Difference between revisions of "Talk:Installation guide"

From ArchWiki
Jump to navigation Jump to search
(Link to the German version)
(Boot loader options: re)
 
(327 intermediate revisions by 37 users not shown)
Line 5: Line 5:
 
* {{ic|localhost}} must be set explicitely in {{ic|/etc/hosts}}, as it is otherwise resolved over the network. See {{Bug|56684}}.
 
* {{ic|localhost}} must be set explicitely in {{ic|/etc/hosts}}, as it is otherwise resolved over the network. See {{Bug|56684}}.
 
-- [[ArchWiki:Administrators|The ArchWiki Administrators]] 22:17, 2 September 2016 (UTC)
 
-- [[ArchWiki:Administrators|The ArchWiki Administrators]] 22:17, 2 September 2016 (UTC)
 +
__TOC__
 +
 +
== Link to the German version ==
  
__TOC__
+
Instead of [[de:Arch Install Scripts]] you could choose [[de:Anleitung für Einsteiger]] it means "Beginner's Guid" and is a very
 +
detailed artikel for very new arch users and the future experts.
 +
 
 +
:Thank you, [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Installation_guide&type=revision&diff=509961&oldid=508505 done]. -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 16:31, 6 February 2018 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
::This was already proposed last year and rejected: [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Talk:Installation_guide&oldid=466950#Suggesting_different_page_for_German_translation]. I don't see what has changed since then.  If someone adds me as admin to the german wiki or changes the protection settings, I can update [[de:Arch Install Scripts]] as required. -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 18:13, 6 February 2018 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
:::I see, I didn't remember that discussion so I've reverted the change, hopefully you'll make it to update the translation, let's leave this open until the problem is solved, otherwise this kind of suggestion will keep appearing recurrently. -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 17:53, 7 February 2018 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
== Network configuration ==
 +
 
 +
=== dhcpcd for installed environment ===
 +
 
 +
How about we add a sentence to [[Installation_guide#Network_configuration]] describing how to restore use of ''dhcpcd'' as done on the installation medium? That way if the connection already worked on installation people only need a brief look at [[dhcpcd]]. -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 15:48, 27 May 2018 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
:I think that would just hide the possibility of choice from users. Maybe just say that dhcpcd is not enabled on the installed system without recommending anything. -- [[User:Lahwaacz|Lahwaacz]] ([[User talk:Lahwaacz|talk]]) 17:34, 27 May 2018 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
== Why should a static IP be preferred over 127.0.1.1 in /etc/hosts? ==
 +
 
 +
"If the system has a permanent IP address, it should be used instead of 127.0.1.1."
 +
 
 +
I think the ArchWiki should not just say do X but also why. [[User:Alad|Alad]] as you added this, perhaps you can explain?--[[User:Larivact|Larivact]] ([[User talk:Larivact|talk]]) 15:14, 21 May 2018 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
:In [[Network_configuration#Local hostname resolution]]: "For a system with a permanent IP address, that permanent IP address should be used instead of 127.0.1.1." -- [[User:Lahwaacz|Lahwaacz]] ([[User talk:Lahwaacz|talk]]) 06:48, 22 May 2018 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
::[https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Network_configuration&diff=340138&oldid=333485 First] appearance in our wiki, cited [https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-reference/ch05.en.html#_the_hostname_resolution source], also [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Talk:Network_configuration&oldid=360328#Hostname_resolution discussion]. -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 10:26, 22 May 2018 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
== Network Configuration -- WiFi discussion ==
 +
 
 +
I'm starting a new thread seeing as the last one took a different direction and never really got resolved.
 +
 
