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openrc-sysvinitAUR for some reason - it doesn't include all binaries - depends on sysvinitAUR, so the mentioned compability to systemd-sysvcompat is not present. -- Alad (talk) 13:03, 2 August 2015 (UTC)

Adding artoo's method back to the page

Due to artoo's way having been removed here and artoo's packages in the AUR being gone (and artoo himself not being around anymore), was created. It now has more information about OpenRC on Arch Linux than this Wiki.

I have tried to merge previous information available about using OpenRC in this page with new information about artoo's method and with the current page here. What can I improve? The changes are considerable, should I nonetheless replace the contents of the current page with those of my sandbox? Any opinion would be appreciated. JMCF125 (talk) 16:34, 13 February 2016 (UTC)

You're of course free to create an adaptation on your user page, but info on the artoo "method" is unlikely to be merged back to the OpenRC article. (original discussion: [1])
It has no AUR PKGBUILDs available since the author decided it was Manjaro-only [2] (which makes it unsuitable to document here in the first place), so the only source is some random, hopefully Arch-adapted, user repository. The respective "instructions" on still have the same issues as a year ago [3] [4] [5] when it was created - not to mention the inflammatory language and widespread FUD on that website.
Anyway, not trying to discourage your efforts, just pointing out what to expect. Cheers -- Alad (talk) 16:30, 13 February 2016 (UTC)
I did read the original discussion, in fact this prompted me to intervene in a discussion in the mailing lists [6] that was going nowhere.
Artoo no longer supports packages on the AUR, but unnoficial repos, which are more or less as trustworthy, are available. With 4 mirrors, which is uncommon and comes to show the use case for this method.
The "inflammatory language and widespread FUD" are part of the reason why there should be a Wiki article here, with a NPOV. The instructions here would also be structured differently. I haven't followed the instructions there myself because I had OpenRC artoo's way before that appeared. I've read those links you refer to; perhaps I should remove the references or just put one in the end? The packages provided are the same artoo provided himself through the AUR, instructions in that website are not mandatory, nor the only way, nor arguably the best way.
Should the "FUD" really stop us from adding crucial information to this page? The method I'd like to add back is well-supported and documented. I'm sure we can find a way of placing it here. JMCF125 (talk) 17:43, 13 February 2016 (UTC)
I still don't see how anything has changed from last year. It remains a poor adaptation of the original openrcAUR package, aimed at Manjaro, and with user repositories that break on a regular basis. See [7] [8] for more recent examples. As to "choice", see Talk:Arch Linux#Arch Linux is about choice. -- Alad (talk) 17:55, 13 February 2016 (UTC)
Aren't AUR packages breaking all the time as well? I've had far more problems with many packages in the AUR than with OpenRC. In the first link, it was seemingly a SourceForge problem, which was minor and not existant on other mirrors. The second was dbus's fault. Both were gone very quickly. Problems with apg's way don't go away so quickly, it all takes longer in the AUR. About choice, it's just that an agreement between artoo and apg hasn't been reached, so there are 2 ways of doing things. If this repository was so unstable, Manjaro wouldn't use packages from the same place this repository does. I remember a user with the quote "It's bleeding-edge, not bleeding-flat. Bring your own parachute.". JMCF125 (talk) 18:12, 13 February 2016 (UTC)
No, in this case they are not, since the AUR approach doesn't require replacing half your system with user packages (eudev, *-nosystemd, etc). And if, you go look at the discussion above, apg fixed an issue with the SSH service within hours of being notified.
Regarding the (non)merits of the artoo way, all this has already been discussed in the links above.
Regarding Manjaro, I'm not interested in what they do or do not do, as it's irrelevant to Arch. What is relevant is how it impacts Arch users.
Closing this as it turned to just another bikeshed. -- Alad (talk) 18:22, 13 February 2016 (UTC)
For the record, I'd have no issue linking instructions to use an alternative method, however the "artoo" maintainers have shown zero interest in addressing raised concerns with both their repository, and their instructions on how to use it. So, solve that, and we can talk again. -- Alad (talk) 20:02, 13 February 2016 (UTC)
The thing is, the maintainers and their quirks aside, the loss is to the users. The instructions would be rewritten. Could you list the issues with the repository please? Just to have them pinned down here for reference, instead of dispersed across links. Also, what would you think about creating a new page (such as "OpenRC (eudev)") following this suggestion? JMCF125 (talk) 20:47, 13 February 2016 (UTC)
I'll create a list later today. I'm not sure on creating OpenRC/eudev; I'll wait on how the situation improves first. A separate page is better than switching topics all the time, but ideally, the bundled repository instructions would be good enough to be linked to from here or eudev. -- Alad (talk) 12:06, 14 February 2016 (UTC)
+1 for a seperate OpenRC/eudev page. --Fengchao (talk) 08:38, 7 April 2016 (UTC)
I completely forgot about this. Before having a subpage or even link, the following points have to be improved upon:
  • Gradual instructions on using the repository instructions, instead of one big leap which replaces all major system components. [9] While this could be documented on a separate page, if the maintainers fundamentally disagree with this approach there is little point in doing so.
  • By consequence, draw a strict line between init components and other packages in the repository, for example through package groups. Also simple solutions like libsystemd-standaloneAUR should be prefered instead of recompiling "nosystemd" packages, to reduce user issues.
  • The PKGBUILDs must be aimed at Arch, not a derivate like Manjaro. This includes following the Arch Packaging Standards as described in [10].
-- Alad (talk) 13:24, 7 April 2016 (UTC)
So, on the one hand I'm called a "FUD spreading wiki admin" [11], on the other hand said "FUD" is being implemented by those who maintain the source packages. [12]
Since latter is more important than an angry kid with a user repo, feel free to propose an updated draft if there's still interest. -- Alad (talk) 12:12, 1 July 2016 (UTC)
For user perspective, there is always good thing to have a wiki page. I installed artoo way with old wiki and now there is only the bbs for supporting my troubles.
On the other hand, I think that the problem is lack of maintainers in archlinux. My systems boots with "Manjaro Linux". This trivial problem could be avoid if we have maintainer (not manjaro ones). And with maintainers we could assure that all we publish in the wiki is *true*--Xan (talk) 12:14, 14 February 2016 (UTC)
Maybe I understood your comment wrong, but to remind that BBS is not intended for Manjaro support: Forum_etiquette#Arch_Linux_distribution_support_ONLY
As to the lack of maintainers, a good way to improve maintenance is by reducing the scope of what you want to maintain. That includes a chosen set of instructions, and replacing system packages only where necessary. -- Alad (talk) 12:18, 14 February 2016 (UTC)
Yes, you understand wrongly. In openrc package 0.20.4-1, there is a "Manjaro Linux" title instead of "Arch Linux". Solved in 0.20.4-2,--Xan (talk) 16:55, 15 February 2016 (UTC)


Is there any bbs section, mailing list, etc. in which users could hear about news in openrc in archlinux? For example announcements of obsolete packages? Thanks I'm feel I'm in out of law: Arch and artoo/OpenRC. Only apg is supported. --Xan (talk) 13:38, 12 September 2016 (UTC)