Difference between revisions of "Talk:Table of contents"

From ArchWiki
Jump to: navigation, search
(Merge Category:Wiki Tools to Category:ArchWiki: rm closed discussion)
("also in" translations: re)
 
(68 intermediate revisions by 10 users not shown)
Line 1: Line 1:
==ToC restructuring==
+
== i18n standardization ==
I propose the following (major) changes to the ArchWiki category tree:
+
Non-English categories should follow the naming scheme ''Title in English (Language)''. See [[Help:i18n]] for details. [[Template:i18n]] should be included on all category pages. Furthermore, all category titles should be appropriately capitalized (Like a Title).
 
+
; <s>Removal of [[:Category:Pages sorted by type (English)]]</s>: Currently we distinguish between four types of articles: [[:Category:FAQs|FAQs]], [[:Category:General (English)|General]], [[:Category:Guidelines (English)|Guidelines]], and [[:Category:HOWTOs (English)|HOWTOs]]. I believe that the majority of FAQ articles should be merged into the main [[FAQ]]; the ''general'' category is not helpful in any way; almost all articles under ''guidelines'' deal with package management (see [[:Category:Package development]] instead); and every article is a HOWTO in the sense that it explains how to install/configure/etc. something (further, ArchWiki is moving away from the HOWTO style of writing (step 1, step 2, step 3...))
+
 
+
; Flattening of the tree: The [[:Category:System administration]] and [[:Category:Desktop user's guide (English)]] categories are unnecessary and confusing. Consider '''Desktop user's guide''' -> '''[[:Category:Utilities (English)]]''' (utilities not used for system administration?) and '''System administration''' -> '''Software''' -> '''[[:Category:Display managers]]''' (display managers not used by desktop users?) Similarly, the [[:Category:Hardware (English)]] and [[:Category:Software]] categories can easily be eliminated. Categories that relate specifically to hardware can be renamed (e.g. '''Hardware''' -> '''[[:Category:Graphics]]''' can become '''Graphics hardware''').
+
 
+
; i18n standardization: Non-English categories should follow the naming scheme ''Title in English (Language)''. See [[Help:i18n]] for details. [[Template:i18n]] should be included on all category pages. Furthermore, all category titles should be appropriately capitalized (Like a Title).
+
  
 
Are there any objections? I will prepare an outline of my imagined category tree shortly.
 
Are there any objections? I will prepare an outline of my imagined category tree shortly.
  
 
-- [[User:Pointone|pointone]] 20:20, 10 May 2011 (EDT)
 
-- [[User:Pointone|pointone]] 20:20, 10 May 2011 (EDT)
:+1 for all. :-) Unfortunately I don't have much time and will have even less. -- [[User:Karol|Karol]] 20:33, 10 May 2011 (EDT)
+
 
::I'm in favour of points 1 and 3 but basically against the systematic flattening of the tree, but it's just a matter of taste, and we are 2 vs 1 here, so I'll just shut up now :D -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] 09:21, 11 May 2011 (EDT)
+
:How about using native category names with redirects to i18n named categories on category pages? --[[User:AlexanderR|AlexanderR]] ([[User talk:AlexanderR|talk]])
:::Phew! That was one mess of work! No longer do we distinguish between article ''topics'' and ''types''. I will propose changes to the tree regarding (2) in detail before committing to anything. -- [[User:Pointone|pointone]] 17:08, 10 June 2011 (EDT)
+
::Actually I was thinking to propose the liberalization of titles for all pages (not only categories), but only '''after''' implementing [[Help_talk:I18n#.22Dummy.22_interlanguage_links_and_deprecation_of_Template:i18n]]. Please, until then let's stick with the current standard: we'll discuss this thing after that, there's already lots of stuff going on in that talk page :) -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 20:30, 8 June 2012 (UTC)
::::Very good job pointone, it has surely been worth the effort! -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] 10:24, 11 June 2011 (EDT)
+
:::Done. Thank you for pointing to [[Help_talk:I18n]]. Good luck with i18n work! --[[User:AlexanderR|AlexanderR]] ([[User talk:AlexanderR|talk]])
  
 
===Capitalization===
 
===Capitalization===
Line 22: Line 16:
  
 
:I can easily solve this one with my bot, although it's not urgent. -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] 16:48, 23 April 2012 (EDT)
 