 +
----
 +
 
 +
As it stands, the current instructions for the installation guide make it challenging for users who need to connect to the internet via a Wireless connection rather than wired. The [[Installation_guide#Connect_to_the_Internet]] section essentially assumes the users are using a wired connection, and to test it with a ping. Otherwise, they are directed to the [[Network_configuration]] page. Unfortunately, that page does not provide clear instructions for new users (or even those who just want to do a quick connection) to establish a connection via wireless. Equally so, should users find their way to the [[Wireless_network_configuration]] page, there is some digging to do there in order to find instructions to setup a connection. These are currently using the iw command, which may prove to be challenging to some.
 +
I see a few different possible solutions to improve the user experience:
 +
* Add explicit instructions to the installation guide
 +
** This is not ideal, as it adds another place to maintain likely duplicate information
 +
* Add a reference to the [[Wireless_network_configuration]] page
 +
** This is better, though the page would likely need a new section, or some tweaking to allow users to more easily find the information they need to get setup
 +
* Add new/better instructions to the [[Network_configuration]] page
 +
** This may also prove to be tricky, seeing as that page is already fairly monolithic, and focuses mostly on wired connections
 +
One other consideration (of which I also don't see any progress) is the discussions revolving around moving and breaking down the Network Configuration guides, to separate Wired and Wireless content. With this move I could see such instructions being provided there. In any case, the guide should provide instructions that are:
 +
* Easy to follow, particularly for new users
 +
* Puts no emphasis on persisting configurations, as this is not applicable during the install phase
 +
* Offers options (choice is King)
 +
--[[User:CubeTheThird|CubeTheThird]] ([[User talk:CubeTheThird|talk]]) 23:47, 26 August 2018 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
:The [[Wireless network configuration]] link [[Special:Diff/523161|was removed]] because it cannot be used independently of [[Network configuration]]. I propose the following:
 +
:# Implement [[Talk:Network configuration#Moving Ethernet-specific sections to Wired subpage]]. [[Network configuration]] currently isn't straightforward. The actual setup instructions are hidden in the ''Network management'' section and it's confusing that wireless has a subpage but wired and medium-agnostic configuration are mixed together. See [[User:Larivact/drafts/Network configuration|my demo]].
 +
:# <s>Have the ''Connect to the Internet'' section only link [[Network configuration]] and move the dhcpcd udev rule note there.</s>
 +
:# Move [[Wireless network configuration]] to [[Network configuration/Wireless]] and move its ''iw'' section to a dedicated article because since recently we also have [[iwd]].
 +
:The result should be more user-friendly without duplicating content.
 +
:--[[User:Larivact|Larivact]] ([[User talk:Larivact|talk]]) 07:13, 27 August 2018 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
::As for your demo, note that in [[Talk:Network_configuration#Ongoing_rewrite]], [[User:Alad|Alad]] said: "ping is one of the very first commands a new user has to run on installation to verify the availability of an internet connection". So unless you intend to direct users from the installation guide directly to the [[Network configuration#Troubleshooting]] section, there is still some more thinking to be done... -- [[User:Lahwaacz|Lahwaacz]] ([[User talk:Lahwaacz|talk]]) 07:21, 28 August 2018 (UTC)
  
== pacman-key --populate ==
+
:::Well then let's keep ''Connect to the Internet'' and revise it:
  
:''[Moved from [[Talk:Beginners' guide]]. -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 20:38, 12 July 2016 (UTC)]''
+
The installation image has [https://git.archlinux.org/archiso.git/tree/configs/releng/airootfs/etc/udev/rules.d/81-dhcpcd.rules a udev rule] that enables the [[dhcpcd]] service for Ethernet network interfaces on boot. If you use Ethernet, verify the connection with [[ping]]:
  
Reference: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Beginners%27_guide&diff=next&oldid=411670
+
# ping archlinux.org
I tried to install Archlinux on my new computer and got stuck. Only using the {{ic|pacman-key --populate archlinux}} helped me. I think I am not the only one having this problem. But why did you undo it? {{Unsigned|20:38, 12 December 2015‎|Sandstorm}}
 
:This command is already run for the new system (by installation of archlinux-keyring), so running it by hand shouldn't be required for most users. Of course, things can go wrong (how old was the ISO you used to install the system?), but that belongs in Troubleshooting sections of the respective articles, which are linked at the beginning of the guide. -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 19:52, 12 December 2015 (UTC)
 
::I had downloaded the ISO just yesterday, minutes before the install. Only that command installed the keys. Probably I should open a bug if you can confirm the issue?
 
