Difference between revisions of "Talk:Table of contents"

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==ToC restructuring==
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== i18n standardization ==
I propose the following (major) changes to the ArchWiki category tree:
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Non-English categories should follow the naming scheme ''Title in English (Language)''. See [[Help:i18n]] for details. [[Template:i18n]] should be included on all category pages. Furthermore, all category titles should be appropriately capitalized (Like a Title).
 
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; <s>Removal of [[:Category:Pages sorted by type (English)]]</s>: Currently we distinguish between four types of articles: [[:Category:FAQs|FAQs]], [[:Category:General (English)|General]], [[:Category:Guidelines (English)|Guidelines]], and [[:Category:HOWTOs (English)|HOWTOs]]. I believe that the majority of FAQ articles should be merged into the main [[FAQ]]; the ''general'' category is not helpful in any way; almost all articles under ''guidelines'' deal with package management (see [[:Category:Package development]] instead); and every article is a HOWTO in the sense that it explains how to install/configure/etc. something (further, ArchWiki is moving away from the HOWTO style of writing (step 1, step 2, step 3...))
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; Flattening of the tree: The [[:Category:System administration]] and [[:Category:Desktop user's guide (English)]] categories are unnecessary and confusing. Consider '''Desktop user's guide''' -> '''[[:Category:Utilities (English)]]''' (utilities not used for system administration?) and '''System administration''' -> '''Software''' -> '''[[:Category:Display managers]]''' (display managers not used by desktop users?) Similarly, the [[:Category:Hardware (English)]] and [[:Category:Software]] categories can easily be eliminated. Categories that relate specifically to hardware can be renamed (e.g. '''Hardware''' -> '''[[:Category:Graphics]]''' can become '''Graphics hardware''').
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; i18n standardization: Non-English categories should follow the naming scheme ''Title in English (Language)''. See [[Help:i18n]] for details. [[Template:i18n]] should be included on all category pages. Furthermore, all category titles should be appropriately capitalized (Like a Title).
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Are there any objections? I will prepare an outline of my imagined category tree shortly.
 
Are there any objections? I will prepare an outline of my imagined category tree shortly.
  
 
-- [[User:Pointone|pointone]] 20:20, 10 May 2011 (EDT)
 
-- [[User:Pointone|pointone]] 20:20, 10 May 2011 (EDT)
:+1 for all. :-) Unfortunately I don't have much time and will have even less. -- [[User:Karol|Karol]] 20:33, 10 May 2011 (EDT)
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::I'm in favour of points 1 and 3 but basically against the systematic flattening of the tree, but it's just a matter of taste, and we are 2 vs 1 here, so I'll just shut up now :D -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] 09:21, 11 May 2011 (EDT)
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:How about using native category names with redirects to i18n named categories on category pages? --[[User:AlexanderR|AlexanderR]] ([[User talk:AlexanderR|talk]])
:::Phew! That was one mess of work! No longer do we distinguish between article ''topics'' and ''types''. I will propose changes to the tree regarding (2) in detail before committing to anything. -- [[User:Pointone|pointone]] 17:08, 10 June 2011 (EDT)
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::Actually I was thinking to propose the liberalization of titles for all pages (not only categories), but only '''after''' implementing [[Help_talk:I18n#.22Dummy.22_interlanguage_links_and_deprecation_of_Template:i18n]]. Please, until then let's stick with the current standard: we'll discuss this thing after that, there's already lots of stuff going on in that talk page :) -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 20:30, 8 June 2012 (UTC)
::::Very good job pointone, it has surely been worth the effort! -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] 10:24, 11 June 2011 (EDT)
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:::Done. Thank you for pointing to [[Help_talk:I18n]]. Good luck with i18n work! --[[User:AlexanderR|AlexanderR]] ([[User talk:AlexanderR|talk]])
  
 
===Capitalization===
 
===Capitalization===
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:I can easily solve this one with my bot, although it's not urgent. -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] 16:48, 23 April 2012 (EDT)
 
:I can easily solve this one with my bot, although it's not urgent. -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] 16:48, 23 April 2012 (EDT)
 
