Difference between revisions of "Talk:Optical disc drive"

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==Command line order==
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== Verifying the burnt ISO image ==
I don't know what ArchLinux is about, but this page was a very nice reference for growisofs. However, according to the man page for growisofs, all options for growisofs should come before the <code>-[Z|M] /dev/dvd-device</code>. The synopsis is:
+
growisofs <span style="color:green">[-dry-run] [-dvd-compat] [-overburn] [-speed=1] -[Z|M] /dev/dvd</span> <span style="color:blue"><mkisofs-options></span>
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so this line:
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growisofs <span style="color:green">-Z /dev/cdrw</span> <span style="color:blue">-v -l</span> <span style="color:green">-dry-run</span> <span style="color:blue">-iso-level 3 -R -J</span> <span style="color:green">-speed=2</span> <span style="color:blue">-joliet-long -graft-points /Magazines/=/home/citral/books/mags/</span>
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should rather be:
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growisofs <span style="color:green">-dry-run -speed=2 -Z /dev/cdrw</span> <span style="color:blue">-v -l -iso-level 3 -R -J -joliet-long -graft-points /Magazines/=/home/citral/books/mags/</span>
+
since <code>-dry-run</code> and <code>-speed=N</code> are options for growisofs and not mkisofs. I'm guessing growisofs figures that out for itself though, but for the sake of consistency, I feel the order should be changed... - ([[User:Reep|Reep]] 15:24, 4 April 2006 (EDT))
+
: Sounds very logical to me. Since it is your discovery, would you mind updating the page yourself?  --[[User:Citral|citral]] 14:24, 16 July 2006 (PDT)
+
  
==DVD Ripping - mplayer -dumpstream==
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Although the part with getting the md5sum of the previously created ISO image is quite obvious, the part with verifying the actual contents of the burnt disc seems to be somewhat inaccurate.
hey,
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I normaly just do
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mplayer -dumpstream
+
  
and write it to a .vob file.
+
As soon as you have an alias like '''alias ls='ls-hF --color=auto'''' in your .profile, which could come in handy, the mentioned method for getting the block count is wrong:
  
So the actual command could look like:
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  $ blocks=$(expr $(ls -l isoimage.iso | awk '{print $5}') / 2048)
  mplayer dvd://1 -v -dumpstream -dumpfile film.vob
+
  
Of course I get really big files this way. (3-8 gigabyte)
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To make sure the calculated block count is valid for various user defined environments I would recommend the use of '''du -b''':
But I think it's definitely the best quality, isn't it?
+
And you can easily compress the vob-file anyway later if you want to.
+
  
I don't really have much knowledge about mplayer and video in general, so I didn't just write it in the article.
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$ blocks=$(expr $(du -b isoimage.iso | awk '{print $1}') / 2048)
I only adopted it from [http://wiki.ubuntuusers.de/DVDs_manuell_rippen] (german language)
+
  
If anyone knows a better method (for example make mplayer read the dvd more carefully, if quality matters more than time) please write.
 
  
--[[User:Advocatusdiaboli|Advocatusdiaboli]] 15:40, 10 November 2009 (EST)
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That's what I just stumbled upon while trying to verify my burnt image.
  
--
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: I did not think of such aliases. My ~/.bashrc has: alias ls=ls
 +
: Your proposed du seems less prone to aliasing. Option -b is promised to be safe from pitfalls of sparse files. So i will put it into the wiki.
 +
: I wonder, though,  whether stat(1) would be ubiquitous enough in archlinux:
 +
: $ blocks=$(expr $(stat -c '%s' isoimage.iso) / 2048)
 +
: [[User:Scdbackup|Scdbackup]] ([[User talk:Scdbackup|talk]]) 15:42, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
 +
: General thoughts:
 +
: alias is an arbitrary nasty problem with shell commands, of course. One cannot avoid it by alias ls=ls in a sub shell. man 1 bash is merciless in that aspect. Inquiring alias manually, unaliasing, executing size determination, re-aliasing ... is much too complicated. Should we bet on the existence of /bin/ls or /bin/du ? Any other ideas to surely prevent alias evaluation in an interactive command ? [[User:Scdbackup|Scdbackup]] ([[User talk:Scdbackup|talk]]) 16:09, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
 +
:: Research:
 +
:: http://www.tldp.org/LDP/Linux-Filesystem-Hierarchy/html/bin.html and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filesystem_Hierarchy_Standard promise the existence of /bin/ls . du is not listed there. So /bin/ls is currently my best bet to prevent alias evaluation.
 +
:: I will wait a few days for objections or better ideas before changing the size command in the wiki page again. Please keep me from doing stupid things. [[User:Scdbackup|Scdbackup]] ([[User talk:Scdbackup|talk]]) 16:27, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
  
