Difference between revisions of "Talk:NetworkManager"

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(DHCP service is enabled by default: re, closing)
(Mention that dhcpcd is a conflicting networking service?: new section)
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:That said, I'm closing this discussion. Please keep the note brief.
 
:That said, I'm closing this discussion. Please keep the note brief.
 
:-- [[User:Lahwaacz|Lahwaacz]] ([[User talk:Lahwaacz|talk]]) 20:49, 31 January 2014 (UTC)
 
:-- [[User:Lahwaacz|Lahwaacz]] ([[User talk:Lahwaacz|talk]]) 20:49, 31 January 2014 (UTC)
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== Mention that dhcpcd is a conflicting networking service? ==
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This is related to the discussion below. The note at the beginning says that conflicting network configuration services should be disabled. I did not know the dhcpcd@.services are such services. It would have saved me a lot of time and frustration if this had been mentioned. [[User:Pelzflorian|Pelzflorian]] ([[User talk:Pelzflorian|talk]]) 16:26, 14 March 2014 (UTC)

Revision as of 16:26, 14 March 2014

GNOME 3 and nm-applet

Looks like GNOME 3 doesn't need nm-applet any more. Moreover, it competes with the shell's network agent for new connections. Does anyone copy this? Should this be mentioned on the page?

DHCP service is enabled by default

https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Installation_Guide#Connect_to_the_internet

Wiki quote: "Connect to the internet A DHCP service is already enabled for all available devices."

DHCP IS ENABLED BY DEFAULT according to this, is it not true?

Why do you Scimmia and Lahwaacz insist on NOT allowing some detailed clarity on this issue? I was given the excuse, oh we can't have systemctl commands here, they belong in systemctl section of wiki. WTF I call bullshit on this ... look at all the other wiki subjects that contain the required systemctl commands!

I see more than one attempt to clarify "fix" this issue have been deleted by you, and your insistence that the "note" completely covers it. Now you've made it worse by removing the note from configure section and placing it in the install area!

This needs to be in the beginning of the configure section:

You must stop and disable the following service before NM will work :

  1. systemctl stop dhcpcd.service
  2. systemctl disable dhcpcd.service

Then the note:

Note: It may be a good idea to use systemctl --type=service to ensure that no other service is running that may want to configure the network. Multiple networking services will conflict.

Then why not explain what to look for with this command specifically? Why not mention stop and disable it with the above commands?

How could this so hard for such intelligent people to understand? Do you have some other motivation to not include it?

Hi, first of all I'd like to ask you to please write in a more relaxed tone, nobody here edits the articles just to annoy people. Also, please sign your edits in talk pages as explained in Help:Discussion.
Now, on to the topic, we have several style rules on this wiki, and in particular Help:Style#Daemon operations recommends to link to systemd instead of always explaining how to start/enable/stop services, so that's why those instructions have been correctly removed. I'm perfectly aware that there are still many articles giving examples of simple systemctl commands, and it's those that would need to conform to the style guide, not this article to them.
I've updated the note and made it clearer also for people coming from the installation guides, please have a look. I think such note is more visible in the Installation section rather than in Configuration.
-- Kynikos (talk) 02:36, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
The problem now is that the note is wrong. Only those people that specifically enabled it need to disable it, and it's never even mentioned in the Installation Guide
Scimmia (talk) 10:24, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
Uh I assumed he was trying to use networkmanager in the live system for particular reasons. You're right, the last part of the note I've written is indeed confusing, I've just removed it. -- Kynikos (talk) 10:51, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
The dhcpcd service is not enabled by default on the installed system. The link you gave says that it's enabled by default on the live install system, nothing more. If it's enabled on the installed system, YOU did it. Stop blaming others for your own shortcomings.
Scimmia (talk) 10:16, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
I migrated from Slax to Arch years ago and mindlessly enabled the dhcpcd daemon because, well, I needed to. I installed NM recently and after all this time, I entirely forgot dhcpcd wasn't initially enabled by default. In fact in my ignorance, it's the last thing I would've thought to disable. I thought that NM would somehow negotiate a DHCP lease through the service itself. Of course dhcpcd hogs the interfaces and so on, which I know now. While I acknowledge only some people need to disable dhcpcd, I do not think it is up to them to remember, potentially years later, that they enabled such an apparantly-standard service themselves. Cheers Phillid (talk) 21:31, 30 January 2014 (UTC)
I disagree, it is up to you to know what is running on your system, nobody else can tell you that. There is already a note that says you need to disable all other services that try to configure the network, and that note even gives you a way to check what is running in case you forgot like you mentioned. Do you want to list each and every example of services that need to be disabled? All of the versions of netctl, all of the versions of netcfg, connman, wicd, dhclient, etc. If you're going to list one, you should list them all.
And years ago? We're talking about systemd services, just how many years have you been running systemd on the system in question?
Scimmia (talk) 05:40, 31 January 2014 (UTC)
That's actually a fair point - systemd's only been default for two or three years now, right? This goes to prove how bad some Arch users' memories are! :-) It is up to me, but I believe that a few reminders would've educated me before I went on a massive web search bender. Like I said, I knew dhcpcd.service was running. What I didn't know is that it hogs the interfaces. In my ignorant eyes, it was a service more core to the system, and I'd have thought NetworkManager would plug into dhcpcd.service for all its dhcp needs. Little did I know, I was wrong.
What great harm does it cause to have a twenty word reminer about the most common services; dhcpcd, netcfg and netctl or whatever. Do you honestly and truly believe that it detracts more value than it gives to the article?
Phillid (talk) 10:30, 31 January 2014 (UTC)
systemd has been the default for 15 months, it's only been in the repos for 2 years.
Like I said, if you want to add one thing, you should add them all and god help you if you miss one because some clueless user will start crying that theirs wasn't listed and it took them HOURS with google to figure it out. In short, yes, I believe it is better to give the tools to figure it out rather than listing exactly what needs to be done command by command.
Scimmia (talk) 17:08, 31 January 2014 (UTC)
I should probably point out that the note originates from the netctl article, I've copied it from there. The true origin is in this forum thread, it is quite similar to this discussion...
It is a fact that all Arch users should be able to deal with problems using some web search engine and that they are responsible for what software they install and which services they enable. There are obviously many different combinations of what can go wrong and it is simply not possible to be this verbose. ArchWiki has provided you a hint, it is up to you if you ignore it or think and check if it is applicable to you.
That said, I'm closing this discussion. Please keep the note brief.
-- Lahwaacz (talk) 20:49, 31 January 2014 (UTC)

Mention that dhcpcd is a conflicting networking service?

This is related to the discussion below. The note at the beginning says that conflicting network configuration services should be disabled. I did not know the dhcpcd@.services are such services. It would have saved me a lot of time and frustration if this had been mentioned. Pelzflorian (talk) 16:26, 14 March 2014 (UTC)