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Latest comment: 7 June 2018 by Larivact in topic UIM -- how to set up with x language

UIM -- how to set up with x language

[Moved from ArchWiki:Requests#UIM -- how to set up with x language -- Kynikos (talk) 12:44, 27 November 2014 (UTC)]Reply

[Moved from Talk:Input Japanese using uim#UIM -- how to set up with x language -- Larivact (talk) 02:25, 7 June 2018 (UTC)]Reply

See also Talk:UIM#Restructure UIM article--Blowback (talk) 16:34, 27 November 2014 (UTC)Reply

There is already a page on how to set up UIM with Japanese input. The document 'UIM' currently redirects there. However, UIM, like ibus or scim, is capable of handling many languages. I'm willing to write up how to set up Korean input with UIM, for instance. I think it'd be more appropriate if UIM could become a separate article with links to how to set it up with various languages, like how the other input method frameworks are done here on the arch wiki.--Isaac914

Is it very different to set up different languages than Japanese? Because you could instead just move this page to UIM (I can delete the redirect for you so you can move it there) and rewrite all the content that applies in general, and explain the settings for the specific languages where appropriate, without the need to create a separate article for each one. -- Kynikos (talk) 12:48, 27 November 2014 (UTC)Reply
I think that's a better idea. I'll begin writing up a possible rewrite. The japanese-specific stuff would be demoted down to a single section or so. I'll also add a korean secion. --Isaac914
Actually, most of explanation about Input Methods (i.e. language specific stuff) aren't depend on IM framework ({unrelated to, applicable for other} IM frameworks) so each language specific articles should be separated from IM framework's in the first place. IMHO, pages should be consisted of uim which describes about general topic of uim, and Input Japanese/Input Korean (for example) which describe about language specific topics. (When I became an Arch user, this page is already existent so I have been used as is...)--Blowback (talk) 08:46, 28 November 2014 (UTC)Reply
I've been working on restructuring the main UIM article(see User:Isaac914/uim to see how far I've gotten), and it's becoming very apparent that Setting up Japanese in UIM and Setting up Korean in UIM need to be separate pages. It's not relevant information to people who don't want to use korean/japanese, and they take up too much space. Isaac914 (talk) 10:20, 28 November 2014 (UTC)Reply
edit: also, I think it's a good idea to set up general guides on how to input korean/japanese. For now, I'm splitting off the japanese uim section in the user page that I've been working on. Isaac914 (talk) 10:22, 28 November 2014 (UTC)Reply
Indigo's made a good point -- we want to reach a general agreement on how to format the new UIM article, and how to treat the content specific to each language. Currently, my thoughts are that we could create a completely rewritten UIM main page, similar to the ibus page. The large sections would be 1.Installation, 2. General Configuration, 3. Tips and Tricks, 4. Troubleshooting, and create sub pages for languages that we have more detailed information for(e.g. Japanese and Korean). However, the current Input Japanese using uim page does contain a lot of content that concerns general configuration. Should we rewrite those sections to ensure a clean edit history?
Also, Blowback's suggestion that we set up separate pages for setting up Korean/Japanese input in general is an interesting one. I'd certainly be willing to write up the korean page. Such pages would be very useful for CJK users in general. What does everyone else think? --Isaac914 (talk) 11:04, 28 November 2014 (UTC)Reply
I think you made a good start for a general uim article at User:Isaac914/uim already! Also User:Isaac914/uim#Select Input Methods in UIM as the start to link to the language specific content seems good to me (other opinions?), as well as the structure you propose above.
Yes, I think it would be feasible to edit the current Japanese article in place and this is definetely the preferred way for it. Once the general uim article is ready, the structure would need to be re-worked though. Anyone have objections?
Certainly either separate pages or subpages for Korean/Japanese would be workable. In any case it would be great, if the structure (table of content sections) of Korean and Japanese content pages is similar. I cannot oversee whether that is workable though, the Japanese page has a lot of very specific content that might not be applicable for a Korean version? What would be a good TOC for the language pages? --Indigo (talk) 11:41, 28 November 2014 (UTC)Reply
Isaac914, there are 3 suggestions. 1) Exact name is uim (lowercase), not UIM. 2) Page Setting up XXXX Input should be language-centric (input methods-centric); it should handle all IM frameworks if necessary (do you intend to write Input in ibus and Input in fcitx?). 3) IMHO, input language pages should handle all about inputting the languages, not only setting up (also not only inputting??).--Blowback (talk) 14:36, 28 November 2014 (UTC)Reply
Blowback, I've fixed the capitalization issue now. I've also began working on a page covering Korean input setup in general. Check User:Isaac914/Setting up Korean Input. I've tried to set up a general structure that could be reused for pages that cover other languages as well, as Indigo suggested we should. What do you guys think of the new Korea Input article? Also, I'm worried that the configuration section may repeat a lot of information provided on the articles for each input method framework.Isaac914 (talk) 05:07, 29 November 2014 (UTC)Reply