Maybe some of these links have useful info? [http://www.linux.com/archive/feature/140081] [http://www.linux.com/archive/feature/128105] [http://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/handbrake.html]
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:::Of course there's no way to find a one-size-fits-all solution, maybe it's just worth to quickly mention the problem and propose the ls method as an alternative. I'd keep du as the main method because it's indeed less likely to be aliased. About its existence on all systems, this is the wiki for Arch Linux, whose basic, default installation includes {{Pkg|coreutils}}, where both ls and du are provided. -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 03:55, 31 August 2013 (UTC)
  
== special burning options ? ==
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::::du -b seems quite robust. I tried to fool it by alias definitions like du='du --human-readable'. But an explict option -b overrides it properly. I still get the byte count. (Sequence matters. du -b --human-readable would show e.g. "590M"). My doubts about availability are rather about stat(1). It would be more appealing than du, because du's main job is to report disk usage, not the addressable byte size.
 +
::::One of the problems i feared is demonstrated by :
 +
::::  dd if=/dev/zero bs=1 count=1 seek=10000000 of=/tmp/sparse_test ; ls -l /tmp/sparse_test ; du /tmp/sparse_test ; du -b /tmp/sparse_test
 +
::::On my machine i get a file of adressable 10000001 bytes which uses only 12 disk blocks of 1 KB. But du -b does it right. So for now i postpone my plan to change the size determination once again. [[User:Scdbackup|Scdbackup]] ([[User talk:Scdbackup|talk]]) 09:30, 31 August 2013 (UTC)
  
Have think about burning following CD :
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== Unfortunate re-introduction of cdrtools war aspects ==
-bootable CD
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-contains audio track ( for CD player ) , any position is OK
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Is such CD ( technically ) possible to burn ?
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I am unhappy with changes
  
== Burning files/directories throught genisoimage ==
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03:52, 22 December 2013 Fleetwood
 +
  https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Optical_Disc_Drive&diff=289913&oldid=289894
  
make the .iso file:
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04:04, 22 December 2013 Fleetwood
# genisoimage -r -J -o cd_image.iso /directory
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  https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Optical_Disc_Drive&diff=289918&oldid=289917
  
 +
which add "mkisofs" to explanations which apply to all three compatible programs and not specifically to mkisofs.
  
The -r and -J ensures long file names work for Unix (using Rock Ridge) and Windows (using Joliet extensions) respectively.
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Firstly, this unnecessarily refers to unpleasant discussions about who is right with optical drives and software licenses.
  
==<s>Merge multiple pages CD/DVD</s>==
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Secondly, if "or mkisofs" gets sprinkled all over the text, then i would feel discriminated, if it would not become "or mkisofs or xorrisofs". (I am the developer of the latter.)
  
I've seen that there are a few Pages that describe CD / DVD burning tools. I ask myself "why?".  
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How should i proceed ?
 +
Is there a way to contact Fleetwood about this issue ?
 +
We seem to have technical interests in common.
  
*[[CD Burning]]
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[[User:Scdbackup|Scdbackup]] ([[User talk:Scdbackup|talk]]) 16:39, 28 December 2013 (UTC)
*[[DVD Burning]]
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*[[DVD Playing]]
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*[[DVD Ripping]]
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*[[Video2dvdiso]] one page for a single script (????)
+
  
This pages describe "how to use" the same device. Nowadays there are only devices that burning them both cd/dvd.
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:You can try to [[Special:EmailUser/Fleetwood|send him an email]], but I think you should see this report first: [[ArchWiki_talk:Reports#cdrtools_page]].
I think we need to merge all the pages in a single.
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:I'm not acquainted with any of these tools, but I have the impression that the previous wording was better - especially with regard to the example commands.
In this way it is easier consultation by the users, because everyone would like to know how to exploit and operate your device to play, burning and ripping cd/dvd without having to navigate through multiple pages for a single device. Also the page of 'DVD burning' are not mentioned programs to burn, rightly cited the page burinig CD ..... this indicates that do not make sense multiple page for a single device, I want to know how to use my dvd burner? I have to navigate through multiple pages, if only to know what programs to use.[[User:Veleno77|Veleno]] ([[User talk:Veleno77|talk]]) 08:18, 15 July 2013 (UTC)
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:-- [[User:Lahwaacz|Lahwaacz]] ([[User talk:Lahwaacz|talk]]) 17:50, 28 December 2013 (UTC)
  
:Ah well it sounds like a good plan to me :) It also sounds like a big job though: if you think you can do it, go for it! Just make sure to do many little edits (not just a few big ones) and document all of them using the edit summary. If you're not doing the merge, instead, you can request it by adding [[Template:Merge]] to those articles. -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 13:52, 16 July 2013 (UTC)
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::Ahum ... so my gut feeling was right: Beginning quarrel. The next traditional step of escalation would be hostile editing, accusation, counter-accusation, and finally mutual declaration of being clueless.
  
