Difference between revisions of "Talk:Network configuration"

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(Need to replace this part about IP address aliasing with netctl: new section)
(Ongoing rewrite: re)
 
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== Need to replace this part about IP address aliasing with netctl ==
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== Wired network configuration ==
  
Configuration presented here isn't working.
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The introduction states:
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:"This page explains how to set up a wired connection to a network. If you need to set up wireless networking see the Wireless network configuration page."
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So, should this page be renamed to '''Wired network configuration'' ? Though in an ideal world, both Wired and Wireless configuration pages would be merged to reduce duplication, and move subtopics such as Troubleshooting to subpages ... -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 14:39, 29 September 2015 (UTC)
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:I don't really mind the current state, i.e. [[Wireless network configuration]] building on top of [[Network configuration]] (with a small overlap in [[Wireless_network_configuration#Check_the_driver_status]]). Otherwise there would have to be a "Network configuration" page and "Wired" and "Wireless" subpages, but what content from the current [[Network configuration]] is specific to wired connections? I think only [[Network_configuration#Device_Driver]] (which is easy to generalize) and [[Network_configuration#Troubleshooting]]. On the other hand most of the content in [[Wireless network configuration]] is unique to wireless devices, so IMO it is more natural to have just 2 pages instead of 3. Maybe the introduction should be modified instead? -- [[User:Lahwaacz|Lahwaacz]] ([[User talk:Lahwaacz|talk]]) 16:30, 29 September 2015 (UTC)
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::If we keep two pages, perhaps we should move [[Wireless network configuration]] to [[Network configuration/Wireless]], in addition to rewording the introduction? -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 01:36, 29 August 2016 (UTC)
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:::It might be argued that pages like [[dhcpcd]], [[Internet sharing]], [[Network bridge]] or [[MAC address spoofing]] could be all subpages of [[Network configuration]], just like [[Wireless network configuration]], and that's why they are all in [[:Category:Networking]] already. That's exactly the problem Wikipedia decided to solve by not using subpages for categorization, which I think makes sense here. -- [[User:Lahwaacz|Lahwaacz]] ([[User talk:Lahwaacz|talk]]) 07:28, 30 August 2016 (UTC)
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== Device names ==
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I've updated the section to also introduce users to {{man|5|systemd.link}}. Should we switch the whole section to prefer the systemd mechanism over udev? I'd vote in favor of systemd, since I believe systemd.links will instruct udev and not the other way round. I also find the link files easier to read and understand.
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We could keep the udev rules as a side note, but I'd rather remove them [[User:-1|-1]] ([[User talk:-1|talk]]) 21:38, 8 March 2017 (UTC)
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:At least a note that udev processes the result of the link files should be kept. I'd also keep udev in [[Network_configuration#Reverting_to_traditional_device_names]] because {{ic|99-default.link}} contains more than just the way interface names are set up. Maybe {{ic|99-default.link}} it is not the best idea, it should be possible to override just the {{ic|NamePolicy}}. -- [[User:Lahwaacz|Lahwaacz]] ([[User talk:Lahwaacz|talk]]) 21:51, 8 March 2017 (UTC)
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::Thank you. I'll just quickly read up on how the mechanism works exactly. I shall retain some information on udev as an alternative and remove overlaps. [[User:-1|-1]] ([[User talk:-1|talk]]) 22:05, 8 March 2017 (UTC)
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:::I'm sorry to say, but the rabbit hole got too deep and I sadly don't have the time to research this properly. I reverted the changes to the device name section since I don't want to leave the section in this unpolished state. I'd be happy if anyone wants to pick it up again: have a look at [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Network_configuration&type=revision&diff=470305&oldid=470152 this diff]. [[User:-1|-1]] ([[User talk:-1|talk]]) 13:14, 10 March 2017 (UTC)
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== dhcpcd static profile expansion ==
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In reference to the flag for expansion mentioning that the dhcpcd static profile is gone - it is now linked with the other network managers in the table. Static IP addresses can be assigned with all of the listed network managers, so I don't think we should list dhcpcd here as a special case.  -- [[User:Rdeckard|Rdeckard]] ([[User_talk:Rdeckard|talk]]) 15:39, 14 April 2017 (UTC)
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:Indeed, I missed that the table contains something else from the [[Network manager]] list. On second thought, maybe dhcpcd should be added there as well. -- [[User:Lahwaacz|Lahwaacz]] ([[User talk:Lahwaacz|talk]]) 20:53, 14 April 2017 (UTC)
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==Realtek RTL8111/8168B==
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The chipset version affected are shown as:
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Ethernet controller: Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd. RTL8111/8168/8411 PCI Express Gigabit Ethernet Controller (rev 06)
