Difference between revisions of "Talk:Installation guide"

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(Document changes for filesystem package / Update sections where necessary: new section)
(Document changes for filesystem package / Update sections where necessary: remove closed)
 
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* systemd tools such as ''hostnamectl'', ''timedatectl'' and ''localectl'' [https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/798#issuecomment-126568596 do not work] in the installation chroot environment, so please do not propose to use them in the guide unless you can prove that they have been made to work also in that case. See [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Talk:Beginners%27_guide&oldid=388727#General_problems], [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Talk:Beginners%27_guide&oldid=404695#Replace_commands_with_their_systemd_equivalents], [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Talk:Beginners%27_guide&oldid=418662#Utilizing_systemd_tools] and [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Talk:Installation_guide&oldid=434985#change_configuration_system_from_old_way_to_new_way.28using_systemd_commands.29] for some past discussions about this issue.
 
* systemd tools such as ''hostnamectl'', ''timedatectl'' and ''localectl'' [https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/798#issuecomment-126568596 do not work] in the installation chroot environment, so please do not propose to use them in the guide unless you can prove that they have been made to work also in that case. See [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Talk:Beginners%27_guide&oldid=388727#General_problems], [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Talk:Beginners%27_guide&oldid=404695#Replace_commands_with_their_systemd_equivalents], [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Talk:Beginners%27_guide&oldid=418662#Utilizing_systemd_tools] and [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Talk:Installation_guide&oldid=434985#change_configuration_system_from_old_way_to_new_way.28using_systemd_commands.29] for some past discussions about this issue.
 
* {{ic|localectl list-keymaps}} does not work due to bug {{Bug|46725}}. For the chosen replacement command, see [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Talk:Beginners%27_guide&oldid=435044#localectl].
 
* {{ic|localectl list-keymaps}} does not work due to bug {{Bug|46725}}. For the chosen replacement command, see [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Talk:Beginners%27_guide&oldid=435044#localectl].
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* {{ic|localhost}} must be set explicitely in {{ic|/etc/hosts}}, as it is otherwise resolved over the network. See {{Bug|56684}}.
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-- [[ArchWiki:Administrators|The ArchWiki Administrators]] 22:17, 2 September 2016 (UTC)
  
-- [[ArchWiki:Administrators|The ArchWiki Administrators]] 22:17, 2 September 2016 (UTC)
 
 
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Next ISOs may use systemd-networkd instead of dhcpcd, see [https://lists.archlinux.org/pipermail/arch-releng/2016-July/003739.html] -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 10:26, 19 July 2016 (UTC)
 
Next ISOs may use systemd-networkd instead of dhcpcd, see [https://lists.archlinux.org/pipermail/arch-releng/2016-July/003739.html] -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 10:26, 19 July 2016 (UTC)
 
== Wireless Configuration ==
 
 
The advice for wireless network setup to refer to the wireless networking page in the Wiki could present a new user with a significant hurdle to overcome. The ARCH ISO contains wifi-menu, which should be sufficient for most purposes to establish a wireless network conneciton. I propose that informaton be added to the networking section at the start of the page stating:
 
 
For wireless connections, iw(8), wpa_supplicant(8) and netctl are available. See Wireless network configuration. The ARCH ISO makes wifi-menu available. The wifi-menu programme should be sufficiently powerful for most users to establish a connection to a known WiFi network. {{Unsigned|11:49, 18 October 2016‎|Deggy}}
 
 
:My eventual plan is to propose a man page for wifi_menu, then we can just link to that one instead of netctl. -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 10:32, 18 October 2016 (UTC)
 
 
::That would be great, I'd try to help; welcome to drop me a note about it. In the meantime I'd be +1 to Deggy's suggestion. Simplest way for new Archers, most of them will be used to a distro automatically enabling a network tool. Likewise, a simple sentence above it ala "see [[dhcpcd#Running]] for a quick start and [[Network configuration]] for free choice." would make it simpler for those wired users. --[[User:Indigo|Indigo]] ([[User talk:Indigo|talk]]) 10:33, 18 March 2017 (UTC)
 
 
:::Thanks. Though I disagree on another link to [[dhcpcd]] in [[Installation_guide#Network_configuration]]; attentive users will have noticed that it is the method used in the installation environment, and [[Installation_guide#Configure_the_system]] specifically avoids recommending particular software choices for the new system (due to endless bickering in our user base on what's "best" or "recommended").
 