::Yes ! It's a big job! mmm I can try to do a single page in my personal page, just to example, and add a template "merge" in all pages that link in this discussion. So all users will be made aware and can participate if they want, while I begin to do a draft.[[User:Veleno77|Veleno]] ([[User talk:Veleno77|talk]]) 10:12, 17 July 2013 (UTC)
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::Reading the diff since my last visit:
 +
::  https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Optical_Disc_Drive&diff=290146&oldid=283755
 +
::i would say that the larger changes are not better or worse than what was stated before. No false claims. Just more words.
  
::: Well, i've created an example for this merging in my personal page https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/User:Veleno77 . This merging consist in a few step.
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::But i uphold my warning that the two mentioned changesets begin to revert my efforts of last summer. See above:
:::# Create a new page with title " Optical disc drive "
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::  https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Talk:Optical_Disc_Drive#How_to_contribute_as_upstream_developer_.3F
:::# In this page, simply merging [[CD Burning]] , [[DVD Burning]] , [[DVD Playing]] , [[DVD Ripping]] and related troubleshooting.
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:::# In the section "See also" add a link to  [[Convert any Movie to DVD Video]], because this is the real related page.
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:::# The page [[Video2dvdiso]] is a page for a single script related to [[Convert any Movie to DVD Video]], and I think must be included in it.
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:::Now I'm waiting for your views. [[User:Veleno77|Veleno]] ([[User talk:Veleno77|talk]]) 22:25, 17 July 2013 (UTC)
+
  
::::Good job, I like your draft, I'd just like to ask you to wait a few days before putting it into practice, let's say until this weekend, so we'll see if there are any users against the merge. That said, note the title of the page will have to be capitalized as per [[Help:Editing#Creating pages]] (I know it's a [[Help_talk:Style#Title_case|very hidden rule]]), and to make it a very good job you could try to perform the merge in multiple edits, not only a single big one, for example:
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::Was Fleetwood already contacted about this issue ?
::::# Create [[Optical Disc Drive]]
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::[[User:Scdbackup|Scdbackup]] ([[User talk:Scdbackup|talk]]) 19:08, 28 December 2013 (UTC)
::::# Merge [[CD Burning]] as it is (without changes)
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::::# Adjust the section tree as in your draft
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::::# Merge [[DVD Burning]] as it is (without changes)
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::::# Adjust the section tree as in your draft
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::::# Merge [[DVD Playing]] as it is (without changes)
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::::# Adjust the section tree as in your draft
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::::# Merge [[DVD Ripping]] as it is (without changes)
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::::# Adjust the section tree as in your draft
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::::# Merge the Troubleshooting sections
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::::# Add any relevant links to the See also section
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::::Then redirect the 4 merged articles to the correct sections in [[Optical Disc Drive]].
+
::::Finally yeah, I'd say [[Video2dvdiso]] can be merged into [[Convert any Movie to DVD Video]].
+
::::-- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 11:22, 18 July 2013 (UTC)
+
  
:::::Thank you for all your support and for your explanations. Unfortunately I am new to this method of "merging". I welcome all your suggestions and I hope to do things in a clear way, and not to make mistakes. I'll wait a few days and then I will get to work.[[User:Veleno77|Veleno]] ([[User talk:Veleno77|talk]]) 21:43, 18 July 2013 (UTC)
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:::I did not try to contact him except for several posts on talk pages. And don't worry, your effort will certainly not come in vain ;)
 +
:::Perhaps this "war" thing is the reason why his edits were not accepted on Wikipedia? This quarrel you described might have happened there before, and their approach might be the best (relative to maintenance).
 +
:::One more thing: the original questionable edits by [[User:Fleetwood|Fleetwood]] (see [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Optical_Disc_Drive&diff=289919&oldid=285874]) were amended by [[User:Fengchao|Fengchao]] and [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Optical_Disc_Drive&diff=next&oldid=289919], [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Optical_Disc_Drive&diff=next&oldid=289937], [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Optical_Disc_Drive&diff=next&oldid=290092] and [https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Optical_Disc_Drive&diff=next&oldid=290093]), but they were ''style changes'' only and are irrelevant to the real problem (perfect style is useless without good content).
 +
:::-- [[User:Lahwaacz|Lahwaacz]] ([[User talk:Lahwaacz|talk]]) 20:41, 28 December 2013 (UTC)
  
::::::OK! All the changes have been done. I did well to create redirects to the sections? Or should I point them to the main page?[[User:Veleno77|Veleno]] ([[User talk:Veleno77|talk]]) 18:14, 22 July 2013 (UTC)
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::::I wrote a mail meanwhile, asking for consent to remove the newly introduced explicit mentionings of mkisofs.
  
