Difference between revisions of "Talk:Systemd"

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== Display manager fails to load with fast SSD ==
+
== Initscripts emulation ==
  
I was having a problem with my display manager (LXDM) not loading on my laptop, which has a Sandisk Extreme SSD.
+
Hi, I pushed the sysvinit rc.local facility to systemd.
Xorg.log would show errors like "No screens found."
+
  
I eventually figured out that the problem was that my computer was booting so fast that KMS didn't have enough time to kick in before X was started. I solved by adding the KMS driver (i915 in my case) to the initramfs.
+
# cat /etc/systemd/system/multi-user.target.wants/rc-local.service
 +
[Unit]
 +
Description=/etc/rc.local Compatibility
 +
ConditionFileIsExecutable=/etc/rc.local
 +
[Service]
 +
Type=oneshot
 +
ExecStart=/usr/bin/bash /etc/rc.local
 +
TimeoutSec=0
 +
StandardInput=tty
 +
RemainAfterExit=yes
  
Just a tip for SSD users, not sure if it should be added to the page or not.<br> --[[User:Steev|Steev]] ([[User talk:Steev|talk]]) 16:59, 2 September 2012 (UTC)
+
The rc.local script displays (important) informations on the console and expects a validation with the return key.
:This is a general problem that needs to be solved in the display manager. GDM already implements the bits for the [http://cgit.freedesktop.org/systemd/systemd/commit/?id=f1a8e221ecacea23 CanGraphical] flag.
+
:-- [[User:Falconindy|Falconindy]] ([[User talk:Falconindy|talk]]) 21:34, 2 September 2012 (UTC)
+
  
== <s> Hibernation with systemd </s> ==
+
# cat /etc/rc.local
 +
#!/bin/bash
 +
echo IMPORTANT INFORMATIONS
 +
read -s key
  
The hibernation section should be considered a hack since systemd does not directly handle the backend that handles power management. Systemd uses the Upower interface to handle such requests<br>-- [[User:Yungtrizzle|Yungtrizzle]] ([[User talk:Yungtrizzle|talk]]) 06:25, 10 October 2012‎
+
The informations are well displayed on console but the graphic manager starts before the keyboard confirmation...
  
:I talked about hibernation process with Lennart Poettering and he said that systemd-hibernate does only "echo disk > /sys/power/state" . As far as i can see, it works perfectly with tuxonice, since it seems it is now using the same userspace API as kernel hibernation; so it works even without hibernate-script installed (i use it without that package).  
+
Note that tty1 is disabled.
:-- [[User:Nierro|Nierro]] ([[User talk:Nierro|talk]]) 13:54, 24 October 2012
+
# ll /etc/systemd/system/getty.target.wants/
 +
total 0
 +
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root  0 17 mars  12:52 getty@tty1.service
 +
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 38  2 sept.  2012 getty@tty2.service -> /usr/lib/systemd/system/getty@.service
 +
  -rw-r--r-- 1 root root  0 17 mars  12:17 getty@tty4.service
 +
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root  0 17 mars  12:17 getty@tty5.service
 +
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root  0 17 mars  12:17 getty@tty6.service
  
:: what is the #Hibernation section all about anyway? It makes it sound like you need to use uswsusp to hibernate while it should work out of the box just fine. It doesn't explain at all why you would want to use uswsusp instead of the default command. I don't use hibernate nor do I know what uswsusp actually does, so what am I missing here?  
+
How can I start the graphic manager after the keyboard confirmation? <br>
::-- [[User:65kid|65kid]] ([[User talk:65kid|talk]]) 15:12, 25 October 2012 (UTC)
+
-- [[User:Lacsap|Lacsap]], 18 March 2013
  
:::I agree with 65kid. In fact, systemctl hibernate works out of the box (it only does an "echo disk...", nothing else). We don't need uswsusp at all. I tried with stock arch kernel and it works.
+
== Should the section "writing a custom .service" be expanded? ==
:::-- [[User:Nierro|Nierro]] ([[User talk:Nierro|talk]]) 11:24, 26 October 2012
+
  