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Upon installation, the network would work sporadically and was not the result of misconfigured DNS. The issue is a hardware issue. The 8169 driver will work, but requires setting the kernel parameter iommu=soft on various AMD FX cpus.
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[[User:Drankinatty|David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. -- Rankin Law Firm, PLLC]] ([[User talk:Drankinatty|talk]]) 22:40, 22 January 2018 (UTC)
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:See [[Network_configuration#Gigabyte_Motherboard_with_Realtek_8111.2F8168.2F8411]]. -- [[User:Lahwaacz|Lahwaacz]] ([[User talk:Lahwaacz|talk]]) 22:50, 22 January 2018 (UTC)
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::Shall we cleanup these 2 sections and merge them into one? Isn't it observed only on AMD systems, I have this exact revision 06 with an intel based MB and I have not noticed issues. -- [[User:Kewl|Kewl]] ([[User talk:Kewl|talk]]) 12:12, 17 March 2018 (UTC)
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== Ongoing rewrite ==
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I look at this page and see it has almost been completely rewritten without [[ArchWiki:Contributing#Announce_article_rewrites_in_a_talk_page|prior announcement]]. In the process, significant parts of the content have been removed (like most of the ''ping'' section) and some odd conventions like a full summary in the article introduction were added. Other things at a brief glance are the network manager table which was moved to a separate article that has otherwise no content. (Really?)
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I'm tempted to revert the whole thing unless someone actually starts discussing these changes and restore content that was removed for no reason. -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 21:34, 18 May 2018 (UTC)
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:I am also puzzled by the full revamp, there may be some interesting developments but some others should be discussed. The [[Installation guide]] directly refers to the page, it is therefore quite a sensitive and fundamental one. --- [[User:Kewl|Kewl]] ([[User talk:Kewl|talk]]) 03:54, 19 May 2018 (UTC)
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:I apologize for my lack of announcement. Regarding your remarks on the intro summary and network manager table, I agree and thus split the intro into ''Setup'' and ''Check the connection'' and re-merged [[Network manager]]. I also restored some details. Your allegations that I removed content without reasoning are however false. Whenever I remove something I explain why in the edit summary. [[Special:Diff/515809]], [[Special:Diff/520516]]. The ''Check the connection'' section is now way more thorough than before. I removed the ping examples, an explanation of the {{ic|Control-C}} command-line fundamental (should be explained elsewhere) and the explanation of the {{ic|-c}} flag (not remarkable).
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:Explanation of [[Special:Diff/513843/cur|my changes]]: I changed [[Network configuration]] to be about general network configuration as opposed to wired network configuration, because [[Wireless network configuration]] duplicated parts of [[Network configuration]], in particular I merged both network manager tables into one[https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Wireless_network_configuration&oldid=519817#Automatic_setup], reducing duplication and providing a better overview. I generally revamped the ''Network management'' section, splitting up the {{ic|ip address}} and {{ic|ip route}} commands, listing more commands, linking related Wikipedia articles, briefly explaining networking fundamentals like the routing table & the default gateway. I also corrected some terminology (CIDR is not a subnet mask notation, the part after the slash is not the subnet_mask but the prefix_len) and improved a command (automatically broadcast address from the subnet mask). I created the ''DHCP'' section as contrary what the page previously implied [[dhcpcd]] is not a network manager.
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:--[[User:Larivact|Larivact]] ([[User talk:Larivact|talk]]) 06:31, 19 May 2018 (UTC)
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::While I agree on reducing duplication (see [[#Wired network configuration]]), ''ping'' is one of the very first commands a new user has to run on installation to verify the availability of an internet connection. That means a worked example is hardly unnecessary. -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 14:39, 19 May 2018 (UTC)
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::Also please take some care when changing section names. Right now the installation guide has invalid links to this article because of the recent changes. edit: which seems fixed again -- [[User:Alad|Alad]] ([[User talk:Alad|talk]]) 15:52, 19 May 2018 (UTC)
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::I have better things to do than a full review of this, but what strikes me is that both [[Network configuration#Setup]] and [[Network configuration#Check the connection]] are basically just lists of forward references to other sections of the page and introducing ''ping'' in the middle of the page is pretty much useless. Not that the original layout was the best, but it was obvious where to start even without the setup section because the first section started with "The basic installation procedure typically has a functional network configuration. Use {{man|8|ping}} to check the connection: ..." It was also pretty clear that the backbone of the page was the "Network management" section. The "Setup" section is basically an overview of "Network management" so why is it three sections above? -- [[User:Lahwaacz|Lahwaacz]] ([[User talk:Lahwaacz|talk]]) 20:45, 22 May 2018 (UTC)
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:::Good point. I moved those sections as you suggested.--[[User:Larivact|Larivact]] ([[User talk:Larivact|talk]]) 04:09, 23 May 2018 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 04:09, 23 May 2018

