Talk:Installation guide

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Revision as of 17:53, 7 February 2018 by Kynikos (talk | contribs) (Link to the German version: reopen)
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Read this first before adding new suggestions

  • systemd tools such as hostnamectl, timedatectl and localectl do not work in the installation chroot environment, so please do not propose to use them in the guide unless you can prove that they have been made to work also in that case. See [1], [2], [3] and [4] for some past discussions about this issue.
  • localectl list-keymaps does not work due to bug FS#46725. For the chosen replacement command, see [5].
  • localhost must be set explicitely in /etc/hosts, as it is otherwise resolved over the network. See FS#56684.

-- The ArchWiki Administrators 22:17, 2 September 2016 (UTC)

pacman-key --populate

[Moved from Talk:Beginners' guide. -- Alad (talk) 20:38, 12 July 2016 (UTC)]

Reference: I tried to install Archlinux on my new computer and got stuck. Only using the pacman-key --populate archlinux helped me. I think I am not the only one having this problem. But why did you undo it? —This unsigned comment is by Sandstorm (talk) 20:38, 12 December 2015‎. Please sign your posts with ~~~~!

This command is already run for the new system (by installation of archlinux-keyring), so running it by hand shouldn't be required for most users. Of course, things can go wrong (how old was the ISO you used to install the system?), but that belongs in Troubleshooting sections of the respective articles, which are linked at the beginning of the guide. -- Alad (talk) 19:52, 12 December 2015 (UTC)
I had downloaded the ISO just yesterday, minutes before the install. Only that command installed the keys. Probably I should open a bug if you can confirm the issue?
Did you have to run pacman-key after, or before pacstrap? And do you recall what the error messages said exactly? (See also FS#31286) -- Alad (talk) 20:15, 12 December 2015 (UTC)
I had to run after pacstrap. As far as I remember, pacstrap stopped after trying to download the keys. The error message was something like shown in this forum post:
Well then, as you suggested, I'd open a bug report. -- Alad (talk) 20:34, 12 December 2015 (UTC)
Done. Could you check if the description is good. I could not find an appropriate category, so I though Packages:Core might be the closest one. --Sandstorm (talk) 20:48, 12 December 2015 (UTC)
Thanks, the description looks OK. If the category e.a is not right, User:Scimmia should fix it. :P -- Alad (talk) 13:59, 13 December 2015 (UTC)
Hmm, looks like it was closed with "Works for me" ... not very enlightening. All I can suggest is to further improve on Pacman/Package signing and related articles, and recheck if they're accessible enough from the Beginners' guide. -- Alad (talk) 21:59, 12 February 2016 (UTC)

Switch to systemd-networkd

Next ISOs may use systemd-networkd instead of dhcpcd, see [6] -- Alad (talk) 10:26, 19 July 2016 (UTC)

Wireless Configuration

The advice for wireless network setup to refer to the wireless networking page in the Wiki could present a new user with a significant hurdle to overcome. The ARCH ISO contains wifi-menu, which should be sufficient for most purposes to establish a wireless network conneciton. I propose that informaton be added to the networking section at the start of the page stating:

For wireless connections, iw(8), wpa_supplicant(8) and netctl are available. See Wireless network configuration. The ARCH ISO makes wifi-menu available. The wifi-menu programme should be sufficiently powerful for most users to establish a connection to a known WiFi network. —This unsigned comment is by Deggy (talk) 11:49, 18 October 2016‎. Please sign your posts with ~~~~!