::::Then I suggest that - unless someone explains why you would want to use uswsusp - we remove this whole section because it is nothing but confusing. This article is already way too big to waste text on something that doesn't seem to make any sense.
+
I think so.. as long as I got, this is necessary to run self-made scripts during the boot process, but this is not clear and the structure of the files is not well presented.
::::-- [[User:65kid|65kid]] ([[User talk:65kid|talk]]) 10:10, 26 October 2012 (UTC)
+
  
::::: I went ahead and removed the irrelevant information from the page, moving it to [[Uswsusp]]. I also added a note pointing readers there if they want to use another backend for suspending or hibernating.
+
Moreover, when explain how to transit from the initscript, some referrals on how to move the old custom hooks in {{ic|/etc/rc.d/functions.d}} to be executed by systemd, should be made.<br>
:::::-- [[User:Ifaigios|Ifaigios]] ([[User talk:Ifaigios|talk]]) 18:16, 26 October 2012 (UTC)
+
-- [[User:DarioP|DarioP]] ([[User talk:DarioP|talk]]) 12:42, 18 November 2012 (UTC)
  
:::::: Hey [[User:Nierro|Nierro]], do {{ic|systemctl hibernate}} and {{ic|systemctl suspend}} really do different things on your box? In my setup (linux-pf, systemd 195-2), if I do the latter, my box is also in suspend mode, meaning that my power button is glowing on and off and I don't see grub after pressing the power button again but are back to my desktop almost immediately. To me, it rather seems as if {{ic|systemctl hibernate}} goes into hybrid mode?
+
:I think it needs to be expanded indeed. As a newbie, it is easy to grasp the concept of "put your code in rc.local", and it's not clear how to transition. Specific questions, as also mentioned by DarioP: In what directory should I place my service definition? On the examples page, there are some files named with an at-sign ({{ic|@}}), what difference does that make? It would be very helpful to have a complete example for running a single command at boot (my example: {{ic|echo noop > /sys/block/sdb/queue/scheduler}}).
::::::-- [[User:Jakobh|jakobh]] [[User talk:Jakobh|]] 10:07, 29 October 2012 (UTC)
+
:-- [[User:Fa2k|Fa2k]] ([[User talk:Fa2k|talk]]) 3 February 2013
  
:::::: Got an answer to the question on the systemd mailing list now: [http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/systemd-devel/2012-October/007245.html Link]
+
== Systemd defaults / to rshared, gotcha ==
::::::-- [[User:Jakobh|jakobh]] [[User talk:Jakobh|✉]] 17:56, 30 October 2012 (UTC)
+
  
== <s> GNOME 3.6 issues inhibited commands </s> ==
+
Still reading up on this, so I'm not 100% solid but I discovered during the systemd transition that it defaults the / mount to rshared (see [http://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/filesystems/sharedsubtree.txt Shared subtree] for definitions).  Excerpted from core/mount-setup.c in systemd github: {{bc|/* Mark the root directory as shared in regards to mount
It seems that GNOME 3.6 now issues the necessary "inhibited" commands, at my system now doesn't suspend twice with the standard configuration anymore. However I'm not familiar enough with the whole concept to be absolutely sure, so I won't update the page itself. Maybe someone with more competence regarding the inhibited commands can confirm this and edit the page?<br>
+
* propagation. The kernel defaults to "private", but we think
-- [[User:Johnpatcher|Johnpatcher]] ([[User_talk:Johnpatcher|talk]]) 00:34, 31 October 2012 (UTC)
+
* it makes more sense to have a default of "shared" so that
: Inhibited note is added. Close. -- [[User:Fengchao|Fengchao]] ([[User talk:Fengchao|talk]]) 01:42, 12 November 2012 (UTC)
+
* nspawn and the container tools work out of the box. If
 +
* specific setups need other settings they can reset the
 +
* propagation mode to private if needed. */
 +
if (detect_container(NULL) <&#61; 0)
 +
        if (mount(NULL, "/", NULL, MS_REC&#124;MS_SHARED, NULL) < 0)
 +
                log_warning("Failed to set up the root directory for shared mount propagation: %m");}}
 +
This means that all bind mounts made through fstab will default to shared behavior, not private.  For those users who depend on non-recursive bind mounts, this can be a very big gotcha (as the mount propagation effectively nullifies the non-recursion).
 +
I think it should be at least noted under Filesystem Mounts, since fstab bind entries definitely may not preserve behavior across the systemd transition and there are definitely some systems that would fail to start up/operate properly due to this, perhaps even silently.
  
