)
:There's no need for an adjtime file, but it does make sense to have people use {{ic|timedatectl}} from the live media to set the clock correctly. -- [[User:Thestinger|thestinger]] ([[User talk:Thestinger|talk]]) 03:30, 15 March 2013 (UTC)
 
  
== pacman-key --init / populate? ==
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== Suggest using genfstab -t PARTUUID for GPT partition tables. ==
  
Isn't this a required step? pacstrap does not seem to do it on its own. [[User:Thetrivialstuff|Thetrivialstuff]] ([[User talk:Thetrivialstuff|talk]]) 23:15, 31 July 2012 (UTC)
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The guide currently suggests using -U or -L for UUIDs or labels respectively. I think there should be some mention of using PARTUUIDs for GPT partition tables.
:Edit: Ah; I think this was related to the "set the clock" step -- I see that there is a pacman keyring init in the boot sequence of the latest media, but it (silently?) fails if the local clock is wrong.
 
::https://mailman.archlinux.org/pipermail/arch-releng/2012-July/002708.html --[[User:Bluewind|Bluewind]] ([[User talk:Bluewind|talk]]) 09:10, 1 August 2012 (UTC)
 
  
== Link to UEFI Bootloaders page ==
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[[User:BrandonSchumann|BrandonSchumann]] ([[User talk:BrandonSchumann|talk]]) 20:28, 30 October 2017 (UTC)
  
Instead of telling the user to install GRUB(2) alone in case of UEFI, direct the reader to the [[UEFI_Bootloaders]] page which provides info about all the UEFI bootloaders capable of booting linux kernel. Also how can I edit the guide, there is no "edit" tab shown on top of the page. Is this page restricted to few authors only? -- [[User:The.ridikulus.rat|Keshav P R]] ([[User talk:The.ridikulus.rat|talk]]) 15:31, 19 August 2012 (UTC)
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:PARTUUID's aren't always generated. At least in my case with using btrfs subvolumes it doesn't output them when using "-t PARTUUID". -- [[User:Rdeckard|Rdeckard]] ([[User_talk:Rdeckard|talk]]) 11:30, 16 November 2017 (UTC)
  
==Styling==
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== Include hint at top of page for install.txt ==
  
* The "'''Install a bootloader'''" section should be a bullet point above "Configure the bootloader: refer back to the appropriate ...", no need to have them separate. Using pacstrap to install the bootloader just seems silly (especially since they were also merged in the Beginner's Guide). Also, commands after {{ic|arch-chroot}} would look better if they were indented with "<nowiki>: {{bc|# <command>}}</nowiki>", kinda like how {{ic|# pacman-key -v <iso-file>.sig}} is at the beginning of the article. Would look much cleaner. --[[User:DSpider|DSpider]] ([[User talk:DSpider|talk]]) 16:33, 20 August 2012 (UTC)
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Inform users that a copy of the installation guide can be found in ~/install.txt on the live CD.
  
:I agree that Install a Bootloader should be above Configure the Bootloader. As for the thing with pacstrap installing the bootloader, that must have already been changed, since I didn't find that anywhere. --[[User:Ewtoombs|Ewtoombs]] ([[User talk:Ewtoombs|talk]]) 17:27, 16 March 2013 (UTC)
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This would be incredibly helpful for users who potentially don't have access to two computers at the same time. {{unsigned|23:33, 13 November 2017‎|Cheeseypi}}
  
==Proposed changes to Beginners' Guide and link to Post-Installation==
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:install.txt is not a real copy in the sense that all wiki links are missing, and those without two computers can simply switch ttys to elinks as is described in [[Installation_guide#Pre-installation]] (throughout the guide, a working internet connection is assumed). -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 07:57, 14 November 2017 (UTC)
Some major changes are under discussion in [[Talk:Beginners'_Guide#Guide_restructuring]]: some of them would require adjustments to this very guide, see for example [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Talk%3ABeginners%27_Guide&diff=224578&oldid=224567 this post].
 