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:Maybe not so easily, since I'd need a dictionary of words that should be left lower-case. -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 20:51, 15 June 2012 (UTC)
==<s>Layout</s>==
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The layout of the ToC can be changed relatively easily, please share your opinions. -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] 06:56, 1 March 2012 (EST)
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:Update: now language suffixes are removed automatically, and the English table uses an unordered list (I've kept numbered lists for the other languages just for comparison, still waiting for more votes). -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] 13:11, 11 March 2012 (EDT)
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===<s>numbered list vs. bulleted list</s>===
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I propose to replace numbered list whth old bulleted list. I find the numbered list appears a little confusing. It cannot show the levels of categories clearly. A slightly better way is to use way like 1, 1.2, 1.2.3 (as in contents of articles). But I think the best way is using bulleted list, which is more fit with Arch's way of simplicity.
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--[[User:Skydiver|Skydiver]] 00:36, 29 February 2012 (EST)
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:An argument in favour of the numbered list is that it makes it easier to see where is the next sibling of a category with lots of children, since they have subsequent indexes (see for example [[:Category:Software]] and [[:Category:System recovery]] in the current table. -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] 05:09, 2 March 2012 (EST)
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::I like Skydiver's suggestion, and would vote for the sub-numbering system if it were possible. -- [[User:Pointone|pointone]] 19:16, 13 March 2012 (EDT)
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:::Well yes it'd be possible (the indices should be hardcoded instead of using # or *), but the result would be something like this:
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:::7. [[:Category:System administration|System administration]] (1)
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::::7.1. [[:Category:Accessibility|Accessibility]] (6)
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::::7.2. [[:Category:Audio/Video|Audio/Video]] (91)
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::::7.3. [[:Category:Development|Development]] (63)
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:::::7.3.1. [[:Category:Arch development|Arch development]] (48) (also in [[:Category:About Arch|About Arch]])
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::::::7.3.1.1. [[:Category:Licenses|Licenses]] (25)
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::::::7.3.1.2. [[:Category:Package development|Package development]] (59) (also in [[:Category:Package management|Package management]])
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::::::7.3.1.3. [[:Category:Pacman development|Pacman development]] (6)
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:::It looks a bit bloated to me, but of course there's no accounting for taste :) I've taken the liberty to move your vote to a new choice in the poll.
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:::-- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] 06:29, 14 March 2012 (EDT)
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::::To avoid clutter we can 1) flatten the tree somewhat as I have proposed above (and will continue with, once I can find some time...) and 2) limit the ToC display to 3 levels maximum. -- [[User:Pointone|pointone]] 13:11, 15 March 2012 (EDT)
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:::::1) You know I have some reserves about an indiscriminate flattening, however for example Software and Hardware could easily be made direct children of English, and System administration could probably be merged almost entirely with Software (we'd decrease the level of many categories by 1 this way); to sum up, I'd like to discuss possible flattening strategies case by case
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:::::2) As I've written in [[#"also in" links]], for me the ToC has mainly a maintenance purpose, so I'm against hiding content only for the sake of aesthetics ^^; IMO if we want to limit the depth of the tree in the ToC, it should be only the consequence of enforcing a rule to limit the depth in the actual category tree.
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:::::-- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] 08:20, 16 March 2012 (EDT)
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::::::The sub-numbered list is implemented since it had 2 admin votes and it was a 2nd choice for me and Skydiver :) Also note the use of &lt;small>. Currently only English uses it until we find a stable solution. Feedback welcome. -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] 11:55, 18 March 2012 (EDT)
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::::::One annoying bug is that links in definition lists lose the bold font weight, I'd like to submit a bug for that... Those who use Firebug or similar, just try to add {{ic|dd a {font-weight:bold;} }} to the style sheet and see how it looks much better. -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] 15:39, 18 March 2012 (EDT)
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::::::Of course a temporary workaround can be adding a left margin or padding to the first &lt;small> tag of each item in place of the colons (entries must be separated with blank lines). -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] 07:01, 19 March 2012 (EDT)
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:::::::I never meant to suggest ''indiscriminate'' flattening -- my primary concerns were with categories Software, Hardware, System administration, and Desktop user's guide. The latter has since been removed, and I agree with decreasing the levels of Software and Hardware and reorganizing System administration. I don't think we need to enforce a limit... let's see how it looks once this "flattening" is done. -- [[User:Pointone|pointone]] 23:05, 19 March 2012 (EDT)
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::::::::Uh sorry for misunderstanding, I thought your idea was to move almost all categories to first level ^^'
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::::::::Just to make it clear, I'm against the limit too, I mentioned it just as an option.
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::::::::What about the other formatting problems? Do you like the use of &lt;small>? Would you support a feature request for using bold also for links in definition lists?
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::::::::-- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] 08:41, 20 March 2012 (EDT)
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:::::::::I see this as a bug, actually -- link formatting should be consistent throughout! The current formatting with ''small'' looks great, otherwise. -- [[User:Pointone|pointone]] 10:08, 20 March 2012 (EDT)
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::::::::::Opened a bug report then: {{Bug|29021}}. Please vote. -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] 17:31, 20 March 2012 (EDT)
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:Poll is closed, once {{Bug|29021}} is fixed, all ToCs will switch to sub-numbering. -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] 07:17, 19 April 2012 (EDT)
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===<s>Page count or not</s>===
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Do you like seeing the page count for each category or not? -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] 06:56, 1 March 2012 (EST)
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:Poll is closed, page count is already displayed and that's definitive. -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] 10:52, 25 April 2012 (EDT)
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====<s>Poll</s>====
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;Display it
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: [[User:Thestinger|thestinger]] 00:43, 2 March 2012 (EST)
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: [[User:Skydiver|Skydiver]] 00:51, 2 March 2012 (EST)
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: [[User:Pointone|pointone]] 19:16, 13 March 2012 (EDT)
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: [[User:Fengchao|Fengchao]] 20:05, 1 March 2012 (EST)
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;Don't display it
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=="also in" links==
 
