Difference between revisions of "Talk:Optical disc drive"

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(How to contribute as upstream developer ?: reply)
(Merge multiple pages CD/DVD: deleted old discussion)
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The -r and -J ensures long file names work for Unix (using Rock Ridge) and Windows (using Joliet extensions) respectively.
The -r and -J ensures long file names work for Unix (using Rock Ridge) and Windows (using Joliet extensions) respectively.
==<s>Merge multiple pages CD/DVD</s>==
I've seen that there are a few Pages that describe CD / DVD burning tools. I ask myself "why?".
*[[CD Burning]]
*[[DVD Burning]]
*[[DVD Playing]]
*[[DVD Ripping]]
*[[Video2dvdiso]] one page for a single script (????)
This pages describe "how to use" the same device. Nowadays there are only devices that burning them both cd/dvd.
I think we need to merge all the pages in a single.
In this way it is easier consultation by the users, because everyone would like to know how to exploit and operate your device to play, burning and ripping cd/dvd without having to navigate through multiple pages for a single device. Also the page of 'DVD burning' are not mentioned programs to burn, rightly cited the page burinig CD ..... this indicates that do not make sense multiple page for a single device, I want to know how to use my dvd burner? I have to navigate through multiple pages, if only to know what programs to use.[[User:Veleno77|Veleno]] ([[User talk:Veleno77|talk]]) 08:18, 15 July 2013 (UTC)
:Ah well it sounds like a good plan to me :) It also sounds like a big job though: if you think you can do it, go for it! Just make sure to do many little edits (not just a few big ones) and document all of them using the edit summary. If you're not doing the merge, instead, you can request it by adding [[Template:Merge]] to those articles. -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 13:52, 16 July 2013 (UTC)
::Yes ! It's a big job! mmm I can try to do a single page in my personal page, just to example, and add a template "merge" in all pages that link in this discussion. So all users will be made aware and can participate if they want, while I begin to do a draft.[[User:Veleno77|Veleno]] ([[User talk:Veleno77|talk]]) 10:12, 17 July 2013 (UTC)
::: Well, i've created an example for this merging  in my personal page https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/User:Veleno77 . This merging consist in a few step.
:::# Create a new page with title " Optical disc drive "
:::# In this page, simply merging [[CD Burning]] , [[DVD Burning]] , [[DVD Playing]] , [[DVD Ripping]] and related troubleshooting.
:::# In the section "See also" add a link to  [[Convert any Movie to DVD Video]], because this is the real related page.
:::# The page [[Video2dvdiso]] is a page for a single script related to [[Convert any Movie to DVD Video]], and I think must be included in it.
:::Now I'm waiting for your views. [[User:Veleno77|Veleno]] ([[User talk:Veleno77|talk]]) 22:25, 17 July 2013 (UTC)
::::Good job, I like your draft, I'd just like to ask you to wait a few days before putting it into practice, let's say until this weekend, so we'll see if there are any users against the merge. That said, note the title of the page will have to be capitalized as per [[Help:Editing#Creating pages]] (I know it's a [[Help_talk:Style#Title_case|very hidden rule]]), and to make it a very good job you could try to perform the merge in multiple edits, not only a single big one, for example:
::::# Create [[Optical Disc Drive]]
::::# Merge [[CD Burning]] as it is (without changes)
::::# Adjust the section tree as in your draft
::::# Merge [[DVD Burning]] as it is (without changes)
::::# Adjust the section tree as in your draft
::::# Merge [[DVD Playing]] as it is (without changes)
::::# Adjust the section tree as in your draft
::::# Merge [[DVD Ripping]] as it is (without changes)
::::# Adjust the section tree as in your draft
::::# Merge the Troubleshooting sections
::::# Add any relevant links to the See also section
::::Then redirect the 4 merged articles to the correct sections in [[Optical Disc Drive]].
::::Finally yeah, I'd say [[Video2dvdiso]] can be merged into [[Convert any Movie to DVD Video]].
::::-- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 11:22, 18 July 2013 (UTC)
:::::Thank you for all your support and for your explanations. Unfortunately I am new to this method of "merging". I welcome all your suggestions and I hope to do things in a clear way, and not to make mistakes. I'll wait a few days and then I will get to work.[[User:Veleno77|Veleno]] ([[User talk:Veleno77|talk]]) 21:43, 18 July 2013 (UTC)
::::::OK! All the changes have been done. I did well to create redirects to the sections? Or should I point them to the main page?[[User:Veleno77|Veleno]] ([[User talk:Veleno77|talk]]) 18:14, 22 July 2013 (UTC)
:::::::Very well done, thank you!! And thanks for making it easy to check all the edits by applying the changes step by step :) Redirecting to the proper sections was indeed the right thing to do, I've just redirected here the respective talk pages too, merging all the old discussions, like this very one.
:::::::This discussion can be closed, as new comments can be added to [[#A big merge]].
:::::::-- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 13:59, 23 July 2013 (UTC)
== A big merge ==
== A big merge ==