  
Please reply in the linked discussion, '''not''' here.
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== Bootloader section should warn users they must install one ==
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The bootloader section should warn users they won't be able to boot into their installed system unless they install a bootloader. Currently it is very easy to miss the importance of a bootloader. [[User:Xinxiang|Xinxiang]] ([[User talk:Xinxiang|talk]]) 23:02, 15 November 2017 (UTC)
  
-- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 12:15, 22 September 2012 (UTC)
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:The guide says "See [[:Category:Boot loaders]]...". The first sentence on that page is "In order to boot Arch Linux, a Linux-capable boot loader must be installed...".  -- [[User:Rdeckard|Rdeckard]] ([[User_talk:Rdeckard|talk]]) 11:27, 16 November 2017 (UTC)
  
:I've added the steps in [[Beginners' Guide/Post-Installation]] to this guide, which now directly sends users to [[Beginners' Guide/Extra]].
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::I guess you could add a shortened version of that introduction, but I'm not sure how it would help users who skip sections of the guide at random... -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 00:39, 17 November 2017 (UTC)
:If however [[Talk:Beginners' Guide#Guide restructuring]] will be implemented as planned, the [[Beginners' Guide]] will have a slightly different installation procedure than this guide, unless this one is updated too.
 
:-- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 14:08, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
 
  
::Shouldn't the information be added ''before'' "Unmount leftovers and reboot" ? By the way, the title should mention rebooting, because most likely a kernel update was involved. --[[User:DSpider|DSpider]] ([[User talk:DSpider|talk]]) 14:41, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
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:: If someone has clicked that link, they're already going to install the bootloader. The warning should be for those who may skip past it. [[User:Xinxiang|Xinxiang]] ([[User talk:Xinxiang|talk]]) 01:36, 18 November 2017 (UTC)
  
:::The link to Post-Installation was the last step of the guide, so that's the line I've replaced with the instructions from Post-Installation.
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::: I'm not fundamentally opposed to adding further description to the boot loader section, but I can hardly agree with that argument. No section in the installation guide is optional, apart from [[Installation guide#Initramfs]] which clearly mentions so. Why should we account for people who think otherwise? -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 09:49, 19 November 2017 (UTC)
:::About rebooting in case of a kernel upgrade, I don't think it's necessary to state that since this guide is aimed at experienced users.
 
:::In any case, any reordering or modification of the various steps should better be approved by a Developer, and probably the forum or the mailing lists are better places than this talk page to involve them in such discussions.
 
:::-- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 14:59, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
 
  
::::Yeah, but at this point, you were instructed to reboot. In order to edit {{ic|pacman.conf}}, you need to mount the root partition. And to update your system, you need to chroot into it. It would be better if "Unmount leftovers" was renamed "Unmount leftovers and reboot", and added at the end (before the suggestion to read the instructions from '''Extra'''). --[[User:DSpider|DSpider]] ([[User talk:DSpider|talk]]) 15:07, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
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:::: Looking at the other sections there are statements such as "The newly installed environment has no network connection activated by default." under Network Configuration or there are clear imperatives "Generate an fstab file...". I think adding a statement such as "Install and configure a boot loader." before "See Category:Boot Loaders..." might clarify things. -- [[User:Rdeckard|Rdeckard]] ([[User_talk:Rdeckard|talk]]) 11:31, 21 November 2017 (UTC)
  
:::::You are still instructed to reboot, aren't you? The "Unmount leftovers" section currently tells you to ''"reboot and then login into the new system with the root account"''. In the "new system", the correct partition is already mounted at /.
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::::: I just copy-pasted the statement from [[:Category:Boot loaders]]: [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Installation_guide&diff=500284&oldid=500282] Feel free to suggest improved wording. -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 18:02, 1 December 2017 (UTC)
:::::Whether or not configuring pacman, updating the system and adding a user would be better done in the chroot before rebooting, it's something that should be discussed with a Developer. I too think that it would make more sense, requiring one less reboot in case of a kernel upgrade.
 
:::::-- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 15:18, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
 
:::::Renaming "Unmount leftovers" to "Unmount leftovers and reboot" is safe anyway, so I've done that. -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 15:37, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
 
:::::@DSpider: you're quite active on the forum, why don't you propose your idea there? I think it would be interesting to discuss it. -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 14:11, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
 
:::::Ok, after reading [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Talk%3AInstallation_Guide&diff=226203&oldid=225070 this] I realize that maybe I haven't been clear enough, so I'll try to explain everything more thoroughly.
 
:::::#The current procedure makes you [[Installation_Guide#Configure_the_system|configure the system]] in the '''chroot''' environment from the '''live''' system.
 