== Should we add a note about CUPS under 'Transitioning from initscripts to systemd'? ==
+
As a side note, for nested bind mounts this also results in multiplicative bloat of the mount table, depending on what kind of nesting structure
Are there any more sockets that change?
+
is used (it's actually relatively easy to construct a nesting sequence that makes 2^n mounts out of n mount calls).
  
Copied from the CUPS wiki:
+
Still looking into good (and easy) configuration solutions.
  
...
+
[[User:Compgamer89|Compgamer89]] ([[User talk:Compgamer89|talk]]) 07:16, 4 December 2012 (UTC)
  
Systemd uses a different CUPS socket file located at:
+
:You may find [http://cgit.freedesktop.org/systemd/systemd/commit/?id=b3ac5f8cb98757416d8660023d6564a7c411f0a0 this commit] useful. --[[User:David Strauss|David Strauss]] ([[User talk:David Strauss|talk]]) 22:58, 13 December 2012 (UTC)
  
/usr/lib/systemd/system/cups.socket
+
==systemd no longer supports initscripts==
 +
http://cgit.freedesktop.org/systemd/systemd/commit/?id=53d05b44f17db67d644069600e4b5bbca88d21e7 <br>
 +
-- [[User:D garbage|D garbage]]
  
The default CUPS socket file is located at:
+
: Please add your signature next time by typing four tildes ({{ic|<nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>}})
 +
: Anyway, I think it may be worth considering to remove all initscripts related sections. Initscripts has been unsupported for almost half a year now, whoever still hasn't switched is screwed anyway. About time this article gets a little shorter. Other opinions?
 +
:-- [[User:65kid|65kid]] ([[User talk:65kid|talk]]) 10:16, 24 March 2013 (UTC)
  
/var/run/cups/cups.sock
+
::Considering that, on multiple occasions, I've seen people come into the #archlinux channel on IRC and state that they haven't updated their systems for almost a year, I think we should keep this info in the wiki for a couple more months at least.
 +
::-- [[User:Jstjohn|Jstjohn]] ([[User talk:Jstjohn|talk]]) 19:53, 24 March 2013 (UTC)
  
Edit {{ic|/etc/cups/cupsd.conf}} and {{ic|/etc/cups/client.conf}} as root to use the systemd socket instead of the default. Make sure to restart CUPS when you are done:
+
:::To clarify what I said previously, I mean that we should keep the "migrating from initscripts to systemd" information around for a while. I have no problem with removing information about initscripts that is not in the context of migrating to systemd.
 +
:::-- [[User:Jstjohn|Jstjohn]] ([[User talk:Jstjohn|talk]]) 18:39, 22 April 2013 (UTC)
  
# systemctl restart cups
+
==Duplication of content in Native configuration section==
 +
I don't remember if this topic has already been discussed here, but it seems to me that [[systemd#Native configuration]] is duplicating information that IMO better belongs to other articles:
 +
*<s>[[systemd#Hostname]] and [[Network Configuration#Set the hostname]]</s>
 +
*<s>[[systemd#Locale]] and [[Locale]] ([[Locale]] is not yet mentioning ''localectl'' though)</s>
 +
*[[systemd#Virtual console]] and [[KEYMAP]] ([[KEYMAP]] is not yet mentioning ''localectl'' though)
 +
*<s>[[systemd#Time zone]] and [[Time#Time Zone]]</s>
 +
*[[systemd#Hardware clock]] and [[Time]] (this would be a good chance to update [[Time]])
 +
*[[systemd#Kernel modules]] and [[Kernel modules]]
 +
*[[systemd#Automount]] and [[fstab]]
 +
*[[systemd#LVM]] and [[LVM]]
  
