Difference between revisions of "Talk:Installation guide"

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(Change link do syslinux install)
(EFI System Partition link must be changed: fixed)
 
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== Read this first before add new suggestion ==
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== Read this first before adding new suggestions ==
* Point of this page is to ''not'' become another Beginner's guide. It's meant to be a ''concise'' checklist of things to be done. So detailed install instruction should go to [[Beginners' Guide]].
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* If there is something to discuss which should also affect the Beginner's guide, then do it on [[Talk:Beginners%27_Guide/Installation]]. An advanced user will find this page less bloated and easier to read, so let's KISS.
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==Change link do syslinux install==
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* The point of this page is to ''not'' become another Beginners' guide. It is meant to be a ''concise'' checklist of things to be done. So, detailed installation instructions should go to [[Beginners' guide]].
 +
* If there is something to discuss which should also affect the Beginners' guide, then do it on [[Talk:Beginners' guide]]. An advanced user will find this page less bloated and easier to read, so let's KISS.
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* systemd tools such as ''hostnamectl'', ''timedatectl'' and ''localectl'' [https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/798#issuecomment-126568596 do not work] in the installation chroot environment, so please do not propose to use them in the guide unless you can prove that they have been made to work also in that case. See [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Talk:Beginners%27_guide&oldid=388727#General_problems], [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Talk:Beginners%27_guide&oldid=404695#Replace_commands_with_their_systemd_equivalents], [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Talk:Beginners%27_guide&oldid=418662#Utilizing_systemd_tools] and [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Talk:Installation_guide&oldid=434985#change_configuration_system_from_old_way_to_new_way.28using_systemd_commands.29] for some past discussions about this issue.
  
The line
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__TOC__
See Syslinux configuration
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sould point to installation:
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See [[Syslinux#Installation|Syslinux installation]]
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Because in the configuration section, there is nothing about : "mark the partition active with the boot flag and install the MBR boot code".
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== Change section "Connect to the internet" ==
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== Let's mention filesystem tools in pacstrap step ==
  
Since the installation guide is now part of the iso image, I'd like to see a few references to the manpages of the necessary tools here, since you cannot open the network related wiki pages. Maybe something like this would be acceptable:
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I propose changing the sentence to ''Other packages or groups can be installed by appending their names to the above command (space separated), possibly including the boot loader '''or filesystem tools'''.'' As the purpose of the site is that it is a checklist, it should mention the most common pacstrap packages such as filesystem tools (for example btrfs-progs are needed separately).
  Assuming a wired ethernet connection, running dhclient or dhcpcd is  
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  sufficient to get a lease. Otherwise set up the connection manually
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  using ip add, wpa_supplicant (WLAN with WPA), pppoe-setup (DSL), etc.
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  You can also create and use netcfg profiles. Read more in the manpages:
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  ip(8), wpa_supplicant(8), pppoe(8), netcfg(8), netcfg-profiles(5)
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A reminder to install the packages for the internet connection in the pacstrap section would also be nice. -- [[User:progandy|progandy]]
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== Suggestions to update this guide as part of ISO ==
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{{unsigned|18:43, 8 April 2016‎|Drws}}
Since this guide is now being included as 'install.txt' in the ISO, it might be beneficial to incorporate the following changes:
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* Entirely remove the '''1. Download''' section and move it to the Download area of the archlinux.org page. This document here is about installing, not downloading, checking, burning discs or dd'ing. The majority of users reading this have likely already booted up the install medium.
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* Begin or end the document by mentioning the new archlinux(7) man page which explains the location of important system configuration files
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# man archlinux
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* Slightly expand the '''6. Connect to the internet''' section to include the most basic examples of setting up a private network using a dynamic and static IP address. (Right now it's only a single paragraph/line.) It's a vital installation step and should actually be moved to the top as one of the first actions during system setup. This fact should be emphasized.
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Obtain dynamic IP
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:The {{grp|base}} group already includes {{pkg|e2fsprogs}}, {{pkg|jfsutils}}, {{pkg|reiserfsprogs}}, {{pkg|sysfsutils}} and {{pkg|xfsprogs}}, but no boot loader (except [[systemd-boot]]). Adding a hint for filesystem tools is of much less value than boot loaders, because the system will boot even without the file system tools, which would otherwise have to be loaded from the file system they should make accessible. -- [[User:Lahwaacz|Lahwaacz]] ([[User talk:Lahwaacz|talk]]) 20:58, 8 April 2016 (UTC)
# dhcpcd
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Set static IP
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::I agree. If you install to (e.g.) btrfs, generating the initramfs later on is bound to fail without required tools installed. Yet, "'''possibly''' ''the boot loader''" is a little fuzzy itself: If you (a) want to install a boot loader before the chroot (e.g. its install target {{ic|/mnt/boot}}), you would need to install it to the booted ramdisk first. If you (b) install it regularly, inside the chroot, the boot loader instructions will tell what you need and the general hint should be better moved to [[Installation guide#Install a boot loader]] itself.  
# ip link set dev eth0 up
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::I suggest we change the sentence like so:
# ip addr add 192.168.1.2/24 dev eth0
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:::"Other packages or groups (e.g. any your system may require on top for the first boot) can be installed directly, by appending the names to the above command (space separated), or individually during the next step."
# ip route add default via 192.168.1.1
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::And make the boot loader hint more explicit, by changing [[Installation guide#Install a boot loader]] to:
# echo "nameserver 8.8.8.8" >> /etc/resolv.conf
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:::"[[Install]] a boot loader package and the boot loader to the respective bootable partition. See [[Boot loaders]] for the available choices and configuration."  
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::Both changes keeping in mind, the main target group for this guide should be being a checklist for advanced users ''without'' previous exposure to the distro/tools. --[[User:Indigo|Indigo]] ([[User talk:Indigo|talk]]) 11:09, 4 June 2016 (UTC)
  