:::::#Then, still in the '''live''' system, it [[Installation_Guide#Unmount and reboot|asks]] you to '''exit''' the chroot, unmount the partitions for the '''new''' system, '''reboot''' and login into the '''new''' system. Now, I refuse to write more explicitly in the guide that you should boot into the '''new''' system, and not again in the '''live''' system, in order to login into the new system.
 
:::::#Since you are now into the '''new''' system ('''not''' the live system), the root partition is mounted at {{ic|/}}, not at {{ic|/mnt/}}, so you should be able to configure pacman, update the system and add a user wihtout chrooting. Now, if you've tested the procedure and really noticed that for some obscure-to-me reason you still need to chroot to /mnt in order to do those operations, please ask for clarifications in the forum because I wouldn't be able to answer any more.
 
:::::Last thing, and I think this is the 3rd or 4th time I write it, I '''agree''' with you that configuring pacman etc. could easily be done in the chroot environment at step 1, but you should '''propose''' that change '''in the forum''' first, since it would be a change in the official installation procedure and I won't take responsibility for that.
 
:::::I think this is the best I can do here, the next step to explain all this could be making a movie or a five-act play, but I hope it's not necessary :)
 
:::::-- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 05:56, 30 September 2012 (UTC)
 
  
== "Configure the network" is missing ==
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== Document changes for filesystem package / Update sections where necessary ==
  
Basically, you establish an internet connection, but you also need to configure the network, so that you can connect after rebooting. The Beginners' Guide [[Beginners'_Guide#Configure_the_network|mentions]] it: ''You need to configure the network again, but this time for your newly installed environment. The procedure and prerequisites are very similar to the one described above, except we are going to make it persistent and automatically run at boot.'' And this information seems to be missing from the installation guide. --[[User:DSpider|DSpider]] ([[User talk:DSpider|talk]]) 13:51, 3 October 2012 (UTC)
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The filesystem package underwent some changes and the installation guide is not up to date anymore. Especially the part about the hosts file is not correct anymore. Additionally, group ids are not static anymore.
  
:I don't think that any Developer is watching this talk page, you'd better report this in the forum or mailing list. -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 10:43, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
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For details please have a look here:
  
::I'm not sure if this should be a part of the installation guide. -- [[User:Karol|Karol]] ([[User talk:Karol|talk]]) 15:20, 29 October 2012 (UTC)
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https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?pid=1754949#p1754949
  
:::Of course it should. Because after rebooting (which you are instructed to), you're left with a borked machine. You need to boot the installation media again, establish an internet connection, mount the partitions and chroot into your system, and only THEN install the required packages. There should at least be a line that mentions [[netcfg]]. Because I read that it can handle both wired and wireless connections, and it's included in {{Grp|base}} now. --[[User:DSpider|DSpider]] ([[User talk:DSpider|talk]]) 07:04, 30 October 2012 (UTC)
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{{unsigned|07:20, 14 December 2017‎|Jrk}}
::::I'm sorry if I'm missing something, but there is [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Installation_Guide#Connect_to_the_internet a line about netcfg already] and was there a month ago when this discussion was started. If you want to add a note that after rebooting the user has to enable dhcpcd service etc. (so he should have all the needed packages installed beforehand) that's fine with me. -- [[User:Karol|Karol]] ([[User talk:Karol|talk]]) 10:09, 30 October 2012 (UTC)
 
  
== Install a bootloader ==
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== <s>Are 'hosts' file additions really needed?</s> ==
  
Make it more visible that it is a choise between Grub/Syslinux.
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Currently, ''/etc/hosts'' file is '''empty'''. Why
 
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  127.0.0.1 localhost.localdomain localhost
== <s> 2 amendments to do </s> ==
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  ::1 localhost.localdomain localhost
 
+
   127.0.1.1 myhostname.localdomain myhostname
In '''Configure the system''':
+
additions are suggested? {{Unsigned|16:34, 17 December 2017‎|NTia89}}
 
 
There is only one link on
 
    ''Add console keymap and font preferences in /etc/vconsole.conf''
 
This link should apply only to "console keymap".<br>
 
"font preferences" should link to [[Fonts#Console_fonts]]
 
: Link updated. Thanks. -- [[User:Fengchao|Fengchao]] ([[User talk:Fengchao|talk]]) 13:46, 18 May 2013 (UTC)
 
 
 
There is also:
 
    ''Uncomment the selected locale in /etc/locale.gen and generate it with locale-gen.''
 