:I can easily solve this one with my bot, although it's not urgent. -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] 16:48, 23 April 2012 (EDT)
 +
:Maybe not so easily, since I'd need a dictionary of words that should be left lower-case. -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 20:51, 15 June 2012 (UTC)
 +
 +
== "also in" translations ==
 +
Currently only Spanish, <s>French</s>, Italian and Portuguese have a translated "also in" string for categories with more than one parent, all the others are using the English wording. Please request new translations here. -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] 05:59, 12 March 2012 (EDT)
 +
<s>
 +
:Please, add russian translation: '''Также в категории''' or simply '''Также в''' -- [[User:Kycok|Kycok]] ([[User talk:Kycok|talk]]) 11:48, 25 April 2014 (UTC)
 +
 +
::[https://github.com/kynikos/wiki-monkey/commit/82bcc4ab09ce0d2a7146a52f1aa254ea926d7c71 Done], the change will be visible after the next scheduled update of [[Table of Contents (Русский)]], this Sunday. -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 14:05, 25 April 2014 (UTC)
 +
</s>
 +
 +
:::I think it is not such hard to translate "also in" to ask native speakers to send it =). So I decided help you to localise bot.
 +
 +
ar:أيضا في
 +
bg:също в
 +
cs:také v
 +
da:også i
 +
de:auch in
 +
el:επίσης σε
 +
es:también en
 +
he:גם ב
 +
hr:također u
 +
hu:is
 +
id:juga di
 +
it:anche in
 +
ja:また、中
 +
ko:도에
 +
lt:taip pat ir
 +
nl:ook in
 +
pl:również
 +
pt:também em
 +
ru:также в
 +
sk:tiež v
 +
sr:такође у
 +
th:ยังอยู่ใน
 +
uk:також в
 +
zh-CN:?
 +
zh-TW:?
 +
 +
:::I am not sure about chinees languages, but I know still much languages, right =D? Google knows more. If somebody will dislike translation, then I think he/she will request better one. — [[User:Agent0|Agent0]] ([[User_talk:Agent0|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Agent0|contribs]]) 11:25, 17 August 2015 (UTC)
 +
 +
::::Thanks! I agree that this will encourage native speakers to provide the correct translation, I've [https://github.com/kynikos/wiki-monkey/commit/06d94865971713790a2f86ee0e8fa40d793a597f patched] the configuration. — [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 02:11, 22 August 2015 (UTC)
 +
::::: zh-CN:同时还属于. --[[User:Fengchao|Fengchao]] ([[User talk:Fengchao|talk]]) 12:13, 22 August 2015 (UTC)
 +
 +
::::::Thanks Fengchao, is it ok if there's a space between that and the category names?[https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Table_of_Contents_%28%E7%AE%80%E4%BD%93%E4%B8%AD%E6%96%87%29&diff=prev&oldid=393212]  — [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 02:49, 23 August 2015 (UTC)
 +
::::::: Yes, the space is OK and more clear.--[[User:Fengchao|Fengchao]] ([[User talk:Fengchao|talk]]) 09:53, 7 September 2015 (UTC)
  
=="also in" links==
+
:If you are still doing this and still need one, you can add French '''aussi dans'''. Thanks! [[User:Modhaarn|Modhaarn]] ([[User talk:Modhaarn|talk]]) 23:21, 12 February 2016 (UTC)
Do you like seeing the "also in" links next to categories that have more than one parent? -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] 06:56, 1 March 2012 (EST)
+
:Related discussion: [[Help talk:Style#Category pages - tree or otherwise?]] If we return to a tree structure, "also in" links would not exist. -- [[User:Pointone|pointone]] 19:18, 13 March 2012 (EDT)
+
::But maybe in that case displaying them would be even more important, as a means of detecting violations to the rule. -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] 08:27, 14 March 2012 (EDT)
+
:::Quite right. My vote is conditional upon the tree decision, then. If a tree structure is enforced, display it to detect violations. If we allow multiple categories, however, hide it to avoid clutter. -- [[User:Pointone|pointone]] 13:04, 15 March 2012 (EDT)
+
::::Ah kk your position is perfectly clear. However I wouldn't consider the ToC only as a tool for end-users, I think it's also very useful for maintainers, in fact being able to spot multi-parent categories (be them allowed or not) gives a clearer idea of how the articles are structured.
+
::::Some ideas to reduce/avoid clutter:
+
::::*[[:Category:Display managers|Display managers]] (8) <sup>also in [[:Category:Boot process|Boot process]], [[:Category:Daemons and system services|Daemons and system services]]</sup>
+
:::::(I'll probably implement this solution for the next update)
+
::::*[[:Category:Display managers|Display managers]] (8) <sup><span title="also in Boot process, Daemons and system services">*</span></sup>
+
:::::(for this option, place the mouse on the asterisk; we can use another symbol, like <sup>+  ^  #  !</sup>)
+
::::-- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] 07:06, 16 March 2012 (EDT)
+
::::The first idea is implemented currently with &lt;small>. -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] 11:56, 18 March 2012 (EDT)
+
  