:::Did you have to run pacman-key after, or before pacstrap? And do you recall what the error messages said exactly? (See also {{Bug|31286}}) -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 20:15, 12 December 2015 (UTC)
 
::::I had to run after pacstrap. As far as I remember, pacstrap stopped after trying to download the keys. The error message was something like shown in this forum post: https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=165367
 
:::::Well then, as you suggested, I'd open a bug report. -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 20:34, 12 December 2015 (UTC)
 
::::::Done. Could you check if the description is good. I could not find an appropriate category, so I though Packages:Core might be the closest one. https://bugs.archlinux.org/task/47351 --[[User:Sandstorm|Sandstorm]] ([[User talk:Sandstorm|talk]]) 20:48, 12 December 2015 (UTC)
 
:::::::Thanks, the description looks OK. If the category e.a is not right, [[Special:Contributions/Scimmia|User:Scimmia]] should fix it. :P -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 13:59, 13 December 2015 (UTC)
 
  
::::::::Hmm, looks like it was closed with "Works for me" ... not very enlightening. All I can suggest is to further improve on [[Pacman/Package signing]] and related articles, and recheck if they're accessible enough from the Beginners' guide. -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 21:59, 12 February 2016 (UTC)
+
If the ping fails see [[Network configuration#Troubleshooting]]. If you want to use Wi-Fi or a static IP address, [[stop]] the ''dhcpcd'' service with {{ic|systemctl stop dhcpcd@''interface''}} where the {{ic|''interface''}} name can be [[Wikipedia:Command-line_completion|tab-completed]] and proceed with [[Network configuration]].
  
== Switch to systemd-networkd ==
+
:::--[[User:Larivact|Larivact]] ([[User talk:Larivact|talk]]) 08:41, 28 August 2018 (UTC)
  
Next ISOs may use systemd-networkd instead of dhcpcd, see [https://lists.archlinux.org/pipermail/arch-releng/2016-July/003739.html] -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 10:26, 19 July 2016 (UTC)
+
::::That looks good to me. -- [[User:Lahwaacz|Lahwaacz]] ([[User talk:Lahwaacz|talk]]) 14:57, 28 August 2018 (UTC)
  
== <s>Wireless Configuration</s> ==
+
== fstab ==
  
The advice for wireless network setup to refer to the wireless networking page in the Wiki could present a new user with a significant hurdle to overcome. The ARCH ISO contains wifi-menu, which should be sufficient for most purposes to establish a wireless network conneciton. I propose that informaton be added to the networking section at the start of the page stating:
+
The section about generating the fstab with genfstab mentions -U and -L options but not the possibility to use GPT identifiers PARTUUID and PARTLABEL with the '-t' option. Those are described in [[Persistent block device naming]] and are a better choice for some users. genfstab itself doesn't explicitly list the GPT options either so IMHO it would be helpful to add this info here.
  
For wireless connections, iw(8), wpa_supplicant(8) and netctl are available. See Wireless network configuration. The ARCH ISO makes wifi-menu available. The wifi-menu programme should be sufficiently powerful for most users to establish a connection to a known WiFi network. {{Unsigned|11:49, 18 October 2016‎|Deggy}}
+
{{unsigned|15:12, 9 October 2018‎|Grmat}}
  
:My eventual plan is to propose a man page for wifi_menu, then we can just link to that one instead of netctl. -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 10:32, 18 October 2016 (UTC)
+
:In that case you should open a bug / file a patch such that {{ic|genfstab}} does list these options. The wiki shouldn't make up for missing basic documentation in distribution tools. -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 17:49, 13 March 2019 (UTC)
  
::That would be great, I'd try to help; welcome to drop me a note about it. In the meantime I'd be +1 to Deggy's suggestion. Simplest way for new Archers, most of them will be used to a distro automatically enabling a network tool. Likewise, a simple sentence above it ala "see [[dhcpcd#Running]] for a quick start and [[Network configuration]] for free choice." would make it simpler for those wired users. --[[User:Indigo|Indigo]] ([[User talk:Indigo|talk]]) 10:33, 18 March 2017 (UTC)
+
== Wording in example layout table and size of EFI partition ==
  