This should be removed as it has been already done during this step:
 
    ''Set locale preferences in /etc/locale.conf.''
 
 
 
Thanks and regards,
 
[[User:Boism|Boism]] ([[User talk:Boism|talk]]) 21:10, 11 October 2012 (UTC)
 
: They are not the same. First generate locale than set default locale. See [[Locale]] for more info. -- [[User:Fengchao|Fengchao]] ([[User talk:Fengchao|talk]]) 13:46, 18 May 2013 (UTC)
 
 
 
== Mount the partitions ==
 
 
 
Please also mention that if using a swap partition the user should execute swapon at the "Mount to partitions" step. It is important to do this so that the swap partition is included when generating the fstab later on in the guide.--[[User:Takaitra|Takaitra]] ([[User talk:Takaitra|talk]]) 17:13, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
 
 
 
== add netctl to the mentioned ways of configuring network ==
 
 
 
Since netctl is on it's way to replace netcfg we should at least mention its existance in the appropriate section.
 
:Not until it's out of [testing]. -- [[User:Thestinger|thestinger]] ([[User talk:Thestinger|talk]]) 03:28, 15 March 2013 (UTC)
 
::It's out of testing and in core/base. [[User:Scimmia|Scimmia]] ([[User talk:Scimmia|talk]]) 23:08, 28 April 2013 (UTC)
 
 
 
== Add link to usb installation media ==
 
 
 
Can you add a link to  [[USB Installation Media|written to a USB]]   on:
 
 
 
''The image can be burned to a CD, mounted as an ISO file, or directly written to a USB stick using a utility like dd. It is intended for new installations only; an existing Arch Linux system can always be updated with pacman -Syu.''
 
 
 
please?
 
 
 
== <s> rewrite "stacked block devices" sentence </s> ==
 
 
 
The sentence
 
:Remember to create any stacked block devices like [[LVM]], [[dm-crypt with LUKS|LUKS]], or [[RAID]].
 
makes it sound like it's necessary to create such block devices. I think this could be formulated better as:
 
:If you want to create any stacked block devices like [[LVM]], [[dm-crypt with LUKS|LUKS]], or [[RAID]], do it now.
 
 
 
(No comment on the philosophy of a wiki that doesn't allow editing.) <nowiki>~~</nowiki> [[User:RavuAlHemio|RavuAlHemio]] ([[User talk:Ravu al Hemio|talk]]) 14:32, 22 April 2013 (UTC)
 
:I think the whole Installation section has to be thrown out and replaced with a heavily edited version from the Beginners' Guide - it's quite bad right now. By the way it's just this page and a few others that are protected. This is regarded as the official documentation for the installation procedure. It should really be regularly updated from the community-maintained Beginners' Guide but I haven't had the time for it lately. [[User:Thestinger|thestinger]] ([[User talk:Thestinger|talk]]) 03:06, 24 April 2013 (UTC)
 
:: Updated for now. Thanks for the suggestion. Close. -- [[User:Fengchao|Fengchao]] ([[User talk:Fengchao|talk]]) 13:23, 18 May 2013 (UTC)
 
 
 
== <s> pacstrap links obsolete repo </s> ==
 
 
 
The pacstrap word links to the obsolete github repo https://github.com/falconindy/arch-install-scripts
 
 
 
The current repos seems to be this one: https://projects.archlinux.org/arch-install-scripts.git/ and the link to pacstrap is https://projects.archlinux.org/arch-install-scripts.git/tree/pacstrap.in
 
 
 
[[User:Kolewu|Kolewu]] ([[User talk:Kolewu|talk]]) 23:12, 16 May 2013 (UTC)
 
: Link updated. Thanks for reporting. -- [[User:Fengchao|Fengchao]] ([[User talk:Fengchao|talk]]) 13:15, 18 May 2013 (UTC)
 

Latest revision as of 16:03, 17 December 2017

Read this first before adding new suggestions

  • systemd tools such as hostnamectl, timedatectl and localectl do not work in the installation chroot environment, so please do not propose to use them in the guide unless you can prove that they have been made to work also in that case. See [1], [2], [3] and [4] for some past discussions about this issue.
  • localectl list-keymaps does not work due to bug FS#46725. For the chosen replacement command, see [5].