Wired network configuration

The introduction states:

"This page explains how to set up a wired connection to a network. If you need to set up wireless networking see the Wireless network configuration page."

So, should this page be renamed to 'Wired network configuration ? Though in an ideal world, both Wired and Wireless configuration pages would be merged to reduce duplication, and move subtopics such as Troubleshooting to subpages ... -- Alad (talk) 14:39, 29 September 2015 (UTC)

I don't really mind the current state, i.e. Wireless network configuration building on top of Network configuration (with a small overlap in Wireless_network_configuration#Check_the_driver_status). Otherwise there would have to be a "Network configuration" page and "Wired" and "Wireless" subpages, but what content from the current Network configuration is specific to wired connections? I think only Network_configuration#Device_Driver (which is easy to generalize) and Network_configuration#Troubleshooting. On the other hand most of the content in Wireless network configuration is unique to wireless devices, so IMO it is more natural to have just 2 pages instead of 3. Maybe the introduction should be modified instead? -- Lahwaacz (talk) 16:30, 29 September 2015 (UTC)
If we keep two pages, perhaps we should move Wireless network configuration to Network configuration/Wireless, in addition to rewording the introduction? -- Alad (talk) 01:36, 29 August 2016 (UTC)
It might be argued that pages like dhcpcd, Internet sharing, Network bridge or MAC address spoofing could be all subpages of Network configuration, just like Wireless network configuration, and that's why they are all in Category:Networking already. That's exactly the problem Wikipedia decided to solve by not using subpages for categorization, which I think makes sense here. -- Lahwaacz (talk) 07:28, 30 August 2016 (UTC)

Device names

I've updated the section to also introduce users to systemd.link(5). Should we switch the whole section to prefer the systemd mechanism over udev? I'd vote in favor of systemd, since I believe systemd.links will instruct udev and not the other way round. I also find the link files easier to read and understand. We could keep the udev rules as a side note, but I'd rather remove them -1 (talk) 21:38, 8 March 2017 (UTC)

At least a note that udev processes the result of the link files should be kept. I'd also keep udev in Network_configuration#Reverting_to_traditional_device_names because 99-default.link contains more than just the way interface names are set up. Maybe 99-default.link it is not the best idea, it should be possible to override just the NamePolicy. -- Lahwaacz (talk) 21:51, 8 March 2017 (UTC)
Thank you. I'll just quickly read up on how the mechanism works exactly. I shall retain some information on udev as an alternative and remove overlaps. -1 (talk) 22:05, 8 March 2017 (UTC)
I'm sorry to say, but the rabbit hole got too deep and I sadly don't have the time to research this properly. I reverted the changes to the device name section since I don't want to leave the section in this unpolished state. I'd be happy if anyone wants to pick it up again: have a look at this diff. -1 (talk) 13:14, 10 March 2017 (UTC)

dhcpcd static profile expansion

In reference to the flag for expansion mentioning that the dhcpcd static profile is gone - it is now linked with the other network managers in the table. Static IP addresses can be assigned with all of the listed network managers, so I don't think we should list dhcpcd here as a special case. -- Rdeckard (talk) 15:39, 14 April 2017 (UTC)