Revision as of 10:11, 30 July 2013

Command line order

I don't know what ArchLinux is about, but this page was a very nice reference for growisofs. However, according to the man page for growisofs, all options for growisofs should come before the -[Z|M] /dev/dvd-device. The synopsis is:

growisofs [-dry-run] [-dvd-compat] [-overburn] [-speed=1] -[Z|M] /dev/dvd <mkisofs-options>

so this line:

growisofs -Z /dev/cdrw -v -l -dry-run -iso-level 3 -R -J -speed=2 -joliet-long -graft-points /Magazines/=/home/citral/books/mags/

should rather be:

growisofs -dry-run -speed=2 -Z /dev/cdrw -v -l -iso-level 3 -R -J -joliet-long -graft-points /Magazines/=/home/citral/books/mags/

since -dry-run and -speed=N are options for growisofs and not mkisofs. I'm guessing growisofs figures that out for itself though, but for the sake of consistency, I feel the order should be changed... - (Reep 15:24, 4 April 2006 (EDT))

Sounds very logical to me. Since it is your discovery, would you mind updating the page yourself? --citral 14:24, 16 July 2006 (PDT)

DVD Ripping - mplayer -dumpstream

hey, I normaly just do

mplayer -dumpstream

and write it to a .vob file.

So the actual command could look like:

mplayer dvd://1 -v -dumpstream -dumpfile film.vob

Of course I get really big files this way. (3-8 gigabyte) But I think it's definitely the best quality, isn't it? And you can easily compress the vob-file anyway later if you want to.

I don't really have much knowledge about mplayer and video in general, so I didn't just write it in the article. I only adopted it from [1] (german language)

If anyone knows a better method (for example make mplayer read the dvd more carefully, if quality matters more than time) please write.

--Advocatusdiaboli 15:40, 10 November 2009 (EST)


Maybe some of these links have useful info? [2] [3] [4]

special burning options ?

Have think about burning following CD :

-bootable CD 
-contains audio track ( for CD player ) , any position is OK

Is such CD ( technically ) possible to burn ?

Burning files/directories throught genisoimage

make the .iso file:

# genisoimage -r -J -o cd_image.iso /directory

The -r and -J ensures long file names work for Unix (using Rock Ridge) and Windows (using Joliet extensions) respectively.

A big merge

This page is the result of the merger of pages:

A one page to describe how to use an optical disc drive: CD burning; burning, ripping and playing DVD, inherent troubleshooting.

For all wiki's translators:, simple read the "history" tab for how to merge all page in your language. For more detail see https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Talk:CD_Burning Veleno (talk) 15:31, 22 July 2013 (UTC)

How to contribute as upstream developer ?

Being the developer of libburn i see that you are consolidating the knowledge about CD, DVD, and BD. Now i feel the urge to propose some corrections.

Would it be welcome if i make substantial changes, or would it be better to leave the wiki work to a person who is not involved in the competing burn software for archlinux ? (I have no experience with this wiki software. Beware.)