=="also in" links==
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Currently only Spanish, French, Italian and Portuguese have a translated "also in" string for categories with more than one parent, all the others are using the English wording. Please request new translations here. -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] 05:59, 12 March 2012 (EDT)
 
Currently only Spanish, French, Italian and Portuguese have a translated "also in" string for categories with more than one parent, all the others are using the English wording. Please request new translations here. -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] 05:59, 12 March 2012 (EDT)
  
== Flattening of the tree ==
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== Add Table of Contents link into left navigation panel  ==
=== <s> Move Networking and Development out </s> ===
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The further step I want to do is move Networking and Development out. Then software and system Administration can be merged by bot. So the structure will like:
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Sometime I want to visit this Table of Contents page. Right now I have to click to Main Page and then Click the link on the top. Why not add a link into navigation part on left page. It will be more visiable their. -- [[User:Fengchao|Fengchao]] ([[User talk:Fengchao|talk]]) 04:14, 21 June 2012 (UTC)
# About Arch
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# Hardware
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:Actually this seems a pretty cool idea to me! It's as easy as editing [[MediaWiki:Sidebar]]: what about putting the link in second place, right below the link to [[Main Page]]? -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 09:50, 23 June 2012 (UTC)
# Software
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# Networking
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# Development
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: I got no objection here. So I will make the change in next few days. -- [[User:Fengchao|Fengchao]] 23:27, 23 April 2012 (EDT)
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:: Done. -- [[User:Fengchao|Fengchao]] 00:59, 25 April 2012 (EDT)
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=== Change Software category ===
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:: That is my prefered location too. -- [[User:Fengchao|Fengchao]] ([[User talk:Fengchao|talk]]) 14:02, 24 June 2012 (UTC)
Technically every article is about "software", even those inside "Hardware" (drivers are software): based on what would remain in "Software" we should see if "Software" can be renamed to a more specific title, what do you think? -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] 03:54, 20 April 2012 (EDT)
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:I think the Software category is almost just as generic as the top-level English category. It could apply to pretty much everything in the wiki, so I don't think there would be any harm in just getting rid of it (but I'm fine with it staying too). [[User:Thestinger|thestinger]] 19:50, 20 April 2012 (EDT)
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:: Software is too generic and it contains too much contents even after Networking and Development is out which make the category hard to navigate. I plan to split pages mainly about up layer applications into [[:Category:Applications]]. Then the pages left seems to be mainly about "System components" such as boot loader, kernel, deamon, init, package manager, ABS, Desktop environment, window manager and so on. We can check whether they fit well into [[:Category:System Compontents]]. Right now I am starting to move Arch specific topic into [[:Category:About Arch]]. -- [[User:Fengchao|Fengchao]] 00:00, 21 April 2012 (EDT)
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::: Now Networking and Development become a top category of its own. The new proposal for next step here is:
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::: Split pages in [[:Category:Software]] and [[:Category:System administration]] into 2 parts by their difficulty:
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:::* [[:Category:Applications]]. It is the easy part. People with no Operation system knowledge can read them.
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:::* System Components. Pages there are more harder than Applications. To fully understand these pages, Operation system knowledge is needed. And after learning these pages, the reader will become a nerd of computer :).
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::: The steps to take:
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:::# Create a new category [[:Category:Applications]].
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:::# Move pages fit in [[:Category:Applications]] there.
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:::# Move pages left in [[:Category:Software]] into [[:Category:System administration]].
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:::# Discuss whether [[:Category:System administration]] should changed to other name such as [[:Category:System Components]].
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::: -- [[User:Fengchao|Fengchao]] 01:34, 25 April 2012 (EDT)
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::::It's an interesting approach, you can try it, the result will be better than the current situation in any case :) -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] 11:28, 25 April 2012 (EDT)
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::::Ah, by the way I can handle step 3 with my bot, in case there are many articles left there, just ask me ;) -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] 04:39, 26 April 2012 (EDT)
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== <s> Separate Arch specific topic from more general topic </s> ==