...
+
I would suggest removing all these sections or replacing them with links to the reported articles, possibly merging any information that those articles are missing.
<br>
+
 
-- [[User:JKAbrams|JKAbrams]] 5 November 2012
+
-- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 16:16, 13 April 2013 (UTC)
:This sounds more like a {{pkg|cups}} packaging bug that should just be fixed.
+
: +1 for move them out. They are in a central page because at that time, initscripts is the only init supported. Now when a user want to know how to set up LVM, [[LVM]] is the natual target. Very few of them will ever goto [[Systemd]] and go to LVM section. -- [[User:Fengchao|Fengchao]] ([[User talk:Fengchao|talk]]) 12:52, 14 April 2013 (UTC)
:-- [[User:Jstjohn|Jstjohn]] ([[User talk:Jstjohn|talk]]) 01:11, 8 November 2012 (UTC)
+
::Thanks, started with [[systemd#Hostname]], any help will be appreciated of course, I think there are also other sections that can be moved out. -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 11:15, 15 April 2013 (UTC)
::It sounds like someone who doesn't have a clue about systemd. That cups.socket file is a systemd unit file of type socket, which contains the location of the socket file for CUPS (and that is still /var/run/cups/cups.sock).
+
 
::[[User:Raynman|Raynman]] ([[User talk:Raynman|talk]]) 22:49, 9 November 2012 (UTC)
+
==Section on Suspend/Resume Service Files==
 +
I have the slight suspicion that the service files posted in the section [[Systemd#Suspend.2Fresume_service_files]] might not work. Has anybody tried them or is actually using them? <br>
 +
-- [[User:Jakobh|jakobh]] [[User talk:Jakobh|✉]]  03:12, 10 May 2013 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
==Section "Editing provided unit files"==
 +
The Section [[Systemd#Editing_provided_unit_files]] says that drop in configuration files should be placed in {{ic|/etc/systemd/system}} which goes in line with where all the other custom service files are put in. However, the [http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/systemd-devel/2013-March/009496.html systemd 198 announcement] says they should be put in {{ic|/etc/systemd/systemd}}. Is that relevant/does it make a difference? This place is also repeated in the [http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/systemd-devel/2013-April/010274.html systemd 201 announcement]. I don't get them recognised in any of these two places at the moment, but that's a different story... <br>
 +
-- [[User:Jakobh|jakobh]] [[User talk:Jakobh|✉]]  11:54, 10 May 2013 (UTC)
 +
: {{ic|/etc/systemd/systemd}} is simply a typo, this directory doesn't exist and doesn't have any relevance.
 +
:-- [[User:65kid|65kid]] ([[User talk:65kid|talk]]) 17:37, 10 May 2013 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
== systemd 204 and /bin/systemd ==
 +
* with {{pkg|systemd}} 204, the {{ic|/bin/systemd}} symlink is not more installed; while this is correctly documented on this wiki page and warned in post-install message, this warning can be easily missed (my xp :-/), and the received message at the following boot is very little helpful
 +
* the situation can be very disturbing for a one-PC owner, and quite disruptive for newbies
 +
* may I suggest this change should be more explicitly warned, maybe with a flag message on the Arch Linux home page
 +
-- [[User:Kra64|Kra64]] ([[User talk:Kra64|talk]]) 09:30, 13 May 2013 (UTC)
 +
:From experience, Archers tend to forget to check the front page and the info posted there goes unnoticed, thus it makes sense to use just a post-install message. Keeping your system functional boils down to doing certain things in certain order. There's no way to avoid breakage if you're not serious about updating often, reading pacman's output, dealing with .pacnew files etc.
 +
:Keeping a liveCD / liveUSB on hand in case something breaks and you need to repair your system should be easy enough.
 +
:-- [[User:Karol|Karol]] ([[User talk:Karol|talk]]) 09:39, 13 May 2013 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
:# If you miss a post-install message, that's your own fault.
 +
:# That symlink was only used for the migration to systemd. Once you move over, you don't need it anymore.
 +
:# Anyone that's installed in the last 7 months would already have {{pkg|systemd-sysvcompat}} installed, so this symlink was meaningless to them.
 +
:# The Wiki has said to use {{ic|/usr/lib/systemd/systemd}} for a long time now.
 +
:# What does this have to to with the systemd Wiki page? This talk page is to discuss changes to the Wiki page, not general gripes or suggestions about a package.
 +
:All together, this change was very very minor and shouldn't have adversely affected anyone who was paying attention at all.
 +
:--[[User:Scimmia|Scimmia]] ([[User talk:Scimmia|talk]]) 11:58, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

Revision as of 12:11, 13 May 2013

Initscripts emulation

Hi, I pushed the sysvinit rc.local facility to systemd.