:::Thanks. Though I disagree on another link to [[dhcpcd]] in [[Installation_guide#Network_configuration]]; attentive users will have noticed that it is the method used in the installation environment, and [[Installation_guide#Configure_the_system]] specifically avoids recommending particular software choices for the new system (due to endless bickering in our user base on what's "best" or "recommended").
+
=== Wording in example layout table ===
:::Regarding wifi-menu, its usage is poorly covered even in the [[netctl]] article ([[Netctl#Wireless_.28WPA-PSK.29]] doesn't even mention how to select an interface) so that, or said man page, should be fixed first in my view. -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 22:38, 18 March 2017 (UTC)
 
  
::::[https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Netctl&type=revision&diff=471232&oldid=471030] Well, in this case "The [[dhcpcd]] daemon is [https://git.archlinux.org/archiso.git/tree/configs/releng/airootfs/etc/udev/rules.d/81-dhcpcd.rules enabled] on boot for '''wired''' devices,.." should be changed to "On the installation image the [[dhcpcd]] daemon is [[enable]]d on boot for '''wired''' devices,...", because the crosslink helps a new user more than the udev rule and it currently suggests a non-existent default. Likewise, [[Installation guide#Network configuration]] should clarify it again with "The newly installed environment has no network connection activated per default. See [[Network configuration]] to configure one." --[[User:Indigo|Indigo]] ([[User talk:Indigo|talk]]) 00:00, 19 March 2017 (UTC)
+
Regarding [[Installation_guide#Example_layouts]]:
  
:::::Sounds reasonable and would also strike off one point in [[#Notes]]. :) I think the link to the udev rule is still useful though, perhaps suitable for the ''wired'' word. -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 02:13, 19 March 2017 (UTC)
+
even if  many users will understand remainder of the device as what is left after size of /dev/sdx1 and /dev/sdx3 are subtsructed from the size of the device, I think the order of the table might be confusing for some. Some people might set /dev/sdx2 to the size of the device minus size of /dev/sdx1, and then stumbled at where from 512 MiB, or larger, are to be found for /dev/sdx3. Either suggest the swap space as /dev/sdx2 and / as /dev/sdx3, or better explain the meaning of the remainder of the device for sdx2. [[User:Regid|Regid]] ([[User talk:Regid|talk]]) 14:05, 29 December 2018 (UTC)
  
::::::[https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Installation_guide&type=revision&diff=471297&oldid=469435] @Deggy: Your suggestion not fully picked up yet, but for now ''wifi-menu'' is directly mentioned behind the [[Netctl#Wireless_.28WPA-PSK.29|netctl]] link. --[[User:Indigo|Indigo]] ([[User talk:Indigo|talk]]) 18:01, 19 March 2017 (UTC)
+
:Using /dev/sdx2 for swap is questionable, it doesn't emphasize that swap is optional nor is it consistent with other articles like [[dm-crypt/Encrypting an entire system]]. If you have some better explanation for "remainder of the device" feel free to propose it. -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 08:55, 30 December 2018 (UTC)
 +
:: I was trying to say that a user that patitions his HD by following the table might do the following: look at first row in the table, and creates the EFI partition. Than continue with the 2nd row. So he creates a partition at the remainder of his HD. Now he comes to the 3rd row: where will he get 512 MiB, or larger? As for [[dm-crypt/Encrypting an entire system]], I might be wrong thinking that each partition is considered a separate device, so it doesn't matter if the swap space is before, or after, the / partition. [[User:Regid|Regid]] ([[User talk:Regid|talk]]) 12:41, 30 December 2018 (UTC)
  
:::::::Different suggestion: remove the links to [[netctl]] & co. alltogether, as this is already described in [[Wireless configuration]]. The table in [[Wireless_network_configuration#Automatic_setup]] could be expanded or generalized to mention {{Pkg|wireless-tools}} is unavailable on archiso.
+
::: Perhaps call it "Principal part of the device" instead. NB the term "remainder of the device" is often used for a separate {{ic|/home}} in other articles. --[[User:Indigo|Indigo]] ([[User talk:Indigo|talk]]) 21:33, 3 February 2019 (UTC)
:::::::In other words:
 
::::::::If no connection is available, [[stop]] the ''dhcpcd'' service with {{ic|systemctl stop dhcpcd@}}, {{ic|Tab}} and see [[Network configuration]] for '''wired''' devices or [[Wireless network configuration]] for '''wireless''' devices.
 