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:::Sounds good! A possible alternative would be to include the ToC on the Main Page itself. -- [[User:Pointone|pointone]] ([[User talk:Pointone|talk]]) 15:04, 24 June 2012 (UTC)
Now Software and hardware is moving out. The next step I want to take is move Arch specific topic into [[:Category:About Arch]]. Including:
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* ArchWiki
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* FAQs
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* Getting and installing Arch
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* Live Arch systems
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* Website Resources
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* Wiki Tools
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All articles in Archwiki should be related to Arch. But some of them only apply to Arch while others can be very useful for users of other distributions.
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::::For the moment I've added the link to the navigation pane (also for curiosity ^^ ), although I don't understand why our [[MediaWiki:Sidebar]] had been deleted (automatically with an update?) with a "No longer required" summary.
* Grouping Arch specific topic together,an Arch user can find info more easily.
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::::The idea of reorganizing the [[Main Page]] however is kind of interesting, it would be worth discussing it separately :) Maybe instead of adding the whole ToC we could add only some major categories, or create a section with featured articles...
* At the same time, other pages are more general, the info there can be used by non-Arch users with little adjustment, as little as using a different package management tool.
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::::-- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 10:56, 25 June 2012 (UTC)
* This step may not fit into "Flattening of the tree", but once it is done. We can move more category out of "Category : System administration" without mixing up the Tree.
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::::: Where to translate "Table of Contents" to other language ? I can not find it. -- [[User:Fengchao|Fengchao]] ([[User talk:Fengchao|talk]]) 02:11, 26 June 2012 (UTC)
* In my vision, "Category : System administration" may end up become "Category : Arch system maintenance" with Arch specific maintenance info.
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::::::I'll see what can be done, thanks for the report. -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 08:06, 26 June 2012 (UTC)
Any objections ? -- [[User:Fengchao|Fengchao]] 03:03, 19 April 2012 (EDT)
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:::::::We'd probably need to create and translate a system message: [[Special:AllMessages]] says ''"This is a list of system messages available in the MediaWiki namespace. Please visit [[mw:Localisation|MediaWiki Localisation]] and [https://translatewiki.net/ translatewiki.net] if you wish to contribute to the generic MediaWiki localisation."''. I don't have a clear idea of what we should do now, there's still the alternative of adding the ToC to the main page. -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 19:52, 29 June 2012 (UTC)
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::::::::I fount the page to change at last :) Please help edit [[MediaWiki:Sidebar/zh-cn]] and Change it to the following. Thanks.
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::::::::{{bc|<nowiki>* navigation
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** Main Page (简体中文)|mainpage-description
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** Table of Contents|内容目录
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** Getting_Involved_(简体中文)|portal
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** ArchWiki:News (简体中文)|currentevents
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** recentchanges-url|recentchanges
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** randompage-url|randompage
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** helppage|help
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* SEARCH
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* TOOLBOX
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* LANGUAGES</nowiki>
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}}
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:::::::: -- [[User:Fengchao|Fengchao]] ([[User talk:Fengchao|talk]]) 01:18, 26 December 2012 (UTC)
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:::::::::For some reason it doesn't seem to work, can you confirm? -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 15:04, 26 December 2012 (UTC)
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:::::::::: Yes, it does not work, so sad. -- [[User:Fengchao|Fengchao]] ([[User talk:Fengchao|talk]]) 00:47, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
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:::::::::::Right, I've restored the default message. If you're interested you can share your opinion in [[MediaWiki talk:Sidebar#Localization]]. -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 02:46, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
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:::::Currently there's a problem with the cache and the link to [[Table of Contents]] is visible only on a minority of pages: it should be visible when logged in, or by appending {{ic|1=?action=purge}} to the url when not logged in (see [[mw:Manual:Purge]]). I hope the cache will refresh automatically in the next days. -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 08:02, 26 June 2012 (UTC)
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::::::Apparently the cache doesn't refresh this feature, instead it refreshes it only as the pages are edited and saved (or just purged as shown above). -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 19:52, 29 June 2012 (UTC)
  