:::::::Very well done, thank you!! And thanks for making it easy to check all the edits by applying the changes step by step :) Redirecting to the proper sections was indeed the right thing to do, I've just redirected here the respective talk pages too, merging all the old discussions, like this very one.
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::::The war thing is based on a longstanding feud between Joerg Schilling on one side and Linux kernel developers plus distro packers on the other side. Since then, discussions about optical drive burning and ISO 9660 production are synonyms for "flame war".
:::::::This discussion can be closed, as new comments can be added to [[#A big merge]].
+
::::In 2006 it resulted in forking of Debian's cdrkit from Joerg's cdrtools. At the same time, i joined the libburnia project to beef up libburn to a competitive level. My main motivation is to free the topics from the eternal quarrel. (Still working on that :))
:::::::-- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 13:59, 23 July 2013 (UTC)
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== A big merge ==
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::::My plan for correcting the changes is to just remove the surplus occurences of mkisofs. I am not a native speaker of english, and also somewhat too much involved in the technical entrails. So Fleetwood's other changes might well be appropriate, language-wise. As said: technically they are not wrong.
 +
::::[[User:Scdbackup|Scdbackup]] ([[User talk:Scdbackup|talk]]) 20:58, 28 December 2013 (UTC)
  
This page is the result of the merger of pages:
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:(Just adding that Fleetwood seems active on his User page, maybe a message in [[User talk:Fleetwood]] could be effective.) -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 03:43, 29 December 2013 (UTC)
*[[CD Burning]]
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*[[DVD Burning]]
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*[[DVD Playing]]
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*[[DVD Ripping]]
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A one page to describe how to use an optical disc drive: CD burning;  burning, ripping and playing DVD, inherent troubleshooting.
+
  
'''For all wiki's translators:, simple read the "history" tab for how to merge all page in your language.'''
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::I now posted an offer for cooperation there. Fleetwood obviously explores all kinds of optical disc software. A special bias for cdrtools is not to detect.
For more detail see https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Talk:CD_Burning [[User:Veleno77|Veleno]] ([[User talk:Veleno77|talk]]) 15:31, 22 July 2013 (UTC)
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::[[User:Scdbackup|Scdbackup]] ([[User talk:Scdbackup|talk]]) 11:02, 29 December 2013 (UTC)
  
== How to contribute as upstream developer ? ==
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:The surplus mentionings of "mkisofs" are removed now. See
 
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:https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Optical_Disc_Drive&diff=294871&oldid=294702A
Being the developer of libburn i see that you are consolidating
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:As a general rule of thumb, i propose to mention "genisoimage" where  any of the compatible programs would work. The existence of these programs is explained already at the begginning of the article.
the knowledge about CD, DVD, and BD.
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: [[User:Scdbackup|Scdbackup]] ([[User talk:Scdbackup|talk]]) 09:09, 29 January 2014 (UTC)
Now i feel the urge to propose some corrections.
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Would it be welcome if i make substantial changes, or would it
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be better to leave the wiki work to a person who is not involved
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in the competing burn software for archlinux ?
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(I have no experience with this wiki software. Beware.)
+
 
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What i would change:
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# Clean out burn war rethorics (mainly cdrkit vs. cdrtools)
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# Move ISO 9660 stuff before burning stuff
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# Add my own packages libburn, libisofs, libisoburn to the list
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# Unify the command names used in examples
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# Clarify some technical facts
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I have a more detailed list of change proposals. 150 lines.
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Shall i post it here ?
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[[User:Scdbackup|Scdbackup]] ([[User talk:Scdbackup|talk]]) 12:48, 26 July 2013 (UTC)
+
 
+
: Do a bit of clarity between cdrkit and cdrtools would be a pleasant thing. As well as any technical clarifications. At present I see that your packages are only used by Xfburn front-end, and from Brasero as a alternative back-end (on Arch Linux). Mainly others use a combination cdrkit/dvd+rw-tools. I'm ignorant on the subject, but if you want to clarify everything, it must be done in a simple and explanatory. In practice: "there are three ways to burn cd/dvd on Arch linux, using packages cdrkit, cdrtools or libburnia." Explain the use of all in a comprehensive way (in the case should be reviewed throughout the page) but, consider that the main front-end using the packages described above. It is interesting to your proposal, but I do not have the technical means to be able to help in this regard.[[User:Veleno77|Veleno]] ([[User talk:Veleno77|talk]]) 15:39, 26 July 2013 (UTC)
+
 
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:: I take your answer as encouragement to post the long list of proposals.
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:: (I am not doing well with wiki formatting here. Some experienced polishing seems needed.)
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:: -------------------------------------------------------------------
+
 