:::::::-- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 12:46, 17 November 2017 (UTC)
 
  
::::::::Implemented. Closing. -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 13:37, 25 January 2018 (UTC)
+
=== <s>Size of EFI partition</s> ===
  
== <s>Suggest using genfstab -t PARTUUID for GPT partition tables.</s> ==
+
: Moved to [[Talk:EFI system partition#Size_of_EFI_partition]]. -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 17:40, 13 March 2019 (UTC)
  
The guide currently suggests using -U or -L for UUIDs or labels respectively. I think there should be some mention of using PARTUUIDs for GPT partition tables.
+
== Boot loader installation ==
  
[[User:BrandonSchumann|BrandonSchumann]] ([[User talk:BrandonSchumann|talk]]) 20:28, 30 October 2017 (UTC)
+
[[Installation guide#Boot loader]] doesn't say to '''install''' a boot loader, it only refers to a list of them. How about adding something like "Choose and install at least one boot loader."? -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 19:46, 14 March 2019 (UTC)
  
:PARTUUID's aren't always generated. At least in my case with using btrfs subvolumes it doesn't output them when using "-t PARTUUID".  -- [[User:Rdeckard|Rdeckard]] ([[User_talk:Rdeckard|talk]]) 11:30, 16 November 2017 (UTC)
+
: ''At least'' one? -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 21:09, 14 March 2019 (UTC)
  
::Closing for lack of further comments. -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 13:38, 25 January 2018 (UTC)
+
:: Might not be the most common scenario, but it's possible to use one boot loader for BIOS booting and another for UEFI booting. E.g. [[rEFInd]] for UEFI booting + [[Syslinux]] for BIOS booting. If that use case is too uncommon to be mentioned then just add "Choose and install a boot loader.". -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 21:31, 14 March 2019 (UTC)
  
== Include hint at top of page for install.txt ==
+
=== Boot loader options ===
  
Inform users that a copy of the installation guide can be found in ~/install.txt on the live CD.
+
Is it worth saying that without {{Pkg|systemd-sysvcompat}}, you need to add the {{ic|1=init=/lib/systemd/systemd}} kernel parameter?
  
This would be incredibly helpful for users who potentially don't have access to two computers at the same time. {{unsigned|23:33, 13 November 2017‎|Cheeseypi}}
+
I got a bad surprise when I uninstalled the thing. – [[User:Flying_sheep|flying sheep]] 08:05, 18 April 2019 (UTC)
  
:install.txt is not a real copy in the sense that all wiki links are missing, and those without two computers can simply switch ttys to elinks as is described in [[Installation_guide#Pre-installation]] (throughout the guide, a working internet connection is assumed). -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 07:57, 14 November 2017 (UTC)
+
:That is not something that belongs in the [[Installation guide]]. The {{ic|1=init=}} parameter is documented in [[Kernel parameters#Parameter list]] and its description hints at the consequences of uninstalling {{Pkg|systemd-sysvcompat}}.
 +
:What made you decide to uninstall {{Pkg|systemd-sysvcompat}}? -- [[User:nl6720|nl6720]] ([[User talk:nl6720|talk]]) 10:37, 18 April 2019 (UTC)
  
== <s>Document changes for filesystem package / Update sections where necessary</s> ==
+
== <s>Verify signature -- alternative keyserver</s> ==
  
The filesystem package underwent some changes and the installation guide is not up to date anymore. Especially the part about the hosts file is not correct anymore. Additionally, group ids are not static anymore.
+
It seems <code>pgp.mit.edu</code> has been down for weeks.
  