:I admit it sounds like a good idea indeed.
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== Remove [[:Category:Daemons and system services]] ==
:#One question could be about [[:Category:FAQs]], which contains [[TeX Live FAQ]]: if you want to put that category inside [[:Category:About Arch]], would you leave [[TeX Live FAQ]] only in [[:Category:TeX]]? (not necessarily a bad thing, I'm just asking).
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There are too many pages in [[:Category:Daemons and system services]] which make it harder to navigate. [[Daemons List]] has short descriptions which are much better than a category. Should we remove [[:Category:Daemons and system services]] and put pages their into other categories? -- [[User:Fengchao|Fengchao]] ([[User talk:Fengchao|talk]]) 06:04, 5 November 2012 (UTC)
:#About the possible [[:Category:Arch System Maintenance]], would you put it inside [[:Category:About Arch]]?
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:#I can move the members of [[:Category:System administration]] to [[:Category:Software]] with the bot (merging the 2 categories), are you interested?
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:In any case this is a big reorganization, I'd wait for more opinions before putting it into practice.
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:-- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] 18:13, 19 April 2012 (EDT)
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:: For 1. Sure. It is already done.
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:: For 2. Yes
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:: For 3. Automation can save me a lot of time.
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::: Done. Some left over category will be discussed case by case. -- [[User:Fengchao|Fengchao]] 23:27, 23 April 2012 (EDT)
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==<s>Merge [[:Category:Wiki Tools]] to [[:Category:ArchWiki]]</s>==
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:Well, you may be right, also because it's extremely unlikely that one first decides he needs a daemon/service (by visiting [[:Category:Daemons and system services]]) and only then thinks of the functionality it must provide (by choosing a daemon in [[:Category:Daemons and system services]]); the inverse is more natural, i.e. first think of the needed functionality (by navigating to the proper category using e.g. the [[Table of Contents]]), and then pick up the right application for the purpose (by choosing one in that particular category, be it a daemon or not).
There is only 3 articles in [[:Category:Wiki Tools]]  and all of the are ArchWiki related. Could we merge it to [[:Category:ArchWiki]]?
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:I think the problem can be extended to other categories, though, in fact here we're discussing whether Categories should only group articles by the ''provided functionality'' or ''purpose'', or they could also group them by the ''method'' used for providing that functionality or fulfilling that purpose. The difference can be subtle sometimes, but if we exclude the second possibility, other categories that could be deleted may be [[:Category:FAQs]], [[:Category:Dotfiles]], [[:Category:Scripts]].
-- [[User:Fengchao|Fengchao]] 05:04, 22 April 2012 (EDT)
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:More opinions are welcome :)
:Well, Emacs Mediawiki and Wiki Monkey are not ''strictly'' related to ArchWiki (ArchDocumentalist is indeed), maybe those articles may be categorized ''also'' under [[:Category:ArchWiki]], but [[:Category:Wiki Tools]] (without ArchDocumentalist) could be moved (or merged) to [[:Category:Software]]. -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] 06:13, 23 April 2012 (EDT)
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:-- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 07:01, 18 November 2012 (UTC)
:However there's at least one big distinguishing feature between the articles currently in [[:Category:ArchWiki]] and those in [[:Category:Wiki Tools]]: the former are tools (articles) that do reside on the wiki; the latter are external tools; I don't know if mixing them is very constructive. -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] 06:20, 23 April 2012 (EDT)