:::Regarding wifi-menu, its usage is poorly covered even in the [[netctl]] article ([[Netctl#Wireless_.28WPA-PSK.29]] doesn't even mention how to select an interface) so that, or said man page, should be fixed first in my view. -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 22:38, 18 March 2017 (UTC)
 
 
::::[https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Netctl&type=revision&diff=471232&oldid=471030] Well, in this case "The [[dhcpcd]] daemon is [https://git.archlinux.org/archiso.git/tree/configs/releng/airootfs/etc/udev/rules.d/81-dhcpcd.rules enabled] on boot for '''wired''' devices,.." should be changed to "On the installation image the [[dhcpcd]] daemon is [[enable]]d on boot for '''wired''' devices,...", because the crosslink helps a new user more than the udev rule and it currently suggests a non-existent default. Likewise, [[Installation guide#Network configuration]] should clarify it again with "The newly installed environment has no network connection activated per default. See [[Network configuration]] to configure one." --[[User:Indigo|Indigo]] ([[User talk:Indigo|talk]]) 00:00, 19 March 2017 (UTC)
 
 
:::::Sounds reasonable and would also strike off one point in [[#Notes]]. :) I think the link to the udev rule is still useful though, perhaps suitable for the ''wired'' word. -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 02:13, 19 March 2017 (UTC)
 
 
::::::[https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Installation_guide&type=revision&diff=471297&oldid=469435] @Deggy: Your suggestion not fully picked up yet, but for now ''wifi-menu'' is directly mentioned behind the [[Netctl#Wireless_.28WPA-PSK.29|netctl]] link. --[[User:Indigo|Indigo]] ([[User talk:Indigo|talk]]) 18:01, 19 March 2017 (UTC)
 
 
:::::::Different suggestion: remove the links to [[netctl]] & co. alltogether, as this is already described in [[Wireless configuration]]. The table in [[Wireless_network_configuration#Automatic_setup]] could be expanded or generalized to mention {{Pkg|wireless-tools}} is unavailable on archiso.
 
:::::::In other words:
 
::::::::If no connection is available, [[stop]] the ''dhcpcd'' service with {{ic|systemctl stop dhcpcd@}}, {{ic|Tab}} and see [[Network configuration]] for '''wired''' devices or [[Wireless network configuration]] for '''wireless''' devices.
 
:::::::-- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 12:46, 17 November 2017 (UTC)
 
 
== Suggest using genfstab -t PARTUUID for GPT partition tables. ==
 
 
The guide currently suggests using -U or -L for UUIDs or labels respectively. I think there should be some mention of using PARTUUIDs for GPT partition tables.
 
 
[[User:BrandonSchumann|BrandonSchumann]] ([[User talk:BrandonSchumann|talk]]) 20:28, 30 October 2017 (UTC)
 
 
:PARTUUID's aren't always generated. At least in my case with using btrfs subvolumes it doesn't output them when using "-t PARTUUID".  -- [[User:Rdeckard|Rdeckard]] ([[User_talk:Rdeckard|talk]]) 11:30, 16 November 2017 (UTC)
 
  
 
== Include hint at top of page for install.txt ==
 
== Include hint at top of page for install.txt ==
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:install.txt is not a real copy in the sense that all wiki links are missing, and those without two computers can simply switch ttys to elinks as is described in [[Installation_guide#Pre-installation]] (throughout the guide, a working internet connection is assumed). -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 07:57, 14 November 2017 (UTC)
 