--[[User:MajorTom|MajorTom]]
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== <s>EFI System Partition link must be changed</s> ==
  
:* I can agree to all your suggestions, I wonder why no one is modifying the wiki. Internet connection setup is the most important part and should be covered more extensively. In addition to your changes, mention the manpages and configuration templates for netcfg and pppoe-setup/connect. The boot medium must at least contain easy accesible information in order to read all pages referenced in the installation guide. There should also be mentioned that elinks is installed and can be used to access the wiki. --[[User:Progandy|Progandy]] ([[User talk:Progandy|talk]]) 21:50, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
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The "EFI System Partition" link is currently broken. It should be updated to link to https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/EFI_System_Partition.
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I don't appear to have the permissions to change it, so please someone with the right permissions...
  
:* The {{ic|dhcpcd}} network daemon is started automatically: [https://www.archlinux.org/news/install-media-20120804-available/], [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Beginners%27_Guide#Network_setup], so there's no reason to start it manually. --[[User:DSpider|DSpider]] ([[User talk:DSpider|talk]]) 08:17, 25 August 2012 (UTC)
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:Fixed, thanks. -- [[User:Lahwaacz|Lahwaacz]] ([[User talk:Lahwaacz|talk]]) 16:05, 24 June 2016 (UTC)
 
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== add a step: setting the clock ==
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Lots of things care about the clock being more-or-less correct, e.g. pacman-key will not work at all if the clock is too far out. Lots of brand new computers come with the clock set to something in the distant past, which causes weird problems during the install. [[User:Thetrivialstuff|Thetrivialstuff]] ([[User talk:Thetrivialstuff|talk]]) 23:14, 31 July 2012 (UTC)
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I agree, the instructions in "Installation Guide" leaves you without a /etc/adjtime file.
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The following should be added (taken from beginners guide, but shortened):
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Set the hardware clock and generate a {{ic|/etc/adjtime}} file with {{ic|# hwclock --systohc --utc}} or {{ic|# hwclock --systohc --localtime}}
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[[User:Bwid|Bwid]] ([[User talk:Bwid|talk]]) 08:03, 3 March 2013 (UTC)
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:There's no need for an adjtime file, but it does make sense to have people use {{ic|timedatectl}} from the live media to set the clock correctly. -- [[User:Thestinger|thestinger]] ([[User talk:Thestinger|talk]]) 03:30, 15 March 2013 (UTC)
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== pacman-key --init / populate? ==
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Isn't this a required step? pacstrap does not seem to do it on its own. [[User:Thetrivialstuff|Thetrivialstuff]] ([[User talk:Thetrivialstuff|talk]]) 23:15, 31 July 2012 (UTC)
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:Edit: Ah; I think this was related to the "set the clock" step -- I see that there is a pacman keyring init in the boot sequence of the latest media, but it (silently?) fails if the local clock is wrong.
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::https://mailman.archlinux.org/pipermail/arch-releng/2012-July/002708.html --[[User:Bluewind|Bluewind]] ([[User talk:Bluewind|talk]]) 09:10, 1 August 2012 (UTC)
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== Link to UEFI Bootloaders page ==
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Instead of telling the user to install GRUB(2) alone in case of UEFI, direct the reader to the [[UEFI_Bootloaders]] page which provides info about all the UEFI bootloaders capable of booting linux kernel. Also how can I edit the guide, there is no "edit" tab shown on top of the page. Is this page restricted to few authors only? -- [[User:The.ridikulus.rat|Keshav P R]] ([[User talk:The.ridikulus.rat|talk]]) 15:31, 19 August 2012 (UTC)
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==Proposed changes to Beginners' Guide and link to Post-Installation==
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Some major changes are under discussion in [[Talk:Beginners'_Guide#Guide_restructuring]]: some of them would require adjustments to this very guide, see for example [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Talk%3ABeginners%27_Guide&diff=224578&oldid=224567 this post].
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Please reply in the linked discussion, '''not''' here.
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-- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 12:15, 22 September 2012 (UTC)
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:I've added the steps in [[Beginners' Guide/Post-Installation]] to this guide, which now directly sends users to [[Beginners' Guide/Extra]].
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:If however [[Talk:Beginners' Guide#Guide restructuring]] will be implemented as planned, the [[Beginners' Guide]] will have a slightly different installation procedure than this guide, unless this one is updated too.
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:-- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 14:08, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