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:: Well, [[:Category:FAQs]] is already on my todo list :).  
::ArchDocumentalist should belong under [[:Category:ArchWiki]]; the others should be categorized like [[Mediawiki]] et al (under [[:Category:Web Server]] at the moment). -- [[User:Pointone|pointone]] 11:18, 23 April 2012 (EDT)
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::[[:Category:Dotfiles]] can be deleted or rename to [[:Category:Configuration Files]].
:::The fact is that [[Mediawiki]] is indeed run on a web server, Emacs Mediawiki and Wiki Monkey are not: they may fit [[:Category:Internet Applications]] much better IMHO, also taking into account that Emacs MediaWiki is already under [[:Category:Text editors]]. -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] 16:41, 23 April 2012 (EDT)
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::[[:Category:Scripts]] is sometime used as a dumping area of unnecessary long code. Some pages in it can be moved to other categories first. Then check again to see if it can be removed.
:::: I am convinced that [[:Category:Wiki Tools]] '''should not''' merged to [[:Category:ArchWiki]]. And +1 to make it a sub category of  [[:Category:Internet Applications]]. -- [[User:Fengchao|Fengchao]] 22:44, 23 April 2012 (EDT)
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::If no one oppose this idea. I will start with removing [[:Category:Daemons and system services]] .  
:::::I know I'm in a conflict of interests being the developer of Wiki Monkey, and my thought may not be objective in this case, so please ignore it if you think so :P Anyway, I didn't mean to make [[:Category:Wiki Tools]] a sub-category of [[:Category:Internet Applications]]; I was thinking more of categorizing each of its 3 members directly under existing categories:
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::--[[User:Fengchao|Fengchao]] ([[User talk:Fengchao|talk]]) 23:18, 19 November 2012 (UTC)
:::::*ArchDocumentalist may fit [[:Category:Scripts]] and/or [[:Category:Internet Applications]]
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:::::*Emacs Mediawiki is already under [[:Category:Text editors]] and may fit also [[:Category:Internet Applications]]
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:::::*Wiki Monkey may fit [[:Category:Internet Applications]]
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:::::Then, still in my opinion, the 3 articles could stay also in [[:Category:Wiki Tools]], which should be categorized ''only'' under [[:Category:ArchWiki]].
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:::::-- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] 11:49, 25 April 2012 (EDT)
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::::::*The author should have more weight on category of his tools. :) So Wiki Monkey moved to [[:Category:Internet Applications]].  
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::::::*Emacs Mediawiki which is a extension of Emacs fit quite well in [[:Category:Text editors]].
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::::::*But for the last ArchDocumentalist, I stand with pointone. It should go to [[:Category:ArchWiki]]. The reason:
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::::::Imaging there is a user looking for an Arch Wiki download tool. When looking at this table of content, what categroy will he first click ? [[:Category:ArchWiki]] will definitely have more chance than [[:Category:Scripts]] or [[:Category:Internet Applications]]. So let us re category the pages to make them more easy to find for normal user.
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::::::Yes, right now [[:Category:ArchWiki]] only contain pages reside on the wiki, but the general name can not keep other pages out.
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:::::: -- [[User:Fengchao|Fengchao]] 04:58, 27 April 2012 (UTC)
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:::::::Perfect, I've completed the job so we can close this discussion I guess. -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] 13:55, 27 April 2012 (UTC)
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Revision as of 02:46, 27 December 2012