:install.txt is not a real copy in the sense that all wiki links are missing, and those without two computers can simply switch ttys to elinks as is described in [[Installation_guide#Pre-installation]] (throughout the guide, a working internet connection is assumed). -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 07:57, 14 November 2017 (UTC)
  
== Bootloader section should warn users they must install one ==
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== Link to the German version ==
The bootloader section should warn users they won't be able to boot into their installed system unless they install a bootloader. Currently it is very easy to miss the importance of a bootloader. [[User:Xinxiang|Xinxiang]] ([[User talk:Xinxiang|talk]]) 23:02, 15 November 2017 (UTC)
 
 
 
:The guide says "See [[:Category:Boot loaders]]...". The first sentence on that page is "In order to boot Arch Linux, a Linux-capable boot loader must be installed...".  -- [[User:Rdeckard|Rdeckard]] ([[User_talk:Rdeckard|talk]]) 11:27, 16 November 2017 (UTC)
 
 
 
::I guess you could add a shortened version of that introduction, but I'm not sure how it would help users who skip sections of the guide at random... -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 00:39, 17 November 2017 (UTC)
 
 
 
:: If someone has clicked that link, they're already going to install the bootloader. The warning should be for those who may skip past it. [[User:Xinxiang|Xinxiang]] ([[User talk:Xinxiang|talk]]) 01:36, 18 November 2017 (UTC)
 
 
 
::: I'm not fundamentally opposed to adding further description to the boot loader section, but I can hardly agree with that argument. No section in the installation guide is optional, apart from [[Installation guide#Initramfs]] which clearly mentions so. Why should we account for people who think otherwise? -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 09:49, 19 November 2017 (UTC)
 
 
 
:::: Looking at the other sections there are statements such as "The newly installed environment has no network connection activated by default." under Network Configuration or there are clear imperatives "Generate an fstab file...". I think adding a statement such as "Install and configure a boot loader." before "See Category:Boot Loaders..." might clarify things.  -- [[User:Rdeckard|Rdeckard]] ([[User_talk:Rdeckard|talk]]) 11:31, 21 November 2017 (UTC)
 
 
 
::::: I just copy-pasted the statement from [[:Category:Boot loaders]]: [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Installation_guide&diff=500284&oldid=500282] Feel free to suggest improved wording. -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 18:02, 1 December 2017 (UTC)
 
  
== Document changes for filesystem package / Update sections where necessary ==
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Instead of [[de:Arch Install Scripts]] you could choose [[de:Anleitung für Einsteiger]] it means "Beginner's Guid" and is a very
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detailed artikel for very new arch users and the future experts.
  
The filesystem package underwent some changes and the installation guide is not up to date anymore. Especially the part about the hosts file is not correct anymore. Additionally, group ids are not static anymore.
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:Thank you, [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Installation_guide&type=revision&diff=509961&oldid=508505 done]. -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 16:31, 6 February 2018 (UTC)
  
For details please have a look here:
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::This was already proposed last year and rejected: [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Talk:Installation_guide&oldid=466950#Suggesting_different_page_for_German_translation]. I don't see what has changed since then.  If someone adds me as admin to the german wiki or changes the protection settings, I can update [[de:Arch Install Scripts]] as required. -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 18:13, 6 February 2018 (UTC)
  
https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?pid=1754949#p1754949
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:::I see, I didn't remember that discussion so I've reverted the change, hopefully you'll make it to update the translation, let's leave this open until the problem is solved, otherwise this kind of suggestion will keep appearing recurrently. -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 17:53, 7 February 2018 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 17:56, 7 February 2018

Read this first before adding new suggestions

  • systemd tools such as hostnamectl, timedatectl and localectl do not work in the installation chroot environment, so please do not propose to use them in the guide unless you can prove that they have been made to work also in that case. See [1], [2], [3] and [4] for some past discussions about this issue.
  • localectl list-keymaps does not work due to bug FS#46725. For the chosen replacement command, see [5].
  • localhost must be set explicitely in /etc/hosts, as it is otherwise resolved over the network. See FS#56684.