What i would change:

  1. Clean out burn war rethorics (mainly cdrkit vs. cdrtools)
  2. Move ISO 9660 stuff before burning stuff
  3. Add my own packages libburn, libisofs, libisoburn to the list
  4. Unify the command names used in examples
  5. Clarify some technical facts

I have a more detailed list of change proposals. 150 lines. Shall i post it here ? Scdbackup (talk) 12:48, 26 July 2013 (UTC)

Do a bit of clarity between cdrkit and cdrtools would be a pleasant thing. As well as any technical clarifications. At present I see that your packages are only used by Xfburn front-end, and from Brasero as a alternative back-end (on Arch Linux). Mainly others use a combination cdrkit/dvd+rw-tools. I'm ignorant on the subject, but if you want to clarify everything, it must be done in a simple and explanatory. In practice: "there are three ways to burn cd/dvd on Arch linux, using packages cdrkit, cdrtools or libburnia." Explain the use of all in a comprehensive way (in the case should be reviewed throughout the page) but, consider that the main front-end using the packages described above. It is interesting to your proposal, but I do not have the technical means to be able to help in this regard.Veleno (talk) 15:39, 26 July 2013 (UTC)
I take your answer as encouragement to post the long list of proposals.
(I am not doing well with wiki formatting here. Some experienced polishing seems needed.)
Install CD-burning utilities
  • I would clean out the burn war rethorics, and rather list the known free programs and their packages in alphabetic order. Further i would put the description of dvd+rw-tools here and change the title to: "Install fundamental burning utilities for CD, DVD, and BD". I would explain that from the following lists one needs at least one program for creating ISO 9660 filesystem images and one program for burning data to the desired media type.
  • The list of known free programs for ISO 9660 creation:
genisoimage from package cdrkit
isomaster from package isomaster (with gtk2 GUI)
mkisofs from package cdrtools
xorriso from package libisoburn
xorrisofs from package libisoburn
  • The list of known free programs for CD, DVD, BD burning:
cdrdao from package cdrdao (CD only, .cue files only)
cdrecord from package cdrtools
cdrskin from package libburn
growisofs from package dvd+rw-tools (DVD and BD only)
wodim from package cdrkit (CD only, DVD deprecated)
xorriso from package libisoburn (no audio CD)
xorrecord from package libisoburn (no audio CD)
  • The free GUI programs for CD, DVD, BD burning depend on at least one of the above packages.
Modifying the CD-RW
  • I would mention that cdrecord, wodim, cdrskin all support the shown options for CD manipulation, wheras cdrdao has its own option set.
  • I would clean out the traces of cdrtools/cdrkit quarrel. If it is deemed necessary at all, then a general advise would be appropriate, to try one of the listed alternatives in case of trouble.
  • (One could open a new paragraph about multi-session. xorriso would look very good there. :))
Making an ISO image from an existing CD
This part should come before burning CDs (but after creating ISO images from disk files).
  • I would use dd bs=2048 rather than readcd or readom, which may or may not be good for reading non-data CD. (The statement that dd and cat "provide no error checking" is wrong, because you do get an i/o error if a block is unreadable or non-data. dd works nicely on auto-mounted CD. So the "Note:" box about umount can be shifted to the topic CD burning.)
Making an ISO image from existing files on hard disk
This part should come before burning CDs (and before extracting ISO images from CD).
  • I would mention that mkisofs, genisoimage, xorrisofs all support the shown options for ISO image creation. (The longish example with growisofs should be shown here. Without the growisofs aspects.)
DVD burning
  • I would widen the chapter to "DVD and BD".
  • I would state that cdrdao and wodim are not suitable for DVD or BD. (Although wodim works with some DVD types, it is not worth the hassle.)
  • The packages cdrtools, dvd+rw-tools, and libburn+libisofs+libisoburn are suitable for DVD and BD burning. (Although i think that cdrecord does various DVD things wrong.)
  • The already mentioned programs for producing ISO 9660 filesystems are suitable for DVD and BD, too. The standards for video on DVD and BD demand UDF filesystems. genisoimage and mkisofs can produce the format prescribed for DVD. (I am clueless about how to produce a UDF 2.50 for BD. Typically only the oldest players do not read plain ISO 9660. So possibly nobody cares about the specs.)
  • growisofs has a bug with BD-R. One can work around it by formatting the BD-R with dvd+rw-format before giving it to growisofs, or by using growisofs option -use-the-force-luke=spare:none if one does not want formatting and slow Defect Management.