===Poll===
+
::Hi, the French wiki is on a separate domain, http://wiki.archlinux.fr , therefore it doesn't use an automatic ToC like the languages on archlinux.org. — [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] ([[User talk:Kynikos|talk]]) 01:30, 13 February 2016 (UTC)
;Display it
+
:''[vote with {{ic|<nowiki>: ~~~~</nowiki>}}]''
+
: [[User:Thestinger|thestinger]] 00:48, 2 March 2012 (EST)
+
: [[User:Skydiver|Skydiver]] 00:51, 2 March 2012 (EST)
+
: [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] 05:09, 2 March 2012 (EST)
+
;Don't display it
+
:''[vote with {{ic|<nowiki>: ~~~~</nowiki>}}]''
+
: [[User:Fengchao|Fengchao]] 20:09, 1 March 2012 (EST)
+
: [[User:Pointone|pointone]] 19:18, 13 March 2012 (EDT)
+
  
=="also in" translations==
+
== Place two lists side by side ==
Currently only Spanish, French, Italian and Portuguese have a translated "also in" string for categories with more than one parent, all the others are using the English wording. Please request new translations here. -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] 05:59, 12 March 2012 (EDT)
+
  
== Flattening of the tree ==
+
What about idea of placing list of categories side by side in non english articles? In that case order of translated titles will be exactly matching with english titles. For non existing translated categories we can just make a blank cell. For example there is no russian category classroom and so numbering is going out of sync with english toc. But with table it will be like this:
=== Change Software category ===
+
{| class="wikitable"
Technically every article is about "software", even those inside "Hardware" (drivers are software): based on what would remain in "Software" we should see if "Software" can be renamed to a more specific title, what do you think? -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] 03:54, 20 April 2012 (EDT)
+
|+ Table of categories
:I think the Software category is almost just as generic as the top-level English category. It could apply to pretty much everything in the wiki, so I don't think there would be any harm in just getting rid of it (but I'm fine with it staying too). [[User:Thestinger|thestinger]] 19:50, 20 April 2012 (EDT)
+
! Number !! English !! Russian
:: Software is too generic and it contains too much contents even after Networking and Development is out which make the category hard to navigate. I plan to split pages mainly about up layer applications into [[:Category:Applications]]. Then the pages left seems to be mainly about "System components" such as boot loader, kernel, deamon, init, package manager, ABS, Desktop environment, window manager and so on. We can check whether they fit well into [[:Category:System Compontents]]. Right now I am starting to move Arch specific topic into [[:Category:About Arch]]. -- [[User:Fengchao|Fengchao]] 00:00, 21 April 2012 (EDT)
+
|-
::: Now Networking and Development become a top category of its own. The new proposal for next step here is:
+
| 1.3 || Arch Wiki (26) || Arch Wiki (Russian) (17)
::: Split pages in [[:Category:Software]] and [[:Category:System administration]] into 2 parts by their difficulty:
+
|-
:::* [[:Category:Applications]]. It is the easy part. People with no Operation system knowledge can read them.
+
| 1.4 || Classroom (14) ||
:::* System Components. Pages there are more harder than Applications. To fully understand these pages, Operation system knowledge is needed. And after learning these pages, the reader will become a nerd of computer :).
+
|-
::: The steps to take:
+
| 1.5 || Events (3) || Events (Russian) (1)
:::# Create a new category [[:Category:Applications]].
+
|}
:::# Move pages fit in [[:Category:Applications]] there.
+
And also it will be visually understandable how many articles are in corresponding english category and how many in translated. [[User:Agent0|Agent0]] ([[User_talk:Agent0|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Agent0|contribs]]) 11:50, 17 August 2015 (UTC)
:::# Move pages left in [[:Category:Software]] into [[:Category:System administration]].
+
:::# Discuss whether [[:Category:System administration]] should changed to other name such as [[:Category:System Components]].
+
::: -- [[User:Fengchao|Fengchao]] 01:34, 25 April 2012 (EDT)
+
::::It's an interesting approach, you can try it, the result will be better than the current situation in any case :) -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] 11:28, 25 April 2012 (EDT)
+
::::Ah, by the way I can handle step 3 with my bot, in case there are many articles left there, just ask me ;) -- [[User:Kynikos|Kynikos]] 04:39, 26 April 2012 (EDT)
+

Latest revision as of 01:31, 13 February 2016

i18n standardization

Non-English categories should follow the naming scheme Title in English (Language). See Help:i18n for details. Template:i18n should be included on all category pages. Furthermore, all category titles should be appropriately capitalized (Like a Title).