For details please have a look here:
+
Given that GnuPG has setup its keyserver <code>keys.gnupg.net</code>, perhaps we could add it as an alternative?
  
https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?pid=1754949#p1754949
+
Despite currently it uses a self signed certificate, which limits TLS.
  
{{unsigned|07:20, 14 December 2017‎|Jrk}}
+
[[User:LuxD3si9n|LuxD3si9n]] ([[User talk:LuxD3si9n|talk]]) 18:33, 26 March 2019 (UTC)
  
:[https://git.archlinux.org/svntogit/packages.git/diff/trunk/hosts?h=packages/filesystem&id=20928f58767d34ed6711befd6255f6a0b1706ae8 Here] is the change in question.  -- [[User:Rdeckard|Rdeckard]] ([[User_talk:Rdeckard|talk]]) 01:51, 23 January 2018 (UTC)
+
:I don't know even know why we add a specific keyserver to that line... how to deal with keyservers is described in [[GnuPG#Use_a_keyserver]] already. [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Installation_guide&diff=569896&oldid=568871] -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 00:23, 27 March 2019 (UTC)
  
::Manually changing {{ic|/etc/hosts}} is now more required than before since otherwise localhost is resolved over the network. See {{Bug|56684}}. -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 13:06, 25 January 2018 (UTC)
+
== Confusing partition numbers ==
  
==Link to the German version==
+
The partition numbers on this page are confusing. The table calls the root partition /dev/sdX2, while the text below calls it /dev/sdX1. It should be matched for consistency. [[User:Sabinscabin|Sabinscabin]] ([[User talk:Sabinscabin|talk]]) 20:29, 13 April 2019 (UTC)
Instead of [[de:Arch Install Scripts]] you could choose [[de:Anleitung für Einsteiger]] it means "Beginner's Guid" and is a very
 
detailed artikel for very new arch users and the future experts.
 

Latest revision as of 10:37, 18 April 2019

Read this first before adding new suggestions

  • systemd tools such as hostnamectl, timedatectl and localectl do not work in the installation chroot environment, so please do not propose to use them in the guide unless you can prove that they have been made to work also in that case. See [1], [2], [3] and [4] for some past discussions about this issue.
  • localectl list-keymaps does not work due to bug FS#46725. For the chosen replacement command, see [5].
  • localhost must be set explicitely in /etc/hosts, as it is otherwise resolved over the network. See FS#56684.

-- The ArchWiki Administrators 22:17, 2 September 2016 (UTC)

Link to the German version

Instead of de:Arch Install Scripts you could choose de:Anleitung für Einsteiger it means "Beginner's Guid" and is a very detailed artikel for very new arch users and the future experts.

Thank you, done. -- Kynikos (talk) 16:31, 6 February 2018 (UTC)
This was already proposed last year and rejected: [6]. I don't see what has changed since then. If someone adds me as admin to the german wiki or changes the protection settings, I can update de:Arch Install Scripts as required. -- Alad (talk) 18:13, 6 February 2018 (UTC)
I see, I didn't remember that discussion so I've reverted the change, hopefully you'll make it to update the translation, let's leave this open until the problem is solved, otherwise this kind of suggestion will keep appearing recurrently. -- Kynikos (talk) 17:53, 7 February 2018 (UTC)

Network configuration

dhcpcd for installed environment

How about we add a sentence to Installation_guide#Network_configuration describing how to restore use of dhcpcd as done on the installation medium? That way if the connection already worked on installation people only need a brief look at dhcpcd. -- Alad (talk) 15:48, 27 May 2018 (UTC)

I think that would just hide the possibility of choice from users. Maybe just say that dhcpcd is not enabled on the installed system without recommending anything. -- Lahwaacz (talk) 17:34, 27 May 2018 (UTC)

Why should a static IP be preferred over 127.0.1.1 in /etc/hosts?

"If the system has a permanent IP address, it should be used instead of 127.0.1.1."

