Difference between revisions of "Talk:Systemd"

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== Display manager fails to load with fast SSD ==
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== Initscripts emulation ==
  
I was having a problem with my display manager (LXDM) not loading on my laptop, which has a Sandisk Extreme SSD.
 
Xorg.log would show errors like "No screens found."
 
  
I eventually figured out that the problem was that my computer was booting so fast that KMS didn't have enough time to kick in before X was started. I solved by adding the KMS driver (i915 in my case) to the initramfs.
 
  
Just a tip for SSD users, not sure if it should be added to the page or not.<br> --[[User:Steev|Steev]] ([[User talk:Steev|talk]]) 16:59, 2 September 2012 (UTC)
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== Should the section "writing a custom .service" be expanded? ==
:This is a general problem that needs to be solved in the display manager. GDM already implements the bits for the [http://cgit.freedesktop.org/systemd/systemd/commit/?id=f1a8e221ecacea23 CanGraphical] flag.
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:-- [[User:Falconindy|Falconindy]] ([[User talk:Falconindy|talk]]) 21:34, 2 September 2012 (UTC)
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== Hibernation with systemd ==
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I think so.. as long as I got, this is necessary to run self-made scripts during the boot process, but this is not clear and the structure of the files is not well presented.
  
The hibernation section should be considered a hack since systemd does not directly handle the backend that handles power management. Systemd uses the Upower interface to handle such requests<br>-- [[User:Yungtrizzle|Yungtrizzle]] ([[User talk:Yungtrizzle|talk]]) 06:25, 10 October 2012‎
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Moreover, when explain how to transit from the initscript, some referrals on how to move the old custom hooks in {{ic|/etc/rc.d/functions.d}} to be executed by systemd, should be made.<br>
 +
-- [[User:DarioP|DarioP]] ([[User talk:DarioP|talk]]) 12:42, 18 November 2012 (UTC)
  
:I talked about hibernation process with Lennart Poettering and he said that systemd-hibernate does only "echo disk > /sys/power/state" . As far as i can see, it works perfectly with tuxonice, since it seems it is now using the same userspace API as kernel hibernation; so it works even without hibernate-script installed (i use it without that package).  
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:I think it needs to be expanded indeed. As a newbie, it is easy to grasp the concept of "put your code in rc.local", and it's not clear how to transition. Specific questions, as also mentioned by DarioP: In what directory should I place my service definition? On the examples page, there are some files named with an at-sign ({{ic|@}}), what difference does that make? It would be very helpful to have a complete example for running a single command at boot (my example: {{ic|echo noop > /sys/block/sdb/queue/scheduler}}).
:-- [[User:Nierro|Nierro]] ([[User talk:Nierro|talk]]) 13:54, 24 October 2012
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:-- [[User:Fa2k|Fa2k]] ([[User talk:Fa2k|talk]]) 3 February 2013
  
:: what is the #Hibernation section all about anyway? It makes it sound like you need to use uswsusp to hibernate while it should work out of the box just fine. It doesn't explain at all why you would want to use uswsusp instead of the default command. I don't use hibernate nor do I know what uswsusp actually does, so what am I missing here? ::-- [[User:65kid|65kid]] ([[User talk:65kid|talk]]) 15:12, 25 October 2012 (UTC)
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== <s> Display manager fails to load with fast SSD </s> ==
  
:::I agree with 65kid. In fact, systemctl hibernate works out of the box (it only does an "echo disk...", nothing else). We don't need uswsusp at all. I tried with stock arch kernel and it works.
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I was having a problem with my display manager (LXDM) not loading on my laptop, which has a Sandisk Extreme SSD.
:::-- [[User:Nierro|Nierro]] ([[User talk:Nierro|talk]]) 11:24, 26 October 2012
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Xorg.log would show errors like "No screens found."
  
::::Then I suggest that - unless someone explains why you would want to use uswsusp - we remove this whole section because it is nothing but confusing. This article is already way too big to waste text on something that doesn't seem to make any sense.
+
I eventually figured out that the problem was that my computer was booting so fast that KMS didn't have enough time to kick in before X was started. I solved by adding the KMS driver (i915 in my case) to the initramfs.
::::-- [[User:65kid|65kid]] ([[User talk:65kid|talk]]) 10:10, 26 October 2012 (UTC)
+
  
::::: I went ahead and removed the irrelevant information from the page, moving it to [[Uswsusp]]. I also added a note pointing readers there if they want to use another backend for suspending or hibernating.
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Just a tip for SSD users, not sure if it should be added to the page or not.<br> --[[User:Steev|Steev]] ([[User talk:Steev|talk]]) 16:59, 2 September 2012 (UTC)
:::::-- [[User:Ifaigios|Ifaigios]] ([[User talk:Ifaigios|talk]]) 18:16, 26 October 2012 (UTC)
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:This is a general problem that needs to be solved in the display manager. GDM already implements the bits for the [http://cgit.freedesktop.org/systemd/systemd/commit/?id=f1a8e221ecacea23 CanGraphical] flag.
 +
:-- [[User:Falconindy|Falconindy]] ([[User talk:Falconindy|talk]]) 21:34, 2 September 2012 (UTC)
  