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::Shouldn't the information be added ''before'' "Unmount leftovers and reboot" ? By the way, the title should mention rebooting, because most likely a kernel update was involved. --[[User:DSpider|DSpider]] ([[User talk:DSpider|talk]]) 14:41, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
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:::The link to Post-Installation was the last step of the guide, so that's the line I've replaced with the instructions from Post-Installation.
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:::About rebooting in case of a kernel upgrade, I don't think it's necessary to state that since this guide is aimed at experienced users.
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:::In any case, any reordering or modification of the various steps should better be approved by a Developer, and probably the forum or the mailing lists are better places than this talk page to involve them in such discussions.
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:::-- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 14:59, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
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::::Yeah, but at this point, you were instructed to reboot. In order to edit {{ic|pacman.conf}}, you need to mount the root partition. And to update your system, you need to chroot into it. It would be better if "Unmount leftovers" was renamed "Unmount leftovers and reboot", and added at the end (before the suggestion to read the instructions from '''Extra'''). --[[User:DSpider|DSpider]] ([[User talk:DSpider|talk]]) 15:07, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
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:::::You are still instructed to reboot, aren't you? The "Unmount leftovers" section currently tells you to ''"reboot and then login into the new system with the root account"''. In the "new system", the correct partition is already mounted at /.
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:::::Whether or not configuring pacman, updating the system and adding a user would be better done in the chroot before rebooting, it's something that should be discussed with a Developer. I too think that it would make more sense, requiring one less reboot in case of a kernel upgrade.
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:::::-- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 15:18, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
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:::::Renaming "Unmount leftovers" to "Unmount leftovers and reboot" is safe anyway, so I've done that. -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 15:37, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
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:::::@DSpider: you're quite active on the forum, why don't you propose your idea there? I think it would be interesting to discuss it. -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 14:11, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
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:::::Ok, after reading [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Talk%3AInstallation_Guide&diff=226203&oldid=225070 this] I realize that maybe I haven't been clear enough, so I'll try to explain everything more thoroughly.
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:::::#The current procedure makes you [[Installation_Guide#Configure_the_system|configure the system]] in the '''chroot''' environment from the '''live''' system.
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:::::#Then, still in the '''live''' system, it [[Installation_Guide#Unmount and reboot|asks]] you to '''exit''' the chroot, unmount the partitions for the '''new''' system, '''reboot''' and login into the '''new''' system. Now, I refuse to write more explicitly in the guide that you should boot into the '''new''' system, and not again in the '''live''' system, in order to login into the new system.
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:::::#Since you are now into the '''new''' system ('''not''' the live system), the root partition is mounted at {{ic|/}}, not at {{ic|/mnt/}}, so you should be able to configure pacman, update the system and add a user wihtout chrooting. Now, if you've tested the procedure and really noticed that for some obscure-to-me reason you still need to chroot to /mnt in order to do those operations, please ask for clarifications in the forum because I wouldn't be able to answer any more.
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:::::Last thing, and I think this is the 3rd or 4th time I write it, I '''agree''' with you that configuring pacman etc. could easily be done in the chroot environment at step 1, but you should '''propose''' that change '''in the forum''' first, since it would be a change in the official installation procedure and I won't take responsibility for that.
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:::::I think this is the best I can do here, the next step to explain all this could be making a movie or a five-act play, but I hope it's not necessary :)
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:::::-- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 05:56, 30 September 2012 (UTC)
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== Mounting the Swap partition. ==
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Just a note to clarify the swap partition is '''NOT''' mounted.
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You will get an error message if you try.
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Turning on the partition with ''swapon'' command will have the desired effect of having it activated before you add it to /etc/fstab.
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--[[User:CaptainK|CaptainK]] ([[User talk:CaptainK|talk]]) 07:56, 12 June 2013 (UTC)
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Latest revision as of 16:05, 24 June 2016