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:: '''Install CD-burning utilities'''
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::* I would clean out the burn war rethorics, and rather list the known free programs and their packages in alphabetic order. Further i would put the description of dvd+rw-tools here and change the title to: "Install fundamental burning utilities for CD, DVD, and BD". I would explain that from the following lists one needs at least one program for creating ISO 9660 filesystem images and one program for burning data to the desired media type.
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::* The list of known free programs for ISO 9660 creation:
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:: ''genisoimage'' from package ''cdrkit''
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:: ''isomaster'' from package ''isomaster'' (with gtk2 GUI)
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:: ''mkisofs'' from package ''cdrtools''
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:: ''xorriso'' from package ''libisoburn''
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:: ''xorrisofs'' from package ''libisoburn''
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::* The list of known free programs for CD, DVD, BD burning:
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:: ''cdrdao'' from package ''cdrdao'' (CD only, .cue files only)
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:: ''cdrecord'' from package ''cdrtools''
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:: ''cdrskin'' from package ''libburn''
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:: ''growisofs'' from package ''dvd+rw-tools'' (DVD and BD only)
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:: ''wodim'' from package ''cdrkit'' (CD only, DVD deprecated)
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:: ''xorriso'' from package ''libisoburn'' (no audio CD)
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:: ''xorrecord'' from package ''libisoburn'' (no audio CD)
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::* The free GUI programs for CD, DVD, BD burning depend on at least one of the above packages.
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:: '''Modifying the CD-RW'''
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::* I would mention that cdrecord, wodim, cdrskin all support the shown options for CD manipulation, wheras cdrdao has its own option set.
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::* I would clean out the traces of cdrtools/cdrkit quarrel. If it is deemed necessary at all, then a general advise would be appropriate, to try one of the listed alternatives in case of trouble.
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::* (One could open a new paragraph about multi-session. xorriso would look very good there. :))
+
:: '''Making an ISO image from an existing CD'''
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:: This part should come before burning CDs (but after creating ISO images from disk files).
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::* I would use {{ic|1= dd bs=2048}} rather than readcd or readom, which may or may not be good for reading non-data CD. (The statement that dd and cat "provide no error checking" is wrong, because you do get an i/o error if a block is unreadable or non-data. dd works nicely on auto-mounted CD. So the "Note:" box about umount can be shifted to the topic CD burning.)
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:: '''Making an ISO image from existing files on hard disk'''
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:: This part should come before burning CDs (and before extracting ISO images from CD).
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::* I would mention that mkisofs, genisoimage, xorrisofs all support the shown options for ISO image creation. (The longish example with growisofs should be shown here.  Without the growisofs aspects.)
+
:: '''DVD burning'''
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::* I would widen the chapter to "DVD and BD".
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::* I would state that cdrdao and wodim are not suitable for DVD or BD. (Although wodim works with some DVD types, it is not worth the hassle.)
+
::* The packages cdrtools, dvd+rw-tools, and libburn+libisofs+libisoburn are suitable for DVD and BD burning. (Although i think that cdrecord does various DVD things wrong.)
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::* The already mentioned programs for producing ISO 9660 filesystems are suitable for DVD and BD, too. The standards for video on DVD and BD demand UDF filesystems.  genisoimage and mkisofs can produce the format prescribed for DVD. (I am clueless about how to produce a UDF 2.50 for BD. Typically only the oldest players do not read plain ISO 9660. So possibly nobody cares about the specs.)
+
::* growisofs has a bug with BD-R. One can work around it by formatting the BD-R with dvd+rw-format before giving it to growisofs, or by using growisofs option  {{ic|1= -use-the-force-luke=spare:none}} if one does not want formatting and slow Defect Management.
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::* ( archlinux should consider to repair the known growisofs BD-R bug by applying the single-line patch proposed in http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=713016 )
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::* I would remove the "Note:" about dvdrtools and completeness of cdrtools. (dvdrtools is not capable of all DVD types. I deem growisofs and libburn better suited for DVD than cdrecord. So there is reason to install one of these two.)
+
::* I would add program xfburn to the "Tip:" about k3b and brasero. (And maybe xorriso-tcltk.)
+
::* The first two growisofs examples run a mkisofs compatible helper program. Default is "mkisofs", but one can switch to other program names by executing before the growisofs run: {{ic|1= export MKISOFS="genisoimage"}} or {{ic|1= export MKISOFS="xorrisofs"}} . (xorrisofs cannot produce UDF images. UDF is not required by  the existing -dvd-video example, but possibly should be.)
+
::* For image extraction from DVD and BD, i would propose {{ic|1= dd bs=2048}}, rather than readcd or readom.
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::* The explanation of mkisofs options with the fifth growisofs example should be merged with the paragraph "Making an ISO image from existing files on hard disk"
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::* Rather than to "Note: growisofs is basically just a front-end to mkisofs" one should state that nearly all mkisofs options may be used with a growisofs run.(-o is not allowed and -C should only be used if one wants to override the expert opinion of growisofs about the state of the DVD.)
+
::* cdrecord, cdrskin, and xorrecord burn DVD and BD with about the same options as with CD burning. xorriso has its own command set. I would translate the growisofs examples into additional examples for cdrecord and for xorriso. (Actually the {{ic|1= growisofs -M}} example should be expanded to a paragraph about multi-session.)
+
:: '''Re-writable DVDs'''
+
::* I would not mention explicit formatting for DVD+RW (or BD-RE), because all burn programs apply default formatting if needed.
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::* I would rather mention that DVD-RW can be used unformatted which makes them very similar to DVD-R. But unformatted written DVD-RW need to be blanked before re-use. Fast blanking deprives them of their multi-session capability.
+
::* Full blanking lasts long. Better is to format DVD-RW, so that they behave much like DVD+RW: {{ic|1= dvd+rw-format -force /dev/cdrw}} or {{ic|1= cdrskin -v dev=/dev/cdrw blank=format_overwrite}} or {{ic|1=xorriso -outdev /dev/cdrw -format}} as_needed
+
:: '''BD Defect Management'''
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::* This new paragraph would explain why BD-RE and formatted BD-R are written much slower than their nominal speed. It is due to checkreading and bad block replacement, which can be disabled to achieve full nominal speed.
+
:: [[User:Scdbackup|Scdbackup]] ([[User talk:Scdbackup|talk]]) 21:52, 26 July 2013 (UTC)
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:: As an example of how i would implement my proposals, i have now added an overview of available burn tools and a note about the workaround for the BD-R bug of growisofs. (Sorry for not giving an appropriate summary with the change of 09:46, 27 July 2013.) I hope not to have deleted any valuable information from that section. Please confirm that i shall go on. [[User:Scdbackup|Scdbackup]] ([[User talk:Scdbackup|talk]]) 09:59, 27 July 2013 (UTC)