:::::: Hey [[User:Nierro|Nierro]], do {{ic|systemctl hibernate}} and {{ic|systemctl suspend}} really do different things on your box? In my setup (linux-pf, systemd 195-2), if I do the latter, my box is also in suspend mode, meaning that my power button is glowing on and off and I don't see grub after pressing the power button again but are back to my desktop almost immediately. To me, it rather seems as if {{ic|systemctl hibernate}} goes into hybrid mode?
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== <s> Should we add a note about CUPS under 'Transitioning from initscripts to systemd'? </s> ==
::::::-- [[User:Jakobh|jakobh]] [[User talk:Jakobh|✉]]  10:07, 29 October 2012 (UTC)
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Are there any more sockets that change?
  
:::::: Got an answer to the question on the systemd mailing list now: [http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/systemd-devel/2012-October/007245.html Link]
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Copied from the CUPS wiki:
::::::-- [[User:Jakobh|jakobh]] [[User talk:Jakobh|✉]]  17:56, 30 October 2012 (UTC)
+
  
== <s>Removing rc.local</s> ==
+
...
  
It isn't clear how to get rid of rc.local.  It would be useful to include this statement from the forum discussion in moving from a mixed system to a pure system:
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Systemd uses a different CUPS socket file located at:
  
Go through {{ic|/etc/rc.local}} and {{ic|/etc/rc.local.shutdown}} and turn them into service files (or, if you intend to keep them as they are, copy {{ic|/usr/lib/systemd/system/rc-local{,.shutdown}.service}} to {{ic|/etc/systemd/system/}}).<br>--‎ [[User:Myshkin|Myshkin]] ([[User talk:Myshkin|talk]]) 00:21, 13 Oct 2012
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/usr/lib/systemd/system/cups.socket
* I added a new section [[Systemd#.2Fetc.2Frc.local_emulation_for_systemd]] that covers how to emulate {{ic|/etc/rc.local}} in a pure systemd environment. Closing.
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:-- [[User:Jstjohn|Jstjohn]] ([[User talk:Jstjohn|talk]]) 21:04, 30 October 2012 (UTC)
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== <s>Replacing ConsoleKit with systemd-logind -> networkmanager</s> ==
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The default CUPS socket file is located at:
  
As of {{pkg|networkmanager}} 0.9.6.0-2 in [extra] we do no more have to recompile it with systemd support from [[ABS]], is this right? So the note should be upgraded.
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/var/run/cups/cups.sock
Am i missing anything?<br> -- [[User:Nierro|Nierro]] ([[User talk:Nierro|talk]]) 09:31, 15 October 2012
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: 0.9.6.0-2 in [extra] was compiled on 2012-09-19 and the change to systemd was on 2012-09-29, so as far as I can see, it still needs to be recompiled. https://projects.archlinux.org/svntogit/packages.git/commit/trunk?h=packages/networkmanager&id=c34580e6e35b9e87f7dc27f360507143d4fd9106
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Edit {{ic|/etc/cups/cupsd.conf}} and {{ic|/etc/cups/client.conf}} as root to use the systemd socket instead of the default.  Make sure to restart CUPS when you are done:
:-- [[User:65kid|65kid]] ([[User talk:65kid|talk]]) 20:00, 15 October 2012 (UTC)
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::Damn, you're right. I did not see that pkgrel=3 while we are still using -2. Sorry, it means i'm still using my recompiled package, while i thought i was using the [extra] one.
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# systemctl restart cups
::-- [[User:Nierro|Nierro]] ([[User talk:Nierro|talk]]) 16:35, 15 October 2012
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:::{{pkg|networkmanager}} 0.9.6.4-1 was just pushed to [extra]. NetworkManager does not have to be recompiled anymore. Closing.
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...
:::-- [[User:Jstjohn|Jstjohn]] ([[User talk:Jstjohn|talk]]) 00:13, 31 October 2012 (UTC)
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<br>
 +
-- [[User:JKAbrams|JKAbrams]] 5 November 2012
 +
:This sounds more like a {{pkg|cups}} packaging bug that should just be fixed.
 +
:-- [[User:Jstjohn|Jstjohn]] ([[User talk:Jstjohn|talk]]) 01:11, 8 November 2012 (UTC)
 +
::It sounds like someone who doesn't have a clue about systemd. That cups.socket file is a systemd unit file of type socket, which contains the location of the socket file for CUPS (and that is still /var/run/cups/cups.sock).
 +
::[[User:Raynman|Raynman]] ([[User talk:Raynman|talk]]) 22:49, 9 November 2012 (UTC)
 +
::: Close. [[CUPS]] page already fixed this issue. -- [[User:Fengchao|Fengchao]] ([[User talk:Fengchao|talk]]) 08:19, 18 February 2013 (UTC)
  