My eventual plan is to propose a man page for wifi_menu, then we can just link to that one instead of netctl. -- Alad (talk) 10:32, 18 October 2016 (UTC)
That would be great, I'd try to help; welcome to drop me a note about it. In the meantime I'd be +1 to Deggy's suggestion. Simplest way for new Archers, most of them will be used to a distro automatically enabling a network tool. Likewise, a simple sentence above it ala "see dhcpcd#Running for a quick start and Network configuration for free choice." would make it simpler for those wired users. --Indigo (talk) 10:33, 18 March 2017 (UTC)
Thanks. Though I disagree on another link to dhcpcd in Installation_guide#Network_configuration; attentive users will have noticed that it is the method used in the installation environment, and Installation_guide#Configure_the_system specifically avoids recommending particular software choices for the new system (due to endless bickering in our user base on what's "best" or "recommended").
Regarding wifi-menu, its usage is poorly covered even in the netctl article (Netctl#Wireless_.28WPA-PSK.29 doesn't even mention how to select an interface) so that, or said man page, should be fixed first in my view. -- Alad (talk) 22:38, 18 March 2017 (UTC)
[7] Well, in this case "The dhcpcd daemon is enabled on boot for wired devices,.." should be changed to "On the installation image the dhcpcd daemon is enabled on boot for wired devices,...", because the crosslink helps a new user more than the udev rule and it currently suggests a non-existent default. Likewise, Installation guide#Network configuration should clarify it again with "The newly installed environment has no network connection activated per default. See Network configuration to configure one." --Indigo (talk) 00:00, 19 March 2017 (UTC)
Sounds reasonable and would also strike off one point in #Notes. :) I think the link to the udev rule is still useful though, perhaps suitable for the wired word. -- Alad (talk) 02:13, 19 March 2017 (UTC)
[8] @Deggy: Your suggestion not fully picked up yet, but for now wifi-menu is directly mentioned behind the netctl link. --Indigo (talk) 18:01, 19 March 2017 (UTC)
Different suggestion: remove the links to netctl & co. alltogether, as this is already described in Wireless configuration. The table in Wireless_network_configuration#Automatic_setup could be expanded or generalized to mention wireless-tools is unavailable on archiso.
In other words:
If no connection is available, stop the dhcpcd service with systemctl stop dhcpcd@, Tab and see Network configuration for wired devices or Wireless network configuration for wireless devices.
-- Alad (talk) 12:46, 17 November 2017 (UTC)
Implemented. Closing. -- Alad (talk) 13:37, 25 January 2018 (UTC)

Suggest using genfstab -t PARTUUID for GPT partition tables.

The guide currently suggests using -U or -L for UUIDs or labels respectively. I think there should be some mention of using PARTUUIDs for GPT partition tables.

BrandonSchumann (talk) 20:28, 30 October 2017 (UTC)

PARTUUID's aren't always generated. At least in my case with using btrfs subvolumes it doesn't output them when using "-t PARTUUID". -- Rdeckard (talk) 11:30, 16 November 2017 (UTC)
Closing for lack of further comments. -- Alad (talk) 13:38, 25 January 2018 (UTC)

Include hint at top of page for install.txt

Inform users that a copy of the installation guide can be found in ~/install.txt on the live CD.

This would be incredibly helpful for users who potentially don't have access to two computers at the same time. —This unsigned comment is by Cheeseypi (talk) 23:33, 13 November 2017‎. Please sign your posts with ~~~~!

install.txt is not a real copy in the sense that all wiki links are missing, and those without two computers can simply switch ttys to elinks as is described in Installation_guide#Pre-installation (throughout the guide, a working internet connection is assumed). -- Alad (talk) 07:57, 14 November 2017 (UTC)

Document changes for filesystem package / Update sections where necessary

The filesystem package underwent some changes and the installation guide is not up to date anymore. Especially the part about the hosts file is not correct anymore. Additionally, group ids are not static anymore.

For details please have a look here:

—This unsigned comment is by Jrk (talk) 07:20, 14 December 2017‎. Please sign your posts with ~~~~!

Here is the change in question. -- Rdeckard (talk) 01:51, 23 January 2018 (UTC)
Manually changing /etc/hosts is now more required than before since otherwise localhost is resolved over the network. See FS#56684. -- Alad (talk) 13:06, 25 January 2018 (UTC)

Link to the German version

Instead of de:Arch Install Scripts you could choose de:Anleitung für Einsteiger it means "Beginner's Guid" and is a very detailed artikel for very new arch users and the future experts.

Thank you, done. -- Kynikos (talk) 16:31, 6 February 2018 (UTC)
This was already proposed last year and rejected: [9]. I don't see what has changed since then. If someone adds me as admin to the german wiki or changes the protection settings, I can update de:Arch Install Scripts as required. -- Alad (talk) 18:13, 6 February 2018 (UTC)
I see, I didn't remember that discussion so I've reverted the change, hopefully you'll make it to update the translation, let's leave this open until the problem is solved, otherwise this kind of suggestion will keep appearing recurrently. -- Kynikos (talk) 17:53, 7 February 2018 (UTC)