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::: Please do not make too many changes in the same post (except for corrections of form and syntax), this could possibly create problems for those who follow the message. This is a very big change! I can not say if everything is correct, but I can express my thoughts. I believe that greater clarity and cleanliness can be good, currently there are six main sections:
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:::# CD burning
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:::# DVD burning
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:::# DVD playing
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:::# Burning CD/DVD with a GUI
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:::# DVD ripping
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:::# Troubleshooting
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::: This layout is derived from the combination of multiple pages (see discussion above), and there is no reason to improve their formatting. Now this page is aptly titled "Optical Disc Drive" because it contains generically any existing optical drive, past and future. (cd, dvd, bluray disc), then it is possible to recast the sections on the basis of this principle. But there is a feature to be taken into account, namely that the first part describes the tools you need and how to use the command line. An exception is the chapter "Burning CD/DVD with a GUI" as this comes from another page [[List of Applications/Multimedia]], and I think it should remain the same (you can possibly change the title). . For example:
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:::* Create a new primary section '''Install burning utilities''' (which contains all the tools to burn CD/DVD/BD, merge [[#CD burning]] and [[#DVD burning]])
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:::* Create a new secondary section '''ODD Playing''' (or similar), which includes all references to playing CD/DVD/BD (to replace [[#DVD playing]])
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:::* Create a new thirdy section '''ODD ripping''' (or similar), which includes all references to ripping CD/DVD/BD (to replace [[#DVD ripping]])
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:::* Preserve [[#Burning CD/DVD with a GUI]] (this must be a list of GUI), enventually changed the title in best ones, example '''Graphics Interface'''
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:::* Preserve [[#Troubleshooting]], to include all trouble in a single sections.
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::: These could be major changes sensible: E for everyone decide the content. Each operation must be done patiently, without changing everything at once. What do you think?[[User:Veleno77|Veleno]] ([[User talk:Veleno77|talk]]) 10:32, 27 July 2013 (UTC)
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:::: Sorry for the size of my proposal and the perky change of the wiki. The latter should be harmless because it just lists the known free programs and leads the user to those programs which are mentioned in the following sections.
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:::: It is desirable to unify the description of burning of CD, DVD, BD. The existing sections overlap by us other programmers intruding into the realm of growisofs. :))
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:::: Ripping of CD, DVD, and BD is mostly out of my scope. But i know that the challenges with CD differ significantly from those with DVD and BD.
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:::: I have no user experience with the GUI programs. Mostly i know them from troubleshooting their backend programs.
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:::: The troubleshooting section is currently totally missing my kind of trouble: write errors, speed problems, limitations of media types, ... Is there a bug database where to fish for such reports ?
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:::: On a side note: Why does the query https://www.archlinux.org/packages/?name=isomaster not find https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/isomaster/ ? How to create a link in the wiki ?
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:::: [[User:Scdbackup|Scdbackup]] ([[User talk:Scdbackup|talk]]) 12:00, 27 July 2013 (UTC)
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:::::Wow sorry for delaying my answer but it took me ages to go through all this thread :) Welcome to the ArchWiki! Let's begin:
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:::::>>Would it be welcome if i make substantial changes, or would it be better to leave the wiki work to a person who is not involved in the competing burn software for archlinux ?
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:::::Yes it would be more than welcome, as long as you split your changes in several edits, '''not''' only a single (nor just a few) big one. Each edit must be accompanied by a proper Edit Summary, see also [[Help:Style#Edit summary]].
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:::::>>(I have no experience with this wiki software. Beware.)
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:::::I think you're doing well until now, wiki markup is designed to be easy to use; you may find some useful guidelines in [[Help:Editing]] and related.
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:::::Regarding the changes that you want to apply to this article, I think that overall they are going to be a huge improvement: you show a high degree of competence on the subject (obviously, being the developer of an optical media management library), so I think you can do a very good job. I can't really judge the correctness of the information you're going to add, but this is a wiki, so as long as you write in an ''objective'', ''unbiased'' way, you can go and share your knowledge with the community, which will be thankful for that ;)
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:::::>>The troubleshooting section is currently totally missing my kind of trouble: write errors, speed problems, limitations of media types, ... Is there a bug database where to fish for such reports ?
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:::::Are you talking about upstream bugs? I don't think so because being a developer you know that they must be reported upstream ^^ If they're bugs specific to the Arch versions of the affected packages, you should use https://bugs.archlinux.org/ Otherwise if they are just issues that must be solved on a per-user basis, just use the Troubleshooting section of this article.
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:::::>>On a side note: Why does the query https://www.archlinux.org/packages/?name=isomaster not find https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/isomaster/ ? How to create a link in the wiki ?
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:::::That query doesn't work because {{AUR|isomaster}} is a package in the [[AUR]], not in the [[official repositories]]: if you're not familiar with the Arch Linux repository system, you can start reading those two articles. In order to link to packages, you should use [[Template:Pkg]] or [[Template:AUR]] (follow those links for usage guidelines), e.g. {{AUR|isomaster}}. About links, see [[Help:Editing#Links]].
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:::::-- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 05:42, 28 July 2013 (UTC)
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:::::: hi, kinikos. The user  has raised issues to improve the entire section on the creation of images and burning. This leads to a big change of the whole part for '''CD burnig''' and '''DVD burning''', which no longer need to exist separated, and therefore is a complete review of all that section. It's a big change, and I do not have much technical expertise to check everything on Arch Linux system. I have now done via email to work on his page to a draft (https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/User_talk:Scdbackup#Burning), as the changes are radical. He is doing a magnificent job, the problem and how to apply it step by step in the wiki. As you know this type of job, extra-translation, i are not yet accustomed. If you need you can also contact me via email.[[User:Veleno77|Veleno]] ([[User talk:Veleno77|talk]]) 07:13, 28 July 2013 (UTC)
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Latest revision as of 00:50, 25 August 2014