== video group is still needed! ==
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== Systemd defaults / to rshared, gotcha  ==
  
"Adding your user to groups (optical, audio, scanner, ...) is not necessary for most use cases with systemd. The groups can even cause some functionality to break." ([[Systemd#Supplementary_information]])
+
Still reading up on this, so I'm not 100% solid but I discovered during the systemd transition that it defaults the / mount to rshared (see [http://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/filesystems/sharedsubtree.txt Shared subtree] for definitions).  Excerpted from core/mount-setup.c in systemd github: {{bc|/* Mark the root directory as shared in regards to mount
 +
* propagation. The kernel defaults to "private", but we think
 +
* it makes more sense to have a default of "shared" so that
 +
* nspawn and the container tools work out of the box. If
 +
* specific setups need other settings they can reset the
 +
* propagation mode to private if needed. */
 +
if (detect_container(NULL) <&#61; 0)
 +
        if (mount(NULL, "/", NULL, MS_REC&#124;MS_SHARED, NULL) < 0)
 +
                log_warning("Failed to set up the root directory for shared mount propagation: %m");}}
 +
This means that all bind mounts made through fstab will default to shared behavior, not private.  For those users who depend on non-recursive bind mounts, this can be a very big gotcha (as the mount propagation effectively nullifies the non-recursion).
 +
I think it should be at least noted under Filesystem Mounts, since fstab bind entries definitely may not preserve behavior across the systemd transition and there are definitely some systems that would fail to start up/operate properly due to this, perhaps even silently.
  
This statement might be too generic. For example, without the video group, mesa will use the llvm driver instead of the Gallium AMD driver in my laptop.<br>
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As a side note, for nested bind mounts this also results in multiplicative bloat of the mount table, depending on what kind of nesting structure
-- [[User:MSal|MSal]] ([[User_talk:MSal|talk]]) 22:07, 30 October 2012 (UTC)
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is used (it's actually relatively easy to construct a nesting sequence that makes 2^n mounts out of n mount calls).
  
: No, the statement is correct and you don't need the video group. see https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?pid=1183090#p1183090 [[User:65kid|65kid]] ([[User talk:65kid|talk]]) 14:05, 31 October 2012 (UTC)
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Still looking into good (and easy) configuration solutions.
  
== GNOME 3.6 issues inhibited commands ==
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[[User:Compgamer89|Compgamer89]] ([[User talk:Compgamer89|talk]]) 07:16, 4 December 2012 (UTC)
It seems that GNOME 3.6 now issues the necessary "inhibited" commands, at my system now doesn't suspend twice with the standard configuration anymore. However I'm not familiar enough with the whole concept to be absolutely sure, so I won't update the page itself. Maybe someone with more competence regarding the inhibited commands can confirm this and edit the page?<br>
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-- [[User:Johnpatcher|Johnpatcher]] ([[User_talk:Johnpatcher|talk]]) 00:34, 31 October 2012 (UTC)
+
  
 +
:You may find [http://cgit.freedesktop.org/systemd/systemd/commit/?id=b3ac5f8cb98757416d8660023d6564a7c411f0a0 this commit] useful. --[[User:David Strauss|David Strauss]] ([[User talk:David Strauss|talk]]) 22:58, 13 December 2012 (UTC)
  
== I think we should add a note about cups under 'Transitioning from initscripts to systemd' ==
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== <s>"Error: No space left on device" when trying to start/restart a service"</s> ==
Cups stops working after upgrading to systemd because the sockets are changed. Are there any more sockets that change?
+
  
Copied from the Cups wiki:
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This troubleshooting section was removed because it was "totally irrelevant. Why is this irrelevant?<br>
 +
--[[User:Skiguy0123|Skiguy0123]] ([[User talk:Skiguy0123|talk]]) 00:35, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
  
...
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:Because that error is caused by excessive inode usage, which has nothing to do with systemd.
 
+
:-- [[User:Jstjohn|Jstjohn]] ([[User talk:Jstjohn|talk]]) 23:24, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
Systemd uses a different cups socket file located at:
+
 
+
'''/usr/lib/systemd/system/cups.socket'''
+
 
+
The default cups socket file is located at:
+
 
+
'''/var/run/cups/cups.sock'''
+
 
+
Edit '''/etc/cups/cupsd.conf''' and '''/etc/cups/client.conf''' as root to use the Systemd socket instead of the default.  Make sure to restart CUPS when you are done:
+
 
+
# systemctl restart cups
+
 
+
...
+
  
[[User:JKAbrams|JKAbrams]] 5 November 2012
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::Closing.
 +
::-- [[User:Jstjohn|Jstjohn]] ([[User talk:Jstjohn|talk]]) 22:08, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

Revision as of 11:57, 17 March 2013

Initscripts emulation

Should the section "writing a custom .service" be expanded?