Read this first before adding new suggestions

  • The point of this page is to not become another Beginners' guide. It is meant to be a concise checklist of things to be done. So, detailed installation instructions should go to Beginners' guide.
  • If there is something to discuss which should also affect the Beginners' guide, then do it on Talk:Beginners' guide. An advanced user will find this page less bloated and easier to read, so let's KISS.
  • systemd tools such as hostnamectl, timedatectl and localectl do not work in the installation chroot environment, so please do not propose to use them in the guide unless you can prove that they have been made to work also in that case. See [1], [2], [3] and [4] for some past discussions about this issue.

Let's mention filesystem tools in pacstrap step

I propose changing the sentence to Other packages or groups can be installed by appending their names to the above command (space separated), possibly including the boot loader or filesystem tools. As the purpose of the site is that it is a checklist, it should mention the most common pacstrap packages such as filesystem tools (for example btrfs-progs are needed separately).

—This unsigned comment is by Drws (talk) 18:43, 8 April 2016‎. Please sign your posts with ~~~~!

The base group already includes e2fsprogs, jfsutils, reiserfsprogs, sysfsutils and xfsprogs, but no boot loader (except systemd-boot). Adding a hint for filesystem tools is of much less value than boot loaders, because the system will boot even without the file system tools, which would otherwise have to be loaded from the file system they should make accessible. -- Lahwaacz (talk) 20:58, 8 April 2016 (UTC)
I agree. If you install to (e.g.) btrfs, generating the initramfs later on is bound to fail without required tools installed. Yet, "possibly the boot loader" is a little fuzzy itself: If you (a) want to install a boot loader before the chroot (e.g. its install target /mnt/boot), you would need to install it to the booted ramdisk first. If you (b) install it regularly, inside the chroot, the boot loader instructions will tell what you need and the general hint should be better moved to Installation guide#Install a boot loader itself.
I suggest we change the sentence like so:
"Other packages or groups (e.g. any your system may require on top for the first boot) can be installed directly, by appending the names to the above command (space separated), or individually during the next step."
And make the boot loader hint more explicit, by changing Installation guide#Install a boot loader to:
"Install a boot loader package and the boot loader to the respective bootable partition. See Boot loaders for the available choices and configuration."
Both changes keeping in mind, the main target group for this guide should be being a checklist for advanced users without previous exposure to the distro/tools. --Indigo (talk) 11:09, 4 June 2016 (UTC)

EFI System Partition link must be changed

The "EFI System Partition" link is currently broken. It should be updated to link to https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/EFI_System_Partition. I don't appear to have the permissions to change it, so please someone with the right permissions...

Fixed, thanks. -- Lahwaacz (talk) 16:05, 24 June 2016 (UTC)