Verifying the burnt ISO image

Although the part with getting the md5sum of the previously created ISO image is quite obvious, the part with verifying the actual contents of the burnt disc seems to be somewhat inaccurate.

As soon as you have an alias like alias ls='ls-hF --color=auto' in your .profile, which could come in handy, the mentioned method for getting the block count is wrong:

$ blocks=$(expr $(ls -l isoimage.iso | awk '{print $5}') / 2048)

To make sure the calculated block count is valid for various user defined environments I would recommend the use of du -b:

$ blocks=$(expr $(du -b isoimage.iso | awk '{print $1}') / 2048)


That's what I just stumbled upon while trying to verify my burnt image.

I did not think of such aliases. My ~/.bashrc has: alias ls=ls
Your proposed du seems less prone to aliasing. Option -b is promised to be safe from pitfalls of sparse files. So i will put it into the wiki.
I wonder, though, whether stat(1) would be ubiquitous enough in archlinux:
$ blocks=$(expr $(stat -c '%s' isoimage.iso) / 2048)
Scdbackup (talk) 15:42, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
General thoughts:
alias is an arbitrary nasty problem with shell commands, of course. One cannot avoid it by alias ls=ls in a sub shell. man 1 bash is merciless in that aspect. Inquiring alias manually, unaliasing, executing size determination, re-aliasing ... is much too complicated. Should we bet on the existence of /bin/ls or /bin/du ? Any other ideas to surely prevent alias evaluation in an interactive command ? Scdbackup (talk) 16:09, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
Research:
http://www.tldp.org/LDP/Linux-Filesystem-Hierarchy/html/bin.html and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filesystem_Hierarchy_Standard promise the existence of /bin/ls . du is not listed there. So /bin/ls is currently my best bet to prevent alias evaluation.
I will wait a few days for objections or better ideas before changing the size command in the wiki page again. Please keep me from doing stupid things. Scdbackup (talk) 16:27, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
Of course there's no way to find a one-size-fits-all solution, maybe it's just worth to quickly mention the problem and propose the ls method as an alternative. I'd keep du as the main method because it's indeed less likely to be aliased. About its existence on all systems, this is the wiki for Arch Linux, whose basic, default installation includes coreutils, where both ls and du are provided. -- Kynikos (talk) 03:55, 31 August 2013 (UTC)
du -b seems quite robust. I tried to fool it by alias definitions like du='du --human-readable'. But an explict option -b overrides it properly. I still get the byte count. (Sequence matters. du -b --human-readable would show e.g. "590M"). My doubts about availability are rather about stat(1). It would be more appealing than du, because du's main job is to report disk usage, not the addressable byte size.
One of the problems i feared is demonstrated by :
dd if=/dev/zero bs=1 count=1 seek=10000000 of=/tmp/sparse_test ; ls -l /tmp/sparse_test ; du /tmp/sparse_test ; du -b /tmp/sparse_test
On my machine i get a file of adressable 10000001 bytes which uses only 12 disk blocks of 1 KB. But du -b does it right. So for now i postpone my plan to change the size determination once again. Scdbackup (talk) 09:30, 31 August 2013 (UTC)