I think the ArchWiki should not just say do X but also why. Alad as you added this, perhaps you can explain?--Larivact (talk) 15:14, 21 May 2018 (UTC)

In Network_configuration#Local hostname resolution: "For a system with a permanent IP address, that permanent IP address should be used instead of 127.0.1.1." -- Lahwaacz (talk) 06:48, 22 May 2018 (UTC)
First appearance in our wiki, cited source, also discussion. -- Kynikos (talk) 10:26, 22 May 2018 (UTC)

Network Configuration -- WiFi discussion

I'm starting a new thread seeing as the last one took a different direction and never really got resolved.


As it stands, the current instructions for the installation guide make it challenging for users who need to connect to the internet via a Wireless connection rather than wired. The Installation_guide#Connect_to_the_Internet section essentially assumes the users are using a wired connection, and to test it with a ping. Otherwise, they are directed to the Network_configuration page. Unfortunately, that page does not provide clear instructions for new users (or even those who just want to do a quick connection) to establish a connection via wireless. Equally so, should users find their way to the Wireless_network_configuration page, there is some digging to do there in order to find instructions to setup a connection. These are currently using the iw command, which may prove to be challenging to some. I see a few different possible solutions to improve the user experience:

  • Add explicit instructions to the installation guide
    • This is not ideal, as it adds another place to maintain likely duplicate information
  • Add a reference to the Wireless_network_configuration page
    • This is better, though the page would likely need a new section, or some tweaking to allow users to more easily find the information they need to get setup
  • Add new/better instructions to the Network_configuration page
    • This may also prove to be tricky, seeing as that page is already fairly monolithic, and focuses mostly on wired connections

One other consideration (of which I also don't see any progress) is the discussions revolving around moving and breaking down the Network Configuration guides, to separate Wired and Wireless content. With this move I could see such instructions being provided there. In any case, the guide should provide instructions that are:

  • Easy to follow, particularly for new users
  • Puts no emphasis on persisting configurations, as this is not applicable during the install phase
  • Offers options (choice is King)

--CubeTheThird (talk) 23:47, 26 August 2018 (UTC)

The Wireless network configuration link was removed because it cannot be used independently of Network configuration. I propose the following:
  1. Implement Talk:Network configuration#Moving Ethernet-specific sections to Wired subpage. Network configuration currently isn't straightforward. The actual setup instructions are hidden in the Network management section and it's confusing that wireless has a subpage but wired and medium-agnostic configuration are mixed together. See my demo.
  2. Have the Connect to the Internet section only link Network configuration and move the dhcpcd udev rule note there.
  3. Move Wireless network configuration to Network configuration/Wireless and move its iw section to a dedicated article because since recently we also have iwd.
The result should be more user-friendly without duplicating content.
--Larivact (talk) 07:13, 27 August 2018 (UTC)
As for your demo, note that in Talk:Network_configuration#Ongoing_rewrite, Alad said: "ping is one of the very first commands a new user has to run on installation to verify the availability of an internet connection". So unless you intend to direct users from the installation guide directly to the Network configuration#Troubleshooting section, there is still some more thinking to be done... -- Lahwaacz (talk) 07:21, 28 August 2018 (UTC)
Well then let's keep Connect to the Internet and revise it:

The installation image has a udev rule that enables the dhcpcd service for Ethernet network interfaces on boot. If you use Ethernet, verify the connection with ping:

# ping archlinux.org

If the ping fails see Network configuration#Troubleshooting. If you want to use Wi-Fi or a static IP address, stop the dhcpcd service with systemctl stop dhcpcd@interface where the interface name can be tab-completed and proceed with Network configuration.

--Larivact (talk) 08:41, 28 August 2018 (UTC)
That looks good to me. -- Lahwaacz (talk) 14:57, 28 August 2018 (UTC)

fstab

The section about generating the fstab with genfstab mentions -U and -L options but not the possibility to use GPT identifiers PARTUUID and PARTLABEL with the '-t' option. Those are described in Persistent block device naming and are a better choice for some users. genfstab itself doesn't explicitly list the GPT options either so IMHO it would be helpful to add this info here.