-- The ArchWiki Administrators 22:17, 2 September 2016 (UTC)

pacman-key --populate

[Moved from Talk:Beginners' guide. -- Alad (talk) 20:38, 12 July 2016 (UTC)]

Reference: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Beginners%27_guide&diff=next&oldid=411670 I tried to install Archlinux on my new computer and got stuck. Only using the pacman-key --populate archlinux helped me. I think I am not the only one having this problem. But why did you undo it? —This unsigned comment is by Sandstorm (talk) 20:38, 12 December 2015‎. Please sign your posts with ~~~~!

This command is already run for the new system (by installation of archlinux-keyring), so running it by hand shouldn't be required for most users. Of course, things can go wrong (how old was the ISO you used to install the system?), but that belongs in Troubleshooting sections of the respective articles, which are linked at the beginning of the guide. -- Alad (talk) 19:52, 12 December 2015 (UTC)
I had downloaded the ISO just yesterday, minutes before the install. Only that command installed the keys. Probably I should open a bug if you can confirm the issue?
Did you have to run pacman-key after, or before pacstrap? And do you recall what the error messages said exactly? (See also FS#31286) -- Alad (talk) 20:15, 12 December 2015 (UTC)
I had to run after pacstrap. As far as I remember, pacstrap stopped after trying to download the keys. The error message was something like shown in this forum post: https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=165367
Well then, as you suggested, I'd open a bug report. -- Alad (talk) 20:34, 12 December 2015 (UTC)
Done. Could you check if the description is good. I could not find an appropriate category, so I though Packages:Core might be the closest one. https://bugs.archlinux.org/task/47351 --Sandstorm (talk) 20:48, 12 December 2015 (UTC)
Thanks, the description looks OK. If the category e.a is not right, User:Scimmia should fix it. :P -- Alad (talk) 13:59, 13 December 2015 (UTC)
Hmm, looks like it was closed with "Works for me" ... not very enlightening. All I can suggest is to further improve on Pacman/Package signing and related articles, and recheck if they're accessible enough from the Beginners' guide. -- Alad (talk) 21:59, 12 February 2016 (UTC)

Switch to systemd-networkd

Next ISOs may use systemd-networkd instead of dhcpcd, see [6] -- Alad (talk) 10:26, 19 July 2016 (UTC)

Wireless Configuration

The advice for wireless network setup to refer to the wireless networking page in the Wiki could present a new user with a significant hurdle to overcome. The ARCH ISO contains wifi-menu, which should be sufficient for most purposes to establish a wireless network conneciton. I propose that informaton be added to the networking section at the start of the page stating:

For wireless connections, iw(8), wpa_supplicant(8) and netctl are available. See Wireless network configuration. The ARCH ISO makes wifi-menu available. The wifi-menu programme should be sufficiently powerful for most users to establish a connection to a known WiFi network. —This unsigned comment is by Deggy (talk) 11:49, 18 October 2016‎. Please sign your posts with ~~~~!

My eventual plan is to propose a man page for wifi_menu, then we can just link to that one instead of netctl. -- Alad (talk) 10:32, 18 October 2016 (UTC)
That would be great, I'd try to help; welcome to drop me a note about it. In the meantime I'd be +1 to Deggy's suggestion. Simplest way for new Archers, most of them will be used to a distro automatically enabling a network tool. Likewise, a simple sentence above it ala "see dhcpcd#Running for a quick start and Network configuration for free choice." would make it simpler for those wired users. --Indigo (talk) 10:33, 18 March 2017 (UTC)
Thanks. Though I disagree on another link to dhcpcd in Installation_guide#Network_configuration; attentive users will have noticed that it is the method used in the installation environment, and Installation_guide#Configure_the_system specifically avoids recommending particular software choices for the new system (due to endless bickering in our user base on what's "best" or "recommended").
Regarding wifi-menu, its usage is poorly covered even in the netctl article (Netctl#Wireless_.28WPA-PSK.29 doesn't even mention how to select an interface) so that, or said man page, should be fixed first in my view. -- Alad (talk) 22:38, 18 March 2017 (UTC)
[7] Well, in this case "The dhcpcd daemon is enabled on boot for wired devices,.." should be changed to "On the installation image the dhcpcd daemon is enabled on boot for wired devices,...", because the crosslink helps a new user more than the udev rule and it currently suggests a non-existent default. Likewise, Installation guide#Network configuration should clarify it again with "The newly installed environment has no network connection activated per default. See Network configuration to configure one." --Indigo (talk) 00:00, 19 March 2017 (UTC)
Sounds reasonable and would also strike off one point in #Notes. :) I think the link to the udev rule is still useful though, perhaps suitable for the wired word. -- Alad (talk) 02:13, 19 March 2017 (UTC)
[8] @Deggy: Your suggestion not fully picked up yet, but for now wifi-menu is directly mentioned behind the netctl link. --Indigo (talk) 18:01, 19 March 2017 (UTC)
Different suggestion: remove the links to netctl & co. alltogether, as this is already described in Wireless configuration. The table in Wireless_network_configuration#Automatic_setup could be expanded or generalized to mention wireless-tools is unavailable on archiso.
In other words:
If no connection is available, stop the dhcpcd service with systemctl stop dhcpcd@, Tab and see Network configuration for wired devices or Wireless network configuration for wireless devices.
-- Alad (talk) 12:46, 17 November 2017 (UTC)