Unfortunate re-introduction of cdrtools war aspects

I am unhappy with changes

03:52, 22 December 2013 Fleetwood

 https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Optical_Disc_Drive&diff=289913&oldid=289894

04:04, 22 December 2013 Fleetwood

 https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Optical_Disc_Drive&diff=289918&oldid=289917

which add "mkisofs" to explanations which apply to all three compatible programs and not specifically to mkisofs.

Firstly, this unnecessarily refers to unpleasant discussions about who is right with optical drives and software licenses.

Secondly, if "or mkisofs" gets sprinkled all over the text, then i would feel discriminated, if it would not become "or mkisofs or xorrisofs". (I am the developer of the latter.)

How should i proceed ? Is there a way to contact Fleetwood about this issue ? We seem to have technical interests in common.

Scdbackup (talk) 16:39, 28 December 2013 (UTC)

You can try to send him an email, but I think you should see this report first: ArchWiki_talk:Reports#cdrtools_page.
I'm not acquainted with any of these tools, but I have the impression that the previous wording was better - especially with regard to the example commands.
-- Lahwaacz (talk) 17:50, 28 December 2013 (UTC)
Ahum ... so my gut feeling was right: Beginning quarrel. The next traditional step of escalation would be hostile editing, accusation, counter-accusation, and finally mutual declaration of being clueless.
Reading the diff since my last visit:
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Optical_Disc_Drive&diff=290146&oldid=283755
i would say that the larger changes are not better or worse than what was stated before. No false claims. Just more words.
But i uphold my warning that the two mentioned changesets begin to revert my efforts of last summer. See above:
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Talk:Optical_Disc_Drive#How_to_contribute_as_upstream_developer_.3F
Was Fleetwood already contacted about this issue ?
Scdbackup (talk) 19:08, 28 December 2013 (UTC)
I did not try to contact him except for several posts on talk pages. And don't worry, your effort will certainly not come in vain ;)
Perhaps this "war" thing is the reason why his edits were not accepted on Wikipedia? This quarrel you described might have happened there before, and their approach might be the best (relative to maintenance).
One more thing: the original questionable edits by Fleetwood (see [1]) were amended by Fengchao and Kynikos ([2], [3], [4] and [5]), but they were style changes only and are irrelevant to the real problem (perfect style is useless without good content).
-- Lahwaacz (talk) 20:41, 28 December 2013 (UTC)
I wrote a mail meanwhile, asking for consent to remove the newly introduced explicit mentionings of mkisofs.
The war thing is based on a longstanding feud between Joerg Schilling on one side and Linux kernel developers plus distro packers on the other side. Since then, discussions about optical drive burning and ISO 9660 production are synonyms for "flame war".
In 2006 it resulted in forking of Debian's cdrkit from Joerg's cdrtools. At the same time, i joined the libburnia project to beef up libburn to a competitive level. My main motivation is to free the topics from the eternal quarrel. (Still working on that :))
My plan for correcting the changes is to just remove the surplus occurences of mkisofs. I am not a native speaker of english, and also somewhat too much involved in the technical entrails. So Fleetwood's other changes might well be appropriate, language-wise. As said: technically they are not wrong.
Scdbackup (talk) 20:58, 28 December 2013 (UTC)
(Just adding that Fleetwood seems active on his User page, maybe a message in User talk:Fleetwood could be effective.) -- Kynikos (talk) 03:43, 29 December 2013 (UTC)
I now posted an offer for cooperation there. Fleetwood obviously explores all kinds of optical disc software. A special bias for cdrtools is not to detect.
Scdbackup (talk) 11:02, 29 December 2013 (UTC)
The surplus mentionings of "mkisofs" are removed now. See
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Optical_Disc_Drive&diff=294871&oldid=294702A
As a general rule of thumb, i propose to mention "genisoimage" where any of the compatible programs would work. The existence of these programs is explained already at the begginning of the article.
Scdbackup (talk) 09:09, 29 January 2014 (UTC)