  • ( archlinux should consider to repair the known growisofs BD-R bug by applying the single-line patch proposed in http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=713016 )
  • I would remove the "Note:" about dvdrtools and completeness of cdrtools. (dvdrtools is not capable of all DVD types. I deem growisofs and libburn better suited for DVD than cdrecord. So there is reason to install one of these two.)
  • I would add program xfburn to the "Tip:" about k3b and brasero. (And maybe xorriso-tcltk.)
  • The first two growisofs examples run a mkisofs compatible helper program. Default is "mkisofs", but one can switch to other program names by executing before the growisofs run: export MKISOFS="genisoimage" or export MKISOFS="xorrisofs" . (xorrisofs cannot produce UDF images. UDF is not required by the existing -dvd-video example, but possibly should be.)
  • For image extraction from DVD and BD, i would propose dd bs=2048, rather than readcd or readom.
  • The explanation of mkisofs options with the fifth growisofs example should be merged with the paragraph "Making an ISO image from existing files on hard disk"
  • Rather than to "Note: growisofs is basically just a front-end to mkisofs" one should state that nearly all mkisofs options may be used with a growisofs run.(-o is not allowed and -C should only be used if one wants to override the expert opinion of growisofs about the state of the DVD.)
  • cdrecord, cdrskin, and xorrecord burn DVD and BD with about the same options as with CD burning. xorriso has its own command set. I would translate the growisofs examples into additional examples for cdrecord and for xorriso. (Actually the growisofs -M example should be expanded to a paragraph about multi-session.)
Re-writable DVDs
  • I would not mention explicit formatting for DVD+RW (or BD-RE), because all burn programs apply default formatting if needed.
  • I would rather mention that DVD-RW can be used unformatted which makes them very similar to DVD-R. But unformatted written DVD-RW need to be blanked before re-use. Fast blanking deprives them of their multi-session capability.
  • Full blanking lasts long. Better is to format DVD-RW, so that they behave much like DVD+RW: dvd+rw-format -force /dev/cdrw or cdrskin -v dev=/dev/cdrw blank=format_overwrite or xorriso -outdev /dev/cdrw -format as_needed
BD Defect Management
  • This new paragraph would explain why BD-RE and formatted BD-R are written much slower than their nominal speed. It is due to checkreading and bad block replacement, which can be disabled to achieve full nominal speed.
Scdbackup (talk) 21:52, 26 July 2013 (UTC)
As an example of how i would implement my proposals, i have now added an overview of available burn tools and a note about the workaround for the BD-R bug of growisofs. (Sorry for not giving an appropriate summary with the change of 09:46, 27 July 2013.) I hope not to have deleted any valuable information from that section. Please confirm that i shall go on. Scdbackup (talk) 09:59, 27 July 2013 (UTC)
Please do not make too many changes in the same post (except for corrections of form and syntax), this could possibly create problems for those who follow the message. This is a very big change! I can not say if everything is correct, but I can express my thoughts. I believe that greater clarity and cleanliness can be good, currently there are six main sections:
  1. CD burning
  2. DVD burning
  3. DVD playing
  4. Burning CD/DVD with a GUI
  5. DVD ripping
  6. Troubleshooting
This layout is derived from the combination of multiple pages (see discussion above), and there is no reason to improve their formatting. Now this page is aptly titled "Optical Disc Drive" because it contains generically any existing optical drive, past and future. (cd, dvd, bluray disc), then it is possible to recast the sections on the basis of this principle. But there is a feature to be taken into account, namely that the first part describes the tools you need and how to use the command line. An exception is the chapter "Burning CD/DVD with a GUI" as this comes from another page List of Applications/Multimedia, and I think it should remain the same (you can possibly change the title). . For example:
  • Create a new primary section Install burning utilities (which contains all the tools to burn CD/DVD/BD, merge #CD burning and #DVD burning)
  • Create a new secondary section ODD Playing (or similar), which includes all references to playing CD/DVD/BD (to replace #DVD playing)
  • Create a new thirdy section ODD ripping (or similar), which includes all references to ripping CD/DVD/BD (to replace #DVD ripping)
  • Preserve #Burning CD/DVD with a GUI (this must be a list of GUI), enventually changed the title in best ones, example Graphics Interface
  • Preserve #Troubleshooting, to include all trouble in a single sections.