Suggest using genfstab -t PARTUUID for GPT partition tables.

The guide currently suggests using -U or -L for UUIDs or labels respectively. I think there should be some mention of using PARTUUIDs for GPT partition tables.

BrandonSchumann (talk) 20:28, 30 October 2017 (UTC)

PARTUUID's aren't always generated. At least in my case with using btrfs subvolumes it doesn't output them when using "-t PARTUUID". -- Rdeckard (talk) 11:30, 16 November 2017 (UTC)

Include hint at top of page for install.txt

Inform users that a copy of the installation guide can be found in ~/install.txt on the live CD.

This would be incredibly helpful for users who potentially don't have access to two computers at the same time. —This unsigned comment is by Cheeseypi (talk) 23:33, 13 November 2017‎. Please sign your posts with ~~~~!

install.txt is not a real copy in the sense that all wiki links are missing, and those without two computers can simply switch ttys to elinks as is described in Installation_guide#Pre-installation (throughout the guide, a working internet connection is assumed). -- Alad (talk) 07:57, 14 November 2017 (UTC)

Bootloader section should warn users they must install one

The bootloader section should warn users they won't be able to boot into their installed system unless they install a bootloader. Currently it is very easy to miss the importance of a bootloader. Xinxiang (talk) 23:02, 15 November 2017 (UTC)

The guide says "See Category:Boot loaders...". The first sentence on that page is "In order to boot Arch Linux, a Linux-capable boot loader must be installed...". -- Rdeckard (talk) 11:27, 16 November 2017 (UTC)
I guess you could add a shortened version of that introduction, but I'm not sure how it would help users who skip sections of the guide at random... -- Alad (talk) 00:39, 17 November 2017 (UTC)
If someone has clicked that link, they're already going to install the bootloader. The warning should be for those who may skip past it. Xinxiang (talk) 01:36, 18 November 2017 (UTC)
I'm not fundamentally opposed to adding further description to the boot loader section, but I can hardly agree with that argument. No section in the installation guide is optional, apart from Installation guide#Initramfs which clearly mentions so. Why should we account for people who think otherwise? -- Alad (talk) 09:49, 19 November 2017 (UTC)
Looking at the other sections there are statements such as "The newly installed environment has no network connection activated by default." under Network Configuration or there are clear imperatives "Generate an fstab file...". I think adding a statement such as "Install and configure a boot loader." before "See Category:Boot Loaders..." might clarify things. -- Rdeckard (talk) 11:31, 21 November 2017 (UTC)
I just copy-pasted the statement from Category:Boot loaders: [9] Feel free to suggest improved wording. -- Alad (talk) 18:02, 1 December 2017 (UTC)

Document changes for filesystem package / Update sections where necessary

The filesystem package underwent some changes and the installation guide is not up to date anymore. Especially the part about the hosts file is not correct anymore. Additionally, group ids are not static anymore.

For details please have a look here:

https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?pid=1754949#p1754949

—This unsigned comment is by Jrk (talk) 07:20, 14 December 2017‎. Please sign your posts with ~~~~!

Are 'hosts' file additions really needed?

Currently, /etc/hosts file is empty. Why

 127.0.0.1	localhost.localdomain	localhost
 ::1		localhost.localdomain	localhost
 127.0.1.1	myhostname.localdomain	myhostname

additions are suggested? —This unsigned comment is by NTia89 (talk) 16:34, 17 December 2017‎. Please sign your posts with ~~~~!