# cat /etc/systemd/system/multi-user.target.wants/rc-local.service 
[Unit]
Description=/etc/rc.local Compatibility
ConditionFileIsExecutable=/etc/rc.local
[Service]
Type=oneshot
ExecStart=/usr/bin/bash /etc/rc.local
TimeoutSec=0
StandardInput=tty
RemainAfterExit=yes

The rc.local script displays (important) informations on the console and expects a validation with the return key.

# cat /etc/rc.local
#!/bin/bash
echo IMPORTANT INFORMATIONS
read -s key

The informations are well displayed on console but the graphic manager starts before the keyboard confirmation...

Note that tty1 is disabled.

# ll /etc/systemd/system/getty.target.wants/
total 0
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root  0 17 mars  12:52 getty@tty1.service
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 38  2 sept.  2012 getty@tty2.service -> /usr/lib/systemd/system/getty@.service
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root  0 17 mars  12:17 getty@tty4.service
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root  0 17 mars  12:17 getty@tty5.service
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root  0 17 mars  12:17 getty@tty6.service

How can I start the graphic manager after the keyboard confirmation?
-- Lacsap, 18 March 2013

Should the section "writing a custom .service" be expanded?

I think so.. as long as I got, this is necessary to run self-made scripts during the boot process, but this is not clear and the structure of the files is not well presented.

Moreover, when explain how to transit from the initscript, some referrals on how to move the old custom hooks in /etc/rc.d/functions.d to be executed by systemd, should be made.
-- DarioP (talk) 12:42, 18 November 2012 (UTC)

I think it needs to be expanded indeed. As a newbie, it is easy to grasp the concept of "put your code in rc.local", and it's not clear how to transition. Specific questions, as also mentioned by DarioP: In what directory should I place my service definition? On the examples page, there are some files named with an at-sign (@), what difference does that make? It would be very helpful to have a complete example for running a single command at boot (my example: echo noop > /sys/block/sdb/queue/scheduler).
-- Fa2k (talk) 3 February 2013

Systemd defaults / to rshared, gotcha

Still reading up on this, so I'm not 100% solid but I discovered during the systemd transition that it defaults the / mount to rshared (see Shared subtree for definitions). Excerpted from core/mount-setup.c in systemd github:
/* Mark the root directory as shared in regards to mount
 * propagation. The kernel defaults to "private", but we think
 * it makes more sense to have a default of "shared" so that
 * nspawn and the container tools work out of the box. If
 * specific setups need other settings they can reset the
 * propagation mode to private if needed. */
if (detect_container(NULL) <= 0)
        if (mount(NULL, "/", NULL, MS_REC|MS_SHARED, NULL) < 0)
                log_warning("Failed to set up the root directory for shared mount propagation: %m");

This means that all bind mounts made through fstab will default to shared behavior, not private. For those users who depend on non-recursive bind mounts, this can be a very big gotcha (as the mount propagation effectively nullifies the non-recursion). I think it should be at least noted under Filesystem Mounts, since fstab bind entries definitely may not preserve behavior across the systemd transition and there are definitely some systems that would fail to start up/operate properly due to this, perhaps even silently.

As a side note, for nested bind mounts this also results in multiplicative bloat of the mount table, depending on what kind of nesting structure is used (it's actually relatively easy to construct a nesting sequence that makes 2^n mounts out of n mount calls).

Still looking into good (and easy) configuration solutions.