-- The ArchWiki Administrators 22:17, 2 September 2016 (UTC)

pacman-key --populate

[Moved from Talk:Beginners' guide. -- Alad (talk) 20:38, 12 July 2016 (UTC)]

Reference: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Beginners%27_guide&diff=next&oldid=411670 I tried to install Archlinux on my new computer and got stuck. Only using the pacman-key --populate archlinux helped me. I think I am not the only one having this problem. But why did you undo it? —This unsigned comment is by Sandstorm (talk) 20:38, 12 December 2015‎. Please sign your posts with ~~~~!

This command is already run for the new system (by installation of archlinux-keyring), so running it by hand shouldn't be required for most users. Of course, things can go wrong (how old was the ISO you used to install the system?), but that belongs in Troubleshooting sections of the respective articles, which are linked at the beginning of the guide. -- Alad (talk) 19:52, 12 December 2015 (UTC)
I had downloaded the ISO just yesterday, minutes before the install. Only that command installed the keys. Probably I should open a bug if you can confirm the issue?
Did you have to run pacman-key after, or before pacstrap? And do you recall what the error messages said exactly? (See also FS#31286) -- Alad (talk) 20:15, 12 December 2015 (UTC)
I had to run after pacstrap. As far as I remember, pacstrap stopped after trying to download the keys. The error message was something like shown in this forum post: https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=165367
Well then, as you suggested, I'd open a bug report. -- Alad (talk) 20:34, 12 December 2015 (UTC)
Done. Could you check if the description is good. I could not find an appropriate category, so I though Packages:Core might be the closest one. https://bugs.archlinux.org/task/47351 --Sandstorm (talk) 20:48, 12 December 2015 (UTC)
Thanks, the description looks OK. If the category e.a is not right, User:Scimmia should fix it. :P -- Alad (talk) 13:59, 13 December 2015 (UTC)
Hmm, looks like it was closed with "Works for me" ... not very enlightening. All I can suggest is to further improve on Pacman/Package signing and related articles, and recheck if they're accessible enough from the Beginners' guide. -- Alad (talk) 21:59, 12 February 2016 (UTC)

Switch to systemd-networkd

Next ISOs may use systemd-networkd instead of dhcpcd, see [6] -- Alad (talk) 10:26, 19 July 2016 (UTC)

Include hint at top of page for install.txt

Inform users that a copy of the installation guide can be found in ~/install.txt on the live CD.

This would be incredibly helpful for users who potentially don't have access to two computers at the same time. —This unsigned comment is by Cheeseypi (talk) 23:33, 13 November 2017‎. Please sign your posts with ~~~~!

install.txt is not a real copy in the sense that all wiki links are missing, and those without two computers can simply switch ttys to elinks as is described in Installation_guide#Pre-installation (throughout the guide, a working internet connection is assumed). -- Alad (talk) 07:57, 14 November 2017 (UTC)

Link to the German version

Instead of de:Arch Install Scripts you could choose de:Anleitung für Einsteiger it means "Beginner's Guid" and is a very detailed artikel for very new arch users and the future experts.

Thank you, done. -- Kynikos (talk) 16:31, 6 February 2018 (UTC)
This was already proposed last year and rejected: [7]. I don't see what has changed since then. If someone adds me as admin to the german wiki or changes the protection settings, I can update de:Arch Install Scripts as required. -- Alad (talk) 18:13, 6 February 2018 (UTC)
I see, I didn't remember that discussion so I've reverted the change, hopefully you'll make it to update the translation, let's leave this open until the problem is solved, otherwise this kind of suggestion will keep appearing recurrently. -- Kynikos (talk) 17:53, 7 February 2018 (UTC)