For my part I think the structure you chose for the Korean article is suitable. I see what you mean with repetitive information in the configuration section. The main aim of the configuration section should be to make it easier for the reader to find the relevant info for Korean input, be it with ibus/scim or the other methods. So it should provide information on install and configuration steps that are diverting from the steps described in the (for example) Ibus article itself and make it easier to select the right packages for the language. To stay with the example: for your ibus-hangul method all I would add is the crosslink to Ibus#Initial setup and that's it.
We cannot avoid some repetition because the language articles are summarizing from another focus than the frameworks articles. By combining "install" and "configuration" steps in one section, you limit the extent of the repetition already.
(By the way I now see as well that the languages should be on separate page, as Blowback initially suggested, rather than uim subpages. I reckon I pictured that wrong before because the Japanese article is so focussed on uim)
--Indigo (talk) 22:33, 29 November 2014 (UTC)Reply
Isaac914, my suggestion meant that page name the "Setting up Korean Input" might induce it restrict about setting up (for other users/editors); page name should be more general, IMHO:)--Blowback (talk) 17:20, 30 November 2014 (UTC)Reply
Blowback, I'm not sure if I quite understand your point. How would the page title be more general? Could you give me a suggestion?Isaac914 (talk) 03:48, 1 December 2014 (UTC)Reply
Although I don't have best idea, simply Input Korean is more general as an example.--Blowback (talk) 16:24, 2 December 2014 (UTC)Reply
As "input methods" is a general term with the frameworks, how about Input methods for Korean or Setting up Korean input methods? (likewise for Japanese then). --Indigo (talk) 18:42, 2 December 2014 (UTC)Reply
I see. When the document is completely ready to be deployed, I'll rename it to one of the above titles. Isaac914 (talk) 12:59, 3 December 2014 (UTC)Reply
The Korean input page is ready for deployment. User:Isaac914/Korean Input. The new uim page should also be ready to go once I add the emacs bit back in, and make a little bit of changes to the phrasing to accomodate for the new korean/(potential) japanese page. I'll be moving the Korean Input page up to the main wiki soon, and adding a korean translation. Isaac914 (talk) 15:21, 4 December 2014 (UTC)Reply
Great work, Isaac914. A couple of remarks: (1) Was there a reason you now chose to move it to Korean Input contrary to the above discussed? (2) The emacs section is very focussed on the specific Japanese content in the examples. We must make sure the instructions are still easy to follow and work for Japanese when added to a generalized uim page. Maybe it is better to keep the Japanese section in place and crosslink it from the uim page (and do the same from your new Korean page). Have a look what you think is best for it. If you move it to the uim page, please do it per subsection so it is easier to follow. (3) A Korean translation would of course be particularly useful. I just want to suggest you wait a bit with it, until there is some feedback on the new page. I will look over it as well in the next days and state here when done. --Indigo (talk) 12:05, 5 December 2014 (UTC)Reply
thanks, indigo. I named the page Korean Input was mostly because I felt it was a general title, and it felt concise. Input Korean feels incomplete to me. Mostly, personal preference. I'll wait a bit before making further edits to the uim page and the new Korean Input page.Isaac914 (talk) 13:06, 5 December 2014 (UTC)Reply
I went through your article now. See Kynikos' suggestion below for moving it under Internationalization, we did not think of that one before! --Indigo (talk) 21:55, 5 December 2014 (UTC)Reply
I was wondering, wouldn't it be better to write these "Language input" articles as subpages of Internationalization? For example Internationalization/Korean, Internationalization/Japanese and so on? Otherwise, according to Help:Style#Title, Korean Input should be Korean input. -- Kynikos (talk) 15:31, 5 December 2014 (UTC)Reply
For now, I moved the page over to Korean input. However, moving it as a subpage to internationalization sounds like a good idea. The topics definitely seem to align. Does everyone else agree?Isaac914 (talk) 11:54, 7 December 2014 (UTC)Reply
I agree.--Blowback (talk) 16:46, 7 December 2014 (UTC)Reply
+1 as well.
One question though: Internationalization has sections for the locale and keyboard layout. You cover the latter in the Korean_input#Configuration section, for some methods with a remark, for others without (e.g. on keyboard layouts). It is fine since the article introduction states that configuration on console is not included, but I wonder if it makes sense to reference to the TOC of Internationalization so that it is clear to the reader which steps of the general article have to be followed first (e.g. what kind of locale do you choose for Korea? (@Blowback: or Japan?)), before installing the respective input method packages. What do you think? --Indigo (talk) 18:27, 7 December 2014 (UTC)Reply
Since everyone seems to agree to move it as a subpage, I'll add the appropriate sections and content to approximately follow the Internationalization document. Hopefully, this will serve as kind of a reference to documents regarding other languages. Isaac914 (talk) 11:25, 8 December 2014 (UTC)Reply