Are there any objections? I will prepare an outline of my imagined category tree shortly.

-- pointone 20:20, 10 May 2011 (EDT)

How about using native category names with redirects to i18n named categories on category pages? --AlexanderR (talk)
Actually I was thinking to propose the liberalization of titles for all pages (not only categories), but only after implementing Help_talk:I18n#.22Dummy.22_interlanguage_links_and_deprecation_of_Template:i18n. Please, until then let's stick with the current standard: we'll discuss this thing after that, there's already lots of stuff going on in that talk page :) -- Kynikos (talk) 20:30, 8 June 2012 (UTC)
Done. Thank you for pointing to Help_talk:I18n. Good luck with i18n work! --AlexanderR (talk)

Capitalization

[split from a previous discussion, now closed. -- Kynikos 16:48, 23 April 2012 (EDT)]

As I began sorting and standardizing the Spanish categories, I realized that many English categories have improper capitalization. These issues could probably more efficiently be dealt with simultaneously. --Emiralle 21:46, 10 September 2011 (EDT)

I can easily solve this one with my bot, although it's not urgent. -- Kynikos 16:48, 23 April 2012 (EDT)
Maybe not so easily, since I'd need a dictionary of words that should be left lower-case. -- Kynikos (talk) 20:51, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

"also in" translations

Currently only Spanish, French, Italian and Portuguese have a translated "also in" string for categories with more than one parent, all the others are using the English wording. Please request new translations here. -- Kynikos 05:59, 12 March 2012 (EDT)

Please, add russian translation: Также в категории or simply Также в -- Kycok (talk) 11:48, 25 April 2014 (UTC)
Done, the change will be visible after the next scheduled update of Table of Contents (Русский), this Sunday. -- Kynikos (talk) 14:05, 25 April 2014 (UTC)

I think it is not such hard to translate "also in" to ask native speakers to send it =). So I decided help you to localise bot.
ar:أيضا في
bg:също в
cs:také v
da:også i
de:auch in
el:επίσης σε
es:también en
he:גם ב
hr:također u
hu:is
id:juga di
it:anche in
ja:また、中
ko:도에
lt:taip pat ir
nl:ook in
pl:również
pt:também em
ru:также в
sk:tiež v
sr:такође у
th:ยังอยู่ใน
uk:також в
zh-CN:?
zh-TW:?
I am not sure about chinees languages, but I know still much languages, right =D? Google knows more. If somebody will dislike translation, then I think he/she will request better one. — Agent0 (talk|contribs) 11:25, 17 August 2015 (UTC)
Thanks! I agree that this will encourage native speakers to provide the correct translation, I've patched the configuration. — Kynikos (talk) 02:11, 22 August 2015 (UTC)
zh-CN:同时还属于. --Fengchao (talk) 12:13, 22 August 2015 (UTC)
Thanks Fengchao, is it ok if there's a space between that and the category names?[1]Kynikos (talk) 02:49, 23 August 2015 (UTC)
Yes, the space is OK and more clear.--Fengchao (talk) 09:53, 7 September 2015 (UTC)
If you are still doing this and still need one, you can add French aussi dans. Thanks! Modhaarn (talk) 23:21, 12 February 2016 (UTC)
Hi, the French wiki is on a separate domain, http://wiki.archlinux.fr , therefore it doesn't use an automatic ToC like the languages on archlinux.org. — Kynikos (talk) 01:30, 13 February 2016 (UTC)

Place two lists side by side

What about idea of placing list of categories side by side in non english articles? In that case order of translated titles will be exactly matching with english titles. For non existing translated categories we can just make a blank cell. For example there is no russian category classroom and so numbering is going out of sync with english toc. But with table it will be like this:

Table of categories
Number English Russian
1.3 Arch Wiki (26) Arch Wiki (Russian) (17)
1.4 Classroom (14)
1.5 Events (3) Events (Russian) (1)

And also it will be visually understandable how many articles are in corresponding english category and how many in translated. — Agent0 (talk|contribs) 11:50, 17 August 2015 (UTC)