—This unsigned comment is by Grmat (talk) 15:12, 9 October 2018‎. Please sign your posts with ~~~~!

In that case you should open a bug / file a patch such that genfstab does list these options. The wiki shouldn't make up for missing basic documentation in distribution tools. -- Alad (talk) 17:49, 13 March 2019 (UTC)

Wording in example layout table and size of EFI partition

Wording in example layout table

Regarding Installation_guide#Example_layouts:

even if many users will understand remainder of the device as what is left after size of /dev/sdx1 and /dev/sdx3 are subtsructed from the size of the device, I think the order of the table might be confusing for some. Some people might set /dev/sdx2 to the size of the device minus size of /dev/sdx1, and then stumbled at where from 512 MiB, or larger, are to be found for /dev/sdx3. Either suggest the swap space as /dev/sdx2 and / as /dev/sdx3, or better explain the meaning of the remainder of the device for sdx2. Regid (talk) 14:05, 29 December 2018 (UTC)

Using /dev/sdx2 for swap is questionable, it doesn't emphasize that swap is optional nor is it consistent with other articles like dm-crypt/Encrypting an entire system. If you have some better explanation for "remainder of the device" feel free to propose it. -- Alad (talk) 08:55, 30 December 2018 (UTC)
I was trying to say that a user that patitions his HD by following the table might do the following: look at first row in the table, and creates the EFI partition. Than continue with the 2nd row. So he creates a partition at the remainder of his HD. Now he comes to the 3rd row: where will he get 512 MiB, or larger? As for dm-crypt/Encrypting an entire system, I might be wrong thinking that each partition is considered a separate device, so it doesn't matter if the swap space is before, or after, the / partition. Regid (talk) 12:41, 30 December 2018 (UTC)
Perhaps call it "Principal part of the device" instead. NB the term "remainder of the device" is often used for a separate /home in other articles. --Indigo (talk) 21:33, 3 February 2019 (UTC)

Size of EFI partition

Moved to Talk:EFI system partition#Size_of_EFI_partition. -- Alad (talk) 17:40, 13 March 2019 (UTC)

Boot loader installation

Installation guide#Boot loader doesn't say to install a boot loader, it only refers to a list of them. How about adding something like "Choose and install at least one boot loader."? -- nl6720 (talk) 19:46, 14 March 2019 (UTC)

At least one? -- Alad (talk) 21:09, 14 March 2019 (UTC)
Might not be the most common scenario, but it's possible to use one boot loader for BIOS booting and another for UEFI booting. E.g. rEFInd for UEFI booting + Syslinux for BIOS booting. If that use case is too uncommon to be mentioned then just add "Choose and install a boot loader.". -- nl6720 (talk) 21:31, 14 March 2019 (UTC)

Boot loader options

Is it worth saying that without systemd-sysvcompat, you need to add the init=/lib/systemd/systemd kernel parameter?

I got a bad surprise when I uninstalled the thing. – flying sheep 08:05, 18 April 2019 (UTC)

That is not something that belongs in the Installation guide. The init= parameter is documented in Kernel parameters#Parameter list and its description hints at the consequences of uninstalling systemd-sysvcompat.
What made you decide to uninstall systemd-sysvcompat? -- nl6720 (talk) 10:37, 18 April 2019 (UTC)

Verify signature -- alternative keyserver

It seems pgp.mit.edu has been down for weeks.

Given that GnuPG has setup its keyserver keys.gnupg.net, perhaps we could add it as an alternative?

Despite currently it uses a self signed certificate, which limits TLS.

LuxD3si9n (talk) 18:33, 26 March 2019 (UTC)

I don't know even know why we add a specific keyserver to that line... how to deal with keyservers is described in GnuPG#Use_a_keyserver already. [7] -- Alad (talk) 00:23, 27 March 2019 (UTC)

Confusing partition numbers

The partition numbers on this page are confusing. The table calls the root partition /dev/sdX2, while the text below calls it /dev/sdX1. It should be matched for consistency. Sabinscabin (talk) 20:29, 13 April 2019 (UTC)