I think so.. as long as I got, this is necessary to run self-made scripts during the boot process, but this is not clear and the structure of the files is not well presented.

Moreover, when explain how to transit from the initscript, some referrals on how to move the old custom hooks in /etc/rc.d/functions.d to be executed by systemd, should be made.
-- DarioP (talk) 12:42, 18 November 2012 (UTC)

I think it needs to be expanded indeed. As a newbie, it is easy to grasp the concept of "put your code in rc.local", and it's not clear how to transition. Specific questions, as also mentioned by DarioP: In what directory should I place my service definition? On the examples page, there are some files named with an at-sign (@), what difference does that make? It would be very helpful to have a complete example for running a single command at boot (my example: echo noop > /sys/block/sdb/queue/scheduler).
-- Fa2k (talk) 3 February 2013

Display manager fails to load with fast SSD

I was having a problem with my display manager (LXDM) not loading on my laptop, which has a Sandisk Extreme SSD. Xorg.log would show errors like "No screens found."

I eventually figured out that the problem was that my computer was booting so fast that KMS didn't have enough time to kick in before X was started. I solved by adding the KMS driver (i915 in my case) to the initramfs.

Just a tip for SSD users, not sure if it should be added to the page or not.
--Steev (talk) 16:59, 2 September 2012 (UTC)

This is a general problem that needs to be solved in the display manager. GDM already implements the bits for the CanGraphical flag.
-- Falconindy (talk) 21:34, 2 September 2012 (UTC)

Should we add a note about CUPS under 'Transitioning from initscripts to systemd'?

Are there any more sockets that change?

Copied from the CUPS wiki:

...

Systemd uses a different CUPS socket file located at:

/usr/lib/systemd/system/cups.socket

The default CUPS socket file is located at:

/var/run/cups/cups.sock

Edit /etc/cups/cupsd.conf and /etc/cups/client.conf as root to use the systemd socket instead of the default. Make sure to restart CUPS when you are done:

# systemctl restart cups

...
-- JKAbrams 5 November 2012

This sounds more like a cups packaging bug that should just be fixed.
-- Jstjohn (talk) 01:11, 8 November 2012 (UTC)
It sounds like someone who doesn't have a clue about systemd. That cups.socket file is a systemd unit file of type socket, which contains the location of the socket file for CUPS (and that is still /var/run/cups/cups.sock).
Raynman (talk) 22:49, 9 November 2012 (UTC)
Close. CUPS page already fixed this issue. -- Fengchao (talk) 08:19, 18 February 2013 (UTC)

Systemd defaults / to rshared, gotcha

Still reading up on this, so I'm not 100% solid but I discovered during the systemd transition that it defaults the / mount to rshared (see Shared subtree for definitions). Excerpted from core/mount-setup.c in systemd github:
/* Mark the root directory as shared in regards to mount
 * propagation. The kernel defaults to "private", but we think
 * it makes more sense to have a default of "shared" so that
 * nspawn and the container tools work out of the box. If
 * specific setups need other settings they can reset the
 * propagation mode to private if needed. */
if (detect_container(NULL) <= 0)
        if (mount(NULL, "/", NULL, MS_REC|MS_SHARED, NULL) < 0)
                log_warning("Failed to set up the root directory for shared mount propagation: %m");

This means that all bind mounts made through fstab will default to shared behavior, not private. For those users who depend on non-recursive bind mounts, this can be a very big gotcha (as the mount propagation effectively nullifies the non-recursion). I think it should be at least noted under Filesystem Mounts, since fstab bind entries definitely may not preserve behavior across the systemd transition and there are definitely some systems that would fail to start up/operate properly due to this, perhaps even silently.

As a side note, for nested bind mounts this also results in multiplicative bloat of the mount table, depending on what kind of nesting structure is used (it's actually relatively easy to construct a nesting sequence that makes 2^n mounts out of n mount calls).

Still looking into good (and easy) configuration solutions.

Compgamer89 (talk) 07:16, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

You may find this commit useful. --David Strauss (talk) 22:58, 13 December 2012 (UTC)

"Error: No space left on device" when trying to start/restart a service"

This troubleshooting section was removed because it was "totally irrelevant. Why is this irrelevant?
--Skiguy0123 (talk) 00:35, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

Because that error is caused by excessive inode usage, which has nothing to do with systemd.
-- Jstjohn (talk) 23:24, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
Closing.
-- Jstjohn (talk) 22:08, 15 February 2013 (UTC)