i18n standardization

Non-English categories should follow the naming scheme Title in English (Language). See Help:i18n for details. Template:i18n should be included on all category pages. Furthermore, all category titles should be appropriately capitalized (Like a Title).

Are there any objections? I will prepare an outline of my imagined category tree shortly.

-- pointone 20:20, 10 May 2011 (EDT)

How about using native category names with redirects to i18n named categories on category pages? --AlexanderR (talk)
Actually I was thinking to propose the liberalization of titles for all pages (not only categories), but only after implementing Help_talk:I18n#.22Dummy.22_interlanguage_links_and_deprecation_of_Template:i18n. Please, until then let's stick with the current standard: we'll discuss this thing after that, there's already lots of stuff going on in that talk page :) -- Kynikos (talk) 20:30, 8 June 2012 (UTC)
Done. Thank you for pointing to Help_talk:I18n. Good luck with i18n work! --AlexanderR (talk)

Capitalization

[split from a previous discussion, now closed. -- Kynikos 16:48, 23 April 2012 (EDT)]

As I began sorting and standardizing the Spanish categories, I realized that many English categories have improper capitalization. These issues could probably more efficiently be dealt with simultaneously. --Emiralle 21:46, 10 September 2011 (EDT)

I can easily solve this one with my bot, although it's not urgent. -- Kynikos 16:48, 23 April 2012 (EDT)
Maybe not so easily, since I'd need a dictionary of words that should be left lower-case. -- Kynikos (talk) 20:51, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

"also in" links

Do you like seeing the "also in" links next to categories that have more than one parent? -- Kynikos 06:56, 1 March 2012 (EST)

Related discussion: Help talk:Style#Category pages - tree or otherwise? If we return to a tree structure, "also in" links would not exist. -- pointone 19:18, 13 March 2012 (EDT)
But maybe in that case displaying them would be even more important, as a means of detecting violations to the rule. -- Kynikos 08:27, 14 March 2012 (EDT)
Quite right. My vote is conditional upon the tree decision, then. If a tree structure is enforced, display it to detect violations. If we allow multiple categories, however, hide it to avoid clutter. -- pointone 13:04, 15 March 2012 (EDT)
Ah kk your position is perfectly clear. However I wouldn't consider the ToC only as a tool for end-users, I think it's also very useful for maintainers, in fact being able to spot multi-parent categories (be them allowed or not) gives a clearer idea of how the articles are structured.
Some ideas to reduce/avoid clutter:
(I'll probably implement this solution for the next update)
(for this option, place the mouse on the asterisk; we can use another symbol, like + ^ #  !)
-- Kynikos 07:06, 16 March 2012 (EDT)
The first idea is implemented currently with <small>. -- Kynikos 11:56, 18 March 2012 (EDT)

Poll

Display it
[vote with : ~~~~]
thestinger 00:48, 2 March 2012 (EST)
Skydiver 00:51, 2 March 2012 (EST)
Kynikos 05:09, 2 March 2012 (EST)
Don't display it
[vote with : ~~~~]
Fengchao 20:09, 1 March 2012 (EST)
pointone 19:18, 13 March 2012 (EDT)

"also in" translations

Currently only Spanish, French, Italian and Portuguese have a translated "also in" string for categories with more than one parent, all the others are using the English wording. Please request new translations here. -- Kynikos 05:59, 12 March 2012 (EDT)

Add Table of Contents link into left navigation panel

Sometime I want to visit this Table of Contents page. Right now I have to click to Main Page and then Click the link on the top. Why not add a link into navigation part on left page. It will be more visiable their. -- Fengchao (talk) 04:14, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