Compgamer89 (talk) 07:16, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

You may find this commit useful. --David Strauss (talk) 22:58, 13 December 2012 (UTC)

systemd no longer supports initscripts

http://cgit.freedesktop.org/systemd/systemd/commit/?id=53d05b44f17db67d644069600e4b5bbca88d21e7
-- D garbage

Please add your signature next time by typing four tildes (~~~~)
Anyway, I think it may be worth considering to remove all initscripts related sections. Initscripts has been unsupported for almost half a year now, whoever still hasn't switched is screwed anyway. About time this article gets a little shorter. Other opinions?
-- 65kid (talk) 10:16, 24 March 2013 (UTC)
Considering that, on multiple occasions, I've seen people come into the #archlinux channel on IRC and state that they haven't updated their systems for almost a year, I think we should keep this info in the wiki for a couple more months at least.
-- Jstjohn (talk) 19:53, 24 March 2013 (UTC)
To clarify what I said previously, I mean that we should keep the "migrating from initscripts to systemd" information around for a while. I have no problem with removing information about initscripts that is not in the context of migrating to systemd.
-- Jstjohn (talk) 18:39, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

Duplication of content in Native configuration section

I don't remember if this topic has already been discussed here, but it seems to me that systemd#Native configuration is duplicating information that IMO better belongs to other articles:

I would suggest removing all these sections or replacing them with links to the reported articles, possibly merging any information that those articles are missing.

-- Kynikos (talk) 16:16, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

+1 for move them out. They are in a central page because at that time, initscripts is the only init supported. Now when a user want to know how to set up LVM, LVM is the natual target. Very few of them will ever goto Systemd and go to LVM section. -- Fengchao (talk) 12:52, 14 April 2013 (UTC)
Thanks, started with systemd#Hostname, any help will be appreciated of course, I think there are also other sections that can be moved out. -- Kynikos (talk) 11:15, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

Section on Suspend/Resume Service Files

I have the slight suspicion that the service files posted in the section Systemd#Suspend.2Fresume_service_files might not work. Has anybody tried them or is actually using them?
-- jakobh 03:12, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

Section "Editing provided unit files"

The Section Systemd#Editing_provided_unit_files says that drop in configuration files should be placed in /etc/systemd/system which goes in line with where all the other custom service files are put in. However, the systemd 198 announcement says they should be put in /etc/systemd/systemd. Is that relevant/does it make a difference? This place is also repeated in the systemd 201 announcement. I don't get them recognised in any of these two places at the moment, but that's a different story...
-- jakobh 11:54, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

/etc/systemd/systemd is simply a typo, this directory doesn't exist and doesn't have any relevance.
-- 65kid (talk) 17:37, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

systemd 204 and /bin/systemd

  • with systemd 204, the /bin/systemd symlink is not more installed; while this is correctly documented on this wiki page and warned in post-install message, this warning can be easily missed (my xp :-/), and the received message at the following boot is very little helpful
  • the situation can be very disturbing for a one-PC owner, and quite disruptive for newbies
  • may I suggest this change should be more explicitly warned, maybe with a flag message on the Arch Linux home page

-- Kra64 (talk) 09:30, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

From experience, Archers tend to forget to check the front page and the info posted there goes unnoticed, thus it makes sense to use just a post-install message. Keeping your system functional boils down to doing certain things in certain order. There's no way to avoid breakage if you're not serious about updating often, reading pacman's output, dealing with .pacnew files etc.
Keeping a liveCD / liveUSB on hand in case something breaks and you need to repair your system should be easy enough.
-- Karol (talk) 09:39, 13 May 2013 (UTC)
  1. If you miss a post-install message, that's your own fault.
  2. That symlink was only used for the migration to systemd. Once you move over, you don't need it anymore.
  3. Anyone that's installed in the last 7 months would already have systemd-sysvcompat installed, so this symlink was meaningless to them.
  4. The Wiki has said to use /usr/lib/systemd/systemd for a long time now.
  5. What does this have to to with the systemd Wiki page? This talk page is to discuss changes to the Wiki page, not general gripes or suggestions about a package.
All together, this change was very very minor and shouldn't have adversely affected anyone who was paying attention at all.
--Scimmia (talk) 11:58, 13 May 2013 (UTC)