Talk:Installation guide

Read this first before adding new suggestions

• systemd tools such as hostnamectl, timedatectl and localectl do not work in the installation chroot environment, so please do not propose to use them in the guide unless you can prove that they have been made to work also in that case. See [1], [2], [3] and [4] for some past discussions about this issue.
• Due to the wide variety of available boot loaders, the installation guide refers to Arch boot process#Boot loader instead of making a specific recommendation for the installed system. See [5], [6], [7], [8], [9] for some past discussions on this topic.
• While Category:Installation process lists additional installation methods (e.g. archinstall or systemd-firstboot), the installation guide does not reference them due to their specific nature. Install Arch Linux with accessibility options is an exception. See [10] for past discussion on this topic.

-- The ArchWiki Administrators 22:17, 2 September 2016 (UTC)

Make explicit systemd tools will not work in the chroot

A lot of the installation guide before and after chrooting is composed of "Follow this link and follow instructions on the linked page", e.g. preparing the installation medium, network configuration, initramfs, etc.

Things have settled on not getting the systemd tools in a usable state and instead relying on the manual process (see the note at the top of this page).

However, the fact systemd tools are never expected to work in the chroot is not explicitly communicated on this page. This is apparently confusing to some* users when they encounter the sections on Time and Localization, that link to pages that open with instructions like "To check the current zone defined for the system: $ timedatectl status". This of course fails (because they're in the chroot), but unless they read the "Usage" section of the chroot page they do not know this is expected to fail. This is probably obvious to any experienced user, but the installation guide is targeting new users as well.

* n=1 on IRC, and I understand their thought process.

I would suggest simply replicating a version of the note about *ctl tools not working in the chroot on the main Installation guide page, in the chroot section where it becomes relevant. E.g.

Change root into the new system:

# arch-chroot /mnt

Note Some systemd tools such as hostnamectl, localectl and timedatectl, referenced in linked wiki pages below, cannot be used inside the chroot.

MacGyver (talk) 19:17, 8 January 2025 (UTC)

A link to a guide to do what timedatectl does manually would be great

Managor (talk) 13:47, 10 January 2025 (UTC)

It seems timedatectl set-ntp true enables systemd-timesyncd service if available. If not, it allows ntpd or chronyd to handle the synchronization. This info was hard to come by. Managor (talk) 23:12, 16 January 2025 (UTC)

While I get your notion, the topic is discussed in detail #Reference troubleshooting_page, changing the order of some steps. To sum it, your suggestion fails short of elaborating that an enable does work, while a start does not. Doing so complicates it.

I think what might be useful instead is add a similar note to the end of the crosslinked Help:Reading#Control of systemd units. This way we keep this guide to its structure, but help new readers/users. How about that? --Indigo (talk) 12:40, 12 January 2025 (UTC)

Suggestion - call out that a network manager is needed

A common pain point for new Arch users is that on first boot, they haven't installed/enabled a network manager (e.g. NetworkManager, systemd-networkd) and/or a resolver (systemd-resolved). At the moment, the only reference to this is a single bullet point among seven, but this should really be more prominent - not having a network manager installed is the one single issue you can't resolve after booting into the new system for the first time without having to boot up the ISO again. Everything else, you can fix within the new system, but this you can't, because you can't download a network manager without a network manager already being installed.

The bullet point doesn't make this as clear as it could be, and given Arch is rolling-release the number of people who are going to set-and-forget an Arch box without connecting it to a network ever is minimal if not actually none - and those people are going to have a specific use case and will already know they don't want or need a network manager.

I'd propose that a specific call-out be made as a note underneath the "Install essential packages":

Warning You will not have Internet access after rebooting into your new Arch system if you have not installed, configured and enabled a network manager and any other necessary networking packages first.

This will hopefully reduce support requests and ease things for new users. --BloodNinjasPinwheel (talk) 05:26, 24 July 2025 (UTC)

If booting the ISO after installation is not an option, you can just use an Ethernet connection with systemd-networkd. This does not warrant adding a warning; I suggest thinking about how to rephrase the bullet point instead. -- nl6720 (talk) 13:00, 24 July 2025 (UTC)

Given how common Wi-Fi only devices are at this point, it's not a given that someone will be able to just hook up to an Ethernet connection (e.g. they may be installing on a laptop without any Ethernet port, or even may just not have an Ethernet cable). There's also not really a way of rewording the bullet point to signal this without effectively just putting in the text I wrote anyway.

I understand not wanting to not do too much hand-holding (e.g. if they boot into a terminal rather than a full graphical shell because they never installed or enabled one, that's on them) but it feels like not explicitly mentioning that no network manager = no WiFi is crossing the line between expecting the user to do their due diligence, and being obtuse. Yeah, they can reboot into the ISO and chroot again, but that's a rigmarole we could save them from having to do. --BloodNinjasPinwheel (talk) 07:45, 31 July 2025 (UTC)

I don't think a warning is adequate, we use big scary red text when there's something that is "reasonably difficult [...] or resulting in damage to the system", which rebooting on the ISO and re-chrooting is not.

Installation guide#Install essential packages starts with a Template:Note reminding readers that "No software or configuration (except for /etc/pacman.d/mirrorlist) gets carried over", and lists networking as one of the major needed point later.

I agree with @nl6720 here: finding a way to improve the existing section is better in the long run than fatiguing readers with warnings sprinkled all over. Erus Iluvatar (talk) 07:59, 31 July 2025 (UTC)

I tried something in #Draft.

The first idea was to put the command at the end, so that people don't end up skipping the list of what most would consider necessities.

The second one was to word it as an example command (same as Installation guide#Format the partitions) so that it hints it should not be copied verbatim.

The rest is various attempts at making existing sentences less ambiguous. I'm quite sure it can be improved, but it already feels clearer to me.

--Erus Iluvatar (talk) 17:50, 23 August 2025 (UTC)

Looks ok to me. -- nl6720 (talk) 09:55, 1 September 2025 (UTC)

Done! --Erus Iluvatar (talk) 10:32, 1 September 2025 (UTC)

+1 to this, on my first time installing Arch I managed to entirely miss the line saying "software necessary for networking..." I had to relaunch the ISO and chroot to install a network manager, so needless to say a clearer note about the necessity of a network manager would only make the experience of (all) new users smoother. Today, most devices rely on Wi-Fi so a network manager is "necessary" and shouldn't just be mentioned with wording like "consider installing." Outish (talk) 18:51, 15 September 2025 (UTC)

Thanks for chiming in. As you can see from the exchanges above, the consensus to revise the guide for better clarity has been implemented. The discussion is closed since the agreed-upon changes were made, but we'll be monitoring the guide's effectiveness. Erus Iluvatar (talk) 16:50, 16 September 2025 (UTC)

Replace Region/City with Area/Location

I replaced Zone/SubZone with Area/Location in System time#Time zone so that it uses the terms from https://data.iana.org/time-zones/theory.html#naming.

I think Installation guide#Time should be changed to match.

I'd also like add an explanation for the pseudo-variables (copied from the aforementioned website):

Where Area is a continent or ocean, and Location is a specific location within the area. North and South America share the same area—America.[11]

But I'm not sure if it better belongs in System time#Time zone or Installation guide#Time. Thoughts?

-- nl6720 (talk) 08:09, 13 September 2025 (UTC)

I agree with that change. IMO the names are self-explanatory and the explanation is a better fit for the dedicated page instead of this guide. Erus Iluvatar (talk) 08:13, 13 September 2025 (UTC)