Actually this seems a pretty cool idea to me! It's as easy as editing MediaWiki:Sidebar: what about putting the link in second place, right below the link to Main Page? -- Kynikos (talk) 09:50, 23 June 2012 (UTC)
That is my prefered location too. -- Fengchao (talk) 14:02, 24 June 2012 (UTC)
Sounds good! A possible alternative would be to include the ToC on the Main Page itself. -- pointone (talk) 15:04, 24 June 2012 (UTC)
For the moment I've added the link to the navigation pane (also for curiosity ^^ ), although I don't understand why our MediaWiki:Sidebar had been deleted (automatically with an update?) with a "No longer required" summary.
The idea of reorganizing the Main Page however is kind of interesting, it would be worth discussing it separately :) Maybe instead of adding the whole ToC we could add only some major categories, or create a section with featured articles...
-- Kynikos (talk) 10:56, 25 June 2012 (UTC)
Where to translate "Table of Contents" to other language ? I can not find it. -- Fengchao (talk) 02:11, 26 June 2012 (UTC)
I'll see what can be done, thanks for the report. -- Kynikos (talk) 08:06, 26 June 2012 (UTC)
We'd probably need to create and translate a system message: Special:AllMessages says "This is a list of system messages available in the MediaWiki namespace. Please visit MediaWiki Localisation and translatewiki.net if you wish to contribute to the generic MediaWiki localisation.". I don't have a clear idea of what we should do now, there's still the alternative of adding the ToC to the main page. -- Kynikos (talk) 19:52, 29 June 2012 (UTC)
I fount the page to change at last :) Please help edit MediaWiki:Sidebar/zh-cn and Change it to the following. Thanks.
* navigation
** Main Page (简体中文)|mainpage-description
** Table of Contents|内容目录
** Getting_Involved_(简体中文)|portal
** ArchWiki:News (简体中文)|currentevents
** recentchanges-url|recentchanges
** randompage-url|randompage
** helppage|help
* SEARCH
* TOOLBOX
* LANGUAGES
-- Fengchao (talk) 01:18, 26 December 2012 (UTC)
For some reason it doesn't seem to work, can you confirm? -- Kynikos (talk) 15:04, 26 December 2012 (UTC)
Yes, it does not work, so sad. -- Fengchao (talk) 00:47, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
Right, I've restored the default message. If you're interested you can share your opinion in MediaWiki talk:Sidebar#Localization. -- Kynikos (talk) 02:46, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
Currently there's a problem with the cache and the link to Table of Contents is visible only on a minority of pages: it should be visible when logged in, or by appending ?action=purge to the url when not logged in (see mw:Manual:Purge). I hope the cache will refresh automatically in the next days. -- Kynikos (talk) 08:02, 26 June 2012 (UTC)
Apparently the cache doesn't refresh this feature, instead it refreshes it only as the pages are edited and saved (or just purged as shown above). -- Kynikos (talk) 19:52, 29 June 2012 (UTC)

Remove Category:Daemons and system services

There are too many pages in Category:Daemons and system services which make it harder to navigate. Daemons List has short descriptions which are much better than a category. Should we remove Category:Daemons and system services and put pages their into other categories? -- Fengchao (talk) 06:04, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

Well, you may be right, also because it's extremely unlikely that one first decides he needs a daemon/service (by visiting Category:Daemons and system services) and only then thinks of the functionality it must provide (by choosing a daemon in Category:Daemons and system services); the inverse is more natural, i.e. first think of the needed functionality (by navigating to the proper category using e.g. the Table of Contents), and then pick up the right application for the purpose (by choosing one in that particular category, be it a daemon or not).
I think the problem can be extended to other categories, though, in fact here we're discussing whether Categories should only group articles by the provided functionality or purpose, or they could also group them by the method used for providing that functionality or fulfilling that purpose. The difference can be subtle sometimes, but if we exclude the second possibility, other categories that could be deleted may be Category:FAQs, Category:Dotfiles, Category:Scripts.
More opinions are welcome :)
-- Kynikos (talk) 07:01, 18 November 2012 (UTC)
Well, Category:FAQs is already on my todo list :).
Category:Dotfiles can be deleted or rename to Category:Configuration Files.
Category:Scripts is sometime used as a dumping area of unnecessary long code. Some pages in it can be moved to other categories first. Then check again to see if it can be removed.
If no one oppose this idea. I will start with removing Category:Daemons and system services .
--Fengchao (talk) 23:18, 19 November 2012 (UTC)