These could be major changes sensible: E for everyone decide the content. Each operation must be done patiently, without changing everything at once. What do you think?Veleno (talk) 10:32, 27 July 2013 (UTC)
Sorry for the size of my proposal and the perky change of the wiki. The latter should be harmless because it just lists the known free programs and leads the user to those programs which are mentioned in the following sections.
It is desirable to unify the description of burning of CD, DVD, BD. The existing sections overlap by us other programmers intruding into the realm of growisofs. :))
Ripping of CD, DVD, and BD is mostly out of my scope. But i know that the challenges with CD differ significantly from those with DVD and BD.
I have no user experience with the GUI programs. Mostly i know them from troubleshooting their backend programs.
The troubleshooting section is currently totally missing my kind of trouble: write errors, speed problems, limitations of media types, ... Is there a bug database where to fish for such reports ?
On a side note: Why does the query https://www.archlinux.org/packages/?name=isomaster not find https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/isomaster/ ? How to create a link in the wiki ?
Scdbackup (talk) 12:00, 27 July 2013 (UTC)
Wow sorry for delaying my answer but it took me ages to go through all this thread :) Welcome to the ArchWiki! Let's begin:
>>Would it be welcome if i make substantial changes, or would it be better to leave the wiki work to a person who is not involved in the competing burn software for archlinux ?
Yes it would be more than welcome, as long as you split your changes in several edits, not only a single (nor just a few) big one. Each edit must be accompanied by a proper Edit Summary, see also Help:Style#Edit summary.
>>(I have no experience with this wiki software. Beware.)
I think you're doing well until now, wiki markup is designed to be easy to use; you may find some useful guidelines in Help:Editing and related.
Regarding the changes that you want to apply to this article, I think that overall they are going to be a huge improvement: you show a high degree of competence on the subject (obviously, being the developer of an optical media management library), so I think you can do a very good job. I can't really judge the correctness of the information you're going to add, but this is a wiki, so as long as you write in an objective, unbiased way, you can go and share your knowledge with the community, which will be thankful for that ;)
>>The troubleshooting section is currently totally missing my kind of trouble: write errors, speed problems, limitations of media types, ... Is there a bug database where to fish for such reports ?
Are you talking about upstream bugs? I don't think so because being a developer you know that they must be reported upstream ^^ If they're bugs specific to the Arch versions of the affected packages, you should use https://bugs.archlinux.org/ Otherwise if they are just issues that must be solved on a per-user basis, just use the Troubleshooting section of this article.
>>On a side note: Why does the query https://www.archlinux.org/packages/?name=isomaster not find https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/isomaster/ ? How to create a link in the wiki ?
That query doesn't work because isomasterAUR is a package in the AUR, not in the official repositories: if you're not familiar with the Arch Linux repository system, you can start reading those two articles. In order to link to packages, you should use Template:Pkg or Template:AUR (follow those links for usage guidelines), e.g. isomasterAUR. About links, see Help:Editing#Links.
-- Kynikos (talk) 05:42, 28 July 2013 (UTC)
hi, kinikos. The user has raised issues to improve the entire section on the creation of images and burning. This leads to a big change of the whole part for CD burnig and DVD burning, which no longer need to exist separated, and therefore is a complete review of all that section. It's a big change, and I do not have much technical expertise to check everything on Arch Linux system. I have now done via email to work on his page to a draft (https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/User_talk:Scdbackup#Burning), as the changes are radical. He is doing a magnificent job, the problem and how to apply it step by step in the wiki. As you know this type of job, extra-translation, i are not yet accustomed. If you need you can also contact me via email.Veleno (talk) 07:13, 28 July 2013 (UTC)
We are going to apply the changes discussed here. We will carry out a fusion of the first two chapters CD burning and DVD burning in one section called Burning (at maximum you could then rename it to ODD burning, you accept tips). Then the section Burning CD/DVD with a GUI will be included in the new section as a sub-section. Veleno (talk) 10:10, 30 July 2013 (UTC)