Indeed, I missed that the table contains something else from the Network manager list. On second thought, maybe dhcpcd should be added there as well. -- Lahwaacz (talk) 20:53, 14 April 2017 (UTC)

Realtek RTL8111/8168B

The chipset version affected are shown as:

Ethernet controller: Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd. RTL8111/8168/8411 PCI Express Gigabit Ethernet Controller (rev 06)

Upon installation, the network would work sporadically and was not the result of misconfigured DNS. The issue is a hardware issue. The 8169 driver will work, but requires setting the kernel parameter iommu=soft on various AMD FX cpus.

David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. -- Rankin Law Firm, PLLC (talk) 22:40, 22 January 2018 (UTC)

See Network_configuration#Gigabyte_Motherboard_with_Realtek_8111.2F8168.2F8411. -- Lahwaacz (talk) 22:50, 22 January 2018 (UTC)
Shall we cleanup these 2 sections and merge them into one? Isn't it observed only on AMD systems, I have this exact revision 06 with an intel based MB and I have not noticed issues. -- Kewl (talk) 12:12, 17 March 2018 (UTC)

Ongoing rewrite

I look at this page and see it has almost been completely rewritten without prior announcement. In the process, significant parts of the content have been removed (like most of the ping section) and some odd conventions like a full summary in the article introduction were added. Other things at a brief glance are the network manager table which was moved to a separate article that has otherwise no content. (Really?)

I'm tempted to revert the whole thing unless someone actually starts discussing these changes and restore content that was removed for no reason. -- Alad (talk) 21:34, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

I am also puzzled by the full revamp, there may be some interesting developments but some others should be discussed. The Installation guide directly refers to the page, it is therefore quite a sensitive and fundamental one. --- Kewl (talk) 03:54, 19 May 2018 (UTC)
I apologize for my lack of announcement. Regarding your remarks on the intro summary and network manager table, I agree and thus split the intro into Setup and Check the connection and re-merged Network manager. I also restored some details. Your allegations that I removed content without reasoning are however false. Whenever I remove something I explain why in the edit summary. Special:Diff/515809, Special:Diff/520516. The Check the connection section is now way more thorough than before. I removed the ping examples, an explanation of the Control-C command-line fundamental (should be explained elsewhere) and the explanation of the -c flag (not remarkable).
Explanation of my changes: I changed Network configuration to be about general network configuration as opposed to wired network configuration, because Wireless network configuration duplicated parts of Network configuration, in particular I merged both network manager tables into one[1], reducing duplication and providing a better overview. I generally revamped the Network management section, splitting up the ip address and ip route commands, listing more commands, linking related Wikipedia articles, briefly explaining networking fundamentals like the routing table & the default gateway. I also corrected some terminology (CIDR is not a subnet mask notation, the part after the slash is not the subnet_mask but the prefix_len) and improved a command (automatically broadcast address from the subnet mask). I created the DHCP section as contrary what the page previously implied dhcpcd is not a network manager.
--Larivact (talk) 06:31, 19 May 2018 (UTC)
While I agree on reducing duplication (see #Wired network configuration), ping is one of the very first commands a new user has to run on installation to verify the availability of an internet connection. That means a worked example is hardly unnecessary. -- Alad (talk) 14:39, 19 May 2018 (UTC)
Also please take some care when changing section names. Right now the installation guide has invalid links to this article because of the recent changes. edit: which seems fixed again -- Alad (talk) 15:52, 19 May 2018 (UTC)
I have better things to do than a full review of this, but what strikes me is that both Network configuration#Setup and Network configuration#Check the connection are basically just lists of forward references to other sections of the page and introducing ping in the middle of the page is pretty much useless. Not that the original layout was the best, but it was obvious where to start even without the setup section because the first section started with "The basic installation procedure typically has a functional network configuration. Use ping(8) to check the connection: ..." It was also pretty clear that the backbone of the page was the "Network management" section. The "Setup" section is basically an overview of "Network management" so why is it three sections above? -- Lahwaacz (talk) 20:45, 22 May 2018 (UTC)
Good point. I moved those sections as you suggested.--Larivact (talk) 04:09, 23 May 2018 (UTC)